Fish species distributed by birds? 2024

the reel ess reply :

I know this has probably been covered her before, but I didn't see it in a search. I debated with someone recently whether it's at all likely fish can get distributed by waterfowl.

I said you could never rule it out, but 99.9% more likely, if there are fish present someone put them there. he claims anecdotal evidence of ponds that were dug and fish appeared there. I claim anecdotal evidence of places I've fished and seen no sign of any fish. And you can't keep waterfowl out. I also have a friend with a pond that he stocked several species in. Decades later, he only has those species. It seems he would have any and all species if you could not stop this phenomenon.

And then there's the possibility of one pond or creek overflowing into another. We had some torrential rains and subsequent flooding in the lower half of SC recently. I feel certain that shared species. They will get washed downstream.

Turtle135 reply :

I would say you are correct in that is does not happen 99.9% of the time.

A case in point would be the Potomac River in my area. A river that is 405 miles long with a drainage area of about 14,700 square miles and contained zero largemouth or smallmouth bass until they were introduced there by man in the late 1800's.

If the bird transfer theory was viable I would have expected that the range of the largemouth and smallmouth would have expanded coast to coast long before modern man came along and bucket stocked all these bodies of water.

IndianaFinesse reply :

I agree, it is highly unlikely that birds distributing fishes eggs. Although remotely possible, if that were true the bass would have spread from there native grounds of florida much before the Europeans came.

bigbill reply :

Then how did the bass and pan fish get into a mall drainage pond?

How do fish get into the highway drainage ponds?

Theres no running water into them. I'm thinking the ducks can carry fish eggs in there feathers?

i don't have all the answers but the fish appear in these places.

hawgenvy reply :

Fish eggs adhere to the legs of wading birds like herons and egrets.

MIbassyaker reply :

One thing to remember is that birds are bound by ecology in much the same way land and water species are. Just because a bird can fly anywhere in theory doesn't mean it will in reality. So just because fish species aren't naturally distributed literally everywhere doesn't mean birds aren't partially responsible for their natural distribution.

hawgenvy reply :

In my area at least, aquatic birds are ubiquitous and frequently are seen to fly from one pond to next. Heron, egrets, coots, marsh hens, anhinga, and ducks are seen wandering the shallows and deeper waters frequently. There is no reason to believe that they don't transport any variety of local fauna from one body of water to another upon their legs, feet, beaks, feathers, or perhaps in their mouths. However there is little proof that they do that. I would like to know of an instance where viable fish eggs were indeed discovered on the birds. Good experiment for somebody to do.

Bluebasser86 reply :

On 3/29/2016 at 10:39 AM, bigbill said:

Then how did the bass and pan fish get into a mall drainage pond?

How do fish get into the highway drainage ponds?

Theres no running water into them. I'm thinking the ducks can carry fish eggs in there feathers?

i don't have all the answers but the fish appear in these places.

People with buckets, simple as that. They see a pond with no fish and think how nice it would be to have that body of water close by with this kind of fish in it, so they make it happen.

the reel ess reply :

On 3/29/2016 at 10:41 AM, hawgenvy said:

Fish eggs adhere to the legs of wading birds like herons and egrets.

I don't doubt that can happen. But it would have to happen with fertilized eggs. They would have to be on the bird's body while in flight and not become damaged by being out of water. Then two of the eggs, of opposite sex, would have to hatch and grow to sexual maturity. Since the statistics show that sometimes fewer than 1% of fish eggs are viable candidates to become adult fish, that's highly unlikely scenario.

I mean a bass may lay 5000 to 40,000 eggs, of which as few as 2/10 of a percent can be expected to make it. These would have to eat well and survive the shallows where birds apparently wade to grow to adult size. Eating well would mean there's food. That's a tough pill to swallow.

Ski reply :

On 3/29/2016 at 10:39 AM, bigbill said:

Then how did the bass and pan fish get into a mall drainage pond?

How do fish get into the highway drainage ponds?

Theres no running water into them. I'm thinking the ducks can carry fish eggs in there feathers?

i don't have all the answers but the fish appear in these places.

I can only speak for Fl. but when the state builds a drainage pond or retention pond the state stocks it for mosquito control and to monitor its health.

