Titan 10.5 vs Hobie PA12 2025
freelancer27 reply :
Hi all,
with the tax return money I am planning to buy my first fishing kayak. I have test driven the PA 12 and the Outback so far and I am leaning more towards the PA12 since it was far more stable for me (the Outback also felt a bit cheap, it felt like it was bending when I paddled it hard, also in the end it is 'just' 20 pounds heavier than the PA12). I would like to test drive the Titan 10.5 but I am not sure if there is a dealer in my area (Marin County, CA) where this would be possible.
I am 6'3. 210 pounds and I love to sight fish. I would be using the kayak 60% on lakes and 40% inshore. I need to carry the kayak on my Honda Civic (Thule 480 R roof rack + going to buy something like a Rhino Rack T-Load Hitch Mount). I have to store the kayak outside.
Per outing I would like to carry a minimum of 6 rods with me and a couple of tackle boxes. Standing is important to me since I want to be able to pitch and flip.
Anybody that had to make the same decision between these options. What are the cons and pros in your opinion?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Seb.
nighthawk25 reply :
Not sure I can help but I bought the Titan 10.5 from ACK. It arrived yesterday. If you have a milkcrate your putting on, you'll have planty of more space for a small cooler and a medium sized tackle box behind the seat. It's also pretty heavy to handle alone but it should be doable.
Hawkeye21 reply :
I've been looking at the Titan 10.5 a lot lately and it looks amazing. Greg Blanchard, who has a great YouTube channel, has a Titan 10.5 and he got his from a dealer in Lodi, CA. I did a quick search and saw there's also a dealer in Sacramento called Adventure Sports Kayaks City.
Darren. reply :
First, congrats on getting a tax refund - at all - let alone
big enough for one of these boyaks (Boat-Kayak)!!
I haven't had a refund in going on 20 years. 
That said, I have only sat in the PA12, and really like the
new 180 Mirage drive. The Titan is getting some rave
reviews as an absolute beast, as well. You'd have to take
your pick as to whether you want the complete pedal
motion or the push-push of the PA12 and the extra reach
to go into reverse.
If I were to drop the $$ today, I'd probably opt for the
PA12 although I would like to at least sit in the Titan to be
certain. Not sure I'd drop to the 10.5' tho. And I'm 5'7".
It would be more maneuverable though.
I currently have a Native Ultimate 12 which is super stable,
and is motorized, so I've got a pretty comfy rig, but not as
much storage options as either PA or Titan.
Bent reply :
The options you listed are pretty heavy, make sure you check the max roof weight rating on your car (and don't forget the weight of the rack system itself). Even if the roof rack is rated for more than enough weight, the roof of your car might top out at 100 lbs for example. To be honest I don't know how risky it is to exceed those ratings in terms of safety and/or liability, but I wouldn't do it without some research.
IgotWood reply :
Both are great boats. I'll be completely honest with you though...I have slight buyer's remorse with my Hobie that I bought last year. I bought the Outback. I love the boat, but I don't care much for the design of the 180 drive. It works great, but the shifting device has broken on me a few times. It's really not that big of a deal, but for the expense I feel like every bit of the boat and drive should be 100% problem-free within the first year, at least!
Darren. reply :
On 1/31/2018 at 6:04 AM, IgotWood said:Both are great boats. I'll be completely honest with you though...I have slight buyer's remorse with my Hobie that I bought last year. I bought the Outback. I love the boat, but I don't care much for the design of the 180 drive. It works great, but the shifting device has broken on me a few times. It's really not that big of a deal, but for the expense I feel like every bit of the boat and drive should be 100% problem-free within the first year, at least!
I've heard that about the drive, and also heard Hobie has
fixed that in 180 2.0. But I agree, that should have been
vetted and tested to the extreme before release.
Have you done the fixes that are out there? (Paracord, etc.)
Hawkeye21 reply :
Isn't the price difference about $700 between the two? I've always felt Hobies were really overpriced.
freelancer27 reply :
Thanks guys!
Yeah, there is a big price difference. Hobie does have some better quality imo. The seat on the hobie is really top notch. the one from the Titan looks rather cheap (I have not tested it yet though).
Really need to get my butt into one of those to judge.
IgotWood reply :
On 1/31/2018 at 6:10 AM, Darren. said:I've heard that about the drive, and also heard Hobie has
fixed that in 180 2.0. But I agree, that should have been
vetted and tested to the extreme before release.
Have you done the fixes that are out there? (Paracord, etc.)
I haven't seen any of the fixes yet. Whenever mine broke, I brought it to the shop and let them deal with it. The more warranty claims the dealers submit, the faster the manufacturer takes action to correct the problem (I hoped). Seems like I wasn't the only one with this problem seeing as they have already dropped a version 2.0.
