Frankly, I am a bit upset 2024
Johnnythunderbass reply :
A few days ago I posted a request for people to come to my website and sign up for my email tips. They would then get an email with a link to where they could go and download my free report on frog fishing. I guess it confused a few people who looked around my website for the book. That is my fault I should have been more clear. I have posted a link down below in my profile where you can go and view the e- book without having to go to my website or signing up for my email. The link is located below and is hosted as a pdf by a very reputable hosting service. It should pop up on your computer as soon as you go to the link so you do not have to download anything. I hope someone will improve their fishing because of it.
Now to another matter. Frankly I am a bit hurt by most of the comments that were posted. I understand that there are a lot of people that simply enjoy criticizing everything that they see on a forum like this one but I think it was overkill. I asked for feedback on my free report, not on my website. If you do not like my website that is fine. I do think some of the comments made show a lack of understanding of what I was trying to say. One person claimed I was taking a shot at Bill Dance because on my website it says And no I did not catch them out of a stocked pond like Bill Dance does on his fishing show. This is not a shot at Bill Dance. If anyone can think back to when they first started fishing, they watched Bill Dance pull one huge fish after another huge fish out of the water. I have talked to many anglers that wondered where he caught all those fish and who were quite frustrated that they could never come close to being as good as he was. I thought it was always a comfort to tell people that Bill was fishing in managed waters where it is easier to catch several bass over four pounds in a day. I still think he is probably the greatest bass fisherman ever just like everyone else on this website and believe Mr. Dance could catch just as many fish on any public lake from Lake Erie to Toledo Bend and has done so for the last 35 + years. People obviously do not understand where I was coming from with a bit of humor.
There was also other comments that where disrespectful to say the least. Some where even not true. One person said there was videos on every major technique by pros and there is nothing I could teach him. He apparently speaks before he checks his facts. I went to Bass Pro Shops and other places to search for Frog fishing videos and could not find any. If you think you are a better fisherman than me that is fine, you probably are but I do not need you to tell me that. I drive a ford truck but I do not stop at a chevy dealer every day and tell him his product is inferior, even though I never bothered to test drive one.
Also someone complained about me being allowed to advertise on this fine website and it was actually said I bring down the reputation for the website. This was a cheap shot. If this person was on my e-mail list and read my e-mails then he could say that my tips were no good that would be fine, but he does not know me, nor has he ever contacted me nor has he bought one of my products. If he had bought one of my products and thought it was complete junk he is well within his rights to tell everyone on the forum that it is no good and let everyone know why he thinks it is no good. Then if he wants to tell everyone not to buy it, go ahead . If he wants to do it thats fine by me, but do not speak like you are a expert on me just because you were on my website for two minutes.
As for all of those complaining about my advertising style or my grammar I am glad you are upset. I do not tell you how to run your website and I did not ask for your opinion about my website I only asked for your opinion on my e book/report. If you want to complain please follow the instructions and complain about my report like you are supposed to.
I do not mean to be offensive with this post I just wanted to let people know I thought I was getting treated a little bit worse than I should. Pro Bass fisherman are some of the very best people you will ever meet they are kind and very humble. I guess I kind of just expected the same from everyone here and was a little let down thats all.
Thank you for your time. I hope everyone Catches there biggest HogBass ever this season
B-Ass-Mad reply :
Just ignore the morons, I found the link okay. Keep up the good work.
RobbyZ5001 reply :
I am glad you said something. I thought about the comments the same exact way you did when I read some of the posts. The one thing I learned about 2 weeks in on this forum (only forum I have ever been a part of for more then a day) is that people REALLY jump the gun and say what they first think. I believe part of this is because it is on the internet and they don't need to say it to a person's face. It is very easy to hit the post button! I know I have done it before and actually deleted multiple posts because I realized I crossed the line with the comment I made. To tell you the truth I was intrigued by your site. I personally didn't notice the grammar errors... I am not perfect either. I think you have a good concept and I look forward to receiving your emails with advice on frogs. I know that someone would just make a website on something specific unless they know what they are talking about. If you want to blow smoke up peoples butts to make money you wouldn't be doing in on fishing frogs! So obviously you know something about it! Don't get frustrated with the comments. Stick around... Brent probably had it too in the beginning. His products proved their worth and he treats his customers amazing! If your product proves it's worth it will get respect! Hopefully it makes these guys believers.
Alpster reply :
I'm not sure I know how to respond to your post, because it looks to me, like you are going to take offense at anything that isn't what you want to hear. I usually avoid the inherent battles of wills and personalities that happen when 15,000 people express their opinions in a public forum.
I love Bass Resource and do everything I can to support it.
