Big bass mystery 2024
N Florida Mike reply :
As some of you know,I live on a small lake in the Jax. Area,which I have fished for 0ver 40 years now.I have kept records of all the fish over 4 pounds I've caught in the last 10 years.The total over 4 is 49.
I've consistently caught these larger fish until this year.I haven't caught any over 4 since April last year.I have actually fished more this year than any year of the 10,with less results.My overall strategy has been to fish numbers because out of 25 fish or so,there will always be a good fish or two mixed in.But not lately.I have gone occasionally to bigger baits,with no result.I have even fished live bait ( which I am very experienced with here.)Nothing over 3 1/2.
Other than me,there is almost no fishing pressure.I have been having dink fests more and more,so be IM trying to weed them out,to get a larger size.Im working on that,because I know the population is too high and bait fish are low.
But I have released every one of these bigger fish so they are still there...any thoughts ?
The Bassman reply :
How old is the lake, or is it natural?
Reread the post and realize this isn't a valid question. 40 years negates any factors I had in mind. Sorry for the lack of attentiveness on my part. I wish I knew. That would certainly be discouraging. How is fishing for other species?
N Florida Mike reply :
The lake is basically a dammed up Creek that went into a cypress pond.Been that way since the mid fifties.
Bream fishing is fair at best,way down from what it once was.Catfishing is better than it was 10 years ago.
I know the lake so well,since I have wade fished every foot of it( except swimming over the deeper areas )That's why it's so strange.Lake record is 13 1/2 pounds.
Dwight Hottle reply :
Mike it sounds like you know the answer to the decline. Too many bass, too many catfish & not enough forage fish (bream). Your small lake almost mirrors many of the ponds that suffer the same problems.
You probably need to thin the herd by removing all bass under 15" & getting some of the catfish out. Adding bream fry like gills would help too. Good luck correcting the problems.
N Florida Mike reply :
Dwight,thanks for your response.Thats exactly the conclusion I've come to.But finding the existence big fish and catching them is what's strange to me.
Mosster47 reply :
This is a common problem in a lot of reservoirs out west with the introduction of spots and smallies. There are so many stunted fish that if you just go for numbers you will get just and only that unless you're in the narrow window of pre and post spawn.
That's why big baits became so popular out there. If you're throwing a solid 8" bait then you're probably safe from the barrage of 13" fish. 100 fish days can be a lot of fun, but it can get really old really quick in a lot of ways.
So, if you're looking for big fish in a sea of hungry little ones, throw something only the big ones will bite.
Gundog reply :
On 2/28/2017 at 1:25 AM, N Florida Mike said:Dwight,thanks for your response.Thats exactly the conclusion I've come to.But finding the existence big fish and catching them is what's strange to me.
Not sure what the life expectancy of a bass is but its possible that recent deaths due to old age and other natural causes have lowered the number of large bass. Combine that with an over-abundance of small bass and less baitfish seems to be your answer.
Spider reply :
I really can't say.
The average life span of a Florida largemouth is 9 years, though I have heard of largemouth of 16 years or older of the northern strain, in colder waters.
If this lake is seldom fished/ private, the smaller bass can over run a lake after a wile, the middle size bass need to be culled to prevent stunting as older bass die off. The introduction of bait fish will also help somewhat, after you cull some of the smaller fish.
Time to cull the heard, also keep in mind that bad weather/illness can cause large fish die offs.
I read an article from a fish biologist who explained this better, you can google it, as I don't have a link.
Here is one link: https://www.mdwfp.com/fishing-boating/pond-assistance/small-bass-issues.aspx
Time for a fish fry?
N Florida Mike reply :
Spider, That was a great article,thanks.
Spider reply :
On 2/28/2017 at 9:28 AM, N Florida Mike said:Spider, That was a great article,thanks.
You are welcome.
Tight lines.
"hamma" reply :
good stuff!, and all can be spot on,.... but did you ever consider that the bigger fish, that you've caught in the past, are becoming coherent to your presence?
