Live VS Artificial... State, Local, Club, Re 2024
Bassnajr reply :
Hey all...
I liked the banter on the Forum regarding bass size comparision by State. Here's a question for all...
Should State, Local, or Club records be broken down between live and artificial lures or baits? As most of us know, from the BIG tournaments to the local tournaments it's artificial ONLY. In this day of stats, records, and big time money riding on the fact that "SIZE MATTERS!!!" does the type of bait matter and should there be an asterik next to some records??
Ideas, opinions, dsicussions???
bassinajr
Evan Pease reply :
There should be something because its easy to throw a minnow somewhere and catch a good fish.
Tin reply :
Keep records seperate or do what some areas of Canada are doing and saying no more live bait because of invasive species and such.
roadwarrior reply :
QuoteThere should be something because its easy to throw a minnow somewhere and catch a good fish.
Really?
I see a lot of people fishing live bait and catching little bitty fish, but I do know a few guys that catch some pretty good ones on live bait.
<------------------------------------ :
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
QuoteQuoteThere should be something because its easy to throw a minnow somewhere and catch a good fish.Really?
I see a lot of people fishing live bait and catching little bitty fish, but I do know a few guys that catch some pretty good ones on live bait.
<------------------------------------ :
You bagged yourself, we all thought you EARNED those : DOH
I think they should be separate. You drop a shiner in our lake and you will witness a disappearing act. When Erics kids were younger, we showed up w/ a dozen. (for Nick to play with if he wasn't into fishing,lol) 12 baits, 12 drops, 12 fish, 3 over 4 lbs. We felt guilty. We spent the rest of the day teaching Nick how to cast and he actually had more fun doing that.
Our state record has been broken twice since I got into the game. Both times, by trout fisherman on opening day, using live bait. A meal worm is responsible for our current state record and that's just plain embarrassing.
Tin reply :
Ya, but a 10 lbs 6 ounce fish on a meal worm, out of CARBUNCLE just doesnt make since. (cough) Scituate Res (cough, cough)
MALTESE FALCON reply :
This subject always makes me laugh. So many people think just because you drop a shiner over the side of the boat you're going to catch a big fish. I must admit, some of my biggest smallies have come on large shiners, however can I tell you how many 10" bass took a 4"-5" shiner, or how many times I've been skunked using live bait? 95% of my fishing is done with artificial bait, however when my Baja leaves my seawall, I'm out to catch fish, if it takes live bait to catch them, so be it.
Just my opinion,
Falcon
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
When it comes to the salty critters, I've used live bait that was bigger than my PB Largemouth Nothing beats a baby lobster though. Saltwater is different to me, it's about getting paid. Bigger fish, more fish= more $. In freshwater, it's much more about the angling ability and the prestige of tricking a pressured, smart trophy into biting. The guy that figures that out is the one who should be in the book IMO.
Our lake is just nuts with live bait. It can get boring. I think live bait catches ALL the fish, not just the big ones but I know if I hit a state record (which is the actual topic here), and I caught it on a shiner, I wouldn't be so boastful of it. I would prepare to get my chops busted for the next 15 yrs,lol. Not saying I wouldn't be proud of the catch but I would take a lot less credit than if I caught it in late November on a finesse worm,...or even better,..a fly rod.
I think (freshwater) live bait has it's place and it isn't in a record book. I feel it's great for getting people into the sport and for father/son trips a few times a yr but as a gauge of a person's angling ability,....not so much.
To say you can still get skunked using live bait is a cop out to me. I would bet a pro (High angling ability) could show up and put at least one in the boat on the same day. Add angling ability to live bait and that's a dangerous dude right there.
Tin reply :
First off Fishing in freshwater with live bait vs. fishing saltwater with live bait is just completely different. If you were to throw live bait into competitive bass fishing it would be impossible to differenciate a good angler from a lucky angler because I dont thing anyone would be consistant. You wouldnt have tourneys won on patterns it would be more about spot fishing and someone getting lucky. imo
roadwarrior reply :
QuoteFirst off Fishing in freshwater with live bait vs. fishing saltwater with live bait is just completely different. If you were to throw live bait into competitive bass fishing it would be impossible to differenciate a good angler from a lucky angler because I dont thing anyone would be consistant. You wouldnt have tourneys won on patterns it would be more about spot fishing and someone getting lucky. imo
I can understand why it would seem like that to people who never use live bait, but that is not the case.
