bass guarding fry 2024
70diesel reply :
I was reading the article about bass guarding fry https://www.bassresource.com/fishing/bass-guarding-fry.html and kinda don't agree with trying to catch those fish. For one, how boring is it trying to catch a fish in that situation when you can almost net out of the water? Also, I want those little guys to stay alive and grow up so I can catch them later when it's a challenge. I don't want to risk injuring or killing the bass on guard. Maybe I'm in the minority here but i leave those fish alone to do their job making a better fishing lake.
WRB reply :
Bed fishing is always a hot debate. There isn't much difference between a male guarding eggs or fry, they both become part of the food chain with a number survivors. Anyone bass fishing along the shore line during the spawn cycle catches bed fish targeted or not.
Tom
slonezp reply :
The greatest thing about having free will is the freedom to choose or choose not to do something.
geo g reply :
On 5/20/2019 at 9:57 PM, 70diesel said:I was reading the article about bass guarding fry https://www.bassresource.com/fishing/bass-guarding-fry.html and kinda don't agree with trying to catch those fish. For one, how boring is it trying to catch a fish in that situation when you can almost net out of the water? Also, I want those little guys to stay alive and grow up so I can catch them later when it's a challenge. I don't want to risk injuring or killing the bass on guard. Maybe I'm in the minority here but i leave those fish alone to do their job making a better fishing lake.
Your not the only one with those same feelings. When you catch the guard the bait fish attack the nest. Tournaments should be banned during the spawn for this very reason.
slonezp reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 12:32 AM, geo g said:Your not the only one with those same feelings. When you catch the guard the bait fish attack the nest. Tournaments should be banned during the spawn for this very reason.
And after 2 weeks of guarding the male bass will eat it's fry if it is given the chance.
geo g reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 12:36 AM, slonezp said:And after 2 weeks of guarding the male bass will eat it's fry if it is given the chance.
Up the odds for survival by protecting the guards, and let mother nature do what's been programmed over a million of years. This practice only helps the sport we love. Don't harass the nest!
WRB reply :
In SoCal bass clubs have gotten together with local lake management to bouy off a few spawning coves as sanctuary areas. The real threat to a year class is a lake level draw down during the spawn cycle.
Member Paul Roberts made an excellent vedio on the spawn cycle available on this site.
Tom
slonezp reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 12:46 AM, geo g said:
Up the odds for survival by protecting the guards, and let mother nature do what's been programmed over a million of years. This practice only helps the sport we love. Don't harass the nest!
Mother nature? I'm at the top of her food chain.
the reel ess reply :
Somehow bass continue as a species. If you have any effect at all on the bass, it would be to increase their average size. My $0.02. If others don't want to bed fish I'm happy with that. Actually, around here, fewer people fish the month of April because they're turkey hunting.
geo g reply :
On 5/20/2019 at 11:54 PM, slonezp said:The greatest thing about having free will is the freedom to choose or choose not to do something.
Free will is only when it doesn't have a negative effect on the rest of us. You have hunting seasons all over this country that limit your free will for a good reason. You have thousands of laws that control your free will for the good of the rest of us. You have traffic laws that affect your free will, so we don't have chaos. If everyone had true free will, this would be one uncivilized cesspool to live in. Laws are here for a purpose, to make this a sustainable world to live in! Protecting our natural resources is important if you truly love our wildlife.
Glenn reply :
So.... this is a prime example of emotions getting injected into a topic where science doesn't support the emotions.
Fact is, catching a guarding male, and then releasing him, does not harm the fishery. There simply isn't any evidence to support anything otherwise.
In fact, heavily pressured lakes such as Toledo Bend, Fork, Guntersville, and many other well known "trophy lakes" have sustained decades of heavy tournament pressure around the spawn, and they still pump out numbers and sizes of fish.
Fact is, if you don't like fishing for spawning/guarding bass, then don't. Just understand that those that do, aren't killing off your favorite lake.
12poundbass reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 12:36 AM, slonezp said:And after 2 weeks of guarding the male bass will eat it's fry if it is given the chance.
So he has a fish fry? Sorry I couldn’t resist.
Baby bass is one of my go to Senko colors.
greentrout reply :
Fishing The Beds
Pros and Cons
By Ronald F. Dodson, Ph.D.
In general Charlie felt that fishing for bedding fish would not negatively impact a lake. There are several reasons for this assumption. For starters even in a clear-water lake there are, in theory, a large number of bass that should spawn and never be subject to fishing pressure by being found by the fisherman. The exception here is if the lake is very small or there is extensive repetitious pressure in a small area. Those conditions can put real stress on the spawning population by having them either selectively removed if people catch and keep the spawning bass or simply put the bass under repetitious physiological shock from multiple harassment or hook sets.
https://www.bassresource.com/fishing/spawning_bass_bed.html
have public access to some lakes smaller than 200 acres ... some smaller than 100 acres ... 50 acres ...
good fishing ...
the reel ess reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 3:21 AM, Glenn said:So.... this is a prime example of emotions getting injected into a topic where science doesn't support the emotions.
