Why Remove The Dinks? 2024

5 Dollar Fishing Game reply :

I hear people a lot say that in order to have big bass more prominent in a pond, you should remove the dinks. Why is this???

Starchalopakis reply :

The dinks are competing with the bigger fish for food, take out the competition and you have more food for the bigger fish?

Dwight Hottle reply :

When a pond or small water is over populated causing stunted bass it becomes necessary to remove all bass under 15 " until a balance is achieved. Most small waters are over populated from my experience.

the reel ess reply :

If you don't they'll stay dinks. Some of those are older fish that can't get the nutrition to grow.

5 Dollar Fishing Game reply :

Makes sense to me. So should the blue gills come out too?

Alonerankin2 reply :

On 5/23/2015 at 9:48 AM, 5 Dollar Fishing Game said:
Makes sense to me. So should the blue gills come out too?

It never hurts to remove gills & deposit in a cast iron skillet!

einscodek reply :

On 5/23/2015 at 8:09 AM, 5 Dollar Fishing Game said:
I hear people a lot say that in order to have big bass more prominent in a pond, you should remove the dinks. Why is this???

Yea I hear this alot too and it sure sounds like it makes sense but I'm curious who came up with this idea cause alot of things these days is just made up hogwash and spreads like wildfire.. sure it sounds logical but wheres the research.

I think maybe Pondboss had an article regarding this once but how applicable to a larger body of water?

Careful playing God you may not get what you intend.. ie a lake with a runaway bluegill population just cause one doesnt know how to catch the 5 pounders.

Crappiebasser reply :

On 5/23/2015 at 10:34 AM, einscodek said:

Yea I hear this alot too and it sure sounds like it makes sense but I'm curious who came up with this idea cause alot of things these days is just made up hogwash and spreads like wildfire.. sure it sounds logical but wheres the research.

I think maybe Pondboss had an article regarding this once but how applicable to a larger body of water?

Careful playing God you may not get what you intend.. ie a lake with a runaway bluegill population just cause one doesnt know how to catch the 5 pounders.

Here's a link to report on the effects of removing the slot limit on spotted bass from the lake I live on. I can tell you first hand the average size has gone up noticeably since they started allowing people to keep 12-16" spots.

http://www.outdooralabama.com/sites/default/files/fishing/freshwater/where/reservoirs/harris/harris.pdf

topwaterrob reply :

What I've been told is that younger (dinks) fish have a voracious appetite and will eat basically like teenagers keeping some of the bigger fish from the forage. Now in some cases those same dinks are the forage for really big fish sooo. who knows

K_Mac reply :

einscodek the research is very clear that selective harvest of smaller bass is a proven method of managing for larger fish. When combined with slot limits all the better.

Evintos228 reply :

http://www.noble.org/ag/wildlife/stunted-bass-fishery/

http://text.lsuagcenter.com/en/crops_livestock/aquaculture/recreational_ponds/Stocking_Managing_Fish_Populations/Managing_Bass_and_Bream_Populations/Managing+Pond+Bass+and+Bream+Populations.htm

http://msucares.com/wildfish/fisheries/farmpond/management/trophy_bass.html

https://www.sdstate.edu/nrm/outreach/pond/upload/Stocking-Scenarios-for-Smallmouth-Bass-Jul-Aug-2004.pdf

http://www.americansportfish.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=51&Itemid=78

http://aqua.ucdavis.edu/DatabaseRoot/pdf/ASAQ-C14.PDF

There's hundreds if not thousands of studies and research by Universities, fishery biologists, etc. about pond management. In general, fisheries management applies to both large bodies of water (example would be oceans) as well as smaller private ponds. More forage = bigger fish or More forage = more fish.

Example 1. A family of 5 eating enough food for a family of 10. There will be 5 overweight people.
Exampe 2. A family of 10 eating food for a family of 5. Enough to stay alive but 10 very underfed people.
Example 3. A family of 10 eating enough food for a family of 10. 10 average sized people.

Slot limits are a fantastic option for creating a healthy population of fish as well as promotes trophy size fish.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Evintos228

einscodek reply :

If the research is so clear why do states like mine (NJ) who are "managing" lunker lakes by upping the size limits from 12" up to 15" as keeper?

I would think this would mean all the lil fish get to stay. Maybe they dont know what their doing.. or maybe they do. Supposedly in Assinpink Lake the number of 5 pounders caught has doubled.

Thanks for providing the research links btw.

