Fall Transition 2024
Mottfia reply :
Hey Guys,
The Fall transition is coming up and I wanted to know how everyone goes about getting ready and finding fish during this part of the year.
Mottfia
cart7t reply :
Coming up? I ran into a classic fall setup in Illinois a couple weeks ago.
I fished a tournament at Rend Lake in Illinois. Water temps mid 80's, air temps 90. The fish were in the very back ends of the coves that had feeder creeks hanging on laydowns or weedbeds in 1-2 feet of water waiting to ambush shad schools that were already moving back into that shallow of water. I, along with a whole lot of others had spent pre-fishing time trying to catch fish off more traditional late summer haunts like main lake points and larger secondary points within the larger coves.
I didn't find the pattern till it was too late.
Weird summer we're having this year.
I've got a T on another lake tomorrow. I'm more familiar with this lake than I was with Rend. No pre fishing time for this one but I'm going to keep an open mind. Look for the shad. They seem to be thinking more fall right now than the fishermen. 
Catt reply :
Pretty much what I do in the springfollow the bait fish & water temperatures
Paul Roberts reply :
QuoteComing up? I ran into a classic fall setup in Illinois a couple weeks ago.I fished a tournament at Rend Lake in Illinois. Water temps mid 80's, air temps 90. The fish were in the very back ends of the coves that had feeder creeks hanging on laydowns or weedbeds in 1-2 feet of water waiting to ambush shad schools that were already moving back into that shallow of water. I, along with a whole lot of others had spent pre-fishing time trying to catch fish off more traditional late summer haunts like main lake points and larger secondary points within the larger coves.
I didn't find the pattern till it was too late.
Weird summer we're having this year.
I've got a T on another lake tomorrow. I'm more familiar with this lake than I was with Rend. No pre fishing time for this one but I'm going to keep an open mind. Look for the shad. They seem to be thinking more fall right now than the fishermen.
cart7t, what were the dates of that tournament?
cart7t reply :
It was the Kyle Price memorial tournament on Aug 16th.
There was a Bass World Sport tournament the day before.
KingBass reply :
I stock up on big worms! Rage tail anaconda and gander mt. 1o" worms! I also break out the big spinnerbait and crankbaits!
Edit
I don't really have to deal with following the bait as much as you guys.I fish mostly man mad ponds, so the bait could pretty much be anywhere!
Paul Roberts reply :
QuoteComing up? I ran into a classic fall setup in Illinois a couple weeks ago.I fished a tournament at Rend Lake in Illinois. Water temps mid 80's, air temps 90. The fish were in the very back ends of the coves that had feeder creeks hanging on laydowns or weedbeds in 1-2 feet of water waiting to ambush shad schools that were already moving back into that shallow of water. I, along with a whole lot of others had spent pre-fishing time trying to catch fish off more traditional late summer haunts like main lake points and larger secondary points within the larger coves.
I didn't find the pattern till it was too late.
Weird summer we're having this year.
I've got a T on another lake tomorrow. I'm more familiar with this lake than I was with Rend. No pre fishing time for this one but I'm going to keep an open mind. Look for the shad. They seem to be thinking more fall right now than the fishermen.
Curious. What in particular do you believe is weird about this year?
cart7t reply :
After talking to some of the guys after the tournament, the fish at Rend have never taken to the late summer patterns like previous years. I've experienced that at a couple other lakes I fish. They're much shallower than normal and more reactive to reaction baits vs normal where we'd be dragging some sort of soft plastic deep or fishing very heavy cover, flippin, hoping for a bite or two.
Raul reply :
Fall ?
Who 's falling ? :-?
Paul Roberts reply :
QuoteAfter talking to some of the guys after the tournament, the fish at Rend have never taken to the late summer patterns like previous years. I've experienced that at a couple other lakes I fish. They're much shallower than normal and more reactive to reaction baits vs normal where we'd be dragging some sort of soft plastic deep or fishing very heavy cover, flippin, hoping for a bite or two.
Thanks, cart! You guys are not alone in seeing this.
WRB reply :
Out my way the fall transition doesn't start until the surface drops below 70 degrees or so, until than it's still a summer pattern.
Bait fish don't usually move out of the weeds until the weeds start to die back, then things start to change quickly to the fall pattern of bait fish and crawdad migrations.
If the weeds continue to stay green and produce DO, the water temps are good, the bait or bass don't have a reason to move.
WRB
Clark Stewart reply :
QuoteQuoteComing up? I ran into a classic fall setup in Illinois a couple weeks ago.I fished a tournament at Rend Lake in Illinois. Water temps mid 80's, air temps 90. The fish were in the very back ends of the coves that had feeder creeks hanging on laydowns or weedbeds in 1-2 feet of water waiting to ambush shad schools that were already moving back into that shallow of water. I, along with a whole lot of others had spent pre-fishing time trying to catch fish off more traditional late summer haunts like main lake points and larger secondary points within the larger coves.
I didn't find the pattern till it was too late.
Weird summer we're having this year.
I've got a T on another lake tomorrow. I'm more familiar with this lake than I was with Rend. No pre fishing time for this one but I'm going to keep an open mind. Look for the shad. They seem to be thinking more fall right now than the fishermen.
Curious. What in particular do you believe is weird about this year?
