“This Prevents Me From Fishing History” 2024

Catt reply :

After reading glenn’s recent commit I decided it’s time to discuss this subject!

History is your experience you cannot ignore it?

So you’re saying after 39 years of fishing Toledo Bend when I get to the lake Saturday morning I supposed to ignore everything I’ve learned about the lake?

Are guides like George Welcome or Randall to forget all they have learned over the years and take clients out to try to find “new” water?

I’ve never liked that buzz phrase and roll around on the floor laughing every time I hear it.

Y’all have heard it quoted numerous times, “Consistently catching bass is a process of elimination and duplication. Eliminate patterns and structures (waters) that are non-productive and duplicate patterns and structures that are productive.”

While patterns may change daily, structures (waters) will not; what will change with structures (waters) is where the bass are located in relation to that structure.

History is what makes you the fisherman you are

figure8racer reply :

Catt I totally agree that someone with your experience and knowledge on a specific body of water should not ignore past experience only for the sake of trying out new water. However for someone like me who lacks the knowledge and experience this can be a good idea. I think what's most important is to actually pay attention to what you were doing and where you were doing it when you were successful. I all to often find myself at the end of a fishing trip asking why I was or was not successful and most time cannot come up with a logical thought out answer. I think what causes this most for me is a lack of focus on the where and why. I'm fairly new to the game and haven't developed any true patterns to this day. Sure I've burned down a bank with a 1minus crank and slayed em a few times but that was more luck than anything. Yet I find myself headed back to that same bank time and again because "that's where I busted em up that one time". Think for a focused and educated angler ignoring your instincts and knowledge for the sake of new water would be not only a waste of time but a wasted trip. For me it isn't really about trying new water, but actually paying attention to what's going on in regards to an actual pattern which would probably lead me to new waters which duplicate this pattern. Just my $.02 worth

J Francho reply :

It means don't fish a spot simply because you caught fish there before. He's saying EXACTLY what you are saying Catt - know WHY to fish somewhere.

grimlin reply :

Weren't you the one who used the phase.. "If you always done what you've done you'll always catch what you catch."?

I always took that phase as always trying something new and better to improve yourself.This can fall into the category of someone who uses "fishing history".Fishing history can be a bad thing sometimes.Like Francho pointed out...know "why" your fishing there.I don't think I'll ever fully grasp the why...but I'm trying. I'm shorebound so I'm limited to where and what I can fish sometimes.Which sucks.

But then again with your history Catt....I'm quite jealous.....

Catt reply :

If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you always got!

That statement can be negative or positive depending on what your results are, if your results are poor then you need to change while if your results are good you don’t need to change.

If 10% of the water holds 90% of the fish why would you not want to fish where you have caught before?

Ask guides if each morning when they leave the dock do they go looking for new water or do they start where they have caught before?

I fish some of the same prime structure I’ve fished 40 years ago and not just on Toledo Bend, I recently went to Vernon Lake and caught bass off the same structure where I caught them 29 years ago. Now I had to find them on that structure but the bass were still there.

Eliminate your history you've eliminated your experience

SirSnookalot reply :

If I were a guide and my livelyhood depended on finding fish, that's where I would take my clients. As a recreational fisherman, catching fish is a byproduct of my total experience. I enjoy seeing new sights, meeting new people, eating at new restaurants and in the process just may make a discovery. Going to the same place day after day can get boring even if your catching great fish.

Catching a fish is not life or death for me, it's a recreational endeavor.

J Francho reply :

Catt, what would you do on Lake Erie? No, you can't hire a guide.

When you don't have 40 years of experience on a water, then you have to look for fish. It's as simple as that.

George Welcome reply :

Hopefully as you fish your lake you have not only answered the "where" question, but also the why, and when. I have placed lake areas into the answer areas of, where, when, and why. This history is very good history. If I only fished that area in which I can only answer the "where" question, then fishing that history might prove unfruitful.

Even with the three critical questions answered you just might strike out, so be armed with the knowledge to search similar but unknown areas.