"To address this issue, bluegill may need to be stocked (if absent), low fertility of an impoundment may need to be addressed, or adequate numbers of fish from the stunted size need to be removed. Unfortunately, there is not one correct answer"

The above excerpt doesnt sound so clear cut to me..

Alonerankin2 reply :

http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/education/documents/Trophy_Bass_Production.pdf

http://www.caes.uga.edu/extension/habersham/anr/documents/txpondman.pdf

Texas study's also discuss bluegill and pluses & minus of those in ponds..

Evintos228 reply :

On 5/23/2015 at 11:31 AM, einscodek said:

If the research is so clear why do states like mine (NJ) who are "managing" lunker lakes by upping the size limits from 12" up to 15" as keeper?

I would think this would mean all the lil fish get to stay. Maybe they dont know what their doing.. or maybe they do. Supposedly in Assinpink Lake the number of 5 pounders caught has doubled.

Thanks for providing the research links btw.

"To address this issue, bluegill may need to be stocked (if absent), low fertility of an impoundment may need to be addressed, or adequate numbers of fish from the stunted size need to be removed. Unfortunately, there is not one correct answer"

The above excerpt doesnt sound so clear cut to me..

It depends on the body of water. Smaller bodies of water with limited public access would require more harvest of predator fish to prevent overpopulation and stunting as well as preventing a decimation of forage populations. Larger bodies of water typically doesn't have issues with stunted fish nor lack of forage but there are exceptions (e.g. invasive species impacting the Great Lakes). I took a look at the NJ freshwater creel and size regulations (http://www.eregulations.com/newjersey/fishing/freshwater/size-season-creel-limits/) and noticed a catch and release season.

My guesses are that either NJ decided that a high population (high catch ratio) of decent (medium) sized bass is preferred over a smaller population of larger sized bass (lower catch ratio)

the amount of predator fish (bass, walleye, pike, muskies, etc.) has begun to impact forage and this is a preventative measure.

With the catch and release season, I'm leaning more towards the latter than former.

With enough forage and space, no harvest is needed to ensure a large population of small, medium and large fish. Of course, New Jersey Division of Fish & Wildlife may have decided new regulations on a whim without research/data. Illinois for example had an absolutely idiotic fishing regulation regarding Yellow Perch (closed season in July after Perch spawned but allowed perch harvest during the spawn ) that finally changed this year http://www.dnr.illinois.gov/news/Pages/IDNRAnnouncesLakeMichiganYellowPerchFishingOpeninJuly.aspx

It depends on management goals - big trophy fish, large population of fish (usually for consistent harvest for consumption), a balanced approach to both? In a pond with the goal of huge bass, harvesting smaller bass is the cheapest way to go but definitely not the only option. You can use pond fish feeders (expensive), create habitat or areas that promote the survival and reproduction of more baitfish (could be expensive), etc.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Evintos228

BASSPATROL247 reply :

There are sooooo many other factors that play into it.. no two bodys of water are the same big or small. What works on one may not work on another....

FishChaser1 reply :

Sorry, anyone who claims this doesn't really know what they're talking about. If a population reaches above its carrying capacity (max. number of individuals of a species that an environment can support), then the population will shrink back down until it gets back below it or evens out around the carrying capacity. This is logical; there's a limit to how many bass can be supported. But throwing out dinks would only work assuming A) dinks can outcompete large bass for food, which is unlikely, and B)the population is above its carrying capacity, which can only happen for very short periods of time so that is again unlikely.

the reel ess reply :

I fish primarily 3 ponds. One is almost completely stunted. Another is mostly stunted and there are a very few bass over 5 lb. Another produces some trophies, especially for a big pond. This one has big gold shiners. Enough food for the bass population.

The first two have very little harvest and very few people using it. The third has at least three people keeping as many small bass in the 3/4-3 lb slot as possible.

RoLo reply :

On 5/23/2015 at 10:32 PM, FishChaser1 said:
If a population reaches above its carrying capacity (max. number of individuals of a species that an environment can support), then the population will shrink back down until it gets back below it or evens out around the carrying capacity.

Academically, the biomass cannot surpass the carrying capacity (it's a self-fulfilling prophesy).

In any case, 'over-population' is not the issue, the issue is 'Age Composition'.

Quote
But throwing out dinks would only work assuming A) dinks can outcompete large bass for food, which is unlikely

On the contrary, young, sleek & nimble bass present fierce competition for fat, old bass.

It's a well-documented fact of lake management, you either manage a lake for 'fish density' or 'trophy-class fish',

but cannot have it both ways.

