All You Bankbeaters/Chunker/Winders 2024

fishfordollars reply :

If you watched those guys fishing those lipless baits yesterday you should have learned enough to double your catch ratios.

They wern't fishing the banks even though they were fishing them shallow. The retrieves were varied, and a lot was done with the rod instead of the reel handle.

If you were really paying attention you got a great lesson in early season cranking, fish location, and bass behavior in cold weather.

Tin reply :

Yup, what they were doing was just plain textbook for lack of a better term, Notice the bank beaters (Omori, Biffle, and Ike) finished behind them. ;D

grimlin reply :

Oh i did!

rat-l-trapper reply :

I've fished with lipless cranks a lot, but never like these guys were doing. Ike really stood out to me, he seemed to be working his bait with much sharper jerks than other pros. I haven't been catching many fish this winter and after watching this tournament I think I know why. I've been fishing really slow with jigs and plastics. I forget who but someone said that the fish at lay lake weren't in the mood to eat,which is why people were going for that reaction bite. I'm definitely gonna try that style of fishing next time out.

Paul Roberts reply :

Great thread idea Jack.

I'll pop this in from another related thread on Classic lipless tactics from the Tackle section. Presentation tactics through my filter (my 2 cents):

Quote
So everyone agrees KVD seemed to do a strait forward retrieve and bumped it off stuff - he did not seem to do the pick up fall down retrieve, which seems to work too for others - I think this fact shows that there is by far not one way to fish this bait!

No. If I read you right, I think you may be missing the subleties: he did catch many on the fall. Worth throwing out there bc I think a lot of people think (and I'm not saying you necessarily -I'm jumping off from your post) try to get fish to come to their lures. Most often, it's the other way around; You have to bring the lure TO the fish, and then make it do something special to elicit strikes. What that "special" is is altered by conditions.

I'm sure he did a bunch of things through the day. He said he did have some key strike zones he was hitting -literally. Doesn't mean his fish did not hit on the pause or drop. When you see him retrieving straight he was not expecting a bite -he was moving his plug into position for a bite. BIG difference. He wasn't expecting the fish to come to him -esp in the cold water -he was going to them. As he described it, he had some key objects. One was a particular stump he caught 7 fish off of. He would retrieve to it, hit the stump, then let the bait 'flutter'. That's when they would hit it. He said his area was "chocked full of bass" but he had to do some tricks to dupe them. He caught them one at a time, saying it wasn't easy fishing.

Lures, even Classic winners, are not magic all by themselves -it's specifically where and how they are used that elicits the bites. Unless he's got new fish moving in (and apparently didn't so much this time around), this becomes more and more the case as his fish get worked over.

As to brand, color, etc... this is less important than the stump. Kevin said he used only two colors, but one brand -the Red Eye. What was most important was where he put it and how that lure behaved: I'm assuming the behavior on the fall was something he was taking advantage of. Again, I thought it was interesting that the top producing lipless in BC were all baits that would fall horizontally, and not tumble on the drop. I wonder how much this entered in? What a falling or pausing bait offers is the bass an opportunity to make a sure kill. This becomes more important in cold water. In warmer water, other baits, like Traps and Spots might have worked better.

SkeetyCCTX reply :

Did you just lable Ike as a "bank-beater?"

I would hardly call Mike I. a bankbeater!

Tin reply :

Quote
Did you just lable Ike as a "bank-beater?"
I would hardly call Mike I. a bankbeater!

From all the videos it looked that way. He was targeting grass beds on the banks.

BigEbass reply :

hahaha, so since Mike finished in ? (what place again?) - he is inferior to the other 5-6 others in front of him? Cmon! Lets not forget and admire the people that earned qualification and even a top 10 finish - it is remarkable in of itself - I am pretty sure that Ike and the others that were "behind" the leaders are inciteful fisherman - furthermore - every single angler that even qualified for this classic deserves hardcore respect in my book - sure some made some better judements (god knows KVD has some darn good judgement apparently). But lets not shoot down the likes of biffle, Ike, etc - are they KVD, nope, they lost to him - he out gunned em, out thunk em - he deserves props, but so do the others biting at his heels

Catt reply :

Here is what some have gleaned from this thread.

