Whats The Water Temp When The Bass Start To Spawn? 2024

THE BASS WHISPERER reply :

i live in the south , and i hoping the cold winter is over. what does the water temp have to be around when the bass start to spawn?

thank you all.

Sam reply :

60's.

65 and the should be on their beds.

Catt reply :

For those who need a number I would say 60

WIGuide reply :

55-58 they should be moving up, and then they'll start spawning in the mid 60's generally. The length of day and moon phase seem to have more of an effect on when they actually spawn though. You want to keep in mind too, that not all bass spawn at exactly the same time. The spawn could last from anywhere from a few days, to a few weeks.

A-Jay reply :

Author ~ Dan Ashe

First let’s start with the basics. Nearly everyone has seen largemouth bass in an area that has been swept clean near the shoreline during the spring. These swept areas are bass nests or beds. Spawning takes place when the water temperature reaches 60-75o F. The male constructs the bed and courts a female to spawn, where he then releases his sperm to fertilize the eggs. Fertilized largemouth bass eggs are yellow to orange in color. The male stands guard over the eggs to protect them from predation and continually fans the water to keep water moving over the eggs to keep silt from building up on top of them, while the female leaves once spawning is complete. Largemouth bass sexual maturity is influenced by size more than age, with most bass reaching sexual maturity with the ability to spawn at around ten inches. The largemouth bass in our lakes usually attain this size at about age two. Largemouth bass beds have been reported to contain anywhere from 5,000 to 45,000 eggs with the differences in number dependent on the size and condition of the spawned female. The time it takes largemouth bass eggs to hatch is highly influenced by water temperature with hatch time at 65o F being about 2 ½ days.

Life for young largemouth bass is hard with very few surviving their first year. One paper I have found cited that only two tenths of one percent of young bass made it past their first year in an Alabama lake. There are several factors that are considered important in determining survival, most notably time of spawning, temperature, predation, and available forage and habitat.

Generally speaking, larger bass spawn earlier than smaller bass. This characteristic is important to young bass survival. Fish that hatch sooner have longer to feed and grow before winter sets in and thus a greater chance of over winter survival. There is some debate as to whether bass populations with a large number of big fish have a distinct advantage to maintain a more constant and stable population in terms of steady recruitment. The down side of having an earlier spawning time is that these fish are more vulnerable to extreme temperature fluctuations than those that are spawned later when the likelihood of a spring freeze is less likely. Therefore, the debate goes on. I guess it all depends on what year you want to look at.

Temperature plays the most significant role in early survival of bass, where it can influence entire year classes of bass. As stated earlier temperature determines how long it takes for eggs to hatch, the longer it takes eggs to hatch the likelihood of predation of those eggs increases. In addition, once bass hatch they are not mobile, they are still on the bottom of the bed feeding off a yolk sac. Again, the longer a fish is immobile the chances of predation increases significantly. Water temperature determines how long it takes for the bass larvae to develop and become mobile. At 70o F bass are able to swim in about 10 days after hatch, at colder temperatures this time is significantly longer.

Once the bass fry become free swimming they must begin to feed within days or they will die. Bass fry initially feed on zooplankton (microscopic animals) and the amount of zooplankton is dependant on phytoplankton (microscopic plants). Lakes that are turbid, acidic, etc., generally are not productive in terms of plankton production, with low fish recruitment due to inadequate forage for young fish. Bass fry are voracious feeders needing to feed several times a day. Food passes through their stomachs every few hours. Over time as the bass grow they will shift to a fish diet. It is imperative that ample forage fish be available for both the larger and younger bass. Bass will always eat one another, but if there are other prey species available the amount of cannibalism will be less.

A-Jay

WRB reply :

In SoCal the spawn started a few weeks ago in some coastal lakes, the inland lakes any time.

You go online at look at Florida Largemouth Bass Spawn, University of Florida, to determine a unbiased water temp. The warming water temps plus stable warm weather conditions: 62-67 degrees is optimal.

Tom

Catt reply :

I seen em spawn in the lower 50s to lower 70s & bank shallow out to 18'.

WRB reply :

LMB can spawn whenever they choose, doesn't mean the eggs will hatch or the fry will servive.

The Gaussian curve or bell curve is often used to show percentages, the bottom of the curve represents about 10% and the end of the about 10%, the middle of the curve represents the majority. LMB that spawn in water colder than 60 degrees are in the beginning of the curve, over 70 degrees the end of the curve, the majority are in the mid 60's.

The reason is it takes longer to hatch eggs in cold water, lower survival rate, over 70 degrees the eggs hatch within a few days, however the eggs and fry have a larger population of small and large predator fish around the nest site that reduces the survival rate. Nothing happens in nature by mistake very long.

There will be early birds and later gators, the majority or 80% tend to represent the average behavior.

I caught a LMB in Jan in about 25' when the surface water was in the low 50's, big female was losing her eggs ripe and ready to spawn, she was an anomaly. Lots of variables, all we can do suggest when the majority wil spawn.

Tom

Catt reply :

Speculation: The forming of a theory or conjecture without any firm evidence.

Y'all are still giving surface temperatures, what is the temperature at the depth of the eggs?

WRB reply :

Catch the bass and put a digital thermometer in it's throat. I did this for about 10 years to determined spawning temps. How many anglers are going to do that today? Everyone has surface temp gauges, few know how to locate warm deep water like a spring using sonar.

Are the bass spawning at TB?

Tom

hoosierbass07 reply :

On 3/11/2015 at 11:53 AM, WRB said:
Catch the bass and put a digital thermometer in it's throat. I did this for about 10 years to determined spawning temps.

Would a laser temperature gun work too?

Catt reply :

On 3/11/2015 at 11:53 AM, WRB said:

Catch the bass and put a digital thermometer in it's throat. I did this for about 10 years to determined spawning temps. How many anglers are going to do that today? Everyone has surface temp gauges, few know how to locate warm deep water like a spring using sonar.

Are the bass spawning at TB?

