Hello Everyone!
I finally had the green light (by my wife) to go ahead and buy a new boat. Over the years I have purchased older boats that were 20+ years old, and with this green light I had to take advantage.
So, for my price range my options were the Ranger RT178, Tracker 190, Lund 1775, and the Crestline VT 18. These boats were very similar with a few options more than the other.
My overall decision came down to the Crestliner VT 18 for the simple fact of price, size, and motor options (115hp). This boat had the same layout as the RT188 and the Lund 1875, and it was priced to sell so I took the bait and should arrive this Saturday (3/31).
The model I bought is barebones meaning the FF is only a Pirhanamaxx 4 at the console and nothing up front, and the trolling motor is just a basic 70lb 24v cable trolling motor.
Here is my question for all of you that have more experience than me on the water. When I had my older boats, I ended up buying the MinnKota Terrova 80# w/ Link (I still have it). I loved using this trolling motor just by using the remote from anywhere on the boat and using the spot lock when tying or rigging. After doing some research I noticed that people have their pros and cons when it comes to cable or electric trolling motors.
So, my question is should I sell the Terrova and use the $ to upgrade my FF for DI/Si up on the current 70# cable driven trolling motor?
I know it comes down to personal preference, but I want to have a competitive advantage since I will be entering little tourneys in my area.
Thoughts?
Thanks!
Oh.. I also heard that the Terrova foot pedal will not fit my tray up front ( I don’t know yet since the boat hasn’t arrived)
I had that tm on my VT19 for 5 years and never had a problem so in my opinion I would leave it for bigger graphs.
Thanks 3dees.
I can only buy one at the moment
Should I throw the di/si up on the bow or console?
I'd keep the Terrova. If you're used to fishing that way, manual steering's gonna drive you nuts.
Going from a cable drive to an electric steer and vice versa can be difficult for some. I went from an electric steer model for 15 years to a cable steer and there was an adjustment period. The recessed area for the foot pedal is designed for a specific model. I experienced this problem when I bought my Ranger RT178 and they tried to put an electric steer model there. They may be able to alter the shape/depth of the recessed area for the foot pedal if you ask about it.
I would install the Terrova that you already enjoy using. Forget what others prefer!
I would sell the trolling motor that came with your new boat and look at some reasonably good upgraded electronics. You do not need to purchase $5000 worth of new HDS units or Humminbird Onyx units. Most anglers use about 1/3 of what their units can do. I would consider units like the Lowrance Hook or Elite TI, Humminbird Helix series or even a Raymarine Dragonfly unit.
Thanks for the replies.
I'll keep the cable trolling motor for now and give it a shot. If all else fails I'll throw on the Terrova.
The problem with the Terrova is the foot pedal. I might need to find a way to create a cover or look for an aftermarket cover that I can screw the foot pedal down too.
As far as graphs. I get what you're saying. I purchased a HB 9 series a few years ago and was lost. Ended up selling it to buy other gear.
Right now I'm looking at the Garmin 7sv or the 73sv for the console which will provide some contour lines.
Take a look at the Raymarine Axiom units, too.
On 3/29/2018 at 12:37 AM, MrBigDawg said:Thanks 3dees.
I can only buy one at the moment
Should I throw the di/si up on the bow or console?
I have di on the bow and di and si on the console. both Hds 9 touch.
On 3/29/2018 at 7:38 PM, PECo said:Take a look at the Raymarine Axiom units, too.
Are these fresh on the market? Not a lot of info besides marketing . 7" is going for $1300!
On 3/29/2018 at 11:48 PM, MrBigDawg said:Are these fresh on the market? Not a lot of info besides marketing . 7" is going for $1300!
I have a buddy who has one. They’re pretty amazing. The RealVision™ 3D Sonar, in particular, provides a 3D picture of what’s underneath the boat. When you’re trying to stay on top of a school of stripers in a river, that picture is priceless.
I have Humminbird Helix 10 G2 units on my bow and console. They’re much more susceptible to interference than the prior Humminbird units I had. If I were to do it over, I’d give the Axioms a shot.
