A question about fall 2024

Mobydick reply :

Something occured to me today...

In the fall, what part of a laydown should you fish, the main trunk towards the bottom and the primary branches, or the ends of the branches and toward the end of the tree?

Thanks!

Ian

txbass1 reply :

Fish it all

Grey Wolf reply :

Why wouldn't you fish all of it ?

Mobydick reply :

I did today, but say there is laydowns every 50 feet, and your not catching anything, but you know there in the trees, and you still cant get them to bite, where is the better place on the tree to concentrate on?

Ian

Catt reply :

As I approach a laydown or any cover for that matter I start at the outer edge & work inward until a pattern can be established telling me to do otherwise.

Grey Wolf reply :

You're still going to get the same answer. Why are you making it difficult for yourself ?

Mobydick reply :

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You're still going to get the same answer. Why are you making it difficult for yourself ?

Just making sure I had it worded right. I always fished the whole thing, I just never fished a lake with laydowns this late in the year, just tryin to learn.

Thanks!

Ian

Paul Roberts reply :

I think I understand the question. When faced with lots of cover, do you fish every inch of it? I guess if you know there are lots of fish in that cover, great. The more aggressive the better. If not, and esp in cold water, then painstakingly working through it all may not be the best use of your time. You don't want to get into a needle in the haystack situation, unless there are a lot of needles.

I guess I'd look at the bigger picture. What parts of that cover is closest to the key parts of a structural element? Closest to the creek bend, the steep drop, the edge of the flat, or has the best mix of cover? Which is warmest? Which appears to have baitfish? Which is the densest section of cover? Etc....

The best option may be reducing the size of the haystack. Sometimes LOTS of cover isn't best. If you can find a similar key structural element that has good but more isolated cover, you'll have less to work through. Key parts of a structure (for your water at that time) and adequate but more isolated cover, and you could find lots of needles in a small haystack.

If you can't discern anything unique, you may just have to hope you run into the bunch. My guess is those late fall bass will not be spread all through the cover. They'll be bunched up. You'll have to find them.

Use maps sonar and your eyes and knowledge of that water to find something that offers the best draw.

Paul Roberts reply :

Oh, I just re-read the question. And now I understand it LOL! Sorry for the tangent.

WRB reply :

Fall in the norteast; laydowns are temperary ambush sites for bass that are trageting baitfish and possibly crawdads, depending where the lay down is located and the weather.

Look for a lay downs that intersects deeper water or soil transitions for higher percentage cover. The outside deeper ambush site areas are you best places to fish during the fall period. If you are fishing a cold front, then try the center more dense cover areas of the lay down. Wood cover can hold baitfish like shad during the dark hours and crawdads all day. Start deep and give the shallow areas a few casts to keep them honest.

WRB

Tin reply :

Fish it all until you catch a fish and can get a pattern going. There are some days you will only get fish at the base towards the shore, and others you will only get them if you pitch the the jig over the trunk, hit a chipmunk on the tree, twirl around 3 times, say a Hail Mary, then they will hit it as they the jig is falling. Time on the h2o

Matt Fly reply :

Why do you assume the bass to be holding on laydowns? You haven't caught anything, yet have fished a bunch of them, so why have you concluded that they are holding on laydowns at this time of the year?

Simp reply :

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Why do you assume the bass to be holding on laydowns? You haven't caught anything, yet have fished a bunch of them, so why have you concluded that they are holding on laydowns at this time of the year?

Maybe because he is in PA and not TX with probably close to a 15-20 degree water temp difference. This time of year for him is very different then it is for you. I'd say lay downs and bushes in deep water are a good place to fish if his water temp is in the low 50s or lower.

fishfordollars reply :

I try to locate the laydowns, or any other structure or cover that are out away from all the rest. The results seem to be that the better fish will hang around the isolated areas as they seem to get less pressure. It works for me. Try it and I hope it helps. Good luck.

Pitchinkid reply :

Like others i say fish all of it. But im always flipping at the heart of the laydown first. i just feel that there is a better chance of a bigger bass being there. i would rather catch the one big one on the base of the tree than the 3 or 4 little or average fish on the outside limbs. Main key for me this time of year and probally for others, slow way down.

Bassnajr reply :

THANK YOU SIMP!!!!!!!!