I was one of the first members to read your original post in the other thread and without any malice or influence by other posters, I immediately got the following impressions.
A. This is deceptive, (a huge pet peeve of mine, especially on the internet) I was 'asked to review' a free report about fishing techniques. At the linked website I learned that I had to "sign up". Nothing on the website, that I could find, would allow access to the report you asked me to review without spending money. Even if I am wrong about that, it's the impression that I got. Hence the website criticism from other posters, I believe.
B. Your introduction to this "truly amazing" community of bass fishermen came across like a "Ronco Pocket Fisherman" infomercial. There are some bass fishermen here that have forgotten more about fishing than most of us know and it wasn't a surprise to me that some of them were taken aback by your request.
C. It appeared to me (right or wrong) that for all intents and purposes you were interested in my money way more than my ability to fish.
I appreciate your wanting to participate on the board and support it as an advertiser, but you have to soften your approach. Get to know the members and gain their trust and they will go to the mat for you. They have done it for me many times.
I am risking getting kicked off the forums by antagonizing a sponsor, but I would much rather have you get off on the right foot and join the prosperity of the group than always be offended.
Try to remember that asking a question in a forum of many thousands of members is likely to bring you conflicting answers. It is the nature of the beast. Please don't be offended by those who don't agree with you, but don't dismiss them. This is the greatest group of people on the internet and they will show you that, if you try to connect with them. That has been my experience.
I am sorry that you were offended. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know. WELCOME to Bass Resource!
Ronnie
Bassin_Fin@tic reply :
Why is it that every couple days or a week there is a new repeated post on here entitled "topwater frogs" or something to the effect?? Well here are the answers!! There is nothing wrong with someone who wants to learn.
Call it a gimmick,but if you want to learn about frogs then this seems like an okay deal to me for 14.00. Or you could go to bass pro and get a flippin dvd or spinnerbaits for an average price of 19.99 or more :
I dont think he ever claimed that anyone who buys this will be banned from a tournament or that he can outfish live bait.
Ya there were a lot of spelling/grammer errors.Must have been in a hurry?? ;D 
Jeff C. reply :
Top Water Frogg-in Rocks..
Catt reply :
Frankly, I am a bit upset but I didn't respond in your original post.
I agree with Alpster, you asked us to review your book but ask us to buy for it first!
What's up with that?
Micro reply :
I read your post, followed your link, read your site, and saw the sign-up request. I decided your product wasn't for me. Simple. You understand that some people will feel that way and accept that. I also realize that your product will probably interest some people and you will receive their business. Good for you.
I am sorry that you were treated heavy handedly. Your product certainly isn't for everyone, but there isn't anything wrong with it, either. And the manner in which you present it is up to you.
Presumably, you are a BR advertiser in good standing. Glenn has reviewed your product and feels it comports nicely with the spirit of this site and has allowed you to advertise here. Good enough for me. I think it's in bad taste to openly harangue a sponsor of this site over an advertisement Glenn has deemed appropriate. If people had an issue with it, they should have PM'd you or Glenn.
I wish you you luck in your endeavor and hope you remain a sponsor of this fine site.
thetr20one reply :
I am still waiting to get a reply from a pm.
Glenn reply :
John,
I appreciate your candor, sense of humor, and willingness to listen. Above all, I appreciate your response.
I know some of the comments were rough around the edges. As you know, bass anglers can be very opinionated, which isn't bad. But combine it with "off the cuff" remarks, and it can come off as criticism.
I believe most people here are trying to help you. They are your prospective customers. Even though their comments are a bit harsh, they're telling you how to make your site - and business - more profitable.
I know it's hard to not take it personally - especially after spending hours and hours of hard work to create the site, let alone start a business. You're passionate about your products, and want everyone to feel as you do. So it's hard to listen to people who are less than enthusiastic about your hard efforts.
As the subsequent responses suggest, don't sweat the small stuff. Weed through the harsh remarks and you'll find nuggets of useful information that will help you succeed. And above all, understand that most people are indeed trying to help, even though it may not sound that way in a fishing forum.
Hope that helps. You know my phone number if you have questions/concerns.
Glenn
P.S. - Ronnie, nobody is at risk of being banned for trying to help somebody here.
Micro reply :
Are you waiting for a reply or an argument? Did you ask a legitimate question or did you PM an accusation or a rhetorical question? Are you truly interested in the product or are you 'testing him?" After the previous episode, I'd be a little gun shy, too
Big-O reply :
Johnny,
As you know, I too attempted to review your information and after failing to locate it, e-mailed you for further assistance to help in your request.