Thanks @PECo. I've been doing a little research. It seems like a nice unit.
Do you know if traveling at high speeds you can scan; then go back and look at the structure?
Did you have a chance to see side view?
On 3/30/2018 at 3:22 AM, MrBigDawg said:Do you know if traveling at high speeds you can scan; then go back and look at the structure?
Did you have a chance to see side view?
No, I haven’t had a chance to operate an Axiom, yet.
@PECo or anyone else with some thoughts.
I'm still looking at the Raymarine Axiom and might pull the trigger. Only problem is that I can't afford 2 units.
So I would like to find something for the bow that I can get some side imaging. Its networking is console to bow a huge advantage?
IMO, SI at the bow is much less important than at the console.
I had it for years, found I wasn't using it much, went to DI up there with a Helix G2N that allows me to see it off the transom transducer if I need it.
DI and 2D are very useful at the bow, for me, and 360° is as well.
Get the Garmin Echomap 73SV for console and Striker 7DV for bow. Link them with a single wire, so you can share waypoints between them. I'd start out with a Striker on the front and save for the nicer unit for the console. You can just run the Navionics App on your phone so you can get contours and store waypoints that way.
MinnKota makes a quick release plate that allows you to mount the Terrova without having to drill new holes on the bow. Look into that.
If you sell the old TM, understand that the market for basic TM's is pretty non-existent and that you won't get anything really for it. I'd keep it as a spare should anything happen to the Terrova.
Thanks for the replies @Further North and @webertime. I always assumed that side imaging was being used up front.
As far as the trolling motor goes I'm going to see the Terrova and stick with the cable. The main reason is the foot pedal won't fit. I don't want to use the remote the whole time. Later down the road I'll upgrade to the Ultrex.
Like you said @webertimeI'll also get some of my money back allowing me to use on the new electronics.
I'm still intrigued by the Axiom and RV. I might throw that on and get a Garmin unit in the front that is capable of Papontix. Only problem is the networking.
Gotta love decisions on top of decisions.
Build an insert for the recessed tray?
That is an option @webertime. I did my break in the other day and running the cable wasn't bad.
I figured I could sell the motor so I could get some decent graphs.
I'll look into build a cover.
On 4/14/2018 at 6:01 AM, MrBigDawg said:I always assumed that side imaging was being used up front.
SI only works if you're moving, and works best if you're moving in a relatively straight line at a relatively consistent speed.
When I'm at the front of the boat, I'm not doing that very often. YMMV.
If it were me, I'd keep the Terrova, but I like the advantages of the Terrova/Ulterra over a non-networked, cable steer trolling motors that I have to drive the entire time I'm fishing. I prefer to fish and let the trolling motor do the work. I also think that the ability to put the control pedal in a tray is moot because the Terrova pedal is thin enough that it doesn't need to be in a well, and since you're hardly ever using it (you use the remote, let it run programed routes, follow the countour, or some other form of set-it-and-forget-it while you fish) height doesn't matter anyway...
Again, YMMV.
Regardless of what unit you decide and where you put what, make sure you get a screen large enough that you can see, especially at the bow where you are spending most of your time. If you are at all visually challenged, seeing a small screen is especially difficult, and if you use split screen, you might just as well give it up.
I've had a Lowrance Elite 5Ti for about 18 months at the console, and I've tried various ways to incorporate my 10" Ipad at the bow, linked to my Elite 5. In an ideal world(in my garage), my set-up worked satisfactorily. However, on the water, the Ipad could not tolerate direct sunlight or Texas summer heat. In short, I constantly struggle to utilize my sonar fully. I've decided to offer my Elite 5 for sale and have purchased 2 Elite 9's. Since I also upgraded my trolling motor to a Motorguide Xi5, I'm really excited about putting it all together and getting back on the water.