Fact is, catching a guarding male, and then releasing him, does not harm the fishery. There simply isn't any evidence to support anything otherwise.
In fact, heavily pressured lakes such as Toledo Bend, Fork, Guntersville, and many other well known "trophy lakes" have sustained decades of heavy tournament pressure around the spawn, and they still pump out numbers and sizes of fish.
Fact is, if you don't like fishing for spawning/guarding bass, then don't. Just understand that those that do, aren't killing off your favorite lake.
More big bass for me!
geo g reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 3:21 AM, Glenn said:So.... this is a prime example of emotions getting injected into a topic where science doesn't support the emotions.
Fact is, catching a guarding male, and then releasing him, does not harm the fishery. There simply isn't any evidence to support anything otherwise.
In fact, heavily pressured lakes such as Toledo Bend, Fork, Guntersville, and many other well known "trophy lakes" have sustained decades of heavy tournament pressure around the spawn, and they still pump out numbers and sizes of fish.
Fact is, if you don't like fishing for spawning/guarding bass, then don't. Just understand that those that do, aren't killing off your favorite lake.
Yes I agree, catch and release quickly probably has little effect. But catch, put in a live well, and haul it miles away probably does. TX bed fishing can’t help the conservation efforts on a body of water.
Glenn reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 5:11 AM, geo g said:But catch, put in a live well, and haul it miles away probably does.
Again, there's no evidence to suggest it does - which is my point. Your argument is purely speculative.
70diesel reply :
I was fishing with a friend once and we pulled the boat off the river into a small creek coming in and there were probably 30-50 small mouth bass hanging out under a bridge maybe 30’ wide. He kept trying to catch them and I was bored out of my mind. There was zero challenge. This is how I view fishing, I like the challenge of not being able to pick off easy fish just to puff my chest up and say I caught a fish. I view bass guarding fry the same way. What’s the point? If you’re that bad at fishing I guess it’s fun to say you caught a fish....
The Susquehanna (PA) shuts down fishing near Harrisburg during the spawn and that is why the bass there are so plentiful and big so there’s your science.
scaleface reply :
The way I see it , the reason why bass have so many fry is because very few of them percentage wise makes it past one year . The bass lay enough eggs to overcome predators . Fishing during the spawn is not going to have much of an impact .
WRB reply :
Smaller lakes without any fishing manage themselves if left alone. Add 100+ skilled bass boat with 2 anglers per boat every weekend on small bass lakes does impact the big bass population, not the smaller males bass population.
Lakes over 10,000 acres have enough spawning areas that fishing pressure alone has little impact, they are self sustaining fisheries. California only stocks bass 1 initial plant when the lake is dammed. Texas and other states manage thier bass population and plant bass annually to sustain the population and vigor orvthecpopulation.
SoCal lakes are water storage facilities, fishing is secondary recreational use only. Draw downs to work on dams or water supply equipment occur often in the middle of a spawn cycle killing off a majority of that years recruitment class resulting in boom or bust years of bass fishing cycles. With all the mis management our lake continue to produce decent bass fishing year in and year out.
I agree with Glenn it's an emotional topic whenever bed fishing is discussed. Small ponds are different from small or large lakes, bass are resilient fish but good sportsmanship is always helpful.
Tom
lo n slo reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 12:36 AM, slonezp said:And after 2 weeks of guarding the male bass will eat it's fry if it is given the chance.
yep, and it’s not only while they’re on the nest. one of my best big fish periods is when the fry move off the nest and into deeper cover. you can catch some goliath sized bass this time of year who have stuffed their bellies with baby bass.....and they’ll puke them up in your boat.
slonezp reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 3:01 AM, geo g said:
Free will is only when it doesn't have a negative effect on the rest of us. You have hunting seasons all over this country that limit your free will for a good reason. You have thousands of laws that control your free will for the good of the rest of us. You have traffic laws that affect your free will, so we don't have chaos. If everyone had true free will, this would be one uncivilized cesspool to live in. Laws are here for a purpose, to make this a sustainable world to live in! Protecting our natural resources is important if you truly love our wildlife.
Game laws are in place, not to coddle the feelings of "the rest of us", but to manage game. A single deer cannot give birth to 20,000 fawn in it's lifetime, let alone during a single mating season. 20% of all deer killed each year are killed by vehicles. Should we ban driving during the rut?