Tom

Please publish this documented research; the bass fishing world needs to know.

I have not read any research linked to this site that has documented this procedure, most advocate avoiding catching bass off the nest proclaiming it would destroy the spawn.

At 190,000 squire surface acres I'm sure there is a bass or to spawning on Toledo Bend.

WRB reply :

On 3/11/2015 at 1:38 PM, hoosierbass07 said:
Would a laser temperature gun work too?

Should work, a lot easier then using a temp probe.

Tom

RoLo reply :

The temperature of water has only to be warm enough to incubate the eggs,

but beyond that there are no specific temperature constraints. For northern-strain bass,

the generally accepted minimum incubation temperature is 60 deg F. (notice that 60 is a nice round imprecise number)

Here's the deal; water temperatures do not rise and fall uniformly, but seesaw back-and-forth like the S&P 500 Index.
Not to worry, reproductive hormones are triggered by the increasing angle of sunlight (i.e. Photoperiod),

which provides a stable and reliable metric that does in fact move in a straight line.

Water temperatures hinge on photoperiod, so they provide a coincident but imprecise criterion.

In Florida for instance, it's possible to find water temperatures in the 80s 'before' major spawning has begun.

Roger

bighed reply :

males on the bed at 58 or so and females soon after

Paul Roberts reply :

On 3/11/2015 at 11:44 PM, RoLo said:

The temperature of water has only to be warm enough to incubate the eggs,

but beyond that there are no specific temperature constraints. For northern-strain bass,

the generally accepted minimum incubation temperature is 60 deg F. (notice that 60 is a nice round imprecise number)

Here's the deal; water temperatures do not rise and fall uniformly, but seesaw back-and-forth like the S&P 500 Index.

Not to worry, reproductive hormones are triggered by the increasing angle of sunlight (i.e. Photoperiod),

which provides a stable and reliable metric that does in fact move in a straight line.

Water temperatures hinge on photoperiod, so they provide a coincident but imprecise criterion.

In Florida for instance, it's possible to find water temperatures in the 80s 'before' major spawning has begun.

Roger

I beg to differ, Roger. If that were so then all lakes would initiate (good metric) spawning at the same time. But they don't. Water volume plays a big role -and offers a good example- the reason being that large volumes take longer to heat. Small ponds go first, then larger ones, on up to the lakes. Photoperiod is a factor, but it's a broader stroke. Temperature is the final driver. But... most anglers don't fish enough, or probably care, to be there for the initiation. Spawning happens over a period of time in all waters as there's variability in there. Thus, initiation temperature means little to anglers practically speaking. However, hitting waves of spawners is most likely during big temperature increases at the right time.

basseditor reply :

I've seen them on beds starting at about 54 degrees and as high as 80.

I work with many fisheries biologists. This is what they tell me.

The larger the bass, the more hormones they have, which help trigger some spawning urges. Not all eggs hatch successfully at colder temps because they take so long to hatch that they can develop a fungus.

There are many factors though. Photoperiod, moon phases, water temperature, rising water, etc.

Did you hear about the three ShareLunkers in Texas last weekend? It was the first warm day in a while that fell on a full moon. The water is still in the mid 50s in most of our lakes now. It doesn't take much to get those big females moving. March is usually the best month for big bass here, but you can catch a 10 just about any month.

RoLo reply :

On 3/12/2015 at 10:25 AM, Paul Roberts said:

I beg to differ, Roger. If that were so then all lakes would initiate (good metric) spawning at the same time.

But they don't. Water volume plays a big role -and offers a good example- the reason being that large volumes take longer to heat.

Small ponds go first, then larger ones, on up to the lakes. Photoperiod is a factor, but it's a broader stroke. Temperature is the final driver. But... most anglers don't fish enough, or probably care, to be there for the initiation. Spawning happens over a period of time in all waters as there's variability in there. Thus, initiation temperature means little to anglers practically speaking. However, hitting waves of spawners is most likely during big temperature increases at the right time.

"Small ponds go first, then larger ones, on up to the lakes"

That is an observation I've never made.

Due to the lower volume of water in small ponds, I would expect them to be more susceptible

to temperature fluctuation and therefore the biggest offenders of hypothetical thermal barriers.

Roger

Paul Roberts reply :

On 3/12/2015 at 11:57 AM, RoLo said:

"Small ponds go first, then larger ones, on up to the lakes"

That is an observation I've never made.

Due to the lower volume of water in small ponds, I would expect them to be more susceptible to temperature fluctuation

and therefore the biggest offenders of hypothetical thermal barriers.

Roger

I have been aware of this for a long time -being a small water guy for so long- and I even put some numbers (temps and dates) to it a few years ago when I started looking closely at spawn timing, as you probably remember. And, the literature is pretty clear on this too. Photoperiod can be used to manipulate spawning but appropriate temperatures are needed to kick it off.

Yes, temps do fluctuate in small waters, the shallowest quite severely at times. I did see an apparent underlying (photoperiod/endogenous) rhythm at work, evidenced by my shallowest ponds reaching initiation temperatures but no spawning occurring. Good thing too, because that early we could get snow at any time. What did happen was the basic date needed to come around (photoperiod/endogenous), then fine timing was initiated by water temps roughly stabilizing (heat penetrating deep enough to create a volume of relatively stable water temps approaching 60F). Water holds heat well, and once heated, it takes a lot to really knock it down. Fronts may chill things but not completely and reheating is not long in coming with sun angle where it’s at by then. Earlier, the see-saw battle is too dangerous for bass eggs.

Again, most anglers aren’t going to see this, or care all that much. It’s, as Catt has put it, “interesting information” but not all that practical. We fish when we can and those first spawners may not represent the majority of spawners, and may be fleeting -being more at risk to cold snaps than later spawners are. There is an advantage to getting an early jump on the growing season. however. Some years it works out. Selective pressure (as the ultimate cause) tends to keep annual spawning times somewhat consistent, but temperature is the critical proximate cause that kicks it off [EDIT}: over 99.999999% of bass waters.