On 4/14/2018 at 9:34 AM, Further North said:Terrova pedal is thin enough that it doesn't need to be in a well, and since you're hardly ever using it (you use the remote, let it run programed routes, follow the countour, or some other form of set-it-and-forget-it while you fish) height doesn't matter anyway...
I do have the Terrova w/ link and I should take advantage of that feature. I also have the quick release. I'll throw it on this week and look into a 9 inch Humminbird for the bow
On 4/16/2018 at 12:11 AM, MrBigDawg said:I do have the Terrova w/ link and I should take advantage of that feature. I also have the quick release. I'll throw it on this week and look into a 9 inch Humminbird for the bow
That's what I'd do, for a couple reasons:
If I had to make a choice between new electronics and my Ulterra, I'd go with the Ulterra every time.
Update.
Well I decided to keep the Terrova w/link ; I might as well use what I have.
With that said I now need to stick with Humminbird (was looking at Raymarine) products and don't know which unit (s) to get.
I was thinking 2 Helix 7's with SI g2n or 1 Helix 9 Mega at the console for now, and then get another Mega at the bow when I can afford it.
Any thoughts?
I'm not fully sold on this Mega yet.
MEGA is nuts, in terms of detail...witll it catch extra fish? I dunno.
I went with it at my console (12") because it was time to update, and that's the biggest screen that fit the budget.
I went with a 10" DI G2N at the the bow, again, biggest screen that fit the budget...and...shared the MEGA transducer at from the other unit. They both also share the 360°.
...all that said...the biggest reason for staying with Humminbird for me was the ability to use all the ways they link with my Ulterra.
Your Terrova will do the same.
...as far as picking a Helix unit, I advise picking the biggest screen you can afford with MEGA...because you'll be crabby later if you don't and will probably wind up upgrading...
Thanks @Further North for all of your advice.
Well my console dash will only hold up to 9" screens and I do not want a RAM mount with a unit off to the side.
So that leaves me with the HB Mega.
Unfortunately I'm going to have nothing at the bow, but will be able to mark things as I pass by.
I could do 2 7's but like you said I'd be ticked in the end.
On 4/24/2018 at 5:42 PM, MrBigDawg said:Well my console dash will only hold up to 9" screens and I do not want a RAM mount with a unit off to the side.
So that leaves me with the HB Mega.
The Helix 9 and 10 units are the same size. The 9 just has a bigger bezel around the screen.
Ah. Good to know @PECo. 1" for the additioal cost... idk.
Man. What a racket these companies have going for them.
On 4/24/2018 at 5:42 PM, MrBigDawg said:Unfortunately I'm going to have nothing at the bow, but will be able to mark things as I pass by.
I honestly cannot think of a worse plan for electronics. You'll be on the front deck more than at the helm. You'll be fishing more than driving. Put a full feature, large screen unit up front, and get a basic GPS graph for the helm.
Very true @J Francho. Does SI make that big of a difference on the TM?
Ideally both place would be nice. That's why I suggested 2-7s
On top of this equipment I'd have to network all of this. How much is that networking hub?
And do you need two map cards or one if networked?
On 4/24/2018 at 7:30 PM, PECo said:The Helix 9 and 10 units are the same size. The 9 just has a bigger bezel around the screen.
Yep. Same "box" different screen, higher resolution.
The 9" Helix G2N MEGA is 800 x 480. Call it 7.8" x 4.4"
The 10" Helix G2N MEGA is 1,024 s 600. Let's call that 8.8" x 5"
That's 60%.
9.68 more square inches of screen, or 28% in round numbers...
...If can comfortably write the check, I'm all over that...
https://tabersbestreviews.com/humminbird-helix-10-review-1-reason-size-matters/
On 4/24/2018 at 9:02 PM, MrBigDawg said:Ah. Good to know @PECo. 1" for the additioal cost... idk.
Man. What a racket these companies have going for them.
That inch is a considerable difference in screen size...and resolution.
...and it's not a racket, the prices are market driven...the companies live and die by their reputation, and they all have good ones.