Seasons, structure, cover, transient areas, and special events should be all part of your historical knowledge. If they are then by all means fish the history.

By the way: nothing is as good as local information - don't be afraid to ask!

Catt reply :

On 9/7/2011 at 10:41 PM, J Francho said:

Catt, what would you do on Lake Erie? No, you can't hire a guide.

When you don't have 40 years of experience on a water, then you have to look for fish. It's as simple as that.

Agreed but the subject of this thread is using your fishing history

WRB reply :

I don't believe the intent is to forget what you know every time out on the water. If you do exactly the same thing you always do and you are unsuccessful, then it's time to make a change to what you are doing.

We all develop both good and bad habits and sometimes it takes fishing with new partners or new presentations to realize this.

Sturcture does change? it ages and changes it suttle ways that may make it better or less attractive to bass and prey. The lakes I fish some of the best isolated rock piles are now silted over or all the wood cover has rotted away.

I totally agree with Catt on this subject; you can't toss out out your experience for the sake of change. On the other hand pounding the bank when the bass are out in deeper water behind you or vice versa, you do need to take the time to figure out why you caught bass and or why your are not catching them and learn from both experiences.

Tom

J Francho reply :

On 9/7/2011 at 11:00 PM, Catt said:

Agreed but the subject of this thread is using your fishing history

Sorry Catt, this time you are creating context and picking on other statements out of context.

Fishing is full of contradictions, just like life. Get used to it.

Gatorbassman reply :

I feel that to many times people who are "young" in the sport of bass fishing get caught up in using the same lure at the same spot day in and day out. And when they don't catch a fish they find themselves at a loss. They don't know what to do. If they aren't trying to find new water on a regular basis then they are putting themselves at a handicap.

Anglers who have years of experience sometimes get caught up in what the pattern was. They are searching for what the patter was not what the pattern is. If they aren't trying to find new water on a regular basis then they are putting themselves at a handicap.

On Clarks Hill, "back then" doesn't mean squat to me. I want to know what's going on right now. As most people have heard, Clarks Hill is a blueback Herring lake. It is but, if you went out there right now and tried to fish a Herring pattern you'd find yourself catching a bunch of short fish. Why? Because Clarks Hill has changed this year. The Corps of Engineers don't care about water quality for fish so they let the water get so bad the past few summers that the fish ether moved or died. Many of them died, both baitfish and bass. So there are a bunch of old guys scratching their heads because they aren't catching fish on their part of the lake. That part of the lake was my part of the lake until I put the puzzle together and moved. Now I'm catching good limits again while I'm still seeing limits of 8lbs being weighed in at tournaments.

On the 125 acre lake that I guide on, for the past four years July, August, and September have been topwater heaven up the creek. Some of my videos show this. So when I took a trip up there last week the fist place I went was up the creek. I fully expected to catch bass up there and I caught nothing. I waisted half of the day searching for bass in the north end of the lake because I was "Fishing History". I failed to realize that the water temp had fallen 9 degrees in the two days prior to my trip and the bass had moved. They hadn't just move a few hundred yards. They moved nearly a mile, back to the main part of the lake. I found this out when I tossed history out and started thinking about what was going on right now. I started looking for the pieces of the puzzle and put them together. Did I fish spots that I had never fished before. No, But I fished spots that I don't usually fish this time of year. By the end of the day my best five went about 40 pounds.

The fact is that history will give you some of the pieces of the puzzle but it won't give you all of them. You use history as you would any other tool. It helps but it's not going to find and catch the fish for you.

K_Mac reply :

On 9/7/2011 at 10:58 PM, George Welcome said:

Hopefully as you fish your lake you have not only answered the "where" question, but also the why, and when. I have placed lake areas into the answer areas of, where, when, and why. This history is very good history. If I only fished that area in which I can only answer the "where" question, then fishing that history might prove unfruitful.

Even with the three critical questions answered you just might strike out, so be armed with the knowledge to search similar but unknown areas.