RoLo reply :

On many occasions Paul, I’ve seen a 10-degree change in water temperature in just a few days.

It’s not only air temperature that changes water temperature, but also wind currents

that push the warm surface layer across the lake, which is replaced by cooler water below (seiches).

Water temperature is volatile and unreliable, it can only be used as a rough rule-of-thumb,

but cannot be used as a reliable indicator of the bedding cycle. For that matter, water temperature

is not even a reliable predictor of bass disposition. Think of all the times that bass in cold water

responded to a lively delivery. Think of all the times when bass in warm water only responded to a slow delivery.

When we lived in Georgia, we fished the big reservoirs like West Point Lake and Lake Lanier,

but also had permission to fish a few private ponds. I can sincerely say that I’ve never noticed

any difference in the spawning calendar period between the small ponds and large lakes.

It was based on latitude (photoperiod) rather than the size of the water.

When we lived on the north shore of “Lake Walk-In-Water” Florida, I seen a bass in our community canal

that was locked on a bed in water in the high 80s. Oddly enough, that fish was bedding during the same period

as the bass in the main lake. Although the timing was the same, the temperature in the main lake was much lower.

In contrast, the bass bedding next to the Walden Shores wharf was in a shallow backwater canal

that behaved no different than a small local pond. The point being, it had no affect on the timing of the spawn.

There are several spring-fed lakes in Florida that maintain the same water temperature throughout the year.

If Mother Nature depended on water temperature to trigger the spawn, she'd be in trouble deep!

Biologists know full-well that the reproductive period in both the animal and vegetable kingdoms

relies on photoperiod, a stable and reliable criterion. The incubation of fish eggs, bird eggs

and the reproductive cycle of deer are all codependent on “day length”. They're triggered by

a given day-length range that occurs later on the calendar as you progress northward to a higher latitude.

Roger

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote
On many occasions Paul, I’ve witnessed a 10-degree change in water temperature in just a few days.

I have too. I've measured water temps directly in beds tended by males ranging from 48 to 79F. That doesn't say anything at all about the initiation of the spawn in those circumstances.

Quote
It’s not only air temperature that changes water temperature but also wind currents that move the upper warm layer across the lake, which is replaced by cooler water below (seiches).

Bass nests in locations prone to seiches are at risk and one of the reasons successful bass nests tend to collect in "protected" bays and coves.

Quote
Water temperature is volatile and unreliable...

Thus the reason for variability in nature. However, water temperature is not nearly as volatile as in air -a basic and important property of water for life.

Quote
When we lived on the shore of “Lake Walk-In-Water” Florida, I seen a bass locked on a bed in water that was in the high 80s. That fish was bedding during the same period as the bass in the main lake. Although the timing was the same, the temperature in the main lake was much lower.

That doesn't tell us much at all about when those fish began spawning. Spawning seasons can run for months. And not all bass spawn at the same time. And the spawning period is a much longer period in the far south. Seeing a bass in a bed at a certain temperature doesn't mean much. You'd have to track temperature profiles from before the spawn on, as I've done.

Quote
On the other hand, the bass bedding next to the Walden Shores wharf was in a shallow backwater canal, which behaved no different than a small local pond.

Then that was a resident fish of a backwater of a larger lake that lived essentially in a small pond. This, provided your data is good: Water temperature profiles for the period leading up to the day that fish received eggs. I know few anglers (actually none) who have bothered to look so close. Most would rather be fishing.

Quote
There are several spring-fed lakes in Florida that maintain the same temperature throughout the year.

That temperature is above 60F, yes? They already have "appropriate temperature" right there. In that (rare) case other cues rear up. In the farthest reaches of LM's introduced range, in fully tropical waters where water temps never drop below 75F, the bass are known to spawn on water level rises. Heat is not necessarily the only potential proximal cause, but the lack thereof is what keeps spawning at bay in 99.999999% of bass waters.

Quote
Water temperature is volatile and unreliable, it can only be used as a rough rule-of-thumb, but cannot be used as a reliable indicator of the bedding cycle.

You certainly don't have to, nor should, take my word for it. But, do a literature search and see how well that statement holds up. You know what's even more volatile and unreliable is the "data" taken by anglers -which is generally none whatsoever. The few surface temps people read during their outings aren't going to get at the question of spawn initiation. Water temperature is the final factor, the cue, for the initiation of spawning. It's pretty solid.

Enjoying the conversation, Roger. Nice to have someone willing to chat about such cool stuff.

Ozark_Basser reply :

On 3/12/2015 at 1:33 PM, RoLo said:

On many occasions Paul, I’ve seen a 10-degree change in water temperature in just a few days.

It’s not only air temperature that changes water temperature, but also wind currents

that push the warm surface layer across the lake, which is replaced by cooler water below (seiches).

Water temperature is volatile and unreliable, it can only be used as a rough rule-of-thumb,

but cannot be used as a reliable indicator of the bedding cycle. For that matter, water temperature

is not even a reliable predictor of bass disposition. Think of all the times that bass in cold water

responded to a lively delivery. Think of all the times when bass in warm water only responded to a slow delivery.

When we lived in Georgia, we fished the big reservoirs like West Point Lake and Lake Lanier,

but also had permission to fish a few private ponds. I can sincerely say that I’ve never noticed

any difference in the spawning calendar period between the small ponds and large lakes.

It was based on latitude (photoperiod) rather than the size of the water.

When we lived on the north shore of “Lake Walk-In-Water” Florida, I seen a bass in our community canal

that was locked on a bed in water in the high 80s. Oddly enough, that fish was bedding during the same period

as the bass in the main lake. Although the timing was the same, the temperature in the main lake was much lower.

In contrast, the bass bedding next to the Walden Shores wharf was in a shallow backwater canal

that behaved no different than a small local pond. The point being, it had no affect on the timing of the spawn.

There are several spring-fed lakes in Florida that maintain the same water temperature throughout the year.

If Mother Nature depended on water temperature to trigger the spawn, she'd be in trouble deep!