I don't know about Colorado, but here in Alabama it's been the temps and rain. For the last 4 years or so we've been in a pretty severe drought. This is the first year that it has rained with any significance. What's weird is that the fish have not known where to be as in typical years. According to the weatherman this is actually a normal rain year for Alabama, but we've (and the fish apparently) have gotten so used to the drought that we think we're gonna drown! The fish seem lost and we're catching them in places we've seldom caught them this time of year. On top of that we had record high weather in July and record low weather in August. Go figure
Koop reply :
QuoteQuoteAfter talking to some of the guys after the tournament, the fish at Rend have never taken to the late summer patterns like previous years. I've experienced that at a couple other lakes I fish. They're much shallower than normal and more reactive to reaction baits vs normal where we'd be dragging some sort of soft plastic deep or fishing very heavy cover, flippin, hoping for a bite or two.Thanks, cart! You guys are not alone in seeing this.
I'm seeing this exact thing in the lakes here in WI. We've had a stretch of low 70's and high 60's already and we aren't out of August yet. I've already made the transition to the Fall pattern. The Water temp is averaging 65-70 daily currently. It is 54' here as I type this, and today didn't break 62'.
This has been a very odd summer, we had an established thermocline for an extremely shortened period.
5bass reply :
The summer bite has been different for me too. There has been lots more rain this year, the lakes are full, the water temps never got as high as they usually do and the fish have been a little hard to figure out at times. For most of the summer it was like they wanted to go deep but they were caught in between and just couldn't figure out what they wanted to do. I suspect that the lack of a solid thermocline has something to do with it.
Typically it's early topwater then move to deep water once the sun gets up....there's usually no 'in between'. It hasnt been that way this summer.....its been more like, early topwater and then gradually fish deeper until you find them. Sometimes it's 8', sometimes 12', sometimes 20'.
In fact, I caught some schooling fish 3 weekends ago. I've never seen fish school that early in the year. It was a nice surprise. I'm going straight back there in the morning when we blast off. I still think it's a bit early for a full fledged move to fall but with the milder temps it should happen earlier than normal, so be ready.
Mottfia reply :
I can say that the fishing is different this summer. Not so much to the point that I will say that the fish are setting up different or aren't sure about whats going on. In my case I have found them in the typical locations for summer. The only difference being that the bite was on for a longer period of time and a little shallower. I think the extra rain and cooler weather helped that.
I'm hoping to get an idea of how yall think when it comes to fishing reserviors. Being a river rat I have spent the most of my times learning about river fish movements and I'm looking to see how they compare to reservior fishing.
Thank You,
Mottfia
RoLo reply :
QuoteAfter talking to some of the guys after the tournament, the fish at Rend have never taken to the late summer patterns like previous years. I've experienced that at a couple other lakes I fish. They're much shallower than normal and more reactive to reaction baits vs normal where we'd be dragging some sort of soft plastic deep or fishing very heavy cover, flippin, hoping for a bite or two.
I find that intriguing!
Here in Florida I'm far removed from Missouri, yet our bass are also behaving as though we're in the fall period.
We were out just today, and you couldn't help but notice that the lake was alive with activity (both baitfish & bass).
In spite of the activity though, nothing was really working for us, and I told my wife that we should be doing much better.
She then tied on a spro aruku shad and quickly boated two bass. As soon as we gave up finesse fishing
the action went from boring to red hot, and I also noticed that every bass gave us a hard fight (much jumping).
This is not the rule in August, especially on this lake. I'm still mulling this one over, but I believe it's related
in some way to the inordinate rainfall of late, and pool levels higher than we've seen in years.
Roger
DINK WHISPERER reply :
Don't even get me started on this summer! It has been the weirdest i have had on the water in a while! The fish did not display behaviors familiar to other years. We found them shallow when they should have been deep and vice versa. There were some really good fish taken this year though. Can't wait to see what the fall will be like!!! 
Catt reply :
What changes in Fall?
Two things, the weather starts changing with the passing of fronts and lower air temperatures. But if Mother Nature is slow in signaling the start of fall through temperature changes and frontal conditions, the bass will still know fall is coming due to the amount of daylight.
As fall approaches, there is less daylight; less daylight means the water will start to cool on its own due to less heat for the sun and longer cooler nights which signals fall and winter are soon to follow.
We humans tend to watch clocks & calendarsthe bass don't
senile1 reply :
In my area we've had a cool August and in the last few days night time temperatures have been as low as 50. This is abnormal as we are usually in the 90s during the day and 70s at night during this time of year. I haven't fished in the last week but I expect an early fall transition if this continues.
On a side note, I was looking forward to dove season starting September 1st, but with these night time temperatures, some of the doves will already have started to migrate south from Kansas City.
Paul Roberts reply :
Quote
QuoteAfter talking to some of the guys after the tournament, the fish at Rend have never taken to the late summer patterns like previous years. I've experienced that at a couple other lakes I fish. They're much shallower than normal and more reactive to reaction baits vs normal where we'd be dragging some sort of soft plastic deep or fishing very heavy cover, flippin, hoping for a bite or two.I find that intriguing!
Here in Florida I'm far removed from Missouri, yet our bass are also behaving as though we're in the fall period.
We were out just today, and you couldn't help but notice that the lake was alive with activity (both baitfish & bass).
In spite of the activity though, nothing was really working for us, and I told my wife that we should be doing much better.