I wish everyone would indicate where in the USA they are fishing, and that the answers are specific to that area. Tin and I were talking and most of the "articles" you read on here and elsewhere are from down South, no help to ME!!!

Right now where I am, it's 39* outside, no ice YET, but damm cold. How can a guy from Florida who has never fished Northern waters tell me how to fish the Fall up here?? It's not fair for me to ask, and not fair to try and get an answer. I think Tin should write an article for Bass Resource in his down time about NORTHERN BASS FISHING/FALL BASS FISHING!!!

All in favor say "Aye!!!"

PS If you are fishing ANY cover ANY time of the year and not catching fish, move to different cover. IMHO

Alan bassnajr

Pitchinkid reply :

aye and 42 degrees here in the WV

Paul Roberts reply :

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I think Tin should write an article for Bass Resource in his down time about NORTHERN BASS FISHING/FALL BASS FISHING!!!
All in favor say "Aye!!!"

Aye!!

Mobydick reply :

Aye!!

Thanks guys, that is a lot of good info, some that I didn't know!

Ian

Matt Fly reply :

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I did today, but say there is laydowns every 50 feet, and your not catching anything, but you know there in the trees, and you still cant get them to bite, where is the better place on the tree to concentrate on Ian

Simp,

simple question based on his answers, I'm very aware that the conditions are different all around the country.

If I fished a bunch of laydowns, I'm gonna pick them apart, I'm gonna look for some other fish attractors and leave the timber alone if no takers.

How do you know they are holding on laydowns? You fished a bunch already with no luck. Or is this hypythetical question?

Matt Fly reply :

Quote
THANK YOU SIMP!!!!!!!!
I wish everyone would indicate where in the USA they are fishing, and that the answers are specific to that area. Tin and I were talking and most of the "articles" you read on here and elsewhere are from down South, no help to ME!!!

Right now where I am, it's 39* outside, no ice YET, but damm cold. How can a guy from Florida who has never fished Northern waters tell me how to fish the Fall up here?? It's not fair for me to ask, and not fair to try and get an answer. I think Tin should write an article for Bass Resource in his down time about NORTHERN BASS FISHING/FALL BASS FISHING!!!

All in favor say "Aye!!!"

PS If you are fishing ANY cover ANY time of the year and not catching fish, move to different cover. IMHO

Alan bassnajr

You know, diesecting a tree, a peice of brush or a laydown is still a lay down in any part of the country.

So how does advice from the south on picking a laydown apart differ from the north on his initial question?

Has cabin fever already set in with you R.I. guys. Ya'll been real testy lately.

Simp reply :

Quote

Quote
THANK YOU SIMP!!!!!!!!
I wish everyone would indicate where in the USA they are fishing, and that the answers are specific to that area. Tin and I were talking and most of the "articles" you read on here and elsewhere are from down South, no help to ME!!!

Right now where I am, it's 39* outside, no ice YET, but damm cold. How can a guy from Florida who has never fished Northern waters tell me how to fish the Fall up here?? It's not fair for me to ask, and not fair to try and get an answer. I think Tin should write an article for Bass Resource in his down time about NORTHERN BASS FISHING/FALL BASS FISHING!!!

All in favor say "Aye!!!"

PS If you are fishing ANY cover ANY time of the year and not catching fish, move to different cover. IMHO

Alan bassnajr

You know, diesecting a tree, a peice of brush or a laydown is still a lay down in any part of the country.

So how does advice from the south on picking a laydown apart differ from the north on his initial question?

Has cabin fever already set in with you R.I. guys. Ya'll been real testy lately.

I'd say the difference may be the fish in Texas with warmer water are more likely to be roaming the shallows actively looking for food. The further north you go the sooner the bass are moving to a late fall/winter pattern. To me this would make me think the fish are becoming less active and looking for deeper water plus cover/structure. So it could effect a choice of a jig or a crank. It could effect what depth you should be looking for structure in. Do you need to land that jig on the fished head for it to bite or simply swim it just over the branch tips? With all that said this is still "fishing" and not simply "catching". A week ago I caught several fish in 20ft of water in submerged trees. Then today my friend fished a tourney and caught his limit on buzz baits and frogs. Personally I'd be looking for rocky areas. So far that's been my biggest pattern on lakes.