Seasons, structure, cover, transient areas, and special events should be all part of your historical knowledge. If they are then by all means fish the history

By the way: nothing is as good as local information - don't be afraid to ask!

George I think you hit the nail on the head. Once you can answer the questions related to a particular spot, then you can apply that knowledge and understanding to other areas. Having history with a specific body of water and fishing in general is a wonderful thing if you understand this; those that don't will never be consistent.

I know a couple of guys who are fine fishermen when fishing is good. They have a couple of spots in a few lakes that when conditions are right, will produce fish. When those conditions are not present they fish those same spots with much less success. For them "history" limits their choices of both baits and locations.

One issue with fishing "history" is it sometimes limits our willingness to learn new techniques, which is a big part of the joy of fishing IMO. This year I have learned much about targeting shallow fish in heavy cover. It has not replaced my passion for deeper structure, but it is a lot of fun. It also makes me a more versatile and effective fisherman.

figure8racer reply :

Lol Francho I guess I did take a short answer and make it an extremely ong one.

WRB reply :

I nearly always start my day with the same routine; launch the boat, check the surface water for clarity, baitfish or bass around the dock, check the water temperature, then meter around the launch ramp. Based on what I obsever make the decission what tackle I want to get ready and where to start my day fishing. Sometimes it's fish the active bass in the marina or run to a seasonal area or a spot I like and let the day evolve. The decissions you make will determine your success.

Sometimes it's a small observation like a blue heron standing on a point or splashes or grebes or a meter bait ball that is unexpected turns your day around.

Experience helps to make the right decissions, but it's isn't a panacea.

Sometimes it's just luck being in the right place at the right time.

Tom

Catt reply :

George, I have answered the where and why! The where is primary structure which in turn answers the “why”, that being primary structure holds bass and bait, what I have to answer daily is the “when”. Seasons, structure, cover, transient areas, breaks & breakline and special events are all part of my historical knowledge.

J Francho, how am I creating context or picking on other statements out of context? You mentioned a lake I have no history on or not hiring a guide; I’m talking about a body of water one has history on and about how guides go about their daily routine.

WRB, some bodies of water with enough current will have structural changes but most will not. While I’m fishing the same structure the breaks & breakline may have changed but the contour of the structure has not.

With 40 years experience on Toledo Bend I still spend a portion of my time looking for new water but I would be foolish to ignore, forget, or cross off my list water that have been productive just for the sake of looking for new water.

Now believe my I know it would be useless to fish a spawning flat during the dog days of summer or a 25’ deep ridge during the spawn.

With Toledo Bend at 10.5’ below normal the bass are not located in the exact same cover, in the exact same transient areas, on the exact same breaks & breakline because those areas a bone dry. The bass however are still on the exact same pieces of structure as they were when the water level was normal.

Gatorbassman reply :

Your right Catt, History should never be ignored. It should be used as much as is needed but rarely relied upon as the only thing needed.

Bass are live creatures and there is only one guarantee. They are gonna do whatever they want to do and we can't do anything about it.

J Francho reply :

I'll have fished more than 25 lakes this year, some little ones, some huge. Most, I don't get to fish but once or twice a year. If I fish in the past, it might not even be close to relevant to that day on the water. Erie is a good example - I've only fished there half a dozen times in my life. I prefished on Saturday, and found fish in two spots I chose to explore. Keep in mind, those spots are each over a thousand acres. Yeah, you want to talk about structure? This is in the middle of nowhere. If you are lucky, there is a shipping lane buoy,LOL. By Sunday, the exact pattern I used the day before was still producing, but the fish had shrunk. With a cold front moving in, the larger fish were deeper, at the base of the structure, just barely active. Dinks were having a frenzy at the top. The average angler would take what he got at the top, which resulted in about 9 lb. limit in a half hour. While more difficult, the bigger fish action was slower, and presentation had to be perfect and precise to catch the bigger fish in deeper water, which resulted in a dominating tournament win. Had I fished the past, I would have failed. That's what it means not to fish the history. Adapt, or fail. It isn't ANYTHING different from what you are saying. And BTW, while it was tempting, I did not fish the spot I got my avatar last year. It was too far.