Unfortunately, there are a lot of us high and mighty bass fisherman who think a bass is some sort of a magical creature. It's a fish. You don't see crappie, bluegill, or perch fishermen preaching catch and release. Nor walleye fishermen. Nor Great Lakes trout and salmon fishermen. No, just us egotistical bass fishermen who think we're going to save the species. What about carp, catfish, and drum? No, it's just bass that gets put on a pedestal. What about the non tournament fishermen who harvest fish for food. You better believe they don't care about yours or my feelings.
Before I get off my high horse, I want to mention one more thing. The more legislation we allow to pass the less freedoms we have. There are instances where fishing has been outlawed. Do you really want to see that happen? Be careful what you wish for.
Arcs&sparks reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 7:56 AM, slonezp said:No, it's just bass that gets put on a pedestal.
I’d think that some of the trout guys, mainly in the fly fishing community are as bad and even worse. To the point where one might wonder why they even fish at all.
MountainMan83 reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 7:56 AM, slonezp said:Game laws are in place, not to coddle the feelings of "the rest of us", but to manage game. A single deer cannot give birth to 20,000 fawn in it's lifetime, let alone during a single mating season. 20% of all deer killed each year are killed by vehicles. Should we ban driving during the rut?
Unfortunately, there are a lot of us high and mighty bass fisherman who think a bass is some sort of a magical creature. It's a fish. You don't see crappie, bluegill, or perch fishermen preaching catch and release. Nor walleye fishermen. Nor Great Lakes trout and salmon fishermen. No, just us egotistical bass fishermen who think we're going to save the species. What about carp, catfish, and drum? No, it's just bass that gets put on a pedestal. What about the non tournament fishermen who harvest fish for food. You better believe they don't care about yours or my feelings.
Before I get off my high horse, I want to mention one more thing. The more legislation we allow to pass the less freedoms we have. There are instances where fishing has been outlawed. Do you really want to see that happen? Be careful what you wish for.
I agree with most of what you are saying, especially about the bass being put on a pedestal. However, obviously it depends on who is in charge of game laws or management, I don't think it's always negative. I have had the opportunity of harvesting an additional buck some years based on that very legislation, and added meat to my freezer or gave to others who don't want to go through that process.
slonezp reply :
Language warning
gimruis reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 7:56 AM, slonezp said:Unfortunately, there are a lot of us high and mighty bass fisherman who think a bass is some sort of a magical creature. It's a fish. You don't see crappie, bluegill, or perch fishermen preaching catch and release. Nor walleye fishermen.
Your are correct but for that very reason, panfish populations are stunted around here and it’s virtually impossible to find big ones worth harvesting anymore. I think the reason bass populations are in better shape is because the majority of us practice catch and release. If people started harvesting bass like they do panfish and walleye, the bass population up north would get decimated in a short period of time. They simply take a lot longer to grow and replenish.
flyfisher reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 9:11 AM, gimruis said:Your are correct but for that very reason, panfish populations are stunted around here and it’s virtually impossible to find big ones worth harvesting anymore. I think the reason bass populations are in better shape is because the majority of us practice catch and release. If people started harvesting bass like they do panfish and walleye, the bass population up north would get decimated in a short period of time. They simply take a lot longer to grow and replenish.
Fish populations are stunted because of overpopulation not over harvest. Game fish are fighting for prey species and there isn't enough to go around.
Further North reply :
Bed fishing for bass is, to me, like going to shoot clay pigeons, and setting the clay pigeon on the ground 5 feet away...or ground swatting a pheasant, or shooting a ruffed grouse off a tree branch. Moral dilemmas aside, bed fishing just doesn't seem sporting. Since I fish for fun, and not to feed a starving family, I choose not to do it for that reason.
If others want to do it, that's their call, as long as it's legal.
Re Bass on pedestal: If you think bass fishermen, or trout fishermen are obsessive on the subject...ask a a musky guy...
jbmaine reply :
Whether you bed fish or not is up to everyone to decide for themselves. I like being on the water during the spawn just to see how many beds/fish there are. Seeing hundreds of beds with fish on them really kind of shows how healthy a lake is. And yes, if I see a bigger than normal bass, I'll catch it, snap a pic, and let it go.
70diesel reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 9:29 AM, Further North said:Bed fishing for bass is, to me, like going to shoot clay pigeons, and setting the clay pigeon on the ground 5 feet away...or ground swatting a pheasant, or shooting a ruffed grouse off a tree branch. Moral dilemmas aside, bed fishing just doesn't seem sporting. Since I fish for fun, and not to feed a starving family, I choose not to do it for that reason.
If others want to do it, that's their call, as long as it's legal.
Re Bass on pedestal: If you think bass fishermen, or trout fishermen are obsessive on the subject...ask a a musky guy...