"Did you just label Ike as a "bank-beater?"

"I would hardly call Mike I. a bankbeater!"

"so since Mike finished in ? (what place again?) - he is inferior to the other 5-6 others in front of him? Cmon!"

Here's what I gleaned from this thread!

"They weren't fishing the banks even though they were fishing them shallow. The retrieves were varied, and a lot was done with the rod instead of the reel handle."

"If you were really paying attention you got a great lesson in early season cranking, fish location, and bass behavior in cold weather."

" As to brand, color, etc... this is less important than the stump. Kevin said he used only two colors, but one brand -the Red Eye. What was most important was where he put it and how that lure behaved"

Tin reply :

All I was saying was the guys who were fishing off-shore structure finished higher than those who were fishing the banks.

Who said there is anything wrong with a bank-beater? Biffle, Brauer, and for the most park Hank Parker made their livings off banks. Even Clunn lived on the banks in the Arkansas and James River Classics he won. With the exception of a few, to my knowledge a lot of the Classic (when they were held in July or August) were won by guys fishing banks or shoreline cover.

fishfordollars reply :

Tin, i didn't take it that way at all. I knew what you were referring to.

Some would rather argue and start you know what instead of trying to learn.

Some areas are set up for fishing the banks. It's the knowledge knowing when to and when to back off that can make the difference in a successful day.

Tin reply :

Yup, that is the way. Here was I was thinking...

Winter time Classics...

Clausen, fishing offshore Lilly stems

Duckett, pitching and lipliess cranking offshore grass patches

Alton Jones, football jigging a deep channel with stumps

Skeet, (river system but still middle of a pocket/backwater fishing stumps and grass)

KVD, offshore grass and a channel in a cove.

Past summer Classics in hot weather...

2005 (exception, bridge pilings on a river system)

2004 Omori flipping and cranking laydowns on a bank

2003 Ike, but given it was the Delta there is not too much that isn't on a bank

2002 Yelas, flipping a bank

2001 KVD flipping a bank (if I remember correctly)

2000 Woo, (cold temps and smallies so i think this is an exception)

1999 Hite with shoreline grass

1998 Brauer...what else does he do

1997-looking back to even Cochran's win in the 80's all won on banks, docks, brush, shoreline veggies, ect...

See the pattern here...lol

Catt reply :

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See the pattern here...lol

Yelp fish the most productive pattern at a given time, typical example of what's necessary it win.

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
I've fished with lipless cranks a lot, but never like these guys were doing. Ike really stood out to me, he seemed to be working his bait with much sharper jerks than other pros. I haven't been catching many fish this winter and after watching this tournament I think I know why. I've been fishing really slow with jigs and plastics. I forget who but someone said that the fish at lay lake weren't in the mood to eat,which is why people were going for that reaction bite. I'm definitely gonna try that style of fishing next time out.

Watch your catch ratio and size increase.

Just don't give up on it if you go out and struggle the first few times you try it. You will have slow days, but it is a learning process. Many days it is a grind and you may only get 5-7 bites. They should be an increase over what some of the others are doing though. Stick with it and when you pop that 18-24 pound five fish limit you will know it has been worth the effort.

Good luck, let us know how you do.

Jack

Tin reply :

Quote

Quote
See the pattern here...lol

Yelp fish the most productive pattern at a given time, typical example of what's necessary it win.

Given, but very interesting that just about every Classic Winner (when it was in the heat of the summer) was fishing shoreline cover. And all the cold-water tournies were won off-shore.

Why is this?

Technological advances in fish-finders in the past 5 years?

The limited amount of practice so they immediatley go to where they know fish will be?

And if this is true if they were given more practice time would they find off-shore areas and would weights go up as a result?

Catt reply :

Regardless of amount of practice time each Pro evaluates the given set of circumstances and determines the most productive pattern be it shallow or deep.

On a yearly average deep water structure will out produce shallow water patterns hands down.