If you have been fishing this place for over 40 years, YOU are the top predator to them, not some snaggly toothed old gator. lol,....Ok, I cant be sure. BUT.
I do know this.,... on my "home" lake. About fifteen years ago, I had to completely change the way I fished it, as I went stagnant fishing there for a while. Seemed the methods I grew accustomed to using there weren't working as they once did, almost as if the fish actually knew that jig and pig, was a rouse. So, I changed my offerings from a J&P to a worm, from a spinnerbait to a squarebill, jerkbait to a soft one,.. etc. And this did work. I was back in good graces with my beloved hogs,... I since moved and its been a few years since I've been back there. This year it's all due to change though. My "new" fishing buddy is due some hogs, so im gunna put him on some of what I call my "pig pens". And my old "home" lake? is right up in the top 3
N Florida Mike reply :
On 2/28/2017 at 7:09 PM, "hamma" said:good stuff!, and all can be spot on,.... but did you ever consider that the bigger fish, that you've caught in the past, are becoming coherent to your presence?
If you have been fishing this place for over 40 years, YOU are the top predator to them, not some snaggly toothed old gator. lol,....Ok, I cant be sure. BUT.
I do know this.,... on my "home" lake. About fifteen years ago, I had to completely change the way I fished it, as I went stagnant fishing there for a while. Seemed the methods I grew accustomed to using there weren't working as they once did, almost as if the fish actually knew that jig and pig, was a rouse. So, I changed my offerings from a J&P to a worm, from a spinnerbait to a squarebill, jerkbait to a soft one,.. etc. And this did work. I was back in good graces with my beloved hogs,... I since moved and its been a few years since I've been back there. This year it's all due to change though. My "new" fishing buddy is due some hogs, so im gunna put him on some of what I call my "pig pens". And my old "home" lake? is right up in the top 3
Yeah I've considered this too.I do rotate baits a lot.Im always looking for something they haven't seen.I went through my worm box full of old style worms from the 80s.Back then,these were what the bass loved in my lake.I tried them out for a couple hours with no success,but I'm going to try them again soon.
Truthfully though,I have probably lost a few that were over 4 in the 9 months since I've caught one.I dont believe in luck,but I have had some strange things happen this year with several nice fish being lost one way or another.
soflabasser reply :
I agree with @"hamma" that it might be time to try different techniques.Maybe try techniques you have not used in a long time or use a lure that the bass in that lake have not seen before.
RoLo reply :
A 40-year lookback period is capable of reflecting more than a short-term phenomenon.
It's possible that you're dealing with natural eutrophication for which there is no easy solution.
Eutrophication normally takes many decades or hundreds of years, but can be greatly expedited
by a metro area. A strong population of carp or catfish is a marker of later stage eutrophication.
As I'm sure you know, if the decline in quality bass is in fact due to eutrophication,
removing small bass would be little more effective that trying to bail out the ocean.
Roger
The Bassman reply :
On 3/1/2017 at 5:19 AM, RoLo said:A 40-year lookback period is capable of reflecting more than a short-term phenomenon.
It's possible that you're dealing with natural eutrophication for which there is no easy solution.
Eutrophication normally takes many decades or hundreds of years, but can be greatly expedited
by a metro area. A strong population of carp or catfish is a marker of late-stage eutrophication.
As I'm sure you know, if the decline in quality bass is in fact due to eutrophication,
taking out small bass would be little more effective that trying to bail out the ocean.
Roger
That makes good sense. Case in point, the world record bass was caught in southern GA in Lake Montgomery which is an unfishable swamp now.
N Florida Mike reply :
I dont think we're too far along toward Eutrophication.T he lake is just as clear as it was in the 70s.The same things that happen now happened then,algae , aquatic weed problems,abundance of catfish etc.We did have a bad fish kill in 2011,but it was due to overzealous treatment which resulted in oxygen depletion and so a lot of fish died.Whats interesting is that the bass have OVER recovered,but the bream have not.