As Rick Clunn has often stated, "Catching fish is easy, it's finding them that's the challenge."
Bass, or any fish for that matter, may be more interested in live bait than an artificial, but that
doesn't mean they will strike. As a matter-of-fact, bass is a neutral or inactive state are sometimes
LESS likely to chase a minnow than stike an artificial lure as they might in a defensive move or
when protecting territory.
Being successful, if you define that by chatching BIG bass, is still a matter
of locating the fish and presentation. The bite is the "event", but even then
landing the fish can still be an adventure. The mental picture of catching
bluegill on worms is an entirely different activity.
Raul reply :
QuoteHey all...I liked the banter on the Forum regarding bass size comparision by State. Here's a question for all...
Should State, Local, or Club records be broken down between live and artificial lures or baits? As most of us know, from the BIG tournaments to the local tournaments it's artificial ONLY. In this day of stats, records, and big time money riding on the fact that "SIZE MATTERS!!!" does the type of bait matter and should there be an asterik next to some records??
Ideas, opinions, dsicussions???
bassinajr
For starters they should seprate state, nation and international records for LMB between Florida strain and Northern strain. I find completely unfair for the people that aspire to break the LMB record when they have no opportunity to do so because Florida strain doesn 't live in their waters.
iminsanenutz reply :
QuoteQuoteHey all...I liked the banter on the Forum regarding bass size comparision by State. Here's a question for all...
Should State, Local, or Club records be broken down between live and artificial lures or baits? As most of us know, from the BIG tournaments to the local tournaments it's artificial ONLY. In this day of stats, records, and big time money riding on the fact that "SIZE MATTERS!!!" does the type of bait matter and should there be an asterik next to some records??
Ideas, opinions, dsicussions???
bassinajr
excelent point!!!
For starters they should seprate state, nation and international records for LMB between Florida strain and Northern strain. I find completely unfair for the people that aspire to break the LMB record when they have no opportunity to do so because Florida strain doesn 't live in their waters.
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
Maybe it's just our lake but if I challenged one of my fishing partners to a $500 event, me against him with my boat using live bait, I would put the same $500 down that I won't have any takers.
But this is besides the point, the topic is "should live bait catches be listed separately" and I vote a big fat YES
Tin reply :
RW-The point I was trying make...
About consistancy in fishing: Sometimes all the fish will hit are 3 inch shad and if you cant give them exactly that you are not going to get them as well. So who will win? The angler using live bait.
But if the fish are scattered and not feeding who will catch them? The guy using artificials going for reaction bites and covering water.
So if there where tournaments where both live bait and artificials are involved there is no way of showing who is a better angler in the course of a year because neither angler will be consistant.
About patterns:
Now I'm sure you have lakes at home where everyone knows the hot spots and its not so much about finding the fish but about how to make them to bite. You can make the fish hit because of a reaction or out of finesse. And you figure this out through a varity of trial and error until you figure it out. Once you do you find more spots like that one and do the same thing, thus getting on a good pattern. Now how can a live bait fisherman learn this when he is on the water and change to catch the fish? He cant.
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
QuoteRW-The point I was trying make...About consistancy in fishing: Sometimes all the fish will hit are 3 inch shad and if you cant give them exactly that you are not going to get them as well. So who will win? The angler using live bait.
But if the fish are scattered and not feeding who will catch them? The guy using artificials going for reaction bites and covering water.
So if there where tournaments where both live bait and artificials are involved there is no way of showing who is a better angler in the course of a year because neither angler will be consistant.
About patterns:
Now I'm sure you have lakes at home where everyone knows the hot spots and its not so much about finding the fish but about how to make them to bite. You can make the fish hit because of a reaction or out of finesse. And you figure this out through a varity of trial and error until you figure it out. Once you do you find more spots like that one and do the same thing, thus getting on a good pattern. Now how can a live bait fisherman learn this when he is on the water and change to catch the fish? He cant.