Then the body of water determines the definition of "deep"

Tin reply :

Understood, but...

I would think with the limited practice time, and areas offshore can be either really hot or cold in the summer months I would think a lot of guys would live by the idea that you can always find fish shallow. Where-as that theory kind of flips around in the cold water.

Catt reply :

Seasonal patterns, weather patterns, location of bait etc determines which will likely be more productive not amount of practice time.

Example KVD stated in an interview he did not pre-fish the lake prior to the allotted time period because he didn't not want any preconceived notions as to fish location other than those determine on day 1 of the tournament.

BigEbass reply :

Quote
Seasonal patterns, weather patterns, location of bait etc determines which will likely be more productive not amount of practice time.
Example KVD stated in an interview he did not pre-fish the lake prior to the allotted time period because he didn't not want any preconceived notions as to fish location other than those determine on day 1 of the tournament.

wow, that is fascinating for sure!

stratos 375 reply :

" On a yearly average deep water structure will out produce

shallow water patterns hands down"

You're joking..... right??

fishfordollars reply :

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" On a yearly average deep water structure will out produce
shallow water patterns hands down"

You're joking..... right??

If he is, I'm not. Heck yes it will.

Deep water is revelant though. Ten ft can be deep water in some areas. Thirty ft in others. Give me a deeper water pattern any day.

littlefisher reply :

Quote

Quote
" On a yearly average deep water structure will out produce
shallow water patterns hands down"

You're joking..... right??

If he is, I'm not. Heck yes it will.

Deep water is revelant though. Ten ft can be deep water in some areas. Thirty ft in others. Give me a deeper water pattern any day.

I like what you are saying here. Granted I do think at certain times of the year, I will take shallow water and banks all day long. But I love love love to jig fish in 10-30ft depending on the lake, structure, etc. I feel comfortable to be able to back off if the flipping/shallow water bite dies off, knowing I can probably plug a few deep with a jig.

Back to the Classic discussion though. I think this year I am going to buy a couple new cranking rods and try out some lipless cranks. I've always liked fishing them but just never had the confidence in them.

BigEbass reply :

Are there many anglers that really ignore on the whole the "deeper" water and only just "beat the bank" ....this is a question becuase I am just starting to learn about pro bass fisherman. Surely the top pros make it this far due to their versatility across the country in different waters which I would think force them to fish at various depths in various regions in various conditions? Could be wrong though...?

Catt reply :

A huge precentage of anglers are never farther than casting distance from the bank not realizing that for every bass caught off the bank there are 5 behind him many of the about where their outboard is.

stratos 375 reply :

I can't say for sure what goes on down in your neck of the woods, but up here when we're talkin deep water structure fishin, it's 15 to 25 deep, even up to 30 plus. I think it's safe to say the majority of guys are throwin jigs of one form or another. The others are perhaps usin jiggin spoons, little George's, or if you're sufficiently talented enough, crankbaits which can be induced to hit those depths. That's 3 or 4 lures we're talkin about. Three of them are specialized to a degree for that application only.

You're gonna tell me that on an "average" situation they are going to beat the following lures "HANDS DOWN":

buzzers, spinnerbaits, senkos, flukes, poppers, spooks, jerkbaits, 1/2 the crankbaits sold, tubes, frogs, toads and rats, hard stickbaits and shallow water pitched worms and jigs???

I don't believe it. If Roland Martin called me tonite and personally and told me that it was true, I still wouldn't believe it.

Add to the above, that up here, really the only time you see guys offshore is in the heat of the summer, when fish can be tough to locate & catch shalllow. The other three seasons, I'll fish the baits I mentioned above, shallow, and cover 20 more times the water in a day.

If you took a good angler, versed in shallow & deep, put him on an "average" lake, hour for hour, my moneys on shallow water and the baits I mentioned.

I'm in no way trying to get into a wagging match, and respect your opinions, it means it's obviously working for you.

I really enjoy the shallow / deep banter, and is all in the spirit of cyberspace fun. I also *** you guys who are fortunate enough to fish the mega-impoundments, it's a totally different world up here. Small waters, HP restrictions, and ungodly angling pressure, some of it actually intelligent.