She then tied on a spro aruku shad and quickly boated two bass. As soon as we gave up finesse fishing
the action went from boring to red hot, and I also noticed that every bass gave us a hard fight (much jumping).
This is not the rule in August, especially on this lake. I'm still mulling this one over, but I believe it's related
in some way to the inordinate rainfall of late, and pool levels higher than we've seen in years.
Roger
Roger, what are your water temps now? Seems much of the south has been typically scorching from what I've assumed from some posts. The cool weather in the north. Is that so? Are you normal? Or Cooler? Lately?
RoLo reply :
QuoteAs fall approaches, there is less daylight; less daylight means the water will start to cool on its own due to less heat for the sun and longer cooler nights which signals fall and winter are soon to follow.We humans tend to watch clocks & calendarsthe bass don't
Catt, I agree with your photoperiod theory, but photoperiod moves lockstep with our Gregorian calendar.
August on these waters is different from those in the past (I know this lake 'very' well).
Roger
RoLo reply :
QuoteQuote
QuoteAfter talking to some of the guys after the tournament, the fish at Rend have never taken to the late summer patterns like previous years. I've experienced that at a couple other lakes I fish. They're much shallower than normal and more reactive to reaction baits vs normal where we'd be dragging some sort of soft plastic deep or fishing very heavy cover, flippin, hoping for a bite or two.I find that intriguing!
Here in Florida I'm far removed from Missouri, yet our bass are also behaving as though we're in the fall period.
We were out just today, and you couldn't help but notice that the lake was alive with activity (both baitfish & bass).
In spite of the activity though, nothing was really working for us, and I told my wife that we should be doing much better.
She then tied on a spro aruku shad and quickly boated two bass. As soon as we gave up finesse fishing
the action went from boring to red hot, and I also noticed that every bass gave us a hard fight (much jumping).
This is not the rule in August, especially on this lake. I'm still mulling this one over, but I believe it's related
in some way to the inordinate rainfall of late, and pool levels higher than we've seen in years.
Roger
Roger, what are your water temps now? Seems much of the south has been typically scorching from what I've assumed from some posts. The cool weather in the north. Is that so? Are you normal? Or Cooler? Lately?
Good question.
Yesterday, water temps ranged between 78 and 83-deg F, which is somewhat south of normal on this waterbody.
We've been getting near daily rainfall, and the lake's temperature is apparently buffeted by tropospheric temps (rainfall).
As soon as I post this Paul, I'm on my way out on the same lake...hopefully I'll learn something.
Roger
tnhiker44 reply :
The surface temperatures in my neck of the woods have been hovering in the upper 80's and even reaching the low 90's in some areas. But it sure does seem as if the fish have been shallower this year (based on my catches and those I hear about). So, after a couple of big rainfalls late in the week I go out to a local lake yesterday and find the surface temperatures to be in the low 80's... the lowest I have seen since spring. The bite was way off, not only for me but for everyone I talked to. Here I have been waiting for the temperatures to drop to turn on the fish and just the opposite happens. Perhaps the 'off' bite was because of the radical change in surface temperatures and not a gradual one (like the change of seasons bring).
At any rate, I too have seen a difference in fish position/location and activity this year.
roadwarrior reply :
The transition here is to brown fish.
WOO-HOO!
Prime time is just around the corner.
;D ;D ;D
WRB reply :
Quote
QuoteAs fall approaches, there is less daylight; less daylight means the water will start to cool on its own due to less heat for the sun and longer cooler nights which signals fall and winter are soon to follow.We humans tend to watch clocks & calendarsthe bass don't
Catt, I agree with your photoperiod theory, but photoperiod moves lockstep with our Gregorian calendar.
August on these waters is different from those in the past (I know this lake 'very' well).
Roger
The bass calendar that Catt refers to and I totally agree with is within the bass's genetic base; the cosmic clock. PM me with email address and I will send you a copy.
Every year differs to some degree due to changes in weather patterns, atmospheric changes, recruitment of prey and bass, etc. The cycles however repeat with each bass calendar period; winter, pre-spawn, spawn, post spawn, summer and fall. The Georgian calendar; January to December may at time coincide with the bass's calendar from time to time.
We like to say; the bass are bedding when the mustard or dogwood blossoms. The old observations are based seasonal changes not calendar months and were fairly accurate
WRB
RoLo reply :
QuoteQuote
QuoteAs fall approaches, there is less daylight; less daylight means the water will start to cool on its own due to less heat for the sun and longer cooler nights which signals fall and winter are soon to follow.We humans tend to watch clocks & calendarsthe bass don't
Catt, I agree with your photoperiod theory, but photoperiod moves lockstep with our Gregorian calendar.
August on these waters is different from those in the past (I know this lake 'very' well).
Roger
The bass calendar that Catt refers to and I totally agree with is within the bass's genetic base; the cosmic clock. PM me with email address and I will send you a copy.
Every year differs to some degree due to changes in weather patterns, atmospheric changes, recruitment of prey and bass, etc. The cycles however repeat with each bass calendar period; winter, pre-spawn, spawn, post spawn, summer and fall. The Georgian calendar; January to December may at time coincide with the bass's calendar from time to time.
