UHHHMMMM??? Bluegill? 2025
airborne_angler reply :
Obviously the bait worked for him,but I cant see where anyone(including the fish) would mistake this for a Bluegill...Any Thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/user/purefishingtv2008#p/u/132/vUqdhy38Lag
SoFlaBassAddict reply :
The colors. At least the one the showed in the sidebar had that dark body with chartreuse tips on it. Bluegill typically have a bright yellow or chartreuse color right on the tips of their tail and fins.
Grey Wolf reply :
You're giving the fish too much credit.
Fat-G reply :
It's the size, color, and profile.
I agree with the old man^
;D ;D ;D
airborne_angler reply :
That bait along with other creatures(Brushog) screams CRAWDAD (to me at least)
Scorcher214 reply :
I would like to wonder what a pink trick worm looks like a bass. Have you ever seen a pink worm in the water?
Mattlures reply :
I dont think he is giving the fish ENOUGH credit.
The bass might be up shallow because of the bluegill and they are feeding on them but they dont eat that bait thinking its a gill. Its just some other kind of food thats in front of them while they are feeding
Chaz Hickcox reply :
QuoteI dont think he is giving the fish ENOUGH credit.The bass might be up shallow because of the bluegill and they are feeding on them but they dont eat that bait thinking its a gill. Its just some other kind of food thats in front of them while they are feeding
X2
I think he is just saying what he needs to to justify him getting paid to use the bait. It clearly doesn't walk or quack so it ain't no duck (or in this case bluegill), but alas it is easy food! I'm in the thinking that it really doesn't matter what the bait is, if they can easily suck it, ambush it, or smash it, they'll eat it, IMO.
Paul Roberts reply :
Great question ...
Good responses above.
I've actually been in a very similar situation and used a green pumpkin creature bait on bass targeting bluegills.
Some important factors:
-visibility (bass can see very well under high vis conditions)
-bass expectations (search image)
-bass aggressiveness
Most lures do a lousy job of imitation. With appropriate (reduced) visibility, it's easier to get away with crude mimicry. Under reduced visib, aggressive bass with a bluegill search image in place, l agree with Fat-G.
I also agree with Mattlures. And agree with something he posted a while back, that efforts at imitation can actually hurt you. Often it's better to offer something close in size, profile, and color, but remain somewhat amorphous. Under all but the worst visibility conditions, it's darn tough to fool a fish (via "imitation) with a chunk of wood or plastic tethered to a line.
I'll take this a little further... as a long-time fly-fisherman:
I came into trout fishing (naively) as a confirmed anti-"hatch matcher". I liked a story told by famed angler Joe Humphreys (a master presentationist):
A bunch of anglers were sitting around a shop "latinizing" about the insect hatches and what flies would work. A grizzly old angler comes in after catching 50 trout. "What fly did you use!" they all stammered. "This little gray basterd here," he quips.
But... after playing the game long enough now, I understand it much better. It's been said that "presentation is 90% of the game". But, I'll add that, once you have presentation down, having an effective imitation becomes huge. HUGE.
Granted trout can be especially "selective". And the difficulties inherent in still water, and the creation of effective imitations large enough for bass, are a challenge. But I still feel that the road to truly realistic imitation is one that hasn't been traveled very far for bass. I'm holding out that there will be breakthroughs that will happen in lure design that will up the anti.
Would love to hear Mattlures thoughts on this, with his experience as a realistic lure designer and sight fisher.
Raul reply :
I am completely anti match the hatch anything, for numerous reasons
- Even the greatest most realistic best painted bait is just that, painted, painted to look to our eyes like something we can identify why ? because fish camouflage and the camouflage mechanisms are ruled by the CNS ( which your bait doesn 't have ) by impulses sent to specialized cells on the fish skin called chromatophores ( which your bait doesn 't have either ) that give the baitfish a certain pattern and pattern depends on many factors like water clarity, water color, depth, light penetration, season, gender & mood to name a few; in the real world the chances of that exact paint job being the exact same pattern the baitfish have in a particular place at a particular time and many other particulars are inifinitesimal; so your bait doesn 't really mimic anything.