Catt reply :

Anacoco Lake

Bundick Lake

Calcasieu River

Lacassine Wildlife Refuge

Rockefeller National Wildlife Refuge

Sabine National Wildlife Refuge

Sabine River

Sam Rayburn

Toledo Bend

Toro Creek

Vernon Lake

That is a list of bodies of water I’ve fished this year and with the exception of Toledo Bend & Lacassine Wildlife Refuge I have not been on any of them in 10+ years. After making adjustment for seasonal patterns, weather conditions, ECT I located and caught bass on structure I have fished numerous times in the past. Sam Rayburn and Vernon Lake I had not been on since the mid-80s, I did however cheat on Rayburn fishing areas given to me by Jack (fishfordollars) Yates.

Jigfishn10 reply :

On 9/8/2011 at 6:40 PM, Catt said:

Anacoco Lake

Bundick Lake

Calcasieu River

Lacassine Wildlife Refuge

Rockefeller National Wildlife Refuge

Sabine National Wildlife Refuge

Sabine River

Sam Rayburn

Toledo Bend

Toro Creek

Vernon Lake

That is a list of bodies of water I’ve fished this year and with the exception of Toledo Bend & Lacassine Wildlife Refuge I have not been on any of them in 10+ years. After making adjustment for seasonal patterns, weather conditions, ECT I located and caught bass on structure I have fished numerous times in the past. Sam Rayburn and Vernon Lake I had not been on since the mid-80s, I did however cheat on Rayburn fishing areas given to me by Jack (fishfordollars) Yates.

That's not cheating, that's taking sound advice from a very good man.

Gatorbassman reply :

OK so who can pound their chest the hardest.

What we've learned here is that there is no right way to use past experiances to catch bass. The only person who is wrong is the one who totally disregards history.

J Francho reply :

That's not chest pounding you hear, Gene. It's my head pounding against the wall trying to tell Catt he is saying the same thing. :lol:

Catt reply :

Gene, what we have here is 32 e-mails from young anglers sent to me applauding these types of discussions for how much they teach and how they would feel dumb asking these types of questions.

I know sometimes I lead y’all on but it usually to get both sides of a point of view out in the open so the inexperienced angler can become better informed. I understand completely what you are saying and told every member who sent an e-mail the reasoning behind what you are saying and why that is so important.

Y’all cannot imagine the number of e-mail I get stating these kinds of discussion do more for teaching than who has the “best” rod, reel, lure, line ect.

So for picking on you Gene & J Francho

Gatorbassman reply :

Catt, I knew what you were doing and I enjoyed the teaching side of it but it was started to get the feel of chest pounding.

Nitrofreak reply :

I for one enjoy the occasional "Bickering" posts that are put up here by some of you, As Catt stated it opens our minds to new ways of seeing other pionts of view and with the amount of info supplied by these type of posts has tremendously helped me not only on the water but also in life and I for one can not thank you all enough for going through the motions of really driving the point you make home.

Thank you all very much!!!

J Francho reply :

Quote
Y’all cannot imagine the number of e-mail I get stating these kinds of discussion do more for teaching than who has the “best” rod, reel, lure, line ect.

Actually, I don't need to imagine. I just look at my inbox on the four forums I post on. :blink:

hookingem reply :

On 9/9/2011 at 3:39 AM, J Francho said:

Actually, I don't need to imagine. I just look at my inbox on the four forums I post on.

Big-O reply :

Thanks catt and Gene, nice topic And I'm glad it has been a positive for everyone. Also I agree that (excluding blind hog luck) our history or experience is ultimately responsible for consistant results!

If we have trained ourselves to be proficient at analyzing and working through certain types of challenges, regardless of the challenge that is before us, our past training or abilities are ultimately responsible for our successful results. If the challlenge is more difficult than we expect, but we have the persistance to work it through it with whatever abilities and proficiency we've acheived from past experiences, in due time we'll be successful. Without our past training or understanding, we will be much less ept at completing such a challenge on a timely basis that we feel is acceptable. Also without such a new challenge, we can never aquire more knowledge and experience. That's Fishing!