What you are saying makes sense Tin but it is all theoretical. Anyone , even the kid on the shore with a rooster tail and a worm on the back treble can win. His odds aren't the highest but theoretically, anything is possible.
RW is saying live bait or artificial, you still need to know where the big fish live.
But even still, this isnt a "bait" vs "lure" thread, the question is in regards to a record qualification.
roadwarrior reply :
Back on topic...
The statutes generally read "Any fish that is legally taken can be submitted for certification."
That is also the position of the IGFA.
I'm good with that, I think the rules should stand as they are.
George Welcome reply :
"12 baits, 12 drops, 12 fish, 3 over 4 lbs. "
Amazing: that's a better hook-up ratio than just about anyone in the world.
"You wouldnt have tourneys won on patterns it would be more about spot fishing and someone getting lucky. imo"
And you think fishing with lures is different?
I would challenge anyone to the following: We go where you tell me to go with shiners and count the fish and then you go where I tell you to go and count the fish. Any guesses on where the most will be caught and their sizes?
Read my website: it says "artificial preferred", but that in no way a denigration of any anglers abilities whether using live bait or artificial bait.
As for separating IGFA records - They already do it with a vast array for the same fish, of the same size, and method caught.
Now I am on my way to prep for a day of artificial fishing with a Dad and his Daughter.
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
GW- That was my last experience with them on our lake, what can I say? lol This was back a few yrs before they dropped the dam but still, in roughly 1 hr, we were out of shiners and moved on to artificials, which, believe it or not, Nick was "into" more. He likes to cast.
Haven't seen the need to buy bait after that. Maybe I should try again this yr. If I do, I'll have it all on video for the nay-sayers ;D 
guest reply :
From the first time I landed a LMB on a Rapala I have been hooked on artificials. I still spend days on the water with bait.Why? It's fun and there is challange to it!
This year I got to fish with a friend who uses a simple rig on the Leigh River for smallies. Spinning set up, with a #1 Aberdeen (light wire hook) nightcrawlers and a small piece of split shot, What a way to fish for smallies!
Sometimes I want macaroni, sometimes some steak and sometimes a penut butter and jelly sandwhich, on the right day they all satisfy. Same with bait and artficials, that does not disqualify me as a fisherman in any way, and in the words of Billy Holiday 'TAINT NOBODY'S BUSINESS BUT MY OWN"
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
QuoteFrom the first time I landed a LMB on a Rapala I have been hooked on artificials. I still spend days on the water with bait.Why? It's fun and there is challange to it!This year I got to fish with a friend who uses a simple rig on the Leigh River for smallies. Spinning set up, with a #1 Aberdeen (light wire hook) nightcrawlers and a small piece of split shot, What a way to fish for smallies!
Sometimes I want macaroni, sometimes some steak and sometimes a penut butter and jelly sandwhich, on the right day they all satisfy. Same with bait and artficials, that does not disqualify me as a fisherman in any way, and in the words of Billy Holiday 'TAINT NOBODY'S BUSINESS BUT MY OWN"
Again, the topic is "should live bait qualify for records" not "live bait-right or wrong"
Tokyo Tony reply :
Records are which person caught the biggest fish of a certain species, regardless of how they did it (beyond the obvious, i.e. rod and reel, not M-80s). World/state records should only take that into consideration. Of course, there should be further classifications, such as line strength and artificial/live bait, but as far as a single record fish goes, if it was caught on live bait, there should not be an asterisk saying, "Record fish, BUT it was caught on live bait." Maybe if it was caught on an artificial there should be one saying, "AND it was impressively caught on an artificial." Either way, a record fish is a record fish, regardless of how it was caught, so yes. I believe fish caught on live bait should qualify for records.
guest reply :
QuoteQuoteFrom the first time I landed a LMB on a Rapala I have been hooked on artificials. I still spend days on the water with bait.Why? It's fun and there is challange to it!This year I got to fish with a friend who uses a simple rig on the Leigh River for smallies. Spinning set up, with a #1 Aberdeen (light wire hook) nightcrawlers and a small piece of split shot, What a way to fish for smallies!