Spider reply :
On 3/1/2017 at 6:32 AM, N Florida Mike said:I dont think we're too far along toward Eutrophication.T he lake is just as clear as it was in the 70s.The same things that happen now happened then,algae , aquatic weed problems,abundance of catfish etc.We did have a bad fish kill in 2011,but it was due to overzealous treatment which resulted in oxygen depletion and so a lot of fish died.Whats interesting is that the bass have OVER recovered,but the bream have not.
The small brim population, may be a symptom of the over population of bass. The brim not making it to adulthood.
N Florida Mike reply :
Trying to find a couple friends I can trust that would help me thin the herd but let the big girls go.
wdp reply :
On 3/1/2017 at 8:00 AM, N Florida Mike said:Trying to find a couple friends I can trust that would help me thin the herd but let the big girls go.
Mike....... buddy........ you know you can trust me. ?
Jk, I'd help ya out if I didn't live all the way over in MS.
OCdockskipper reply :
What seems odd is the sudden change, the near overnight disappearance of the bigger fish. If they are still there, then they are just living somewhere where they never have before (in most instances, that means suspending). Is there any reason why many of these fish would have chosen to move?
If they are no longer there, is there any new predator around?
I am not so sure overpopulation of smaller bass would make larger ones disappear. If anything, a bunch of 10" bass become a food source for the 4 lb plus fish. Out of curiosity, are the smaller fish healthy or skinny?
Brayberry reply :
On 3/1/2017 at 6:32 AM, N Florida Mike said:I dont think we're too far along toward Eutrophication.T he lake is just as clear as it was in the 70s.The same things that happen now happened then,algae , aquatic weed problems,abundance of catfish etc.We did have a bad fish kill in 2011,but it was due to overzealous treatment which resulted in oxygen depletion and so a lot of fish died.Whats interesting is that the bass have OVER recovered,but the bream have not.
This reminds me of a small local pond we have here (Virginia). This pond is about 7 acres, and had great fishing all thru the 90's, where I caught bass up to 7 lbs, and lots of 3 - 5 lbers. Then in about 2003 a hurricane came thru, and caused the lake to have low oxygen, and a large fish kill happened. Practically everything in the lake bigger then 4 inches died. Now since everything in the lake was the same size, the bluegill and crappie had no predators (at least none big enough to eat them). Since bluegill will spawn multiple times a year, and generally have a much higher rate of survival, they took over. Today the pond is packed with bluegill and crappie, but there isn't a bass in the pond bigger then 1.5 lbs. It was electroshocked recently and the biggest bass was 1.38 lbs, and only 3 were found bigger then 12 inches. Crappie and Bluegill eat anything and everything there is, and the bass can't grow big enough to eat the the bluegill. The biologist says there is a large amount of 4 - 6 inch bluegill but very few smaller, so they are just to big for the small bass.
"hamma" reply :
On 3/1/2017 at 6:32 AM, N Florida Mike said:We did have a bad fish kill in 2011,
I'd venture to say that this may have much more to do with your issue., than you think.
N Florida Mike reply :
On 3/1/2017 at 11:13 AM, OCdockskipper said:What seems odd is the sudden change, the near overnight disappearance of the bigger fish. If they are still there, then they are just living somewhere where they never have before (in most instances, that means suspending). Is there any reason why many of these fish would have chosen to move?
If they are no longer there, is there any new predator around?
I am not so sure overpopulation of smaller bass would make larger ones disappear. If anything, a bunch of 10" bass become a food source for the 4 lb plus fish. Out of curiosity, are the smaller fish healthy or skinny?
There has been no change that I can think of that would cause the bigger fish to change behavior.We did have hurricane Matthew in October , but we had less rain with it than a tropical storm a couple years ago.I even checked the creek/ outflow ditch after the storm and only found some little bream that had washed out.There are holes in that creek that would have had some bigger fish had they been there.Besides,we have a grass carp excluder gate across the little dam at my property,that was there for most of the storm.There at the end it got dislodged but all the big fish wouldn't have been there anyway .I fish there nearly every time after a heavy rain and the flow created there will cause fish to school there,but never big fish for some reason.