- Fish do not see with the level of definition we can, so they don 't see all that pretty paint job
- Back on the subject of the paint, well, it 's painted as we see it, not as the way the fish can see it, they see colors in a diferent way we do.
- Lots of baits specially cranksbaits have a built in action but it depends on who is behind the handle the one that makes better use of that built in action, presentation represents the largest percentage of the imitation. In other words, you are the one that makes an excellent, great, good or bad imitation of something that 's edible and an esy prey.
Crowcommander reply :
Because we don't keep and eat our Bass anymore,its hard to tell sometimes what Bass are actually feeding on. I agree that the bait he's fishing is mimicking bluegill. The best bait on Falcon to mimick Tolopia is a magnum BrushHog in Watermellon Candy.
evrgladesbasser reply :
QuoteQuoteI dont think he is giving the fish ENOUGH credit.The bass might be up shallow because of the bluegill and they are feeding on them but they dont eat that bait thinking its a gill. Its just some other kind of food thats in front of them while they are feeding
X2
I think he is just saying what he needs to to justify him getting paid to use the bait. It clearly doesn't walk or quack so it ain't no duck (or in this case bluegill), but alas it is easy food! I'm in the thinking that it really doesn't matter what the bait is, if they can easily suck it, ambush it, or smash it, they'll eat it, IMO.
Agreed...at the end of the day, a sponsored fisherman is nothing but a salesman with a pretty shirt.
@Raul- I'm quite sure at this point you have a few extra genes in your body specifically geared towards fishing. Very informative post as usual.
gobig reply :
This guy thinks it looks just like a bluegill
bigbill reply :
It doesn't look like a bluegill to me. But the conditions of the water and the hues does change the colors and appearance of out lures/baits at times. If we think about it and digest what were looking at what does a spinnerbait really look like to a bass? Your right he is pumping up the sales too. Lets face it in these times things are very very slow. I'm getting my shippments of new stuff from all the manufacturers/shops very fast over when times were good i'd wait for months to get my stuff now i have it in days. Even my truck parts are showing up in 24hrs too.
I purchase any bluegill/bream/redear colored bait targeting larger bass. The bigger bass eat mainly craws and panfish as there main diet thats how they got to be that big.
One of my most successful cranks in this pattern has been the norman thin "n" in redear. But i shake rattle and roll it very violently sometimes in my presentation. Just shake the rod tip and watch the lure go wild near you to practice it then cast it out and try it. The bass want that little lure so bad.... 
I really can't believe a brushog type bait can imitate a bluegill. Its more of a craw type lure you guys are right.
Paul Roberts reply :
QuoteI am completely anti match the hatch anything, for numerous reasons- Even the greatest most realistic best painted bait is just that, painted, painted to look to our eyes like something we can identify why ? because fish camouflage and the camouflage mechanisms are ruled by the CNS ( which your bait doesn 't have ) by impulses sent to specialized cells on the fish skin called chromatophores ( which your bait doesn 't have either ) that give the baitfish a certain pattern and pattern depends on many factors like water clarity, water color, depth, light penetration, season, gender & mood to name a few; in the real world the chances of that exact paint job being the exact same pattern the baitfish have in a particular place at a particular time and many other particulars are inifinitesimal; so your bait doesn 't really mimic anything.
- Fish do not see with the level of definition we can, so they don 't see all that pretty paint job
- Back on the subject of the paint, well, it 's painted as we see it, not as the way the fish can see it, they see colors in a diferent way we do.
- Lots of baits specially cranksbaits have a built in action but it depends on who is behind the handle the one that makes better use of that built in action, presentation represents the largest percentage of the imitation. In other words, you are the one that makes an excellent, great, good or bad imitation of something that 's edible and an esy prey.
You are right about the paint. But, I don't think paint will be where the 'breakthroughs' will happen. It'll likely be in motion. Some baits are easier to fish than others--like CBs that 'hunt'--for the chuck-n-wind crowd. And I've had baits that were a LOT harder for fish to recognize as fake. Color/finish helps (in large part to inc or dec visibility) but action is where the devil lies. Another example has been the striped bass crowd. Once upon a time it was all streamers and poppers. There is now hatch-matching being done effectively (to the exclusion of other techniques) by some observant and innovative anglers.