Biologists know full-well that the reproductive period in both the animal and vegetable kingdoms

relies on photoperiod, a stable and reliable criterion. The incubation of fish eggs, bird eggs

and the reproductive cycle of deer are all codependent on “day length”. They're triggered by

a given day-length range that occurs later on the calendar as you progress northward to a higher latitude.

Roger

You definitely know more about bass spawning behavior than I do, but I am not so convinced that water temperature has less to do with spawning periods than photoperiod, at least not in my waters. I'll use Bull Shoals Lake and The Buffalo National River as a comparison. On Bull Shoals, I'll find fish on beds in late March and April every year. Forty five minutes south on the Buffalo, it is always much later. I've even caught a smallmouth full of eggs in mid June more than once. The Buffalo never gets as cold as Bull Shoals does in the winter, nor as hot as Bull Shoals in the summer due to constant moving water. In other words, it takes longer to heat up and cool down. This leads me to believe temperature has to play a major role in the spawning cycle.

Perhaps it's regional. In Florida and Georgia, where the water temps can stay suitable for spawning, the bass use photoperiod as an indicator more than bass accustomed to colder water temperatures. But what about places in Florida where bass can spawn twice a year? How would photoperiod play into that?

Catt reply :

There are a growing number of biologists who have concluded there is strong evidence supporting the whole spawning ritual as a series of events occuring in rapid session and/or simultaneously with no individual event more dominate, just an appearance of dominace.

When we step back and look at the whole spawning ritual, it is then we notice less evidence supporting one single event controlling all of those changes to the enviroment and the bass.

From my on the water experience I tend to agree!

Mainebass1984 reply :

It appears through my personal experience that smaller bodies of water have an earlier spawn then larger bodies of water where I am from. It is difficult to compare the spawn in Maine, to Florida, or to California. The spawn different all across the country. Up here in New England ice out has a huge factor on the spawn. A smaller body of water will loose all of its ice much sooner then a bigger body of water. With that being said a smaller body of water will have a week or two weeks to warm up while the larger lakes are still frozen. In my area a 300 acre pond always will have an earlier spawn then a 30,000 acre lake.The spawn generally lasts 3 weeks up here. The fish here come in 3 distinct waves, early spawners, spawners and late spawners. In any lake or pond not all the bass are spawning at the same time. I do believe that there are many factors that lead to the actually act of spawning, not just making beds, or guarding eggs, but actually releasing the eggs.

In my own experience for fish up here in New England, temperature is the final factor in this equation. There are also many factors that determine whether or not if the spawn itself will lead to good or bad recruitment.

RoLo reply :

On 3/12/2015 at 3:58 PM, Jiggin said:

You definitely know more about bass spawning behavior than I do, but I am not so convinced that water temperature has less to do with spawning periods than photoperiod, at least not in my waters. I'll use Bull Shoals Lake and The Buffalo National River as a comparison. On Bull Shoals, I'll find fish on beds in late March and April every year. Forty five minutes south on the Buffalo, it is always much later.

I've even caught a smallmouth full of eggs in mid June more than once.

That's a common misconception.

The cow bass produces more eggs than she requires. Her roe store is sufficient to visit several beds

swept clean by male bass, and then some. Most cow bass will still have surplus roe after the bedding season is over.

In other words, finding roe in a fish is not a reliable indicator that the fish is actively engaged in spawning.

Another monkey wrench is the fact that not all sexually mature bass spawn every year.

Quote
Perhaps it's regional. In Florida and Georgia, where the water temps can stay suitable for spawning, the bass use photoperiod as an indicator more than bass accustomed to colder water temperatures. But what about places in Florida where bass can spawn twice a year? How would photoperiod play into that?

The answer to that question only reinforces the importance of photoperiod.

If it were left to water temperature alone, fish would spawn twice a year,

but 'photoperiod' consists of two elements that prevent that from happening:

> Day- Length Range (shortest to longest supportive sunlight duration)

> Day-Length Direction (lengthening daylight OR shortening daylight)

Bass spawn and spring-flowers bloom only during 'lengthening' daylight, but if these events were based

on temperature, bass would spawn in both spring & fall, and spring-blooming flowers would bloom in spring & fall

Roger

WRB reply :

Roger,

How do you explain lakes that are in the same latitude, longitude with 30 to 50 miles having spawning cycles starting 4 months apart with the same photoperiod?

California is unlike Florida topography, we have one feature in common, coastal zone. Florida is nearly surrounded by ocean water and very little change in altitude. California coastal zones have a coastal mountain range, large valley zones boarded by higher mountain ranges that creates a Mditerresn climate.

The example of Big Bear lake in the San Bernadino mountains at 7,000 ft the bass begin to spawn late May to early June. Silverwood lake, about the same size and depth is 30 miles away at 3,500 ft altitude, the spawn begins in April to May and Lake Perris or DVL about 50 miles away from both Big Bear and Silverwood located in the valley at less than 1,000 ft altitude the spawn starts in March to April. Where I fish is 100 miles further north at Lake Casitas, a coastal foothill lake and the spawn started in late Feb to March.

The key factor at these lakes is water temperature and stable weather that combined with the longer day light hours allows the water to warm into the 60's at the depth the bass spawn.

The higher alititude lakes warm slower due to thinner air and colder nights,

Sure their are lots of other factors to consider, photoperiod is a factor.

Tom

Catt reply :

We know Mexico spawns before Minnesota but the same list of parameters, conditions, or factors are present at both locations.

WRB reply :

Photoperiods and climate are vastly different between Minnisota and Mexico because of latitude.

Altitude plays a big factor in California. For example the same exact photoperiod can be found in Palm Springs and Mt San Jacinto. 2 mile tram ride takes from over 100 degrees in Palm Springs in the desert to below freezing at the top of the tram. Big Bear lake is about 30 miles away from Palm Springs and San Jacinto as the crow flies and less then 5 miles from Mt San Gorgonio.

Tom

RoLo reply :

The following is a direct quote from a Bass Resource article entitled: “Springtime and Spawning”.