I've never been a member of any online fishing forum before, but you guys seem to be good sports about it all.

Tin reply :

From my experiences all over lakes in New England and New York, a drop-shot, Caolina-rig, football jig, or tube in 20+ feet of water will outproduce all of the baits you mentioned. Fact is off-shore fish are less pressured the deeper you go, so if you locate them, chances are it is lights out.

fishfordollars reply :

I'm not sure why the deeper water concerns or intimidates a lot of fishermen. Granted it takes time to locate and figure out the deeper water locations. I would much rather spend the time to locate a school of larger fish wadded up off a hump or river bend than to throw my arm off running miles of unproductive water and catch a fish every two hours or so.

Going through a bunch of dinks, trying to cull up a few ounces at a time is not my idea of fun. I would rather anchor out off a point, river bend, or hump and run a half dozen of those spots knowing the next bite could up my weight by pounds instead of ounces.

Stratos 375, don't get me wrong, early and when the weather is right I totally agree the shallows are the place to be. It's just not the place I prefer to spend the day. It takes courage(For the lack of a better word) to leave 1-2 pounders biting shallow and move offshore for 3-4 bites. Just what I have the most confidence in. Remember, if you see a boat 600-800 yards off shore, don't assume that they are in 20-30 ft. of water either. We have lots of 3-5 ft. of water out in the middle of our lakes.

12-15 pounds in this area won't win a dime. I put a sack weighing 18.93 across the scales years ago on toledo. The tournament paid 35 places. I did not draw a check. It just takes the deeper water, or access to it to consistently put the larger fish in the boat.

I have alway heard when you are fishing the bank 90% of the fish are behind you.

stratos 375 reply :

Hi Tin, as I read your post and noticed the word experiences, in your statement, I was curious, just how much experience are we talkin to make that statement?

How many years you been standing in the bow of a bass boat? How many days a year do you fish? Like I said, just curious as to the experience level of someone who makes that statement.

Although far from what I consider to be an expert,

I can tell you that the statements I made are based on standing in a Stratos boat for the last 28 years, fishing a minimum of 140 days a year, from thousand islands to the big O. I'm not an armchair angler, a "researcher" or some type of Googlemeister, or a you tuber. What I speak of comes right from my pea sized brain to the keyboard.

J Francho reply :

Plus, you only fish with Senkos. ;D

stratos 375 reply :

tin, you're reading more into it than is actually there, there was no "drift" or hidden anger agenda, just mildly curious as to who I was talkin to.

live long & prosper

BigEbass reply :

Now children, play nice or timeout

bmadd reply :

Quote
Hi Tin, as I read your post and noticed the word experiences, in your statement, I was curious, just how much experience are we talkin to make that statement?
How many years you been standing in the bow of a bass boat? How many days a year do you fish? Like I said, just curious as to the experience level of someone who makes that statement.

Although far from what I consider to be an expert,

I can tell you that the statements I made are based on standing in a Stratos boat for the last 28 years, fishing a minimum of 140 days a year, from thousand islands to the big O. I'm not an armchair angler, a "researcher" or some type of Googlemeister, or a you tuber. What I speak of comes right from my pea sized brain to the keyboard.

Not to be picky, but Stratos has only been manufacturing boats for 27

BigEbass reply :

I am no expert and only get to fish very little at this point in my young busy life. But can I just pose this general thought about this deep vs. shallow argument.

Bass live in deep and shallow - true?

You can catch many bass in the shallows, and you can catch big ones there too?

You can also do the same at spots more than a cast from the bank fore sure including in "deep" water.

But does one really as a generalization beat out the other? Are the biggest bass caught solely close to shore or far off shore? Are there not big huge bass caught in both historicall (anyone have such data)?

Surely big bass will move to all sorts of spots depending on many many factors guys right?