We like to say; the bass are bedding when the mustard or dogwood blossoms. The old observations are based seasonal changes not calendar months and were fairly accurate
WRB
I'm sure that everyone in this thread realizes that the fall pattern does not begin and end like clockwork,
but varies from year-to-year. In fact, discrepancies in seasonal timing was the brainchild of the "cosmic clock.
The cosmic clock is based on a hodgepodge of local variables such as barometric pressure, wind velocities,
cloud cover, ad nauseam. The cosmic clock was qualified but never quantified, but it's used chiefly as a scapegoat,
for explaining away the discrepancies in seasonal timing. What's more, the cosmic clock exerts only a local influence,
and produces different effects in different regions. In fact, two adjacent lakes within the realm of the same cosmic clock,
may experience different seasonal timing. Their differences may be due to differences in water clarity, water depth,
dissolved oxygen content, et al. For this reason, I seen no compelling reason to introduce the cosmic clock,
but I did state that "photoperiod" (day length) and the Gregorian calendar move lockstep (which they do).
In the context of this thread, we're not discussing local patterns, but are pointing out a national phenomenon.
If you read the replies above, you'll find a nationwide cross-section of members from Missouri, Colorado, Florida,
Alabama, Wisconsin and Virginia who have all experienced an August anomaly.
Roger
Catt reply :
This entire year has been unusually strange
A warm winter and yet it produced snow along the Gulf coast!
Water temperatures in the low 60s by early March but a late spawn
The transition into summer patterns was sporadic
All indications in nature pointed one direction but the bass said we aint doing it & you can make me.
It has left this Cajun scratching his head
Matt Fly reply :
QuoteWhat changes in Fall?Two things, the weather starts changing with the passing of fronts and lower air temperatures. But if Mother Nature is slow in signaling the start of fall through temperature changes and frontal conditions, the bass will still know fall is coming due to the amount of daylight.
As fall approaches, there is less daylight; less daylight means the water will start to cool on its own due to less heat for the sun and longer cooler nights which signals fall and winter are soon to follow.
We humans tend to watch clocks & calendarsthe bass don't
I was gonna post that as I always have Catt, but I figured someone would want to know what tournaments I won to be correct on this info. ;D
RoLo reply :
QuoteThis entire year has been unusually strangeA warm winter and yet it produced snow along the Gulf coast!
Water temperatures in the low 60s by early March but a late spawn
Wow, if you didn't mention snow, I'd have thought you were describing Florida 
During a normal year in Florida, big bass are most prevalent from January through April.
In 2009 however, fishing for big bass peaked from April to mid-June with virtually no let up.
I remember when Catt & I both commented on the fact that many slob bass were blasting the lure
close to the boat (in my case, within a boat-length of the rod-tip).
Throwing a monkey wrench into our oddball spring was a paltry topwater bite.
In central Florida, the topwater bite typically peaks in April and May, which coincides with the post-spawn period.
I spent very little time on top this year, because the bass were not as cooperative.
This year, April and May provided mediocre to lame topwater action, and different from most other years,
the mediocre topwater bite persisted unchanged throughout the summer (no better, no worse). In search of
a common denominator, I keep coming back to the disproportionate rainfall this year, which was basically countrywide.
For good measure, we just had another 1.5 inches of rain last evening with more T-storms expected today.
Rainwater is a wildcard.
On the one hand, rainwater carries no dissolved oxygen of its own. On the other hand, rainfall is one of the best
natural oxygenators in any lake. On the one hand, rainwater can quickly raise or lower water temperatures,
depending on the temperature of the troposphere from whence it came. Rainwater changes water temperatures
through direction injection, unlike air temperatures which must rely on slow-moving convection.
Add wind to the mix, and you'll likely find hot pockets and cold pockets in the same lake.
On the other hand, although rainfall changes water temperatures and dissolved oxygen levels,
over time it also increases the volume of the lake, which has a "dilutive" effect on change
Roger
Catt reply :
I've wondered of it could be related to El Niño
RoLo reply :
QuoteI've wondered of it could be related to El Niño
Yeah, I keep going there too.
I'm sure that in some way, it all ties together
Roger
Catt reply :
Quote
QuoteI've wondered of it could be related to El NiñoYeah, I keep going there too.
I'm sure in some way, it all ties together
Roger
About the time I think I have the bass figured out they prove I don't
RoLo reply :
QuoteQuote
QuoteI've wondered of it could be related to El NiñoYeah, I keep going there too.
I'm sure in some way, it all ties together
Roger
About the time I think I have the bass figured out they prove I don't
Yep, and that's what keeps us coming back for more...we're gluttons for a challenge
Roger
Crestliner2008 reply :
Here in the northeast, the year has been a very cold one. Winter lasted well in March. April and May were very cold. June & July the highs were in the 60's with way above normal rainfall. A record actually in July.
By mid-August summer finally arrived with the first heat wave of 3 days @ 90+ degrees. That was last week. This week the night temps are back in the 40's with highs for the daytime hours only in 70's!
THAT is very unusual for summer here abouts. The smallmouths didn't set up their deep water patterns until the first week in August this year. Now I'm wondering how long it will last before they head back toward the shallows. Especially if these cool nights persist.
CRAZY year (up here at least!). 
Paul Roberts reply :
I may be sounding somewhat uppity here, and certainly don't have the Tournament or Trophy credentials to be trusted ;D :, but I think I know what's up.