<quote> “Fish reproduction tends to primarily be cued by photoperiod - how much light and dark in a day.

However, it can be modified somewhat by temperature" <unquote>

http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/springtime-spawning.html

The URL below involves the culture of Florida-strain bass, published by the Texas Inland Waters Division.

In this account, 'photoperiod manipulation' is the primary tool, where water temperature is important only inasmuch

as it provides the preferred minimum incubation temperature of 13 C (59 deg F). It’s a lengthy PDF,

so I’d recommend typing the word "photoperiod" in your search engine.

http://fisheries.tamu.edu/files/2013/09/Guidelines-for-the-Culture-of-Black-Bass.pdf

Let's shake it up some more:

In spite of its strong empirical following (anecdotal evidence) the influence of moon phase on bass spawning activity

has never been substantiated by science. On the other hand, “water level and the direction of water level”

has a known and telling effect on spawning activity, yet it's rarely addressed. High and rising water levels

stimulate spawning, while low and falling water levels undermine the urge to spawn. Low water levels

are in fact responsible for year-class holes in the biomass. For instance, this year in Florida

we have unusually high water levels in most of our major fisheries. Although no one is talking about it 'yet',

2015 will go down as a banner spawning year in Florida.

Roger

Dwight Hottle reply :

On 3/13/2015 at 12:15 AM, RoLo said:

The following is a direct quote from a Bass Resource article entitled: “Springtime and Spawning”.

<quote> “Fish reproduction tends to primarily be cued by photoperiod - how much light and dark in a day.

However, it can be modified somewhat by temperature" <unquote>

http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/springtime-spawning.html

The URL below involves the culture of Florida-strain bass, published by the Texas Inland Waters Division.

In this account, 'photoperiod manipulation' is the primary tool, where water temperature is important only inasmuch

as it provides the preferred minimum incubation temperature of 13 C (59 deg F). It’s a lengthy PDF,

so I’d recommend typing the word "photoperiod" in your search engine.

http://fisheries.tamu.edu/files/2013/09/Guidelines-for-the-Culture-of-Black-Bass.pdf

Let's shake it up some more:

In spite of its strong empirical following (anecdotal evidence) the influence of moon phase on bass spawning activity

has never been substantiated by science. On the other hand, “water level and the direction of water level”

has a known and telling effect on spawning activity, yet it's rarely addressed. High and rising water levels

stimulate spawning, while low and falling water levels undermine the urge to spawn. Low water levels

are in fact responsible for year-class holes in the biomass. For instance, this year in Florida

we have unusually high water levels in most of our major fisheries. Although no one is talking about it 'yet',

2015 will go down as a banner spawning year in Florida.

Roger

Interesting observation about 2015 spawn. I'm willing to bet that 2015 will go down as a banner year for DD bass caught & reported as well.

Paul Roberts reply :

On 3/13/2015 at 12:15 AM, RoLo said:

Let's shake it up some more:

In spite of its strong empirical following (anecdotal evidence) the influence of moon phase on bass spawning activity
has never been substantiated by science. On the other hand, “water level and the direction of water level” has a known and telling effect on spawning activity, yet it's rarely addressed. High and rising water levels stimulate spawning, while low and falling water levels undermine the urge to spawn. Low water levels are in fact responsible for year-class holes in the biomass. For instance, this year in Florida we have unusually high water levels in most of our major fisheries. Although no one is talking about it 'yet', 2015 will go down as a banner spawning year in Florida.

Roger

Agree with you on the moon comment. Your prediction of a banner year for the 2015 reproductive season is probably going to be born out. However, the effect of high water level is likely to be more on fry survival than it is on spawn timing.

RoLo reply :

On 3/13/2015 at 10:09 AM, Paul Roberts said:
Agree with you on the moon comment. Your prediction of a banner year for the 2015 reproductive season is probably going to be born out. However, the effect of high water level is likely to be more on fry survival than it is on spawn timing.

When I mentioned the bonus of high water, I wasn't alluding to spawn timing nor fry survival.

The typical natural lake in Florida exhibits slow tapering bottom contour in the littoral zone.

In and of itself, high water during the spawning season can result in a multifold increase in eligible bedding flats.

Depending on the bottom contour of the lake in question, a mere 12-inch elevation in pool level

could possibly 'double' the area of suitable spawning grounds (i.e. population dynamics).

Roger

Paul Roberts reply :

Ah! So the limitation is suitable spawning habitat. I was thinking spawn timing since this is the thread topic. I was also thinking how, in many waters, high water brings increased fry survival from increased fry habitat. The boons in my ponds get their start on high water years.

Just goes to show that all politics is local. There's a lot going on out there that's for sure. Our job is to find patterns in it all. Good conversation.

WRB reply :

Roger, Florida has the lowest average elevation then any other state, the highest point in northern Florida is less then 350 ft, the temperatures are stable, day to night doesn't vary more than 10 degres,therefore water temperature do not vary much, as you stated earlier. The bass react to photoperiods, changes in length of day light, they don't have much else to stimulate a spawn.

The Texas plain is similar, varies from 750 ft to about 300 ft, flat like Florida. West Texas border with New Mexico has a mountain range. Texas is colder then Florida, not sure what the average day to night temperature changes are, excluding severe weather. I agree that photoperiods would have a major impact for the lakes located in east Texas plain when the temperature are stable.

California the average year around day to night temperature change average is 30 degrees, less close to the coast, more inland and at high altitudes. Lots of micro climates that affect water temperatures, the photoperiod has less affect than water temperature, but definitely is a factor.

Good discussion with differing points of view, thanks for bring the photoperiod topic up.

Being in a 4 year drought and very low pool levels, our spawn recruitment will be low, very sparse cover for the fry to hide in.