On 4/24/2018 at 9:34 PM, J Francho said:I honestly cannot think of a worse plan for electronics. You'll be on the front deck more than at the helm. You'll be fishing more than driving. Put a full feature, large screen unit up front, and get a basic GPS graph for the helm.
Hmmmm...
I keep my big screen - 12" - at the console, because when I'm moving faster...call it 6 MPH...I want the biggest screen I can get to look for structure I can come back to fish later...when I'm searching I want detail to study, sometimes I'll make two or three passes on SI well outside the range I'll be fishing from to get the structure nailed down in my head...then move in and fish it in detail from the bow...
...then I'm fine with the 10" at the bow, a little less detail because then I'm fishing not searching...detail isn't as important to me...I am most often on 2D, or DI, or sometimes 360°. I glance and fish, glance and fish...
Fishing is as individual as fingerprints, so I never tell anyone they're doing it wrong, but I can state that your plan, for me, would not work at all. Mine wouldn't work for you either...and that's cool...
On 4/24/2018 at 9:39 PM, MrBigDawg said:Very true @J Francho. Does SI make that big of a difference on the TM?
Ideally both place would be nice. That's why I suggested 2-7s
On top of this equipment I'd have to network all of this. How much is that networking hub?
And do you need two map cards or one if networked?
IMO, SI on the trolling motor does little, but there's a ton of folks out there who love it.
The hub's about $270, the cables ain't cheap either...
Two map cards with Helix...Solix can share.
Thanks again @Further North.
I've come to the conclusion that we need a competitive league that doesn't allow electronics.
In all seriousness. I'm a weekend warrior and try to fish small tourneys. I've noticed that these guys winning these tourneys all have these big graphs with big boats which means big $.
I'm just trying to stay competitive with the competition that's why I'm looking at these units. Hence my comment about this being a racket. Also HB or any other company doesn't really disclose all the extra equipment needed to link all of the products together. Two graphs networked is potentially another $600. That's hidden cost on the consumer and I find it ridiculous.
Anyways... I went from 2-7's to a 9" Mega and now I'm looking at the 10" Mega. When does it end...lmao.
If you are running a 9 and 10 on your Crestliner, check the starting battery, if you have a small cranking battery you might have an issue.
There are a ton of opinions on what you should/could do. The idea of no finder up front where you are spending most of your time, seems like a bad idea. You have the ipilot stuff, put a 9 up front and get a basic (for the time being) 5 or 7 (GPS/Sonar) for the console. Your face is going to be what 2 feet from it? It'll do the job until you can afford to go bigger (you might even be happy with what you have).
I have an 18' Ranger with 2 7" Garmin units. I'm 6'5" so my eyes are probably further away from the screen than yours would be... 7" is fine. I catch a bunch of fish, I am competitive in tournaments, regardless of my screen size.
If you have the coin then go for it, but don't feel that it will make a huge difference. Confidence and making the right decisions is what catches fish.
Thanks @webertime. I think anything I buy will be a major upgrade from the PiranhaMaxx that came with the boat.
Honestly it's hard to explain to the wife/boss that I need to invest another 2k in a brand new boat. At the end of the day.... she don't get it.
Great point about the battery. I'll have to see what my output is.
I might just have to settle for less at the moment... I'll keep ya updated.
On 4/25/2018 at 10:06 PM, MrBigDawg said:Thanks @webertime. I think anything I buy will be a major upgrade from the PiranhaMaxx that came with the boat.
Honestly it's hard to explain to the wife/boss that I need to invest another 2k in a brand new boat. At the end of the day.... she don't get it.
Great point about the battery. I'll have to see what my output is.
I might just have to settle for less at the moment... I'll keep ya updated.
Do you have Navionics on your phone? If you do ($10 if you don't) then there is your mapping. Then in the Short term you have your maps and the Piranha you get temp, depth, and can quickly figure out bottom composition based on the return. That is all you really need. It might be a good political move (with wife) to run that for a bit like that. Upgrade in a few months when 2019 stuff comes out, that's when you cash out the political escrow you've created.