Bassnajr reply :

Simp,

I say we invite the texas and Florida guys up here for some REAL fall fishing!!! ;D

Bring your Moodandies guys!!!

North or South, fish react differently and are in different areas of a body of water when the water temp. is 60* or below. IMO

ajr

Matt Fly reply :

His question again, was how to fish a laydown. He didn't say I live in Minnesota, water temps are steady at 50 degrees and yada yada yada.

He even said he fished a bunch with no luck. Again my question was, if you have been fishing a bunch of laydowns, and haven't caught a single one, how do you know they are there in the first place? The answer is not because you live in Texas and we live in the north. lol

He didn't even ask for baits to try, he asked how to fish a laydown period. Where would you throw?

Any other information would be off topic since none of those facts are neccessary to fish a laydown.

how fast the temp drops up north depends on how big the body of water is as well and he didn't say he was fishing 100,000 surface acres or 3000 acres, by the way, one of those will cool down faster than the other, or if it was attached to a river, stream or man made or natural body of water.

All factors in determining how fast a lake will cool. All of which playes no part of the simple question, how would you fish a laydown.

By the way, off topic again, a bass anatiomy is still the same. What drives a bass is water temp.

I know lakes are made differently across the country, but if you know the lake prey and their fall habits, factor in a bass is colded blooded, and you still have the factors to peice together based on water temp, no mater what part of the hemisphere you live in.

Catt reply :

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Simp,
I say we invite the texas and Florida guys up here for some REAL fall fishing!!! ;D

Bring your Moodandies guys!!!

North or South, fish react differently and are in different areas of a body of water when the water temp. is 60* or below. IMO

ajr

Could you handle the embarrassment?

Catt reply :

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His question again, was how to fish a laydown. He didn't say I live in Minnesota, water temps are steady at 50 degrees and yada yada yada.
He even said he fished a bunch with no luck. Again my question was, if you have been fishing a bunch of laydowns, and haven't caught a single one, how do you know they are there in the first place? The answer is not because you live in Texas and we live in the north. lol

He didn't even ask for baits to try, he asked how to fish a laydown period. Where would you throw?

Any other information would be off topic since none of those facts are neccessary to fish a laydown.

how fast the temp drops up north depends on how big the body of water is as well and he didn't say he was fishing 100,000 surface acres or 3000 acres, by the way, one of those will cool down faster than the other, or if it was attached to a river, stream or man made or natural body of water.

All factors in determining how fast a lake will cool. All of which playes no part of the simple question, how would you fish a laydown.

By the way, off topic again, a bass anatiomy is still the same. What drives a bass is water temp.

I know lakes are made differently across the country, but if you know the lake prey and their fall habits, factor in a bass is colded blooded, and you still have the factors to peice together based on water temp, no mater what part of the hemisphere you live in.

Exactly

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote
By the way, off topic again, a bass anatiomy is still the same. What drives a bass is water temp.
I know lakes are made differently across the country, but if you know the lake prey and their fall habits, factor in a bass is colded blooded, and you still have the factors to peice together based on water temp, no mater what part of the hemisphere you live in.

Excellent post Matt Fly.

The only thing I'd add to that first sentence is that prey availability appears to factor in huge as a motivating factor for bass activity, even in temperature extremes. Southern waters generally produce more food than northern waters, and this plays a big role in bass activity levels and growth.

And you are right that 50F is 50F to most bass N or S. This is esp true because most bass we chase N to S are not native strains specifically adapted to their waters. Most of us share the same challenges in terms of basic bass behavior and conditions (clarity, sky, weather).

Then there's that cabin fever thing...go easy on us. We can only tolerate that until...about...February

Muddy reply :

Quote
Fall in the norteast; laydowns are temperary ambush sites for bass that are trageting baitfish and possibly crawdads, depending where the lay down is located and the weather.
Look for a lay downs that intersects deeper water or soil transitions for higher percentage cover. The outside deeper ambush site areas are you best places to fish during the fall period. If you are fishing a cold front, then try the center more dense cover areas of the lay down. Wood cover can hold baitfish like shad during the dark hours and crawdads all day. Start deep and give the shallow areas a few casts to keep them honest.

WRB

Even though I have not caught the "biggest bass on the forum" This is very wrong information for fishing the North East. As was stated before Tin and or LBH should really respond to this.