I need to pull it all together into a cohesive package before I get ahead of myself and get to babblin'. This has been one darn interesting year.
WRB reply :
The Cosmic Clock* is based on water temperature, sun position, moon phase and bass daily rhythm; basic bass behavior. Seasonal periods change at a different pace than mans monthly calendar.
There isn't any guaranteed method to predict the exact daily behavior of any living animal, including bass and especially man.
Forget trying to relate to calendar months; this August is different than past years. Bass simply relate to their specific environment; water temperature and available prey. Weather impacts the bass's environment on a daily or hourly basis, affecting the activity levels and location. Bass in New York in February are still in the winter cold water period, bass in Florida could be spawning as the water temperature approach the low 60's.
Relating to a 12 month calendar or a seasonal period calendar is just another factor to consider, when bass fishing.
WRB
* The Cosmic Clock and Bass Calendar I'm referring to was created in 1974 by myself for SoCal seminars, later adopted by In-Fisherman.
Dated information, but still appropriate.
RoLo reply :
QuoteThe Cosmic Clock* is based on water temperature, sun position, moon phase and bass daily rhythm; basic bass behavior. Seasonal periods change at a different pace than mans monthly calendar.There isn't any guaranteed method to predict the exact daily behavior of any living animal, including bass and especially man.
Forget trying to relate to calendar months; this August is different than past years. Bass simply relate to their specific environment; water temperature and available prey. Weather impacts the bass's environment on a daily or hourly basis, affecting the activity levels and location. Bass in New York in February are still in the winter cold water period, bass in Florida could be spawning as the water temperature approach the low 60's.
Relating to a 12 month calendar or a seasonal period calendar is just another factor to consider, when bass fishing.
WRB
* The Cosmic Clock and Bass Calendar I'm referring to was created in 1974 by myself for SoCal seminars, later adopted by In-Fisherman.
Dated information, but still appropriate.
I salute you for your contribution to the "cosmic clock", I first read about it in 1975.
I find the term "cosmic" however a tad contradictory, as it's more of a "micro" clock based on local anomalies.
The Earth's celestial clock based on the cosmos is well known and well established.
It is only "local" anomalies that cause seasonal periods to deviate from the "macro" clock" (correct me if I'm wrong).
Even In-Fisherman regarded the cosmic clock as a scapegoat; this is a direct quote from them regarding the cosmic clock (1975):
"It's not important for the In-Fisherman to know why seasons are erratic...just to realize that they can be".
This is reminiscent of the military's "Don't ask, don't tell".
Roger
RoLo reply :
QuoteI may be sounding somewhat uppity here, and certainly don't have the Tournament or Trophy credentials to be trusted ;D :I need to pull it all together into a cohesive package before I get ahead of myself and get to babblin'. This has been one darn interesting year.
Okay Paul, now you've got us all waiting with bated breath 
Roger
Catt reply :
Cosmic Clock is utter nonsense
Paul Roberts reply :
QuoteQuoteI may be sounding somewhat uppity here, and certainly don't have the Tournament or Trophy credentials to be trusted ;D :I need to pull it all together into a cohesive package before I get ahead of myself and get to babblin'. This has been one darn interesting year.
Okay Paul, now you've got us all waiting with bated breath
Roger
I've had that "bated breath" for a long time. I once told a fellow (but senior) researcher that I wanted to "see the face of God" -LOL. Does it get more optimistic than that? ;D
There is no single factor of course to answer all the nuances, but there are some basic parameters, limitations, that need to be clarified, and just haven't been. I've been collecting this stuff for years. I think I'm beginning to understand some pretty steep parameters.
Blue Streak reply :
You can add Ohio to this list. This has been the strangest year I have ever spent on the water. I never really did figure out when the bass spawned, and right now the shallows are full of bass.
Simp reply :
QuoteComing up? I ran into a classic fall setup in Illinois a couple weeks ago.I fished a tournament at Rend Lake in Illinois. Water temps mid 80's, air temps 90. The fish were in the very back ends of the coves that had feeder creeks hanging on laydowns or weedbeds in 1-2 feet of water waiting to ambush shad schools that were already moving back into that shallow of water. I, along with a whole lot of others had spent pre-fishing time trying to catch fish off more traditional late summer haunts like main lake points and larger secondary points within the larger coves.
I didn't find the pattern till it was too late.
Weird summer we're having this year.
I've got a T on another lake tomorrow. I'm more familiar with this lake than I was with Rend. No pre fishing time for this one but I'm going to keep an open mind. Look for the shad. They seem to be thinking more fall right now than the fishermen.
I live just down the road from Rend and it can be a great lake. With that said it's mostly a very shallow muddy lake that is great for buzzbait's (it was invented on this lake), Spinnerbaits, Bagley B's, and pitchin and flipping. This lake was made by damming up a lowland that the Big MUDDY River flowed into. It also has some MONSTER Catfish in it! So I'd tend to say they may have just been in there normal hang outs considering the water color and the average depth of the lake. With that said the weather has been crazy and I'm certainly seeing a Fall fishing pattern now with this crazy cold front weather and no doubt the days are alot shorter!
BTW Rend Lake also claimed a life of a angler a couple weeks ago. He was fishing a buddy tourney and they went to run back to the weigh in station. He was bending down and strapping in his rods when he had a heat stroke and fell off the boat unconscious. His co angler heard the splash and he jumped in to to get him. The problem was the guy who fell in didn't have a life jacket or a auto inflate one. The other guy did and when he jumped in his went off and he couldn't get to the other anger who sank right to the bottom.