Sometimes I want macaroni, sometimes some steak and sometimes a penut butter and jelly sandwhich, on the right day they all satisfy. Same with bait and artficials, that does not disqualify me as a fisherman in any way, and in the words of Billy Holiday 'TAINT NOBODY'S BUSINESS BUT MY OWN"
Again, the topic is "should live bait qualify for records" not "live bait-right or wrong"
Sorry:And If I catch the state record with either a Rapala or a Nightcrawler It's still a state record. You can throw live bait in a lot of places and catch fish. You can also learn a lake and a river for instance on one bank of Mauch Chunk it is by the camp grounds and beach, so a lot of run off. From fishing there I know during and after a rain storm a lot of crawlers get wahed in. So plastic worms and crawelrs do the trick, But there is some submerged structure, a sunken boat and a few boulders that hold bigger fish than right at the shore line, In my eyes as long as I find the biggest fish and I hook em leagally and it's a record nmakes no difference, because a lot more went into it than just slinging a minnow or a crawler anywhere and waiting for the bobber to go down.
Tin reply :
Nice point, about heavy rain and crawlers, never put those two together before. And I didnt try to make a stereotype or anything about people using livebait and watching a bobber go down or that they or not as good as anglers who fish artificials. Sorry if I got under anyones skin on that.
guest reply :
QuoteNice point, about heavy rain and crawlers, never put those two together before. And I didnt try to make a stereotype or anything about people using livebait and watching a bobber go down or that they or not as good as anglers who fish artificials. Sorry if I got under anyones skin on that.
NOT AT ALL TIN2WIN, It's that skinny guy with the red boat you work and fish with. I didn't make my self clear enough so i had to spell it out, What's he gonna be like when he gets to be my age?
Tin reply :
Ya he is skinny and I'm big, side by side we look like the number 10. : ;D
LCpointerKILLA reply :
the world record, and so called world record bass were caught on artificial. but this may be because artificial is used more?
roadwarrior reply :
Quote"12 baits, 12 drops, 12 fish, 3 over 4 lbs. "Amazing: that's a better hook-up ratio than just about anyone in the world.
"You wouldnt have tourneys won on patterns it would be more about spot fishing and someone getting lucky. imo"
And you think fishing with lures is different?
I would challenge anyone to the following: We go where you tell me to go with shiners and count the fish and then you go where I tell you to go and count the fish. Any guesses on where the most will be caught and their sizes?
Read my website: it says "artificial preferred", but that in no way a denigration of any anglers abilities whether using live bait or artificial bait.
As for separating IGFA records - They already do it with a vast array for the same fish, of the same size, and method caught.
Now I am on my way to prep for a day of artificial fishing with a Dad and his Daughter.
Well George,
When I get down to Stick Marsh/ Farm13, I'll show ya where the big fish are. :
Great post.
8-)
bass109 reply :
Great point George, the world record largemouth bass was caught on a crankbait. Shiners are still the best tropy livebait. Some lunkers dont even like bluegill.
Fish Chris reply :
it's like LBH is always saying > it's all about the time and place <
I'd bet if bassinajr lived and fished in these parts, he would never have asked the question in the first place, as he would have seen how "artificial lures make it >easier< to catch these big trout-eaters.
IMPO, around here, if somebody gets a really big bass on live bait, yea', it should have an asterik beside it........ an asterik denoting that this catch is "extra special", with the angler having put in countless hours learning how to fish a live dad, or crawler correctly, then having the patience required to do so, while any goofball can catch a big one on a swimbait ;-) {I'm living proof ! :-)
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Here's some food for thought. I absolutely LOVE to fish live dads and crawlers, and I have spent litterally thousands of hours doing so. However, here is a list of my top five biggest for;
Live bait
12.6
13.0
13.2
13.2
14.1
Artificials
15.0
15.6
15.8
16.5
18.4
And BTW, my 6th, through 9th biggest bass, were also caught on artificials. IMPO this kinda' sucks. I wish I had a few closer options where live bait was the best choice for the biggest bass. I just love crawling that live dad through the rocks when.... tick, tick, tick {the crawdad gets scared and freaks out :-)} then Whack ! Fish on ! ......plus they fight so much harder on a dad, as the dad leaves the picture, as soon as you set the hook. Then the bass has nothing to get in the way of its fight ! You had better have that drag set, because now its just you and the fish ! Whooo Hooo ! I love it :-)
Now with a swimbait..... okay, well that's fun too. But if the fish is stuck good.... even a BIG one will be in my hand in less that 1 minute. Don't get me wrong, I'm always happy to have stuck a big fish, but in my own mind, I know it would have been a bigger accomplishment to have done it on a live dad, or a crawler.