On 4/25/2018 at 9:22 AM, Further North said:Hmmmm...
I keep my big screen - 12" - at the console, because when I'm moving faster...call it 6 MPH
I keep my eyes on the water, even when going 6 mph. I can find what need to find glancing at my tiny 7. Once up front, the viewing distance is greater, which is why I want a bigger screen up front. What the OP was suggesting was NO SCREEN UP FRONT, which will almost unanimously be thought of as a bad idea.
The side imaging thing up front. Tell you a little secret...you can scan docs by sweeping the TM head, and using just the single side view. This will let you preview what's under there, before disturbing the dock or getting too close. You're welcome.
On 4/25/2018 at 10:45 PM, J Francho said:he side imaging thing up front. Tell you a little secret...you can scan docs by sweeping the TM head, and using just the single side view. This will let you preview what's under there, before disturbing the dock or getting too close. You're welcome.
I had that set up for years, hardly every used it. I tried it forts up in Canada, and I just didn't like the way it showed structure. That was Pre-MEGA, so maybe it's better now?
Either 360°, or making a pass far enough out to not disturb the fish works better for me.
Seems inconvenient to go back to the console, fire up the motor, do a scanning pass, when remember which docks held fish, when you're fishing miles of docks. Your lakes might be different, though. It's not pretty, but with the sensitivity turned up, you can see suspended fish. It's a little distorted, but still works without having to spend the money on 360°. I'm still not sure about having that bulky unit up front on my boat anyway. The best option may be Garmin's Panoptix.
On 4/25/2018 at 10:14 PM, webertime said:Do you have Navionics on your phone? If you do ($10 if you don't) then there is your mapping. Then in the Short term you have your maps and the Piranha you get temp, depth, and can quickly figure out bottom composition based on the return. That is all you really need. It might be a good political move (with wife) to run that for a bit like that. Upgrade in a few months when 2019 stuff comes out, that's when you cash out the political escrow you've created.
Yes, I have the Navionics app @webertime. I’ve used it a few times on my old boat and found it to be a pain. Seems like a good idea; I guess I could try again.
Also, it’s like fishing with my wife; she took the bait on 2k budget and now is the time for me to set the hook.
On 4/25/2018 at 10:45 PM, J Francho said:I keep my eyes on the water, even when going 6 mph. I can find what need to find glancing at my tiny 7. Once up front, the viewing distance is greater, which is why I want a bigger screen up front. What the OP was suggesting was NO SCREEN UP FRONT, which will almost unanimously be thought of as a bad idea.
The side imaging thing up front. Tell you a little secret...you can scan docs by sweeping the TM head, and using just the single side view. This will let you preview what's under there, before disturbing the dock or getting too close. You're welcome.
Thanks for the tip @J Francho!
On 4/26/2018 at 1:24 AM, J Francho said:The best option may be Garmin's Panoptix.
I don't think I can run 360 or Panoptix b/c I'm running a Terrova. Also I was trying to stay with HB to take advantage of follow the contour. Have you used that before @Further North? If so, how is it?
I'm still at the drawing board with this and started pricing stuff. I even went back to my original thoughts of the Helix 7's, but then realized I would have to do a transducer swap with HB.
On 4/26/2018 at 6:19 AM, MrBigDawg said:I don't think I can run 360 or Panoptix b/c I'm running a Terrova.
You can, but you have to put some thought into it:
On 4/26/2018 at 6:19 AM, MrBigDawg said:Also I was trying to stay with HB to take advantage of follow the contour. Have you used that before @Further North? If so, how is it?
There are days on the water, here where I live, that half the day is devoted to Follow the Contour fishing. One of my favorite spots is a sunken island in a local lake where I set the Follow the contour to follow the 12' contour and I fire cast after cast after cast across the sunken island while the Ulterra does the work and I...just fish...
There's another spot, same lake, where Follow the Contour has helped me nail down three muskis over 40" and who knows how many smallies, because I can...just...fish...while the trolling motor does the work, regardless of wind, current, or whatever...