Tom

Paul Roberts reply :

Apparently, most FL waters do vary in temperature. And the important values appear to be in the same ballpark as the rest of the country:

From Rogers' and Allen's "Water Temps Drive the Spawn":

http://sfrc.ufl.edu/allenlab/Popular%20Articles/Rogers&Allen_BassTimes.pdf

Alonerankin2 reply :

To whom it may concern,

My questions are as follows, how can one state emphatically that the moon influence has either a influence on spawn, or no influence on spawn? In what measure? It's known what effects the moon has on at least some aspects of life and water. Is not the photoperiod a constant day to day, season to season, one year to the next, reliable fact of life? So, it stands to reason ( fact ) this is reliable. Weather is the fairly unpredictable factor here. It stands to reason that photoperiod is the single most important factor, but it's result is increased water temp, along with plant growth. Seems to me the deciding factor has to be water temp. This now presents a new question to me. How is it assumed now, that Florida stands to have a Banner year in Spawing & DD FLMB fishes? What is this prediction based on? Surely not the photoperiod. I find this interesting if not a bit perplexing on at least a couple points.

Thanks for any clarification..

WRB reply :

This years spawn will not reach DD weights for at least 5 years, you need to look at water levels and spawning success for prior years. High water offers more new areas for the bass to find prey, which in turn makes the DD bass more catchable because anglers target the new flooded areas.

The photoperiod is a major factor if the water temps are above 60 degrees and as I have explained that doesn't always occur everywherein the same lake, deep cold water warms slower than shallow protected areas or differing climate conditions.

My 2 cents, let the experts explain it to you.

Tom

Paul Roberts reply :

On 3/13/2015 at 1:09 PM, Alonerankin2 said:
how can one state emphatically that the moon influence has either a influence on spawn, or no influence on spawn? In what measure? It's known what effects the moon has on at least some aspects of life and water.

Effects on other life forms don’t necessarily stretch across all life forms. We all love such an idea, as a unifying theory simplifies things. There are unifying things but they are difficult to get at, and we are easily fooled. Every scientist who has gotten in deep –put in the work– has come up against their own biases.

What is “known” about moon effects on freshwater fish comes from fisherman’s theories, angler catch records, and scientists research. Angler theories are rarely, if ever, really appropriately tested and when taken collectively include the entire month! They can’t all be right. Angler catch records some say show some statistical evidence for lunar effects. None have held up to rigorous statistical evaluation however. Scientific research looking at lunar effects on bass have not shown any solid effects. I attempted to tackle the question myself and did not find any smoking guns that could not be explained by other means.

I am not terribly enamored by moon theories anymore, however I will keep an open mind. It is still possible that even a minor effect (such as moon influence) could be unmasked from the shadow of more important (and likely more local) effectors in certain circumstances. I’m not closed to that. But I’m highly skeptical, esp where sufficient rigor has not been applied. It’s human nature to jump at answers.

Quote
Is not the photoperiod a constant day to day, season to season, one year to the next, reliable fact of life? So, it stands to reason ( fact ) this is reliable.

The sun coming up every day, through the year, and even beyond, is the most reliable thing known.

Quote
Weather is the fairly unpredictable factor here. It stands to reason that photoperiod is the single most important factor, but it's result is increased water temp, along with plant growth. Seems to me the deciding factor has to be water temp. This now presents a new question to me. How is it assumed now, that Florida stands to have a Banner year in Spawing & DD FLMB fishes? What is this prediction based on? Surely not the photoperiod. I find this interesting if not a bit perplexing on at least a couple points.

I think what Roger’s referring to is the fact that there are events that affect reproduction that, if recognized, make reasonably good predictors. In that case he’s talking recruitment: water level being an important –even critical– factor in year class success. He’s right. Doesn’t mean it’ll pan out exactly as planned, but the pattern of high water during the spawn tends to result in good YOY (young-of-the-year) survivorship. That’s the start for a strong year class. It's a good prediction.

Paul Roberts reply :

As Catt suggests above, there is no one event. There are multiple events in a cycle that starts the previous year.

Some key factors:

Egg maturation -Having the raw materials to get the job done happens the previous year or, in some individuals or even populations during tough conditions, the final "deposits" are made during early spring. This is why the larger fish are more apt to spawn earliest -they can afford it. And small fish are most apt spawn latest. I've seen this in my own (albeit amateur) pond studies. Southern females may spawn more than once; far northern fish may not spawn every year. Tropical bass (introduced) have shown an extended spawning season (like south FL)

Photoperiod -Photoperiod changes have direct endocrine effects that goad the process and GENERALLY synchonize the event. Lots of literature out there on this and it's powerful enough to experimentally force spawning events in fish and other animals -with other keys in place, temperature being the final requirement.

Temperature -Temperature is critical to cold-blooded creatures, and with fish it is the final push. It allows for body weight gain efficiency, activity required for spawning behaviors, and protects temperature sensitive eggs.

Alonerankin2 reply :

Thank you Mr. Paul Roberts, I appreciate your response.

Catt reply :

We must look at the entire spawning ritual, which does not start with the first egg laid!

We would have to be kinda naive to think one parameter, condition, event, factor or what ever adjective or adverbs we care to use could control this complex of a process.

We can draw one conclusion for certain; each has to be present and accounted for in order for the spawn to occur.

WRB reply :

Agree

Paul Roberts reply :

Agree. except to say that, in 99.99999% of waters, temperature is the thing to track for initiation.

RoLo reply :

IMO, daring to place any one criterion in the driver's seat simply misses the big picture.

There are exceptions notwithstanding, when photoperiod is indeed the major indicator,

for instance, in spring-fed waters that maintain a stable year-round water temperature.

On the other hand, I'm not aware of any situation when water temperature (a volatile measure with a wide supportive latitude)

could possibly stand alone for initiation or closure.

Roger

Paul Roberts reply :

Roger, no one has said temperature stands alone.

RoLo reply :

On 3/15/2015 at 8:57 AM, Paul Roberts said:
Roger, no one has said temperature stands alone.