Bass Justice reply :

On 3/29/2016 at 8:16 PM, the reel ess said:

I don't doubt that can happen. But it would have to happen with fertilized eggs. They would have to be on the bird's body while in flight and not become damaged by being out of water. Then two of the eggs, of opposite sex, would have to hatch and grow to sexual maturity. Since the statistics show that sometimes fewer than 1% of fish eggs are viable candidates to become adult fish, that's highly unlikely scenario.

I mean a bass may lay 5000 to 40,000 eggs, of which as few as 2/10 of a percent can be expected to make it. These would have to eat well and survive the shallows where birds apparently wade to grow to adult size. Eating well would mean there's food. That's a tough pill to swallow.

Doesn't this statistic take into account predatory fish? In theory if a heron stepped into multiple nests throughout spring and summer of bass and panfish then they would all grow together and create their own eco system. Since a clutch can contain 40,000 eggs I can see this happening actually.

Really you only need it to happen once

the reel ess reply :

On 3/30/2016 at 3:58 AM, Bass Justice said:

Doesn't this statistic take into account predatory fish? In theory if a heron stepped into multiple nests throughout spring and summer of bass and panfish then they would all grow together and create their own eco system. Since a clutch can contain 40,000 eggs I can see this happening actually.

Really you only need it to happen once

Fair statement. There may be no predatory fish in the new ecosystem. There may also be no fish whatsoever to eat.. It would be a tough fist year if all the bass came of age at once and there were no baitfish. I suppose there could be crawfish and that might be enough. But it also adds one more degree of difficulty. I doubt any pond management expert would recommend you stock your pond with only bass.

Another thing I think about in this scenario is that I don't hear people saying crappie just appeared in their ponds. It seems to be limited to bass and small sunfish. A combo that usually is intentionally stocked together so the bass have a food source in a pond where there are no baitfish.

Bass Justice reply :

On 3/30/2016 at 4:42 AM, the reel ess said:

Fair statement. There may be no predatory fish in the new ecosystem. There may also be no fish whatsoever to eat.. It would be a tough fist year if all the bass came of age at once and there were no baitfish. I suppose there could be crawfish and that might be enough. But it also adds one more degree of difficulty. I doubt any pond management expert would recommend you stock your pond with only bass.

Another thing I think about in this scenario is that I don't hear people saying crappie just appeared in their ponds. It seems to be limited to bass and small sunfish. A combo that usually is intentionally stocked together so the bass have a food source in a pond where there are no baitfish.

Yeah I agree. Definitely interesting to think about. I was imagining that same heron stepped into a clutch of panfish eggs in addition to bass eggs, so you would have a number of bass and panfish all growing together, in which the panfish would grow to be the bass' food supply, hopefully after they reproduced.

roadwarrior reply :

It could be aliens...

bigbill reply :

At a big lake here they have a river fed kiddie pond that feeds the lake for the kids. We would drop off 2 & 3lb bass for the kids to catch.

Bass aren't native here we have abandoned bass hatchery. I know where one is I was told there good sized bass still in it.

geo g reply :

I have heard this theory several times over the years. Predatory birds like eagles and ospreys, are sloppy eaters tearing apart fish with their beaks. It is very possible fish eggs would drop in the water and possibly live. Lots of our florida lakes are loaded with big cypress trees. It is possible, but at best it is a long shot!

BassThumb reply :

I believe it's a lot more likely that invasive species, such as milfoil spores or perhaps even tiny zebra mussels, could be transferred from lake to lake by aquatic birds.

There's no incentive for people for manually transfer invasives like there is to transfer fish. I know of farmers within a half hour of here who take buckets full of potato-chip-sized panfish, bass, and northerns from local lakes and put them in their private farm ponds. I've heard they do well for a time, until a hard winter causes the lakes to freeze to a point that cause a major winterkill.

hawgenvy reply :

On 3/29/2016 at 8:16 PM, the reel ess said:

I don't doubt that can happen. But it would have to happen with fertilized eggs. They would have to be on the bird's body while in flight and not become damaged by being out of water. Then two of the eggs, of opposite sex, would have to hatch and grow to sexual maturity. Since the statistics show that sometimes fewer than 1% of fish eggs are viable candidates to become adult fish, that's highly unlikely scenario.