As for suspending fish,they don't have much room to suspend since the lake only averages 5 ft deep,with holes to 8 feet.While the topwater bite is usually slow,they traditionally clobber soft plastics being reeled in at or near the surface.The bigger fish are usually caught fishing slow on the bottom.I have tried unusual baits in various depths to no avail( talking bigger fish here)
As for predators,nothing out of the ordinary.We have had ospreys and owls since back when...An otter got in 10 years ago and cleaned out the catfish but the bass fishing didn't seem to be affected any.But we haven't seen him in 5-6 years now...We will have an occasional gator get in but not lately.
As for the health of the fish,they range from healthy to skinny,but more of them are skinny than usual.
The big fish usually bed in the same areas year after year and they don't seem to be there this year at all.Its kind of like a conference for a particular business.You don't see many of these people much all year until the conference,when they all show up.
When the fish bed,youll see them.But not much this year.I do have a good sized bed where I caught a 6 pounder last year but I have not seen the fish yet.
Thanks for the responses.Sorry for the lengthy post.
On 3/1/2017 at 7:56 PM, N Florida Mike said:There has been no change that I can think of that would cause the bigger fish to change behavior.We did have hurricane Matthew in October , but we had less rain with it than a tropical storm a couple years ago.I even checked the creek/ outflow ditch after the storm and only found some little bream that had washed out.There are holes in that creek that would have had some bigger fish had they been there.Besides,we have a grass carp excluder gate across the little dam at my property,that was there for most of the storm.There at the end it got dislodged but all the big fish wouldn't have been there anyway .I fish there nearly every time after a heavy rain and the flow created there will cause fish to school there,but never big fish for some reason.
As for suspending fish,they don't have much room to suspend since the lake only averages 5 ft deep,with holes to 8 feet.While the topwater bite is usually slow,they traditionally clobber soft plastics being reeled in at or near the surface.The bigger fish are usually caught fishing slow on the bottom.I have tried unusual baits in various depths to no avail( talking bigger fish here)
As for predators,nothing out of the ordinary.We have had ospreys and owls since back when...An otter got in 10 years ago and cleaned out the catfish but the bass fishing didn't seem to be affected any.But we haven't seen him in 5-6 years now...We will have an occasional gator get in but not lately.
As for the health of the fish,they range from healthy to skinny,but more of them are skinny than usual.
The big fish usually bed in the same areas year after year and they don't seem to be there this year at all.Its kind of like a conference for a particular business.You don't see many of these people much all year until the conference,when they all show up.
When the fish bed,youll see them.But not much this year.I do have a good sized bed where I caught a 6 pounder last year but I have not seen the fish yet.
Thanks for the responses.Sorry for the lengthy post.
On 3/1/2017 at 7:34 PM, "hamma" said:
I'd venture to say that this may have much more to do with your issue., than you think.
Maybe.The bass fishing was terrible in 2011 and 12.But has improved every year until this one.
soflabasser reply :
@N Florida Mike You can call the State and ask them to do a assessment of the lake.They can possibly stock the lake with bluegills if the bluegill population is low.These extra bluegills will hopefully spawn and make more bluegills for the bass to eat.
N Florida Mike reply :
I actually called them the other day but all they did was give me a list of fish farms that could come stock the lake.( For a price )
I may try again.After a rest.That fwc website is like a maze!
Catt reply :
My humble opinion 
Contact Bob Lusk at Pond Boss, Bob & Pond Boss are probably the best management consultants in the world.
N Florida Mike reply :
Thanks Catt. Been talking to them too.
N Florida Mike reply :
I'm starting to think I may need some new Genetics in here too.To my knowledge it was only stocked once way back.T here's no other way fish can get in,except for the once in a long time heavy rain that will overflow the creek into it.
But we have so many fish already I'm hesitant.
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