Not sure if any of the group actually found it as well and this could be the hang up or miss understanding. Possibly we saw your advertisement content only.
In the case that you wanted us to review your add content for comments as to what we thought of it, 1st impression, how effective and compelling for possible purchase, more info required, too short, too long etc., possibly that request was not understood or communicated completely.
In either case, I am not a marketing person, only a designer, but I am sure that everyone here at Bass Resource want the very best for you and your Company and if it is possible to communicate the need or request a bit more clearly the outcome will be positive for all of us.
Maybe start again with your request providing a bit more explanation on info desired and a great result will occur.
As a matter of fact, although I am old and worn from years of fishing, like many of us I am always eager to learn more about fishing technique and new ideas, so keep on coming up with them.
Big O
www.ragetail.com
Alpster reply :
QuoteJohnny,As you know, I too attempted to review your information and after failing to locate it, e-mailed you for further assistance to help in your request.
Not sure if any of the group actually found it as well and this could be the hang up or miss understanding. Possibly we saw your advertisement content only.
In the case that you wanted us to review your add content for comments as to what we thought of it, 1st impression, how effective and compelling for possible purchase, more info required, too short, too long etc., possibly that request was not understood or communicated completely.
In either case, I am not a marketing person, only a designer, but I am sure that everyone here at Bass Resource want the very best for you and your Company and if it is possible to communicate the need or request a bit more clearly the outcome will be positive for all of us.
Maybe start again with your request providing a bit more explanation on info desired and a great result will occur.
As a matter of fact, although I am old and worn from years of fishing, like many of us I am always eager to learn more about fishing technique and new ideas, so keep on coming up with them.
Big O
www.ragetail.com
Big O,
Thanks for saying it better than I did.
Ronnie
burleytog reply :
Upset at what? Criticism? :-X
Your initial thread, as well as your site, come across very very 'infomercial'-like. Which is to say that it will cause many to ignore, disregard, etc.
cart7t reply :
I finished reading your 17 page frog paper. This thing needs a lot of work before it's ready for sale. So does the website too.
What bothered me the most though, was this at the very end
Quote"John Torch is a world renowned fisherman..."
You are?
If you're going to try and entice consumers to purchase your video's you're going to have to do a better job upfront. A website and papers filled with grammatical and punctuation errors are not going to put money in your pocket. What it's telling me, the consumer, is that you didn't even bother to take the time to make sure your presentation was readable and presentable to the general public. It's creating a communication problem between you and me, the potential buyer and as the potential buyer, I have to wonder how good a video will be when the seller has done such a poor job of trying to sell it to me.
One other thing, it's pretty sad that this website is accepting this as a paying advertiser. While I don't have a dog in this hunt, it would seem that this site is a direct reflection of it's advertisers. By taking their money and allowing their advertisements in order for them to make a personal gain via sales through the sites membership, you are basically endorsing said advertiser.
Given how poorly presented both the website and frog paper was produced, maybe the management here should take a little more time in the screening process of it's endorsed advertisers before taking their money and sticking them out there as someone with a legitimate product to sell.
BadKarma42 reply :
:-X
senile1 reply :
QuoteI apologize for not reading the instructions thoroughly. I accessed the site and I let my feelings about it take over. It may be unfair to you and your product, John, but this style of advertising always makes me shy away. You know the saying, "If something sounds too good to be true, it usually is." However, I signed up anyway to check out your report. I'll let you know what I think.
Above is my statement from the other thread and I stand by it as constructive criticism. Even if it wasn't your intent, your advertisement is misleading as indicated by statements in Alpster's and Cart7's posts. This doesn't mean that the information in your frogging essay is incorrect. It does mean that when people see misleading advertising many won't even read your essay. You're shooting yourself in the foot.
I read the frogging report. I think the information is good. Constructive criticisms are to have someone edit your copy and make sure it is correct and change your style of advertising. Otherwise, it won't matter if you are providing good information or not, because many people will be turned off before they read it.
Zel... reply :
I read your original post early on, and looked for the PDF file you mentioned we would find on your website catchlargemouthbass.com. I too was skeptical at first. You are correct when you stated the confusion was your fault, and that you should have been clearer about the process. Alpster posted a very good summary of what a lot of us felt. And thanks Johnny for clarifying the situation. I will now consider your request in a new light.
But from a marketing viewpoint, I chuckle a little at your post about being upset. As an individual, I can understand you were hurt. But from a business standpoint, the old axiom of any publicity is good publicity is often right on. Between your two posts on your product, you have 1,343 views (at the current time) here at BassResouce. How many views do you think you would you have gotten without all the controversy?
Good luck on your product. Use some of the comments you have received here, both good and bad, to improve your offering.