Maybe nothing will change in lure design (any further) for bass. But I'm too often amazed at human ingenuity.
gobig reply :
I do not know how much more realistic some of the swimbaits have to get. Some are still crude in design but there are several bait companies making baits that look super real and swim like the real deal.
Raul reply :
They swim like the real deal .... are you shure of that ?
Fish swim mainly by paddling the caudal fin, the pectoral fins are mainly used for direction ( siwmbaits with extended pectoral fins are the least ) and really if you take a good look at many of the prey fish ( like minnows and shiners ) they don 't "swim" but dart from one place to the other and in one direction to the other. Let 's take for example one of the most successful swimbaits around, the Huddie, or one of my favorites, Matt 's Baby bass, the only part of the bait that moves is the tail, the point being that in the real world the tail of the fish that bass prey upon doesn 't move side to side in the frequency at which the tail of the swimbait moves, so a swimming swimbait doesn 't exactly swim like the real deal
Now a little about what you mention, yes, many swimbaits are crude in design and looks, there are others that to our eyes look like the real deal and many of them are just plain fish catchers, let 's a look at swimbaits like the Slammer, man that thing is UGLY ! and you got the LC Real California Premium which is beautiful however the Slammer is a fish catcher. So a good design plus a good angler is what makes a good bait or a bad bait regardless of how ugly or pretty it is.
gobig reply :
QuoteThey swim like the real deal .... are you shure of that ?
No they don't have motorized moving eyes and gill plates or emit pheromones but the tail wag on a Hud is very similar to a trout. If you look closely at it as it swims, there is head movement also. Which gives it a realistic swimming profile. I have also read that the design of the tail on the Hud creates a vortex very similar to what a trout creates while swimming. I do not think every part of realism needs to be achieved. Nor do I think bass take the time to see if the pectoral fins are moving in the proper direction. The baits you mentioned are just the tip of the iceberg. There are far more realistic baits out there. Not that they are some kind of magic bullet that will catch you more fish. I was eluding to the fact of how much more realism do we need? And I was thinking about a slammer and how crude yet successful it is. That's all. I think we have similar ideas based on your previous posts I have read.
bigbill reply :
With some lures the only thing i can really match is the dying minnow with some of the plastic minnows. While some of the swimbaits look real to me or close to it they really haven't done much for me in catching fish. I been tossing the 9" castaic rainbow every so often and while it looks real near the surface the hogs that i know are there haven't hit it yet. I got lucky with this $30 lure on sale for $9.99. I'm sure it will work sooner or later as all baits seen to do.
If it looks out of the norm and it catches fish i really don't care what you call it. I've had success with redshad brushhogs but they mimic craws right?
The craws here seem to have black backs with red bodies. BB
Paul Roberts reply :
In response to both "how accurate do we need", and "angler (presentation) skill":
I had a neat experience. On an extended backpacking run one of my tasks was to help feed the crew. I took to fishing live stonefly nymphs on 2lb line and a tiny hook to small stream brook trout. When those brookies saw the nymph coming they quivered in anticipation. If I executed a natural (drag free) drift, just the way those brookies were expecting to see food, I got bit. But, if I got the slightest drag, those trout would let the bait pass as "not food". The mind blower was that those were real nymphs, with body and legs wriggling away. But for the fish considering food, those bugs (with any drag) were outta mind, outta sight! LOL.
The upshot: As Raul says, a bait, no matter how "realistic" it is, does not fish by itself.
scrutch reply :
QuoteIn response to both "how accurate do we need", and "angler (presentation) skill":I had a neat experience. On an extended backpacking run one of my tasks was to help feed the crew. I took to fishing live stonefly nymphs on 2lb line and a tiny hook to small stream brook trout. When those brookies saw the nymph coming they quivered in anticipation. If I executed a natural (drag free) drift, just the way those brookies were expecting to see food, I got bit. But, if I got the slightest drag, those trout would let the bait pass as "not food". The mind blower was that those were real nymphs, with body and legs wriggling away. But for the fish considering food, those bugs (with any drag) were outta mind, outta sight! LOL.