Once the water is in the low 50's and turnover is done ( On lakes) forget the shallows for the most part.

Crawfish are key, and sunken rock piles and splits in creek channels are the key, as well as open water over said locations.

A good SLOW, I mean SLOWLY worked jig, starting deep and working your way up is the ticket. Crank bait can also do damage, but the slower you crawl at this time the better your results And for a reason I can not determine yet, wake baits, on top of these areas also catchs fish, no where as sucessful as the bottom.

I have this experience from spending way too many years fishing structure adjacent to deep water, with varied weak results. Once I went to deeper structure, and fished like Catt talked about my success has been phenominal. It makes more sense to fish where the better fish are, than looking for the very occasional straggler.

Moby I am East of you, but this has changed my sucess on Mauch Chunk,Tuscarora,Harvey's Lake, and Lilly Lake. It has for the last 2 years, since I changed up

As for rivers, I am learning the in's and outs from my friend Dan, but school has this on hold until next season.

Tin reply :

Up here as soon as that water starts hitting upper/mid 50's the fish will start going from grass patch to grass patch until all the grassbeds are dead. Then (if you fish a lake that doesn't have shad or a big baitfish population, which is most lakes up here) the fish will start searching for craws in the shallows. And as it gets colder and colder they become more sluggish and stay around the warmest, closest shallow water cover they can find, (usually always laydowns and trees on my lakes). It seems as though they get comfy and lazy and don't want expend their energy to move to their winter areas.

For some reason the fish up here don't listen to the books much (because they for all you southern guys) and it seems like every cold water period, you will catch a lot more fish off timber (if avaliable), over docks, rocks, or any other cover. And if you find a birch tree in the water, you will catch fish, it is just an automatic up here for me. It doesn't matter the water temp either, I won a tourney last year in late November pitching jigs at wood in less than a foot of water with 41* water temps. Second was off drop-shotting in the 15-20' zone pulling fish out of their winter haunts. You can always catch fish off shallow timber even when the larger numbers head to their wintering holes. As long as it gives them enough shade, but is also in the sunlight a majority of the day.

And Catt, embarrassment? You wouldn't be, because you wouldn't know what hit ya. These lakes in the fall/winter would make you and your Gene Lerew craws and worms dread fishing.

Muddy reply :

Tin: Smallies or LMB, becuse here for LMB, one the grass beds are brown amd mucky The bigger ladies are deep once the water gets to 52 degrees and lower. Most of the lakes here have some minnows, the Chunk even has some shad. The two main forage is mostly Bream and crawfish.

2 other questions

Since I do not drop shot, could the fish you are picking off with the drop shot rig, be the same ones I am catching with cranks ( Lnur Jensen Speed Traps)

Do you think not only the biology of the fish, but the much less pressure on the fish account for the bigger fish taken in the late fall?

Tin reply :

All largemouth Muddy. The T I won was in a small feeder stream about 20' wide. And I had three fish over 4 pounds, and up here I consider them "bigger ladies". It's easier for them to make a pass of a shoreline and pick off a couple craws in the span of 10' than chase bait all over the place.

1. I don't drop-shot in the fall and winter either Muddy, but I'm sure the guys who do are catching the same fish you are. As much as I love it I don't because I would rather throw jigs and have an area all to myself than have 3 boats near me trying to fish the same drop-off or basin.

2. The reason bigger fish are taken in the fall is because they are bigger in the fall. That simple, they feed and feed and feed non stop. So thats why you catch those 12" fish that are really fat and weigh a pound and a half. And why fish have a 2 pound head but are 3's. They are all like footballs.

Muddy reply :

Feeder stream that explains it. All of the smaller man madelakes have the same issue by us, small /highland flood control imp0undments less than 500 acres( Except Harveys) they all have a stump filled less than 2 ft high ( drawn down now) kind of very exposed bay on the inlet side and a deep end by the dam, they really do not offer a kind of arm or feedet stream, that explains it.In the Chunk you have this area,followed by an area around 10 to 12 ft that holds a killer grass be in the summer. Yhen a steep drop off with the submerged creek channel that splits in two. That creek bed abd the sunken treess and rock piles is where i am getting all my better fish.