Darren. reply :
On 1/31/2018 at 6:23 AM, IgotWood said:I haven't seen any of the fixes yet. Whenever mine broke, I brought it to the shop and let them deal with it. The more warranty claims the dealers submit, the faster the manufacturer takes action to correct the problem (I hoped). Seems like I wasn't the only one with this problem seeing as they have already dropped a version 2.0.
Here's one fix:
IgotWood reply :
On 1/31/2018 at 6:14 AM, freelancer27 said:Thanks guys!
Yeah, there is a big price difference. Hobie does have some better quality imo. The seat on the hobie is really top notch. the one from the Titan looks rather cheap (I have not tested it yet though).
Really need to get my butt into one of those to judge.
On 1/31/2018 at 6:12 AM, Hawkeye21 said:Isn't the price difference about $700 between the two? I've always felt Hobies were really overpriced.
The seat really is nice. I can sit on that thing all day without any discomfort! And the hull itself seems almost bulletproof. Everything on the Hobie's are solid, well built, and well designed.....except that early model 180 drive. LOL! Are they overpriced? I don't know. They were the only one's out there with a pedal drive for a very long time, and their boats were always very well built. You get what you pay for, I guess. Now that every company has a pedal system, it will be interesting to see what happens with the prices in the coming years.
Fishingmickey reply :
Howdy Y'all,
I figured I'd throw my two cents into the ring. I recently purchased a Hobie PA14 with the 180 drive. I have had no issues with breakage of the reversing pull handles. I do try to be gentle when I switch and not throw it into reverse when I am moving forward at 3 or 4 mph. Nor do I yank the handles hard to get them to reverse. I have had the kayak since last August and fished it a bunch. I test drove the Titan 13.5 last summer (rented it for a tournament) so it was a eight hour test drive.
All three of these kayaks are too heavy to roof top on a car "IMHO". You can probably do it for sure but your asking for trouble. All three are big heavy boats exceeding 130#'s hull weight. Hobie PA12 weighs in at 130#'s, PA14 - 145#s and the Titan 13.5 is 178#'s. Not sure where your coming up with a Titan 10.5 from. Is it a new 2018 model? Native has the Slayer 10 propel that weighs in at a mere 94#'s. So if your planning on car topping one of those beasts you might think about getting a pickup with a roof rack or get a trailer and tow your car with the yak on the roof.
Fishingmickey
Darren. reply :
On 1/31/2018 at 6:51 AM, Fishingmickey said:Howdy Y'all,
I figured I'd throw my two cents into the ring. I recently purchased a Hobie PA14 with the 180 drive. I have had no issues with breakage of the reversing pull handles. I do try to be gentle when I switch and not throw it into reverse when I am moving forward at 3 or 4 mph. Nor do I yank the handles hard to get them to reverse. I have had the kayak since last August and fished it a bunch. I test drove the Titan 13.5 last summer (rented it for a tournament) so it was a eight hour test drive.
All three of these kayaks are too heavy to roof top on a car "IMHO". You can probably do it for sure but your asking for trouble. All three are big heavy boats exceeding 130#'s hull weight. Hobie PA12 weighs in at 130#'s, PA14 - 145#s and the Titan 13.5 is 178#'s. Not sure where your coming up with a Titan 10.5 from. Is it a new 2018 model? Native has the Slayer 10 propel that weighs in at a mere 94#'s. So if your planning on car topping one of those beasts you might think about getting a pickup with a roof rack or get a trailer and tow your car with the yak on the roof.
Fishingmickey
https://nativewatercraft.com/product/titan-propel-10-5/
Edited by Darren.
Replaced link and pic with vid.
Darren. reply :
I rescind my previous comment that'd I'd "probably"
opt for the PA12. Been watching vids of the Titan 10.5
and holy cow it looks awesome and almost perfect for
what I would want to use it for. Would be a tough
decision w/o testing each.
I bet Hobie would do well with a PA 10.5, eh?
Not to mention cost: 10.5 $2499 vs PA12 $3399
68camaro reply :
I test drove the Titan 10.5 and the PA 12 and bought the PA12. It was a very tough decision but ultimately it came down to several factors. A couple points were the larger cargo area of a 12' was a plus, also the area in front of you is much bigger on the PA12 and the Titan area's seemed cramped.
The Mirage 180 was huge factor for me, I like having fins lay flat against hull when going extermely shallow or over a log or something, plus the mirage is so effortless. I can peddle all day and with great seat never cramped or felt uncomfortable. I bought mine last summer and haven't had any problenms with Mirage drive and I and not easy on gear.