The upshot: As Raul says, a bait, no matter how "realistic" it is, does not fish by itself.
exactly! Case-in-point: the zara spook. It's a painted stick with hooks attached, but it catches fish when fished using the proper technique.
gobig reply :
QuoteI had a neat experience. On an extended backpacking run one of my tasks was to help feed the crew. I took to fishing live stonefly nymphs on 2lb line and a tiny hook to small stream brook trout. When those brookies saw the nymph coming they quivered in anticipation. If I executed a natural (drag free) drift, just the way those brookies were expecting to see food, I got bit. But, if I got the slightest drag, those trout would let the bait pass as "not food". The mind blower was that those were real nymphs, with body and legs wriggling away. But for the fish considering food, those bugs (with any drag) were outta mind, outta sight! LOL.The upshot: As Raul says, a bait, no matter how "realistic" it is, does not fish by itself.
This is a good example of what I was trying to get at. The presentation was more important than the bait. The drag free aspect was critical. I think what I was trying to say was misunderstood.
Mattlures reply :
Paul my opinion of realism of lures is this. A realistic bait presented properly will out fish any other artificial bait and most times live bait. The big difference in my theory and most other guys is, I think 98% of realistic artifiicials are not realistic. Its kinda all or nothing for me. To me a crankbait that has an ultra realistic paintjob is absolutley NOT realistic. For me realistic means if you put it in the water next to the real thing that you could be fooled into thinking your looking at a real living creature. If it isnt in that 2% or even 1% I would rather have a non detailed bait with a simple pattern. Obviously I am partial to swimbaits because I feel that a couple of them are in this tiny percentage. I will use the Huddleston for an example since I preferr not to spam with my baits. When the Hudd first came out, they were stupid easy. Bass didnt know what hit them. They would be eating real trout and a Hudd would come by and they would eat it. It looks like a trout and it swims just like a drugged freashly stocked trout. It it a correct size and colors. A ton of big bass fell to this bait. Now somebody else might look at a lesser trout swimbait and think it looks just as good for half the price.Well this is were the realism matters. Those small differences to cheap fisherman might seem irelevent but to a weary old bass they are the difference between a bite and a follow or just a look. So my basic stance is I want something that is ultra realistic in every way possible or something simple, I dont realy like all the baits inbetween.
airborne_angler reply :
And Matt...Speaking of realism....
Kowen117 reply :
QuoteI would like to wonder what a pink trick worm looks like a bass. Have you ever seen a pink worm in the water?
Have you seen any worm in the water
(and dont say snake)
And yes I agree it is color and action, the bluegill were on beds that means they would have been close to the bottom and possibly even feeding on other bluegill eggs. The bass were then feeding on them ;D
Randall reply :
Here is my take on realism. Fish key in on certain movements, vibrations, colors, profiles, locations and even speeds. Fish are not keyed in on all these things at one time in most cases. The closer you get though the better your odds of catching fish conditioned to feed with these things working as a trigger. Sometimes it just may be a color and you can use any bait with the right color. The next time it may be color and speed.
The thing about something like a GOOD swimbait is that a few bait companies like Huddleston, Mattlures, 3:16 are good enough to cover more of the things a bass are conditioned to in one bait. When placed into the right hands good swimbaits I think will catch more and larger fish. But, you can still always be outfished at times with a brushhog or a crankbait because fished are just conditioned and don't sit there and reason about the bait.
Mattlures reply :
airborne_angler Thanks for that link, I love that video. That pour sunfish is trying to get it on with my swimbait ;D ;D
Randall as usual I agree with you. I have had many days where I broke down and put my swimbait rod away and started throwing worms and caught alot of fish. I have had all my best numbers days on simple undetailed baits like worms and creatures etc. But I have had all my best quality days on swimbaits and sight fishing(usualy with swimbaits and jigs)
I like my regular baits simple and undetailed(no eyes and scales on worms or jigs) But I like my realistic baits like swimbaits and craws to look so real that a person might be fooled without taking a real good look.
Eddie Munster reply :
It ain't the arrow; it's the Indian.............
Providing the arrow is decent, that is.
Paul Roberts reply :
Thanks all. Good stuff.
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