Muddy reply :
This was my single hardest year of fishing ever. Rain and constantly below average temps ( we recorded the coolest July on record) had the weed beds never fully setting up, as is usually so predictable during the summer season here, on all bodies of water.
I had to deprogram myself from past years and logs, as the fish were never where they were supposed to be. Rather than one dominant pattern, there were several ambiguous ones going on daily!
Then finally last week temps in the 90's and at least a familiar top water night bite developed, only to have that radically changed by a record setting 42 degree night!!!!!! What a weird year :-/
Paul Roberts reply :
QuoteThis was my single hardest year of fishing ever. Rain and constantly below average temps ( we recorded the coolest July on record) had the weed beds never fully setting up, as is usually so predictable during the summer season here, on all bodies of water.I had to deprogram myself from past years and logs, as the fish were never where they were supposed to be. Rather than one dominant pattern, there were several ambiguous ones going on daily!
Then finally last week temps in the 90's and at least a familiar top water night bite developed, only to have that radically changed by a record setting 42 degree night!!!!!! What a weird year :-/
The curves we can be thrown. There ARE rules out there. Been a really fascinating year for me, to see the "norms" toyed with.
Been a cool year here too, with some record low nights. Weed beds were different this year (I talk about it some in my thread, Some More Fishing -Crankin' and Finessin'
http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1248500205 )
I read an interesting research paper a while back about herbicide treatments and bass response. And the researcher (Dr Scott Samson an angler too) recently did a follow up article for the In-Fisherman 2009 Bass Guide. The gist was that the bass DID NOT MOVE out, but anglers did! This says something about both bass', and anglers, relationship with an area. The bass moved more (to hunt effectively is my thought), and shifted use to somewhat deeper water and some existing wood (for protection).
The story gets better: There were some anglers who weren't intimidated; two in particular placed high in tournaments from that very location. One was a Japanese angler who didn't have prior experience there thus he could not fish history'. They fished finesse stuff (DS) and placed high (both at #2). This is a common thing (but not fool proof of course), that more open water tends to require smaller stuff. It's the stupid looking lure thing, I believe.
Similarly, I have certain areas in the ponds I fish that I can take a certain lure, or two, and catch em really well GoTo's for that area. There are other areas of each pond where I do not catch fish. Is it bc they are not there? Sometimes, some places yes. Other times and places, they are there but the layout coupled with conditions makes these areas not conducive to the same GoTo presentation that kills em on the other side of the pond. My response tends to be to shy away from the what I know to do the GoTo thing (Again, I'm not in it for numbers, but to learn something). So I challenge myself to catch em where I can't and when it pans out, it's usually a different presentation method entirely that turns the tide.
We all know that certain basic pres. methods shine in different places. It helps to recognize them when they appear even on small scale like one small area of a pond, or an area that has undergone change. This has truly been a year where the GoTo / fishing history path has fallen apart in many places.
Muddy, I'm not saying this fits your particular spot, but it's something to think about this winter or this weekend. If I remember right you've had an outer weed line with rocks that held fish. Likely there is some basic structure there maybe the fish are still in the area. I'm thinking finesse-sized jigs (see tyrius' post http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1251991140),
shaky, or DS on what's left or nearby those rocks, and further out on the drop. Hey, you'd found fish, a chunk of the work is done. Now adapt.
Muddy reply :
Tried downsizing, line changes, even the way I face the area to be fished, with little or no results. I am sure there is a puzzle piece I have missed. I had fun anyway 8-)
Paul Roberts reply :
QuoteTried downsizing, line changes, even the way I face the area to be fished, with little or no results. I am sure there is a puzzle piece I have missed. I had fun anyway 8-)
That's the bottom line -the fun. If the expectation were to fish against others (real or perceived), to catch at all costs, then you're being pretty rough on yourself. If fun can be had in stretching horizons, then this has been the year for that. 8-)
As to the problem at hand: My GUESS is, that that puzzle piece is close by.
Muddy reply :
Stretched horizons and wallets; last week saw my cell phone sleeping with the fishes in 6 ft of water :-/
Paul Roberts reply :
QuoteStretched horizons and wallets; last week saw my cell phone sleeping with the fishes in 6 ft of water
Ouch! I'm in a float tube to boot; I know that "sploop!" sound too well. Everything is now tethered -I know how spiders feel. I leave my phone in the car. I'm not available when I'm fishing.
Big Tom reply :
I have been seriously bass fishing real hard for three years now. All I know is that this year was a lot different than the last two years. Last year I was constantly hoping for those cloudy, rainy, cooler days. This year, those days are very common and the fishing has been better but a lot more unpredictable overall. Its disheartening to not catch them the way you think you will when everything you have learned is telling you the conditions are perfect for a big day on the lake.
The main reason I enjoy summer fishing at all is because its at least more predictable than the other seasons. The early morning topwater bite is a lot different this year too. Its almost non-existant.
Muddy reply :
Hey Big Tom: Top water for us was no where near as good as previous years, and when it came it was great but sporadic
Things I have noticed: This year>>> HOW ABOUT YOU FELLAS??