To simplify this long dissertation into a more understandable example...

If Spring transitioned to Winter and failed to allow the Summer season to have it's rightful place in History... "History tells me that I need to put my coat on"

Big O

www.ragetail.com

WRB reply :

This site covers bass fishing from coast to coast and we sometimes forget that fact. Bass are bass, however not all bass are largemouth.

Lakes are lakes, not all lakes are reseviors.

Time changes what we know or thought we knew. If we could go back and fish yesterday with what we know today, would we catch more or bigger bass? That is exatly what fishing memories or history is, going back and hoping to do better.

Sometimes it works, most the time it doesn't.

Example; Lake Havasu on the CA / AZ border. Deep canyon reservior on the Colorado river system. The 50 years I have fished this lake, it has changed from a largemouth fishery to a mixed largemouth and smallmouth fishery. The largemouth now are mostly located in the north end and smallmouth mid lake towards the dam south end. Fish for largemouth where you did 5 years ago and you will be blanked, however fish for smallmouth and catch 20+ lbs 5 bass limits. You need to know how to catch smallies at Havasu today.

Most of the local lakes I fish have silted in with 50' of sand and silt, the outside structure is gone in the upper 1/3rd of some of these lakes today and a waste of time trying to located where the breaks used to be.

GPS has had a major impact fishing outside isolated structures on big lakes, 5 years ago few bass anglers ventured off shore, today it's common. Time changes how we fish and where the fish are located.

Tom

scrutch reply :

I AM that inexperienced angler. I AM that guy reading this post and trying to absorb the years of knowledge being spilled out in this thread. This -to me- is invaluable in trying to figure out HOW to put "the puzzle" together each time out.

I believe that experience is totally irreplaceable when it comes to fishing.

J Francho... you argued that "the average angler would have taken what he got at the top" and "Had I fished the past I would have failed" I would like to point out that it was "your past" or your experience that told you to fish deeper for the larger fish. BECAUSE you were experienced enough to step back in that situation and add that last piece of the puzzle --the cold front-- to your equation. If that were me on that structure I would have been doing cartwheels in the boat because I was killin 'em.

Point is...experience is what everyone relies on to COMPLETE the puzzle more often. As BIG O says "consistency".

Whether it's NEW water, old spots, deeper, shallower, whatever.

It's no accident that the best fishermen are the ones that have been doing this a very long time.

I think we all are saying the same thing, several different ways.

Thanks guys for a great thread.

Randall reply :

I think sometimes the best examples or answers to problems or questions are experiences or stories from your past. Lake Varner used to be a lake with pondweed as the dominant vegetation. It had both threadfin shad and gizzard shad up till around 2007. I knew the lake well and had no problem catching fish there.

Then we hit a couple years with very cold winters, drought, and a huge amount of three and four pound hybrids that totaly wiped out the threadfin shad population. On top of that hydrilla started growing and really changed the lake.

With all these changes in the lake a lot of people kept fishing the lake and spots they had always caught fish on for 10-15 years but couldn't figure out why they weren't catching fish there anymore. They just kept fishing the same ways and same spots and complaining. Because I had fished other lakes that were more like what Varner was becoming I knew I had to change the way I fished the lake and did so. I still go out to Lake Varner and see the same guys fishing what worked 10 years ago and still complaining. Both the people fishing the way that used to work and myself used our history to decide where and how to fish. The only thing they were/are missing is the WHY.

Well what was the why that changed? Threadfin shad are more of a deepwater pelagic type fish where gizzard shad after they reach a larger size feed more on the bottom and relate more to shallow areas creeks and flats. Growth rates and adult sizes are different as well. After the threadfin shad were gone alot of steep deepwater banks and points that used to hold fish didn't hold fish or a many fish anymore. If there were fish there they were tough to catch. There just wasn't enough deepwater schools of shad roaming over and off those points anymore to hold the fish that used to live there. Then the hydrilla spread and made some the shallower areas of the lake that never held many fish more productive while choking out some other areas that used to be good. The grass created structure in some spots where there was none before and moved or scattered fish that used to stack up somewhere else.