...if you lived closer, and there was open water, I'd say, "Come on up, let's fish!"
It may or may not work for you, but it works for me...
Where do you live @Further North?
I did a lot of research this morning and it's looking like 2 Garmin echomap chirp 93sv plus might serve me well. Only because it comes with everything and networking is simply one cable. The only real downside to this setup is follow the contour feature with my Terrova.
HB just requires too many accessories for my liking. Transducers, cables, hubs, and mapping.
When it comes to mapping. I'll be fishing mainly Ohio water but I'll be fishing in Central New York and North/South Carolina this year.
I think that would be 3 different lakemaster chips
On 4/26/2018 at 6:21 PM, MrBigDawg said:Where do you live @Further North?
I'm about 90 miles east of the Twin Cities.
Those Garmin units will work fine for you, and you can consider adding Panoptix later, which is some really cool technology.
I love the Follow the Contour, and route following abilities of the linked HB and MK units, but there's a lot of people who don't have it do just fine.
On 4/26/2018 at 1:24 AM, J Francho said:Seems inconvenient to go back to the console, fire up the motor, do a scanning pass, when remember which docks held fish, when you're fishing miles of docks. Your lakes might be different, though. It's not pretty, but with the sensitivity turned up, you can see suspended fish. It's a little distorted, but still works without having to spend the money on 360°. I'm still not sure about having that bulky unit up front on my boat anyway. The best option may be Garmin's Panoptix.
I knew we'd figure it out...
We don't have miles of docks...heck, there's huge hunks of water without any docks on the lake I fish most often....and a lot of the others in the area.
Also, I seldom look for fish: I tend to look for structure, and I mark it in the maps so I don't have to remember it, so one pass is good for a long time.
We fish differently...probably because I'm usually looking for pike and musky with bass as a secondary target.
I'm intrigued by Panoptix, but I just can't get used to the idea of one more thing bolted to my deck getting in my way and getting fly line wrapped 'round it. 360° is getting it done for now.
On 4/27/2018 at 2:13 AM, Further North said:We don't have miles of docks
Also, I'm definitely looking for fish, bait, structure, and cover with my graphs. Especially if I'm out in the big lake. You can fish for miles, and it's all dead water, but when you find them, it's on.
@J Francho Yeah...completely different kinds of lakes.
I just looked at a lake near hear on Google Maps...at about the same resolution, I could count the number of docks in a similar area on two hands.
Well I still haven't pulled the trigger.
I'm now researching plus vs non-plus b/c the cost savings on the non-plus will be a significant amount.
The only real plus version is Wi-Fi to update mapping on the fly, phone notifications, and plan my route.
1. I can update on my laptop by simply removing the sd card.
2. One reason I fish is to have peace and quiet. Not to be bothered by phone notifications.
Seems like everything else is the same
On 4/27/2018 at 4:29 PM, MrBigDawg said:Well I still haven't pulled the trigger.
I'm now researching plus vs non-plus b/c the cost savings on the non-plus will be a significant amount.
The only real plus version is Wi-Fi to update mapping on the fly, phone notifications, and plan my route.
1. I can update on my laptop by simply removing the sd card.
2. One reason I fish is to have peace and quiet. Not to be bothered by phone notifications.
Seems like everything else is the same
I wish I had enough experience to help with Garmin.
With fishing electronics, I tend to get the best I can on the theory it'll be longer before it's obsolete...
...that said, I went with Helix over Solix because I had little use for the extra gee-whiz stuff.
I'm 100% with you on the peace and quiet. There's not even a radio on my boat...
I hear ya @Further North. If I had the extra cash I most likely would have went with Humminbird.
I think these will work out fine. Time will tell. I know that I have 2 93sv coming for around 1300 networked ($20 cable). That saved me around $1k compared to the Plus and even cheaper than 2 Helix 7's fully networked
I found another difference in the 93sv Plus vs 93sv . The 93sv chirp is not a touch screen. I can live without that as well