The weeds did not get as "full bodied" and the weed beds did not set up as usual
water temps were mostly low, with wild fluctuations in water temp
Rain raised water levels drastically
Bass never seemed to set up in usual summer patterns
now Fall does not seem like a real transition period
Less or no bugs
very few turtles
less frogs... greatly diminished frog bite
A general lack of natural activity
blue herons showed up late and in fewer numbers
geese not so plentiful around the lake this year
Loons are back here early
J Francho reply :
I haven't noticed any difference in the topwater bite, and in fact I'm doing better with frogs than ever. Some of this might have to do with my skill level being reinforced by lots of frog bites. overall, this year has actually been one of the best years for fishing, and I'm looking forward to a great fall. Yes, weed growth is down, in particular, one lake, its completely void, and pea soup, but if you look at my last report, there are fish there. Tons of them.
Big Tom reply :
Muddy, I have noticed a lot of those things too.
Drastic decrease in grass growth.
The bass not being on deep points and flats like last summer.
The water temps right now are in the lower 80s. This time last year, they were right around 87-89 degrees.
I usually enjoy night fishing in the summer. The nights have been really cold compared to previous years. I think the cooler days are diminishing the night bite some because it has been a little off as well.
Something else: I have also went bluegill fishing a lot this year and noticed that the numbers are down for them too. Still fun and easy to catch but I really have to work for the bigger ones this year.
I wonder what the next couple of months will bring and what this means for winter. It may be a rough one.
bocabasser reply :
QuoteFall ?Who 's falling ? :-?
exactly what i was thinking. i can't wait for winter--then maybe the water temps will hit the mid 80's. facetiously speaking of course.
Muddy reply :
QuoteI haven't noticed any difference in the topwater bite, and in fact I'm doing better with frogs than ever. Some of this might have to do with my skill level being reinforced by lots of frog bites. overall, this year has actually been one of the best years for fishing, and I'm looking forward to a great fall. Yes, weed growth is down, in particular, one lake, its completely void, and pea soup, but if you look at my last report, there are fish there. Tons of them.
Hey John: we experienced just the opposite on the Chunk: The frog bite itself was almost non existent. One the back waters and slow pools of the susquehanna. it was about just like every other year. On our local ponds, the frog bite was literally non existent this year, very, confusing. Especially since your location and weather is not far off from here. :-/
Paul Roberts reply :
QuoteI have been seriously bass fishing real hard for three years now. All I know is that this year was a lot different than the last two years. Last year I was constantly hoping for those cloudy, rainy, cooler days. This year, those days are very common and the fishing has been better but a lot more unpredictable overall. Its disheartening to not catch them the way you think you will when everything you have learned is telling you the conditions are perfect for a big day on the lake.The main reason I enjoy summer fishing at all is because its at least more predictable than the other seasons. The early morning topwater bite is a lot different this year too. Its almost non-existant.
Predictability is a double-edged sword. It works when you understand the variables. If you don't, it is a prison.
J Francho reply :
QuoteQuoteI haven't noticed any difference in the topwater bite, and in fact I'm doing better with frogs than ever. Some of this might have to do with my skill level being reinforced by lots of frog bites. overall, this year has actually been one of the best years for fishing, and I'm looking forward to a great fall. Yes, weed growth is down, in particular, one lake, its completely void, and pea soup, but if you look at my last report, there are fish there. Tons of them.Hey John: we experienced just the opposite on the Chunk: The frog bite itself was almost non existent. One the back waters and slow pools of the susquehanna. it was about just like every other year. On our local ponds, the frog bite was literally non existent this year, very, confusing. Especially since your location and weather is not far off from here. :-/
My 3rd 6+ this year came on a black frog at the "lunch pond." Noel Good and I caught a pile of frog fish on Port Bay, two weeks ago, where the weed eater had removed all the weeds. We just walked them over what was left. I can't explain it. Perhaps because I do so many types fishing, maybe I'm doing something different? I don't use a log, or go back to look at old reports. I just fish what's dealt to me.
Now there are a couple of lakes where the weedlines are as perfect, health, and as strong as ever. I can't figure that one out. Many others are pretty weak in the weed department. Fishing in all has been super.
Tin reply :
It is nice and simple around here in fall.
Fish your typical ppe-spawn spots with the same baits and any green grass that is left on the lake.... ;D
Big Tom reply :
Paul, that is a lot of information in three sentences. I saw that you wrote that a minute ago and I have been thinking about it a whole lot since.
Predictability has gotten me into trouble more than once in my limited experiences. Pre-fishing for a recent tournament, we were catching them on shallow flats. I thought I had them figured out before we went and I was correct on where they were at. Two days later and tourney time, something changed and they were deeper and on very edges of those same flats. I don't know what made them move as they were still pre-spawn and the conditions were pretty stable for spring.
We jumped around on several different flats before we realized that they were deeper than we expected. We wasted too much time and it cost us a paycheck we could have easily made had we just been thinking a little differently. We finished less than an ounce out of the money and had them figured out as the tourney was ending.
Keeping an open mind is really hard when you can't figure out which nuance needs changed. Sometimes it is so small and other times I have found myself to be way off. I guess its all a part of learning and I am starting to learn enough to know when and how my approaches were wrong each time I go.
Thanks for the excellent advice you have given in this and many other threads.