And oh yeah welcome!
Bassnajr reply :
WOW!!!!
There are no flies on the members of BassResource.com, and if there are, they are paying rent!!! Ya can't slip anything by these folks and I think that shows.
IMO, when you put yourself out in the public, especially SELLING a product, you need to expect to be "questioned" for lack of a better word. The better the product and presentation, the less criticisim. It appears that someone with an idea rushed the project, for moneys sake????
Good luck in the future....I grew up frogging and love the style!!!
Peace all!!!!
ajr
roadwarrior reply :
QuoteI read your original post early on, and looked for the PDF file you mentioned we would find on your website catchlargemouthbass.com. I too was skeptical at first. You are correct when you stated the confusion was your fault, and that you should have been clearer about the process. Alpster posted a very good summary of what a lot of us felt. And thanks Johnny for clarifying the situation. I will now consider your request in a new light.But from a marketing viewpoint, I chuckle a little at your post about being upset. As an individual, I can understand you were hurt. But from a business standpoint, the old axiom of any publicity is good publicity is often right on. Between your two posts on your product, you have 1,343 views (at the current time) here at BassResouce. How many views do you think you would you have gotten without all the controversy?
Good luck on your product. Use some of the comments you have received here, both good and bad, to improve your offering.
And oh yeah welcome!
Zel,
Your insight and response is refreshing.
Precise, pointed, tactful and hopefully, helpful.
Thank you!
8-)
Brian_Reeves reply :
I'm still confused what all the fuss is about. You wanted reviews and you got them. Yeah, some weren't for what you intended, but that's business. Just imagine how Gary Yamamoto would feel if he heard Russ, Brent, and me say that Trick Sticks are better than Senkos...a product that he spent years developing...or so the story goes. ;D
Some criticism is constructive. Most is not. You have got to have thick skin, especially if you are going to make the claims that you are making to the crowd that you are making them to. After seeing that Alpster and Catt got upset and involved as much as they did, I wanted to see what was up. Claiming that your products can make this season better than last for me is one hell of a claim. For some, I'm sure it's true.
powerman970 reply :
First of all, if you were offended or had your feelings hurt by my comments, then I am sorry that you feel that way. I am not, however, sorry for giving an honest opinion of your site. You asked for it and you got it. No, I did not give my opinion of your E-book because it was impossible to access. At that point the only thing I had to go on was your site in general. I am a business owner and there is no way that I would represent my company with a website that was so poorly designed and full of grammatical and spelling errors. That is not a shot at you. It is an observation. I have not heard anyone on here criticize your product, only your presentation. The best piece of advice that I could give you would be to remember that you only get one chance to make a first impression. You have the right to market your business as you see fit and I wish you all the luck in the world. However, don't ask for feedback if you don't want it.
paul. reply :
John,
here's what you asked for in your original post:
QuoteI was thinking I should have a few people review it for me and tell me what they think
and here's what you're saying in this one:
QuoteNow to another matter. Frankly I am a bit hurt by most of the comments that were posted. I understand that there are a lot of people that simply enjoy criticizing everything that they see on a forum like this one but I think it was overkill.
there's an old saying that comes to mind in situations like this - "be careful what you ask for because you just might get it." i am intrigued that you actually asked for people's opinions on your product. that was a very bold move on your part and i applaud you for having the guts to do that. it shows that you have confidence in your product. and after all, if you don't have confidence in it, how can you expect anyone else to. but here's where things went south in my opinion. you got exactly what you asked for - people's opinions. people were kind enough to take their valuable time to look at your site and products when they might not have done so otherwise. then they gave you what you asked for - their opinion. but you didn't seem to like that so much after all. if you only wanted positive responses, that's what you should have asked for. i'm sure some folks would have done just that. all would have been well and you wouldn't have gotten your feelings hurt. in short, you got some criticism and then you criticized the criticism which you asked for in the first place.
i went to your site and i will say that there is truly some good stuff there, and i'm sure your products are no exception. many folks could be helped to become better fishermen with your info i'm sure. but in life, just as in fishing, presentation is important. you can take the best looking bait in the world and render it totally ineffective with a sloppy presentation. you can cook a delicious t-bone steak for a man, but if you bring it out to him on a toilet seat, he's not going to take one bite.
there is merit to what the members have said on here. the way folks perceive your presentation is critical to your sales. not only that, but whether you like it or not, the way folks perceive you personally is critical to your sales. and when you say things like this -
- well, let's just say you haven't done yourself any favors.QuoteAs for all of those complaining about my advertising style or my grammar I am glad you are upset.