This is what I have learned in my last 10 years, and close to 10,000 hours specifically chasing trophy bass. (I've actually fished closer to 14,000 hours in the last 10 years..... but remember, I do the multi-species thing too).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh...... Should live bait count for records ? HECK YES ! .....and in some cases, it should probably count even more so, than artificial lures.
Peace,
Fish
Fish Chris reply :
I believe that big, wild Shiners are the best trophy bass bait "in Florida"...... But since the biggest bass on the planet live in Cali, I'd have to say the best bait (easiest to catch a big one on) would be a swimbait, specifically a Huddleston #12, in regular trout pattern..... with my custom rigging, of course ;-)
Peace,
Fish
bass109 reply :
thanks for the tips champ, 8-)
1.shiners are best live bait
2. nightcrawlers fished along the bottom
3. live dads fished along the bottom
4.bluegill,eel,crappie,warmouth,bullhead,bird,mice,bowfin,snakehead,snakes,ect
My trophy largemouth bass was caught on nightcrawlers along the bottom but i seen the fish come out of cover, near the top of water to smash shiners. Golden Scales flying everywhere like glitter. I suggest using Octopus style hooks for live bait. I used a ocean octopus style hook with 40 lb mono to musle the fish out of cover. I think live dads are third on the list because they also catch alot of catfish in the process. I know you'll catch that 40 lb striper Champ. 8-)
Bassnajr reply :
In re:
"I'd bet if bassinajr lived and fished in these parts, he would never have asked the question in the first place, as he would have seen how "artificial lures make it >easier< to catch these big trout-eaters.
IMPO, around here, if somebody gets a really big bass on live bait, yea', it should have an asterik beside it........ an asterik denoting that this catch is "extra special", with the angler having put in countless hours learning how to fish a live dad, or crawler correctly, then having the patience required to do so, while any goofball can catch a big one on a swimbait {I'm living proof ! "
Chris,
I asked this question for one reason: stimulating conversation among board members. Little did I know the opinions would be so varied and interesting!! That is exactly why I joined this forum as oppsed to others. I learn a little more every time I log on here.
Although I am recently back into bass fishing after 15 years or so, I have fished since I was young. I have used every bait known to man, live and artificial. I speak honestly when I say I am impressed at the fish on your posting and your experience. I would use a peanut butter and jelly sandwich if I thought I could catch a bass like that!!!!
In RI the record is 10 lbs, change so everthing is relative I guess. I will venture to the "Bass capitals of the country" as soon as humanly possible and $$$$ allows.
Thanks to you and all who weighed in on this topic!!
bassinajr
Fish Chris reply :
just one more thing I should add;
Most of our biggest bass out here are trout eaters, and since live trout are highly illegal as bait, this is why trout patterned swimbaits are our lure of choice. I guess if trout were legal, they would probably work even better for our big bass, than a swimbait would..... Just as live wild Shiners work best for Florida bass.
Peace,
Fish
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
Well, that covers Cali and Florida , but what about New England?? We need some help, we have our own way to hunt a trophy,....we throw snow balls at 'em
=Matt 5.0= reply :
QuoteI would use a peanut butter and jelly sandwich if I thought I could catch a bass like that!!!!
bassinajr
So would I ........
Now those Terminator finesse jigs in PB&J look awfully tempting all of a sudden.
Tin reply :
Speaking of Peanut Butter Jelly and RI
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-hkGR_8DeDM
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
Uh-oh,....Idea for '09 video segment noted to self.
Matt--Dirk,Tin and I will have to give you the pb&J dance every time you hit one with that jig, deal? ;D
Tin reply :
Seeing as though Matt is tall and skinny, I nominate him to wear the banana suit. Plus I dont want to get mauled by banana breath.
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