I used my "History" of fishing other lakes as well as that lake and was able to draw from my past experiences to adjust and find new or different spots and ways to fish. The people using the "History" of only a few locations and techniques on that lake that worked in the past are still wondering what happened because they are missing what changed and never understood WHY the fish were there and they were catching them in the first place.

Catt reply :

Gene, please accept my humblest apologue there was no malice intended, you just put up the right post at the wrong time and I’m truly sorry.

I’m just not the kind of person to let questions go unasked and if I burse someone’s elbow in the process I’m sorry.

Gatorbassman reply :

Catt, There are no hard feelings at all. There never were. That's why I jumped right in. Then I thought I saw this thread going in the wrong direction. I might have jumped the gun a little.

grimlin reply :

On 9/9/2011 at 3:29 AM, Nitrofreak said:

I for one enjoy the occasional "Bickering" posts that are put up here by some of you, As Catt stated it opens our minds to new ways of seeing other pionts of view and with the amount of info supplied by these type of posts has tremendously helped me not only on the water but also in life and I for one can not thank you all enough for going through the motions of really driving the point you make home.

Thank you all very much!!!

In many ways me too....I just sit back and absorb all the information...LOL

Dwight Hottle reply :

Catt, Keep em coming. We all enjoy going to school.

J Francho reply :

Quote
J Francho... you argued that "the average angler would have taken what he got at the top" and "Had I fished the past I would have failed" I would like to point out that it was "your past" or your experience that told you to fish deeper for the larger fish. BECAUSE you were experienced enough to step back in that situation and add that last piece of the puzzle --the cold front-- to your equation. If that were me on that structure I would have been doing cartwheels in the boat because I was killin 'em.

That wasn't a cold front. The warm air over the lake won the battle, LOL.

Yes, I drew from my experience. That's not what we mean by fishing in the past. Some people fish spots. you hear it at the ramp. "They were in that weedline all last week, today not a bite." Fishing in the past.

scrutch reply :

On 9/9/2011 at 9:49 PM, J Francho said:

That wasn't a cold front. The warm air over the lake won the battle, LOL.

Yes, I drew from my experience. That's not what we mean by fishing in the past. Some people fish spots. you hear it at the ramp. "They were in that weedline all last week, today not a bite." Fishing in the past.

Pardon my ignorance J. I'm still on the upswing of the learning curve. So are you thinking when you hear those type of comments at the ramp, "I knew that already." Or would you have tried the weedline for a few minutes and realized they weren't there.

J Francho reply :

Good question. If it's midsummer in that example, then I'm staying close to the weeds, or slowing down immensely. Those fish didn't move far, if at all.

Gatorbassman reply :

On 9/10/2011 at 7:57 AM, J Francho said:

Good question. If it's midsummer in that example, then I'm staying close to the weeds, or slowing down immensely. Those fish didn't move far, if at all.

If it's fall then I'm staying close to the weeds too. But if I figure that the bite is shut down I'm going to grab a shallow flat crankbait and set the boat so I can make parrallel casts along the grass. Then I'm going to tweek line tie on the crank a bit so it runs into the weeds and gets hung. Then I'm going to rip it out of the weeds and do it again. Working the weed line hard.

J Francho reply :

Nice info. Up here, in fall the weeds die. Where there are decaying weeds, there usually isn't too much O2, so I avoid those areas. But, find healthy weeds, and you might out fish the structure guys. There's a case of geographic patterns being totally different.

Gatorbassman reply :

Yea, Our weeds don't die untill late November. October is speed fishing time. Burn along the outside weed line till you catch a fish and then slow down and catch the rest of them with a Spro frog on mats or a fluke if the weeds are submerged.

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