Roger

FishChaser1 reply :

Actually the carry capacity can be surpassed, it just quickly goes back down it. Also, why would the bass need to compete between each other if they aren't at their carrying capacity?

RoLo reply :

On 5/23/2015 at 10:54 PM, FishChaser1 said:
Why would the bass need to compete between each other if they aren't at their carrying capacity?

Healthy lakes never approach their carrying capacity.

Nevertheless, competition is omnipresent, even in a horn of plenty.

In order to produce a trophy bass, competition for food must be sharply minimized

to assure that intake far surpasses combustion.

Roger

Montanaro reply :

On 5/23/2015 at 10:32 PM, FishChaser1 said:
Sorry, anyone who claims this doesn't really know what they're talking about. If a population reaches above its carrying capacity (max. number of individuals of a species that an environment can support), then the population will shrink back down until it gets back below it or evens out around the carrying capacity. This is logical; there's a limit to how many bass can be supported. But throwing out dinks would only work assuming A) dinks can outcompete large bass for food, which is unlikely, and B)the population is above its carrying capacity, which can only happen for very short periods of time so that is again unlikely.

It's not about small bass out competing large bass, it's about small bass competing with small bass which leads to very few of them growing.

Take the small bass out and the large bluegills. Resulting in a bunch of small bluegills to feed the growing bass population. Those small bass can't swallow big bluegill and those size gills compete with them for food. As bass grow into 3 or 4 pound range you can relax the gill harvest to give the bass bigger forage.

WRB reply :

On 5/23/2015 at 8:09 AM, 5 Dollar Fishing Game said:
I hear people a lot say that in order to have big bass more prominent in a pond, you should remove the dinks. Why is this???

Well did you read all the links provided?

As you can tell there isn't a one size fits all answer to your question.

Fisheries management, with the exception of Texas, are interested in legal size fish caught per man hour of fishing. Texas has a successful trophy bass management program, their goal is improving numbers of trophy size bass caught per year. Two very different management goals.

Most small lakes or larger size ponds, over 10 acres, stay balanced without any management if the prey to predator ratio stays intact. The wild card is man. People tend to mess things by adding unwanted fish to the population, removing the top predators and pollute the water supply.

Ask yourself this, would you want to fish a virgin unmanaged small lake or pond knowing there are bass in it or fish a public managed bass lake or pond?

Tom

the reel ess reply :

There's a thread on this board called "How do I catch bigger bass?" This is how. If you don't control the population, it's a lot harder to catch big ones when all there are are small ones.

jiggerpole reply :

A lot of these comments are spot on.

I manage 9 lakes for our community and some of the things that I have learned is:

Not all lakes are the same. / Each lake has a fertility rate and potential that is different and unique. / You can learn to manage a lake for what it is or you can manipulate it in many ways to achieve your goals. / Most people look at a lake from the bass point of view that if it stays in the water it will get bigger with age. (True if the food is available) More people need to look at a lake from a food point of view. How do I take care of the food? Because the food will take care of everything else.

Things to look for: Water quality: (PH and Acidic Buffering Ability) Fertility: (Bloom in a nut shell) Oxygen Levels: (Springs & Feeder Creeks, Algae & Plant Life, Currents and Wind or Aerators.) Habitat: ( Cover and or Structure for baitfish, and other aquatic life and predator fish.) Cary Capacity: ( The Competition for food and habitat for select species of desirable fish in pounds per surface acre.) Growing Season: ( The time frame for which a lake is capable of providing optimum conditions for growth due to all factors involved.) All this, lead to Management Practices: ( Selective Harvest of Fish.)

I may have missed some things due to the fact that it can be made simple or complicated depending on variables.

I am glad to see more people getting involved, individually at spreading the word on fish management practices. I believe it will make you a better fisherman as well. (JMHO)

greentrout reply :

Bass Resource:http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/selective_harvest_bass.html

BassObsessed reply :

If there ever was a dictionary sample of a stunted pond it would probably be one of the private ponds I fish . 10 acres , depths up to 28ft and clear enough to see the bottom in 12fow is some areas. The pond was supposedly established with fish in the 80's and has thousands of bass but the biggest ones Iv'e caught in 10 years of fishing it is about 2lbs. Most bass are in the 1lb range. Catch rates are very high and some of the bluegill accidentally caught on crankbaits were 2lbs. It needs a major reduction in smaller bass but it's not my place to do it.

the reel ess reply :

On 5/24/2015 at 10:33 PM, BassObsessed said:
If there ever was a dictionary sample of a stunted pond it would probably be one of the private ponds I fish . 10 acres , depths up to 28ft and clear enough to see the bottom in 12fow is some areas. The pond was supposedly established with fish in the 80's and has thousands of bass but the biggest ones Iv'e caught in 10 years of fishing it is about 2lbs. Most bass are in the 1lb range. Catch rates are very high and some of the bluegill accidentally caught on crankbaits were 2lbs. It needs a major reduction in smaller bass but it's not my place to do it.