Example - I am sure some of you have caught some really big ones out offshore right? I have read bill siemantels book and he firmly believes you can cover all areas to catch big bass - and he seems pretty good at it - he methodically casts banks on shore and structure off shore and has caught big ones on both (including stopping his boat and fishing from the bank). He mentions too in his book that bass may come up from the depths to slam something on topwater if the opportunity presents itself.

So fish it shallow or deep - I dont care - but I do think that there is value in being able to know the structure that is "off the banks" right?

I think this is like a black vs. white argument perhaps in a world that is more grey?

stratos 375 reply :

bmad, you're right. I did say I had a pea size brain.

Paul Roberts reply :

Deep or shallow isn't an argument, even much of a discussion, about two ponds side by side, much less across an entire country.

Waters vary tremendously, and the bass in them with it.

I think, and Jack would have to speak on this, that his original post was that deliberate probing of "the unseen" won the Classic, not "chuck-n-wind" -which I take to mean, casting blindly hoping bass will find your lure. This is not new, but was especially well highlighted in this event.

BigEbass reply :

Quote
Deep or shallow isn't an argument, even much of a discussion, about two ponds side by side, much less across an entire country.
Waters vary tremendously, and the bass in them with it.

I think, and Jack would have to speak on this, that his original post was that deliberate probing of "the unseen" won the Classic, not "chuck-n-wind" -which I take to mean, casting blindly hoping bass will find your lure. This is not new, but was especially well highlighted in this event.

Makes perfect since - but my question was: are there really many pros (for example in the classic) who really "chunk-n-wind" in this sort of "thoughtless" manner? These guys/gals who qualify for a classic surely are all pretty versatile folks?

Paul Roberts reply :

Quote

Quote
Deep or shallow isn't an argument, even much of a discussion, about two ponds side by side, much less across an entire country.
Waters vary tremendously, and the bass in them with it.

I think, and Jack would have to speak on this, that his original post was that deliberate probing of "the unseen" won the Classic, not "chuck-n-wind" -which I take to mean, casting blindly hoping bass will find your lure. This is not new, but was especially well highlighted in this event.

Makes perfect since - but my question was: are there really many pros (for example in the classic) who really "chunk-n-wind" in this sort of "thoughtless" manner? These guys/gals who qualify for a classic surely are all pretty versatile folks?

BigEbass, I wasn't responding to you, just the tack and tone of the thread in general. Yes, this isn't news, but the particular use of lipless (a classic chuck-n-wind bait) in this event was especially illustrative. I took that as Jack's intent.

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
Deep or shallow isn't an argument, even much of a discussion, about two ponds side by side, much less across an entire country.
Waters vary tremendously, and the bass in them with it.

I think, and Jack would have to speak on this, that his original post was that deliberate probing of "the unseen" won the Classic, not "chuck-n-wind" -which I take to mean, casting blindly hoping bass will find your lure. This is not new, but was especially well highlighted in this event.

Exactly Paul. As KVD stated, he had a stump out off a point that reloaded and he caught fish each time he visited it. He was not blind casting. He was covering the submerged, isloated areas he had discovered in practice.

A person that had circled the pocket he was in would have missed 90% of the targets he was after. Most of the fish were sitting out in the ditch in the middle of the pocket and moving up at different times of the day. Each day he was on the water he learned a little more about the area, where to throw, and how to present it. He even stated that he was bringing the lure to the fish. This is part of what makes him so great.

Without knowing what was out there it would have been a random shot at getting bit.

Paul Roberts reply :

I expected so, and why I thought this was such a potentially great thread; a great opportunity to learn how fishing really works -esp bass fishing.

Strike windows and strike zones are real, and often small -esp so in colder water. Fish those, instead of straining the water. Fishing randomly results in random catches.

From Louie Stout's recent article on VanDam:

"VanDam's mechanics aren't superior to other top pros, but his ability to read water is far superior, Zona adds. That's why, he says, VanDam is able to fish behind other pros and score bigger bags.