The other thing I like about Hobie was its width, weight and stability. However, like mentioned earlier I would be very careful to car top this beast.
freelancer27 reply :
On 1/31/2018 at 6:51 AM, Fishingmickey said:Howdy Y'all,
I figured I'd throw my two cents into the ring. I recently purchased a Hobie PA14 with the 180 drive. I have had no issues with breakage of the reversing pull handles. I do try to be gentle when I switch and not throw it into reverse when I am moving forward at 3 or 4 mph. Nor do I yank the handles hard to get them to reverse. I have had the kayak since last August and fished it a bunch. I test drove the Titan 13.5 last summer (rented it for a tournament) so it was a eight hour test drive.
All three of these kayaks are too heavy to roof top on a car "IMHO". You can probably do it for sure but your asking for trouble. All three are big heavy boats exceeding 130#'s hull weight. Hobie PA12 weighs in at 130#'s, PA14 - 145#s and the Titan 13.5 is 178#'s. Not sure where your coming up with a Titan 10.5 from. Is it a new 2018 model? Native has the Slayer 10 propel that weighs in at a mere 94#'s. So if your planning on car topping one of those beasts you might think about getting a pickup with a roof rack or get a trailer and tow your car with the yak on the roof.
Fishingmickey
I hear you on the weight. THat is why I am getting one of those https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwjwvJmv9YDZAhUUZX4KHV4yA54YABAKGgJwYw&sig=AOD64_0Tg8lBh3eP5mvh5uFiT9GSAnoVUA&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwjSnpOv9YDZAhUO5GMKHTx5AEEQ9aACCEg&adurl=
That should take off some weight from the roof/rack.
68camaro reply :
Good idea, I use a hitch extender and put PA12 in rear of Jeep Grand Cherokee. I thought about carrying on top of Jeep but at my age no way do I want to deal with that.
Darren. reply :
On 1/31/2018 at 8:13 AM, freelancer27 said:I hear you on the weight. THat is why I am getting one of those https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwjwvJmv9YDZAhUUZX4KHV4yA54YABAKGgJwYw&sig=AOD64_0Tg8lBh3eP5mvh5uFiT9GSAnoVUA&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwjSnpOv9YDZAhUO5GMKHTx5AEEQ9aACCEg&adurl=
That should take off some weight from the roof/rack.
Just FYI, I did not know this, there's now a Titan 12, and
it's just started shipping this month.
Fully rigged is 138 pounds
So 10.5, 12, and 13.5...
http://nativewatercraft.com/product/titan-propel-12/
freelancer27 reply :
Yeah, I was looking at that too. Might put it into the equation. It is too close though to the PA12 imo though.
IgotWood reply :
For what it's worth, my buddy cartopped a PA14 for a few years. It looked pretty silly. He had a good system for it though, and never had any safety issues.
freelancer27 reply :
On 1/31/2018 at 7:05 PM, IgotWood said:For what it's worth, my buddy cartopped a PA14 for a few years. It looked pretty silly. He had a good system for it though, and never had any safety issues.
Yep, I have seen guys putting their PA14 onto their Mazda3 without a problem. The 14 is too big for me though, I have no garage and need to store it in the garden of my apartment complex...
Gond reply :
On 1/30/2018 at 3:12 PM, freelancer27 said:Hi all,
with the tax return money I am planning to buy my first fishing kayak. I have test driven the PA 12 and the Outback so far and I am leaning more towards the PA12 since it was far more stable for me (the Outback also felt a bit cheap, it felt like it was bending when I paddled it hard, also in the end it is 'just' 20 pounds heavier than the PA12). I would like to test drive the Titan 10.5 but I am not sure if there is a dealer in my area (Marin County, CA) where this would be possible.
I am 6'3. 210 pounds and I love to sight fish. I would be using the kayak 60% on lakes and 40% inshore. I need to carry the kayak on my Honda Civic (Thule 480 R roof rack + going to buy something like a Rhino Rack T-Load Hitch Mount). I have to store the kayak outside.
Per outing I would like to carry a minimum of 6 rods with me and a couple of tackle boxes. Standing is important to me since I want to be able to pitch and flip.
Anybody that had to make the same decision between these options. What are the cons and pros in your opinion?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Seb.