I fish a similar pond. I've caught one over 6 lbs and tha next largest has been 2 lbs. I like the Roadrunner in 1/8 oz and small Jointed Rapala to catch both small bass and large bream. Kills two birds with one stone. But you need help catching and keeping fish to really make a dent in the populations. Or you could fish every day of the week a couple hours.

einscodek reply :

On 5/23/2015 at 12:37 PM, Evintos228 said:

It depends on the body of water. Smaller bodies of water with limited public access would require more harvest of predator fish to prevent overpopulation and stunting as well as preventing a decimation of forage populations. Larger bodies of water typically doesn't have issues with stunted fish nor lack of forage but there are exceptions (e.g. invasive species impacting the Great Lakes). I took a look at the NJ freshwater creel and size regulations (http://www.eregulations.com/newjersey/fishing/freshwater/size-season-creel-limits/) and noticed a catch and release season.

My guesses are that either NJ decided that a high population (high catch ratio) of decent (medium) sized bass is preferred over a smaller population of larger sized bass (lower catch ratio)

OR

the amount of predator fish (bass, walleye, pike, muskies, etc.) has begun to impact forage and this is a preventative measure.

With the catch and release season, I'm leaning more towards the latter than former.

With enough forage and space, no harvest is needed to ensure a large population of small, medium and large fish. Of course, New Jersey Division of Fish & Wildlife may have decided new regulations on a whim without research/data. Illinois for example had an absolutely idiotic fishing regulation regarding Yellow Perch (closed season in July after Perch spawned but allowed perch harvest during the spawn ) that finally changed this year http://www.dnr.illinois.gov/news/Pages/IDNRAnnouncesLakeMichiganYellowPerchFishingOpeninJuly.aspx

It depends on management goals - big trophy fish, large population of fish (usually for consistent harvest for consumption), a balanced approach to both? In a pond with the goal of huge bass, harvesting smaller bass is the cheapest way to go but definitely not the only option. You can use pond fish feeders (expensive), create habitat or areas that promote the survival and reproduction of more baitfish (could be expensive), etc.

Actuall as part of the NJ lunker lakes program they are trying to increase the populations of 5lb+ fish so they are after prize big fish.

Their change was to up the keeper limit to 15" on the lunker lakes.

Raul reply :

Dink bass don´t compete with bigger bass for food, THEY ARE BIGGER BASS FOOD.

Dink bass compete with dink bass for food, the problem is that forage base can´t produce enough food for the population of dink bass to feed and grow so dink bass remain dink bass per secula seculorum.

Solution: Dear Mr Dink Bass meet Mrs Frying pan.

RoLo reply :

On 5/25/2015 at 2:33 AM, Raul said:

Dink bass don´t compete with bigger bass for food, THEY ARE BIGGER BASS FOOD.

Dink bass compete with dink bass for food, the problem is that forage base can´t produce enough food for the population of dink bass to feed and grow so dink bass remain dink bass per secula seculorum.

Solution: Dear Mr Dink Bass meet Mrs Frying pan.

That is true, but to a fault.

The forage base of bass fry and fingerlings consists mainly of invertebrates (insects, larvae, aquatic worms~).

On the other hand, the difference in forage between dinks and toads is not as clearly defined. For instance,

we've all caught big bass on tiny lures, and we've all caught tiny bass on big lures (KVD landed an 11+ on a 4" fry worm)

Differently put, big bass eat small meals, and small bass eat large meals....provided it fits in their maw

Roger

Evintos228 reply :

On 5/25/2015 at 2:21 AM, einscodek said:

Actuall as part of the NJ lunker lakes program they are trying to increase the populations of 5lb+ fish so they are after prize big fish.

Their change was to up the keeper limit to 15" on the lunker lakes.

It will be interesting to see what kind of results they will get. Without knowing the data of these lakes (electro-fishing surveys, harvest numbers, juvenile survival rates etc.) it'd be tough to guess why NJ decided to inrease the limit to 15" minimum.

Another area of research that is loosely related to biomass and carrying capacity of ponds is aquaculture (fish farming).

Couple of pics found online.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Evintos228

bigbill reply :

Bass eat gills. Eat crappie they taste better.

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