I mean a bass may lay 5000 to 40,000 eggs, of which as few as 2/10 of a percent can be expected to make it. These would have to eat well and survive the shallows where birds apparently wade to grow to adult size. Eating well would mean there's food. That's a tough pill to swallow.

Consider that the biggest challenge to early survival is aquatic predators. That gives pioneer fry an advantage. And what do those tiny pioneers have available to eat? The ubiquitous mosquito larva, as well as minute invertebrates spread by birds, amphibians, and reptiles.

There is unfortunately scanty scientific literature regarding dispersion mechanisms of fish. Interestingly, there exists evidence of viable fish eggs found in duck feces that gave rise to fertile fish. Although it is remarkable that fish eggs can survive gut transit or air transport on fish legs, it is not surprising that robust and specific dispersion mechanisms have evolved, given the tremendous species survival advantage afforded by such strategies.

the reel ess reply :

On 3/30/2016 at 7:31 AM, geo g said:

I have heard this theory several times over the years. Predatory birds like eagles and ospreys, are sloppy eaters tearing apart fish with their beaks. It is very possible fish eggs would drop in the water and possibly live. Lots of our florida lakes are loaded with big cypress trees. It is possible, but at best it is a long shot!

Fish eggs aren't fertilized in the belly. They're laid and fertilized at the same time.

the reel ess reply :

Another unlikely, but marginally possible scenario is some kind of weather phenomenon, like when it rains frogs.Presumably, a waterspout can touch down, suck up water, then move along to another pond or peter out over one. Pretty unlikely, but not out of the realm of possibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_of_animals

MFBAB reply :

I know of some cases where Blue Herons have been seen "stocking" ponds, literally. I mean, they have taken live fish (not eggs) and dropped them into unstocked ponds. They were making themselves a private little honey hole.

Those suckers are pretty smart. There was a video up on Bassmaster a few years ago of a Blue Heron actually fishing with live bait. He had a little shad or something, and he would drop it into an eddy along the bank and wait for a bigger fish to come after it, then he would catch the bigger fish. This was on video, I lost the link but it was real and it looked like the bird probably did it all the time!!

here are 2 videos of green Herons "Fishing" with bread:

hawgenvy reply :

On 3/30/2016 at 8:30 PM, MFBAB said:

Those suckers are pretty smart. There was a video up on Bassmaster a few years ago of a Blue Heron actually fishing with live bait. He had a little shad or something, and he would drop it into an eddy along the bank and wait for a bigger fish to come after it, then he would catch the bigger fish. This was on video, I lost the link but it was real and it looked like the bird probably did it all the time!!

here are 2 videos of green Herons "Fishing" with bread:

Those herons aint so smart! He's a redneck doin' the ezact same thing:

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__youtu.be_GL8Jh5zODMk&d=CwIFAg&c=sZC6i8O8fFyUAVdBoHZAgg&r=4h90tpBWT0v8OYQRpMIm8hIfSk6n0MPQ-NlRMyLcQQU&m=M0yKvQSBPj_hbyuDvHz9DxQkKgfKO5Vli2FPY2bf_4I&s=zxMTZJSes3KMLinS8RL9zOCAaotqFPnv0ZQNvSDpkho&e=

Dbn23 reply :

I feel like this is can happen. My neighbor has a small pond that had bass and small sunfish in it. (Tiny little pond, really just a water hole for cows) Well one year when we had a bad drought the entire pond went dry. No water in it what so ever. The owner passed away and his family let the property go to crap and pasture turned into woods, but rains filled the pond back up. A year or so after this we went walking around over there just to take a look, and the pond was full of small sunfish. I can promise you no one stocked it because it's right by my house and required a machete just to be able to get close enough to see it. It had to have been birds or turtles.

roadwarrior reply :

Any chance of run-off from another pond or stream?

Dbn23 reply :

Nope. There is a pond within about 700 yards but it's down hill from the small one I'm talking about.

the reel ess reply :

I got in touch with an SCDNR fisheries biologist who says it's highly unlikely. Nothing is impossible.

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