Wow I am in this same position as you. Waiting on tax money and considering the titan 10.5 or pa 12. I would also consider the titan 12 or 13.5. I have not tested any of them. I am not sure there is a place near me (Indiana) where I can demo. I am leaning towards the titan 10.5 because I think there is just enough room for me (6' 250lb), fishing gear, cooler, and my cocker spaniel. All others would have room to spare so i am not sure they are worth it. I had a perception pescador last year and vowed I would buy a pedal kayak this year. i will be following your decision with great interest!
freelancer27 reply :
On 2/5/2018 at 10:04 PM, Gond said:Wow I am in this same position as you. Waiting on tax money and considering the titan 10.5 or pa 12. I would also consider the titan 12 or 13.5. I have not tested any of them. I am not sure there is a place near me (Indiana) where I can demo. I am leaning towards the titan 10.5 because I think there is just enough room for me (6' 250lb), fishing gear, cooler, and my cocker spaniel. All others would have room to spare so i am not sure they are worth it. I had a perception pescador last year and vowed I would buy a pedal kayak this year. i will be following your decision with great interest!
likewise! I have to overcome a arm injury but then the search is on!
nighthawk25 reply :
On 2/5/2018 at 10:04 PM, Gond said:Wow I am in this same position as you. Waiting on tax money and considering the titan 10.5 or pa 12. I would also consider the titan 12 or 13.5. I have not tested any of them. I am not sure there is a place near me (Indiana) where I can demo. I am leaning towards the titan 10.5 because I think there is just enough room for me (6' 250lb), fishing gear, cooler, and my cocker spaniel. All others would have room to spare so i am not sure they are worth it. I had a perception pescador last year and vowed I would buy a pedal kayak this year. i will be following your decision with great interest!
I don't know when you could test drive but there's a kayak dealer in Bristol, almost at the Michigan line. They don't carry Hobie but they have many of the other top brands, including Native. Its called Fluid Fun.
YoTone reply :
I was kinda was in your shoes but at the time my choices were the PA12 vs Slayer 10.
I picked the Slayer 10 because of the price, weight and the instant reverse. And from what i understand the Titan is beefier version of the Slayer so its safe to assume its going to be a fantastic fishing machine. i wouldnt hesitate to buy it with out test driving it.
and you mentioned about a rhino hitch mount. i dont think that will be necessary. what i do is i lay the front of my kayak on my trunk and get behind it and push it on to the rack.
haggard reply :
I can't help with the Outback but I can offer my opinions on the choice between the Titan 10.5 and the PA12.
Only one I've used so far is a borrowed 14.5 Native (Slayer? Can't remember) for a few outings last fall. Knew I wanted pedal drive and it came down to the Titan 10.5 and the PA12. I ruled out the PA14 because of the length. After the release of the 10.5 Titan was delayed a couple times I ended up buying the PA12. Haven't tried it out yet but every time I look at it, I see why I spent the money. It is quality.
I warmed up to the Mirage drive system (didn't like it at first) but after experiencing some cavitation with the Native Propel drive I started considering the Hobie more (at first I didn't want the Hobie). I saw the Titan 10.5 in person at the NE Fishing/Outdoors Expo last week or so and the length is great, and seems of decent quality, but I think the Hobie is a step up. Rod holders are built inside the hull instead of being sleeves attached on the top of the hull. Anchor trolley screw mounts are molded-in brass inserts on the Hobie, not sure what they are on the Titan if it even has them. I think I'll prefer the slightly less elevated leg position of the Hobie drive compared to the Propel - a little easier on my butt and lower back. Then there is the PA seat! Hobie seat is very adjustable - elevation, lumbar, recline. Rod holders, you mention 6 rods min: I think the Titan 10.5 has two rod storage sleeves on the front edges. The PA12 has four that go inside the hull. Keep in mind each boat probably has additional rod storage (flush mount or whatever) - can't recall what the Titan has but the Hobie has two flush mount holders behind the seat. Instant reverse on the Propel wins over the Hobie cable pulls in my opinion. But Hobie just seems like the Cadillac. Yes you pay for it. Titan may have addressed the cavitation (not sure) but every time I look at the PA12 I'm very happy despite the price. I would definitely prefer the 10.5 length but it wasn't an option on the PA. Regarding the drive, the Propel is about 18 or 19 lb, while the Mirage is about 8. I've had to clean weeds out of the Propel when I ran shallow (not too big a deal to do); this shouldn't be an issue with the Mirage. That said, the Propel seems extremely solid and simple, while the Mirage I have yet to test.
I doubt you'll go wrong with either boat. Sorry I can't comment on the Outback.
They are heavy! So consider a trailer, or as I think you mentioned, a hitch mounted system of some kind.
Gond reply :
On 2/5/2018 at 11:12 PM, freelancer27 said:likewise! I have to overcome a arm injury but then the search is on!
I have purchased a Titan 10.5 but I haven't had the chance to get out on the water yet. Hopefully this weekend.
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