He's very underrated as far as how he reads offshore structure, Zona explains. He finds the juice on the juice of a sweet spot, and everything else is irrelevant. He also finds those spots with his lures rather than his electronics, so he knows how to maximize each cast. That's a rare trait. "

Strikes me, the comment about electronics...Oh he uses them, but as in Lay, he knew enough about the area with minimal scouting that it held large numbers of fish. It had all the elements. The large scale work was done. What would make him a contender in the tournament was accurately mining that water. It was very fun watching it unfold.

whitwolf reply :

I don't have anything to add other than the fact that this thread Is the exact reason I read this website each day. Thanks gentleman.

BigEbass reply :

I think as a relative beginner I likely find myself making blind casts relatively speaking - I try to fish "good spots" - points, flats, humps, around cover, etc.) but sometimes when I am in a good area I try to simply fan cast out across points or in such an area as KVD was in - likely I would not have "mined" it as well as he did as I would not know the smallest best areas within a given "good spot" - I will be much more critical of such in the future.....

Side note: I was impressed with Russ Lanes come back with his relocation - he made up some serious ground as I recall -

Paul Roberts reply :

There are reasons most anglers, esp newbs, "chuck-n-wind" -many of them good reasons. A lot of anglers AVOID hitting weeds, wood and the bottom so they don't get hung up, or get 'slimed'. It takes some time to become adept enough to first know where precisely in the water column you are, and then how to fish through cover without getting hung or wadded.

Only after this, can you start to really effectively probe with your tackle. Many anglers never get this far, or if they do, they really don't appreciate how small strike zones and windows can be -or get intimidated by them. Big catches for most anglers come when the "timing" is 'just right', and strike windows are especially large -needles in the haystack really. KVD doesn't get so intimidated by small windows; his confidence lies in his knowledge and precision. He says he likes a tough bite bc it cuts the field -the random catches of someone being in the right place at the right time.

Top pros are well honed. The "whole other level" they are at is not some magic, it's a very real connection to what's important on any piece of a piece of water. KVD, apparently, does it quicker than most. And he's not infallible. He is subject to the same conditions that the fish suffer too. Once again, KVD does not have God by the cajones LOL, it's the other way around. Kevin just doesn't squirm quite so much as the others, when the big guy tightens his grip. ;D OK...I couldn't resist that analogy.

I too was impressed by Lane's 3rd day -he went fishin' by gum!

fishfordollars reply :

Quote
I think as a relative beginner I likely find myself making blind casts relatively speaking - I try to fish "good spots" - points, flats, humps, around cover, etc.) but sometimes when I am in a good area I try to simply fan cast out across points or in such an area as KVD was in - likely I would not have "mined" it as well as he did as I would not know the smallest best areas within a given "good spot" - I will be much more critical of such in the future.....
Side note: I was impressed with Russ Lanes come back with his relocation - he made up some serious ground as I recall -

Don't get discouraged if you struggle. Keep at it. Make a mental note each time the lure hits something. If possible circle it so you can retrieve the lure from different angles, or let it rest and return later. When you get bit, take a moment to think why, what. Why the fish hit, what angle, water depth, weather, cloud cover or not. See, it goes on and on. Not every question will have an answer. You're searching for the few variables that got you bit. After a while it may become second nature. Run it into anything you can during the retrieve, vary the speed, and kill it after you come buy a bush, log, grass edge, etc. Most of the strikes will come at these times.

Many fish a lipless lure just in the winter and spring. I fish it year round.

BigEbass reply :

sorry I hijacked the thread a bit....thanks for the advice guys - my primary problem is finding the weeds at this point - real shallow I can obviously, but mostly below 3-4 feet in my local waters you cant see jack - my sonar that came on my boat (bass tracker 16 ft) is pretty crummy I think - I really cant differentiate much except for depth and contours - so I do try to just drag the bottom and rip through weeds - problem down here afer spring is that weeds become much more prominent and thick and when I cannot see it clearly, you get too think into them and too much stuff on the lure then - I am looking into new electronics this summer and get some marker buoys to better find submerged weedlines and workem....thanks for the advice guys - I will be workin on it hardcore starting this weekend!

FishinDaddy reply :

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I don't have anything to add other than the fact that this thread Is the exact reason I read this website each day. Thanks gentleman.

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