i admire what you are trying to do. you seem to have a genuine desire to help people become better fishermen and i applaud any effort in that direction. but i really think you could improve your sales and accomplish that goal if you would listen to what the members are saying here instead of taking offense to it. after all, to a large degree, you did ask for it. good luck to you in your endeavors.
key chain bass guy reply :
My .02. Poor grammar and mistakes in your writing tell me one important fact; you, could be anyone for that matter, don't pay attention to the little things. If you don't pay attention to the little things they become big things. It makes me wonder if products are shoddy, and if service is shoddy as well.
powerman970 reply :
Now for some positive feedback. As you know, I was not impressed with the site as a whole and I believe I gave an honest opinion. That was not intended to discourage you or damage your business in any way. I hope that you use some of the helpful advice you have received here to build your business. Hell, I hope you make a million dollars.
On the positive side, I just finished reading your report on fishing a frog. While I stand by my previous remarks regarding spelling and grammatical errors, I also found the report to be somewhat informative. The only areas where it was lacking (again, in my opinion) was in presentation and color choices. Most of the posters on this site have a good overall concept of fishing in general and I would imagine that like me, most of them have thrown a frog a time or two. A frog, however, is a specific type of lure. As someone who fishes a lot but does not fish a frog a lot, if I buy a report on frog fishing I would like to have some input on what color to use in different situations. I am sure that color choice is much like it is with any lure but you have to assume that if someone is purchasing a "how to" book or report that they know absolutely zero about the subject at hand. I also noted that there were only a few lines addressing technique and retrieval of the bait. If someone had never tied a frog on their line, how would you explain to them how to properly present it so they could successfully catch fish? I believe that your report is a good concept but it is more of a review of your experience with a frog and a testimonial to the fact that you believe a frog to be a good all around bait than it was an instructional piece.
I agreed with most of what you wrote. I did not really learn anything though. That is not a problem and in fact, I enjoyed the read. If you want someone to pay for your product though, they have to feel as if they gained something from it. Focus less on how big the fish are that you are catching and more on how, when and where you are catching them. Good luck with your business and I really do hope that you take all the criticism that you have received as it was intended. I think the guys on here, myself included, just want to see you succeed and it is guys like us that you will be targeting with your products. I think the report needs a lot of work but that the concept is a good one and at some point you might be able to take it to market. Just be sure that it is ready to sell before you start taking money from people who might be disappointed with what they get in return.
Big-O reply :
Johnny Boy,
I got a chance to read your Froggin report and I think you're on the right track with your concept and ideas. Seems pretty detailed and thorough and you might want to add some info on preferred colors in different conditions. Then add some proofing, etc. and I think you are underway.
With this type of information, I think it would be very possible for you to continue to add even more detailed information as often as you deem necessary. It seems we are all in search of the finer details especially the tricks of the trade. We will all find value in that.
Press on.
Big O
www.ragetail.com
Rob G. reply :
Sometimes this website has more drama in it than an entire season of "Survivor". I expect it in the duldroms of Winter, but not now. Can someone please kill this post and this issue?
guitarkid reply :
I found this to be very informative. Thank you for this, I thought it was very good.
-searoach
Bassnajr reply :
I agree with Rob.....
Time for this thread to CLOSE.
I think the message was delivered LOUD and CLEAR to this advertiser and any other advertiser on here now or who is thinking about joining our little "family" here. Just like to a big, beautiful, bass...
PRESENTATION IS EVERYTHING!!!!!
Good luck frog guy!!!!!
Peace everyone!!!!
ajr
Tin reply :
QuoteHere are a few things everyone should think about before you type in my opinion. I think a lot of the drama in this section and headaches for the mods can be avoided. I think this section has the best benefits for someone trying to move up in life but there are things you need to think about before you try.1st: Learn to take criticism and expect it. It isn't disrespect or trying to make you feel bad. It is there to HELP YOU! Remember, this is online, just because you read something one way, doesn't mean the person wrote it like that. Take it with a grain of salt, put it in the back of your mind, and better yourself from it.
3rd: Grammar- Think before you type and proof-read it. I have said it time and time again. What company is going to sponsor you if you appear to be, shall we say, not the brightest bulb on the tree, to be nice.
I think this could be used for advertising too. And with all due respect and I do mean this as CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. Your little rant did not help your status, just that has turned me off from your product. Sorry
Quinn reply :
I thank you for investing your addvertising on Bass resource.
Web sites take a lot of work.
You will fix it.
Glenn reply :
QuoteSometimes this website has more drama in it than an entire season of "Survivor". I expect it in the duldroms of Winter, but not now. Can someone please kill this post and this issue?
G'night! 
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