Muddy reply :
QuoteQuoteQuoteI haven't noticed any difference in the topwater bite, and in fact I'm doing better with frogs than ever. Some of this might have to do with my skill level being reinforced by lots of frog bites. overall, this year has actually been one of the best years for fishing, and I'm looking forward to a great fall. Yes, weed growth is down, in particular, one lake, its completely void, and pea soup, but if you look at my last report, there are fish there. Tons of them.Hey John: we experienced just the opposite on the Chunk: The frog bite itself was almost non existent. One the back waters and slow pools of the susquehanna. it was about just like every other year. On our local ponds, the frog bite was literally non existent this year, very, confusing. Especially since your location and weather is not far off from here. :-/
My 3rd 6+ this year came on a black frog at the "lunch pond." Noel Good and I caught a pile of frog fish on Port Bay, two weeks ago, where the weed eater had removed all the weeds. We just walked them over what was left. I can't explain it. Perhaps because I do so many types fishing, maybe I'm doing something different? I don't use a log, or go back to look at old reports. I just fish what's dealt to me.
Now there are a couple of lakes where the weedlines are as perfect, health, and as strong as ever. I can't figure that one out. Many others are pretty weak in the weed department. Fishing in all has been super.
I hope to get some time fishing with you next year; I should pay you for the lessons ;D
Paul Roberts reply :
QuotePaul, that is a lot of information in three sentences. I saw that you wrote that a minute ago and I have been thinking about it a whole lot since.Predictability has gotten me into trouble more than once in my limited experiences. Pre-fishing for a recent tournament, we were catching them on shallow flats. I thought I had them figured out before we went and I was correct on where they were at. Two days later and tourney time, something changed and they were deeper and on very edges of those same flats. I don't know what made them move as they were still pre-spawn and the conditions were pretty stable for spring.
We jumped around on several different flats before we realized that they were deeper than we expected. We wasted too much time and it cost us a paycheck we could have easily made had we just been thinking a little differently. We finished less than an ounce out of the money and had them figured out as the tourney was ending.
Keeping an open mind is really hard when you can't figure out which nuance needs changed. Sometimes it is so small and other times I have found myself to be way off. I guess its all a part of learning and I am starting to learn enough to know when and how my approaches were wrong each time I go.
Thanks for the excellent advice you have given in this and many other threads.
You know, that's what I don't like about "pattern fishing". Patterns can be what you can bring to them I suppose. But they can also be a facsimile of knowledge -of the real variables that underlie the event. Patterns can be a lot of 'what' and 'when' but the line is often drawn at the 'why'. Many think the 'why' is unknowable, or too complex, and it can be. Often it's inaccessible.
But the why's, when we can get at them, are exportable. What and when is just something you're stuck with for the time being, until you are 'lucky' enough to see it again -and recognize it! Further, what helps one to adjust, adapt, to changes in a pattern -the hallmark of the top pros -is knowledge. Why something came about, or disintegrated, as I see it, is "the holy grail".
Don't get me wrong, pattern fishing makes perfect sense in a complex world where we have to make good in a short amount of time, with very limited information. The reality is probably that "time on the water" is a culmination of a whole lotta whats and whens.
But, I'm putting my efforts toward deeper knowledge -the 'whys'. Fool's errand? Mebbe. It certainly won't win me tournaments anytime soon, but that's OK, as Muddy says, it's about fun. Pick your poison.
Catt reply :
Knowledge is a process of piling up facts; wisdom lies in their simplification
Muddy reply :
Hey Keep your hat on while out on the bend, Grasshopper has been getting a little bit Zen lately ;D
J Francho reply :
Muddy, you should get up here for some fall smallie action.
Muddy reply :
This year is out, next year WATCH OUT!!!!!!!!!
Catt reply :
QuoteHey Keep your hat on while out on the bend, Grasshopper has been getting a little bit Zen lately ;D
As much as it strokes our egos to think we can figure out the why that will never happen.
The hallmark of the top pros lies in their simplification of the facts; they accept what they can not control and use what they can control to their advantage.
As strange of a year as it has been I still put both quality and quantity in the boat by simply ignoring preconceived seasonal pattern and relying on daily patterns.
Jeff H reply :
One of the things that bothered me most was the odd weedgrowth. On my home lake, there is one rather expansive tapering sand flat that has usually been home to some excellent broadleaf. This year it is gone, and instead covered with coontail.
Only one large hump retained it's normal weeds. Several of the smaller ones, normally covered, are completely bald. The crown depths of the smaller humps are only a few feet deeper than the large one.
Now, I've seen winters of deep lingering snow have an effect on the following summers weedgrowth, but this year was just really odd. We have not had any really good snow in some years now, but last winter was definitely more than we've had for awhile.
The loss of most of the good broadleaf on my lake (and others nearby that I fish) was perplexing, but the only thing I can guess at would relate it to the winters snow cover. I just don't know enough about this to be sure about it.
Wayne P. reply :
Catt, I pretty much have experienced the same. I don't fish history patterns, I fish present patterns.
mikey16 reply :
roger my pattern has been like this on all the lakes in central florida runing water ALWAYS produces slow down and let current work your bait.
top water till about 1 hour after sun-up and water that is normally shore and throw a orange/green craw mostly orange with green flake or junebug if found craws work in any sistuation of coarse i found the craw pattern with about 15 minutes left on day 2 in the the state championship
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