99.99999% sounds pretty alone ;-)

Paul Roberts reply :

The remaining 0.000001% of bass waters I'm referring to are the isothermic spring waters, and tropical reservoirs where LM have been introduced well south of their existing range. I suppose we might be able to add in some cooling reservoirs, but most of those have cool locations and periods too. We're still looking at a tiny percentage of bass waters where temperature doesn't play a dominant and final role.

Catt reply :

On 3/15/2015 at 7:50 AM, Paul Roberts said:
Agree. except to say that, in 99.99999% of waters, temperature is the thing to track for initiation.

That pretty much says ya think temperature "alone" starts the spawn!

Falsifiable: A hypothesis or theory is an inherent possibility to prove it to be false.

Example: all swans are white, yet it is logically possible to falsify it by observing a single black swan. Karl Popper's scientific epistemology "falsificationism"

Your 0.000001% proves your hypothesis/ theory false!

basseditor reply :

Anecdotal evidence from today... Launch ramp area water temperature was mid 50s. I didn't get to practice so I didn't know where and at what stage the bass were in. So we're thinking ok, traps in the grass. Prespawn mode right?

We go to an area that usually has grass. First fish was 5+ then nothing for an hour. So time to move. We go to a cove that warms pretty quickly and temp was a few degrees warmer. About 57-58. About noon, clouds clear out and when the sun is up enough to see beds, guess what? Beds all over. Bass in full spawning mode and the temperature was still under 60 degrees.

RoLo reply :

On 3/15/2015 at 11:02 AM, Paul Roberts said:
The remaining 0.000001% of bass waters I'm referring to are the isothermic spring waters.

0.000001% is a brutal underestimation of the area comprised by isothermic waterbodies.

There are throngs of waters that disavow water temperature, to name just a few:

> Crystal River (7 miles long) 72-deg year-round

> Blue Grotto Springs (359 million gal/day) 74.3 deg year-round

> Alapaha Rise Springs (384 million gal/day) 70.3-deg year-round

> Rainbow River (5.7 miles long) 73-deg year-round

> Ichetucknee Springs (6-miles long) 72 deg year-round

> Ponce De Leon Springs (14 million gal/day) 68-deg year-round

> Aucilla Spring (189 millions gal/day) 68.9-deg year-round

> Emerald Spring (125 million gal/day) 70.5-deg year-round

> Gainer Spring (125 million gal/day) 70.9-deg year-round

> St Marks Rise (292 million gal/day) 68.8-deg year-round

> Otter Springs – White Spring – Worthington Spring – Troy Spring – Telford Spring ~ ~ ~ ~

Quote
and tropical reservoirs where LM have been introduced well south of their existing range.

Tropical reservoirs?

No not Cuba, all these waters are found right here inside the 'native range' of the largemouth bass

Roger

Paul Roberts reply :

So.... 0.0000001% of swans (or pick your critter) are "black" (or pick your rare trait). That could well be true. Are you saying that Karl Popper was suggesting otherwise?

Maybe you could give some well documented examples of other circumstances beyond the springs and tropical introductions (Puerto Rico) that refute the importance of heat in bass spawning. Then we could adjust that value to ... maybe 0.000002%.

Roger, shall we bump to 0.00003%

On 3/15/2015 at 1:09 PM, basseditor said:
Anecdotal evidence from today... Launch ramp area water temperature was mid 50s. I didn't get to practice so I didn't know where and at what stage the bass were in. So we're thinking ok, traps in the grass. Prespawn mode right?

We go to an area that usually has grass. First fish was 5+ then nothing for an hour. So time to move. We go to a cove that warms pretty quickly and temp was a few degrees warmer. About 57-58. About noon, clouds clear out and when the sun is up enough to see beds, guess what? Beds all over. Bass in full spawning mode and the temperature was still under 60 degrees.

But, do you have temperature profiles for the previous 2 weeks? TPW gives a value of 15C. Possibly they are less equipped to monitor such things?

I'm not trying to be difficult here. Just haven't found any solid data that refute the role of temperature in the initiation of bass spawning.

Catt reply :

Really Paul, ya sounding like someone else we know!

Empirical: based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

Scientific Method: MUST meet all 4 principles

Observation, Testable, Repeatable, & Falsifiable

Your hypothesis/theory was proven false by your 0.000001%!

RoLo reply :

On 3/15/2015 at 1:47 PM, Paul Roberts said:
Maybe you could give some well documented examples of other circumstances beyond the springs and tropical introductions (Puerto Rico) that refute the importance of heat in bass spawning. Then we could adjust that value to ... maybe 0.000002%.

PUERTO RICO?? (now that's funny right there)

Spring-fed waters with a static year-round temperature have nothing to do with the "tropics"

Ground water that springs from isothermic aquifers & sinkholes is independent of the earth's atmosphere.

FYI: Isothermic waters are found in Georgia, Florida, Texas, Arizona and several other states.

Anyway if you want to include Puerto Rico & Cuba in the mix, then your 0.000001% only becomes more preposterous.

Regardless, let's pretend that it's only 0.000001% of waters that totally eliminate the significance of water temperature.

Can you give me an example of 0.000001% waters that totally eliminate the significance of photoperiod?

(of course not)

Roger

Paul Roberts reply :

This is getting a little weird guys. A little too personal maybe.

Catt, you've lost me. And...dunno who that someone else is, and I'm not sure I care to hear a put-down. I'm staying on topic.

Let me restate the statistic so it's better understood:

How many BR members do you think fish bass waters in which temperature plays an important role in the initiation of spawning? 50%, 90%, 99%, 99.999%? The reciprocal of that represents the waters in which temperature does not play a role.

On 3/15/2015 at 11:08 PM, RoLo said:

Puerto Rico? (that's funny right there)

Spring-fed waters with static year-round temperatures have little to do with "tropical" (they spring from aquifers & karsts)

FYI: Isothermic waters are also found in Florida, Texas, Arizona and other states.

Anyway, if you want to include Puerto Rico & Cuba in the mix, then 0.000001% only becomes more preposterous.

Regardless, let's pretend that only 0.000001% of waters totally eliminate the importance of water temperature.