The shallow side does not produce until the lilly pads and warmer water set up

I am Pm'ng you a map

Mobydick reply :

When people have already been through the area and fished the laydowns and caught fish, do the fish become uncertain about hitting another jig? I wasn't sure if maybe they moved to a different part of the tree, like the bigger branches and thicker stuff when they feel pressured, and that was why I wasn't catching any. I hope I dont make this thread too much more confusing than I already did. Thanks for the good info!

Ian

Catt reply :

Tin y'all would be embarrassed when y'all found out Ole Catt has more than 1 trick up his sleeve

Tin reply :

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Tin y'all would be embarrassed when y'all found out Ole Catt has more than 1 trick up his sleeve

Well that rat-l-trap would work, but just not in that ugly fire engine red color.

Matt Fly reply :

Quote

Quote
Tin y'all would be embarrassed when y'all found out Ole Catt has more than 1 trick up his sleeve

Well that rat-l-trap would work, but just not in that ugly fire engine red color.

Thats funny. Back to the drawing board for old Catt.

Catt reply :

Quote

Quote

Quote
Tin y'all would be embarrassed when y'all found out Ole Catt has more than 1 trick up his sleeve

Well that rat-l-trap would work, but just not in that ugly fire engine red color.

Thats funny. Back to the drawing board for old Catt.

Y'all wouldn't want to put money on that would y'all

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote
When people have already been through the area and fished the laydowns and caught fish, do the fish become uncertain about hitting another jig? I wasn't sure if maybe they moved to a different part of the tree, like the bigger branches and thicker stuff when they feel pressured, and that was why I wasn't catching any. I hope I dont make this thread too much more confusing than I already did. Thanks for the good info!

Ian, you aren't making this thread confusing. The rest of us are. Good stuff though, much of it. Sounds like some new threads could be started.

So, you've got some bass in that wood...

The bass can certainly become jaded, esp to a similar presentation, or just by sloppy presentation. But, the one going through ahead of you very likely missed fish, may have picked up only the more aggressive fish, and may not have fished it as accurately as it could be. They may miss more or bigger fish holding deeper, or in the denser areas, as you suggest. Definitely worth trying. This in fact is Denny Brauer's strength. And yes, fish could be moved deeper in by fishing pressure. I'd work harder on getting in to the darker places, and spend more time at it. Your "speed' will come from efficiency.

If you are confident you can get a jig into such places -do it. That's a place where jigs shine. I'd also have a follow up: a worm, creature, craw, tube, or SB. Multiple casts to each good spot, and/or letting it hang longer in there, could turn a few.

If you suspect there's a good catch in there, re-visit it after things have settled down some -if that's an option.

Muddy reply :

I guess you fellas are in areas that are still into early fall conditions, we have had 12 inches of snow already and several freezes, early winter here. Below Avg temps for at least the next 2 weeks.

J Francho reply :

Wow, I didn't realize you NE PA guys get hit so quickly. We're a bit insulated by the lake, but once she cools, its over - lake effect madness.

A little March bassin' from shore on the lake:

Muddy reply :

Hey John: I have been living here for 15 years this Thanksgiving and it never got cold and stayed cold so early! Freeland, less than 5 miles from here got 17 inches of snow in that late Oct. storm. We have more snow on the way . The fish are already setting up for winter and I took my boat off the chunk early this year.

We had a drought this summer and fall, and the lake was very shallow and it was too hard to drag the tinny in.I havebeen going out with a couple of friends that have em on trailers.

Tusacrora is cold and deep all year long, had a very thin layer of ice on the shallow end last weekend after 2 X 25 degree nights!

Paul Roberts reply :

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I won a tourney last year in late November pitching jigs at wood in less than a foot of water with 41* water temps.

Tin, do you remember if that day was sunny, or overcast? Which side of the lake? Is there by any chance groundwater in that trib?

Tin reply :

Sunny but the morning temps were in the low-mid 20's. Coldest boat ride of my life. The feeder was on the northern side of the lake. It flows out of a lake a couple miles north of the lake I was fishing. Water was really ripping threw it.

pm sent Paul

Muddy reply :

Since I am under no pressure to get a 5 bass limit , I would rather spend my time slowly jigging deep spots and finding a bigger fish.

Glenn reply :

Carolina rigged crankbaits. Yes it's unorthodox, but it works!

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