Can you give me an example of 0.000001% waters that totally eliminate the importance of photoperiod?

Roger

Tropical waters are similar to springs in that they are nearly isothermic. Isothermic waters are pretty darn rare across the basses' range. You place the hypothetical decimal place where ever you want it. You must admit they make up a tiny percentage of bass waters.

Can I give you an example of waters that totally eliminates photoperiod? No. 100% of bass waters are affected by photoperiod is my answer -again. This question tells me you haven't actually read this thread. Not sure what Catt and his new clutch friend Karl would say about the reciprocal of that one.

Hey, guys, go review the scientific literature on bass spawning. And if you want to go further, get a thermometer and start taking daily profiles and observing when bass actually initiate spawning. Occasionally running around with a surface temperature gauge isn't going to get the job done.

I'm outta the sandbox.

Catt reply :

Paul, what do you do with the 0.000001% of the research that does not agree with the other 99.99999%?

WRB reply :

Using aquaifer spring water feed waterways to support your theory where water temperature do not vary are isolated to a few locations. Most bass lakes are not primarily spring feed or have constant water temperatures. Okeechobee for example, the largest Florida lake, varies from 59f to 86f annually. Florids strain LMB have evolved in waterways where water temperature rarely drop below 50 degrees and this limits there distribution to waterways that don't drop below a core water temperature of 45f, they can't survive.

If water temps are a constant ideal spawning temperature, photoperiod becomes a primary factor, agreed.

Where water temperature drops below 50 degrees in the winter and warms to ideal spawning temperatures photoperiod becomes secondary, if the longer sunlight period doesn't warm all the regional water equally. Lets agree to disagree until someone can prove otherwise.

Tom

PS, update on the lakes I mentioned earlier;

Casitas, 1st wave is complete with fry schools.

Castaic, 1st wave moving up and will spawn any day now.

Big Bear, the lake is now ice free, spawn should begin in May.

J Francho reply :

I've seen enough madness surrounding whne the spawn starts, and what gets it started, moon, temp, length of daylight, wearing red jeans.....

I'll say this...tempaterature has an effect on the viability of the eggs laid, and can even have an effect on the gender of the hatching fry. That's true for just about ANY egg laying fish. Lower temps = longer incubation time, which means more time with a male guarding the nest, and vice versa. I can't remember the relationship with temp to gender, but there were several farms using to influence the gender of the "crops."

So, if temperature can affect the outcome of the spawn, then I hypothesize that there is a optimal temp. I have no way to test this, but research (different from expieriments guys!) shows it's somewhere in the low 60s.

Up here, when water temp is on the rise, approaching 60° F, I start checking my ponds. They always spawn first. Then it's shallower, warmer Lakes, finally, the bigger deep lakes. I've seen smallies on beds in Lake Ontario a full month after I've caught smallies on beds in the bays. And then I've seen largemouth on beds in late July on Chautaqua Lake. Crazy stuff. I do think temperature has a big effect, but I also think that there's a ot of other factors. Moon phase, wind, suitable, calm locations, etc. Basically all the ideal conditions have to come into alignment. There's probably a window of time around this alignment that would be the "spawn."

Anyway, that's how I think of it. Anyone that says you can predict using one parameter is lying or deluded.

LuckyGia reply :

I have read and researched this for months.

Supposedly around 50° is the magic #.

Problem I had was it never got below 69° here in Florida. .

So I threw all that info out the window and found my own info.

Here the females are just now starting to bed and temps are 79° -84°

So go figure

You know what, I don't know

rdj3385 reply :

As a newb to BR I have to say...that was a riot. Thank you all. FWIW (which is literally nothing) I'm gonna go ahead and conclude that temp is in fact the primary factor in 99.8257% of waters. That should settle the debate. *drops keyboard, walks away*

J Francho reply :

On 4/10/2015 at 3:50 AM, LuckyGia said:

I have read and researched this for months.

Supposedly around 50° is the magic #.

Problem I had was it never got below 69° here in Florida. .

So I threw all that info out the window and found my own info.

Here the females are just now starting to bed and temps are 79° -84°

So go figure

You know what, I don't know

50° is the oft quoted temperature for prespawn activities. Water temps up here are typically 60-65 when the soawn starts.

Mista bass reply :

I believe the photo period plays a huge role in spawning.i say this because I breed fresh and saltwater fish, mostly salt. When I want to get fish to spawn I play with the light period. The temperature matters but not as much much as the light. Granted this is in a controlled environment so take it for what it's worth.

WRB reply :

I would think most of the east coast is going to have a late spawn this cold spring, should be on now.

Big Bear lake in SoCal is still very cold with night temps averaging 20 degrees, day time 50 degrees, the water is cold, the spawn will be in late May to June..and located 100 miles further south at 7,000' altitude. Lake Casitas the spawn started in March, located a few miles from the beach is now about 3/4 over, third wave on beds, red ears starting to make beds.. Lake Castaic the spawn just started last week.

All 3 lakes are in the same photoperiod with very different water temps.

500 miles further north at the Delta the spawn is on and Clear Lake the spawn started, different photoperiods, mild weather this spring in NorCal, very little cold water rain runoff.

Lot of factors to consider with the spawn. Mother Nature doesn't put all her eggs in one basket.

Bass spawning water temps between 60-70 degrees is based on the empirical rule and observation of bass spawning.

Tom

LuckyGia reply :

I agree, I also believe how the previous winter behaved is a big factor in the spawn. I was catching female bass full of eggs about 3 weeks after ice out last year. Lakes were ice until April in Upstate NY.

LuckyGia reply :

On 4/11/2015 at 4:08 AM, LuckyGia said:
I agree, I also believe how the previous winter behaved is a big factor in the spawn. I was catching female bass full of eggs about 3 weeks after ice out last year. Lakes were ice until April in Upstate NY.

this bass in my Avatar is the female I am talking about.

LuckyGia reply :

And yes, that is a S.U. hoodie.

There is no other team in college basketball !

The Orange are New York States home town team !

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