Agree 100%! This is what I was saying when I started the thread
Mbirdsley reply :
in my mind I don't really have a problem with people catching and immediately releasing bass back to the beds. tournaments are another story. just seems like they are slitting there own throughts by taking a big bass off of their beds and taking it across the lake for weigh in. IMHO except for the big money tournaments within 10 years the smaller tournaments will be using bump boards like the kayakers do. The technology is there to do it. Than there really wont be a debate about catching bedded bass. measure it on the board and back in the water it goes.
fissure_man reply :
To counter the idea that concerns around bed fishing must be based only on 'emotion', here's an article presenting research findings that suggest that C&R angling during the spawn season did have an observable impact on year class success:
https://www.outdoorcanada.ca/fishing-for-nesting-bass/
No doubt there are other studies from other organizations and locations (though not very many) that have reached different conclusions, and many lakes continue to thrive under year-round pressure. But it's not unreasonable to think that some fisheries could be more vulnerable than others, and I don't think the research to date supports a blanket statement around the harmlessness of bed fishing. Factors including climate, species, habitat, fishing pressure, stocking programs, etc. ought to be considered.
Even if overall recruitment is unaffected by bed fishing, loss of individual broods is well-documented, and resulting potential for population-level selection against traits of aggression and size should be considered. Aggressive bass are the ones most likely to be caught, and large specimens are more likely to be toured around in a livewell or held up for an extended photo session. Even if their lost spawning effort is made up for by the success of others, are we selecting against desirable, heritable traits by disturbing the spawn in this way? I believe there is some research supporting this idea.
Food for thought, anyway.
WRB reply :
On 5/22/2019 at 11:19 AM, Mbirdsley said:in my mind I don't really have a problem with people catching and immediately releasing bass back to the beds. tournaments are another story. just seems like they are slitting there own throughts by taking a big bass off of their beds and taking it across the lake for weigh in. IMHO except for the big money tournaments within 10 years the smaller tournaments will be using bump boards like the kayakers do. The technology is there to do it. Than there really wont be a debate about catching bedded bass. measure it on the board and back in the water it goes.
Our local lakes and other states are starting to use the MLF format of weighing and releasing with a observer in lieu of a team partner in local tournaments. Team and AAA /Pro draw events are the majority but times are changing.
We can debate this till the cows come home, does bed fishing affects bass populations. Compare private lakes vs public lakes the same size and nearby locations there is a difference in catch rates per and size of bass per man hour fished do to fewer man hrs fished. Big drops in bass populations isn't a result of bed fishing pressure, it's always a result of environmental conditions or draw downs during the spawn cycle. Remember big bass spawn in several nest sites.
Tom
NHBull reply :
Over the next month I will be taking out a lot of first time young anglers and you am heading to the flats at some point in the day. A perfect opportunity to to have success and teach about the circle of life. I guess I am a terrible person
Pickle_Power reply :
On 5/21/2019 at 9:14 AM, flyfisher said:Fish populations are stunted because of overpopulation not over harvest. Game fish are fighting for prey species and there isn't enough to go around.
This isn't exactly true. Look up how important it is to NOT harvest big bull bluegills during their spawn. Genetic makeup of a smaller body of water can get wrecked pretty easily when it comes to bluegills. I wouldn't say the same thing about crappies or perch.
I, myself, don't see much of an ethical issue with fishing for a bedding bass. However, I think that it is incredibly boring.
NHBull reply :
On 5/23/2019 at 3:43 AM, Pickle_Power said:This isn't exactly true. Look up how important it is to NOT harvest big bull bluegills during their spawn. Genetic makeup of a smaller body of water can get wrecked pretty easily when it comes to bluegills. I wouldn't say the same thing about crappies or perch.
I, myself, don't see much of an ethical issue with fishing for a bedding bass. However, I think that it is incredibly boring.
Not if your seven years old! Crush the barb and go at it ????
slonezp reply :
On 5/23/2019 at 3:43 AM, Pickle_Power said:This isn't exactly true. Look up how important it is to NOT harvest big bull bluegills during their spawn. Genetic makeup of a smaller body of water can get wrecked pretty easily when it comes to bluegills. I wouldn't say the same thing about crappies or perch.
I, myself, don't see much of an ethical issue with fishing for a bedding bass. However, I think that it is incredibly boring.
I harvest big gills off the beds every spring on a 200 acre lake. Been doing it for 10 years. Every year i continue to catch 9-11" gills. I might keep 30 every weekend throughout the spawn. I throw back hundreds of <9" fish. The lake breeds big gills and is known for its panfish. I guarantee I'm not the only one doing it.
Glenn reply :
Yup, this "debate" (really, the emotional "I'm right, you're wrong" rhetoric) goes on every time this year, and has been for decades.
Yet fisheries survive and grow.
Private fisheries are managed completely different than public, in a big way (more politics than science on public waters). The environments are totally different too, where taking hundreds of bass from a pond annually is mandatory for a healthy population, taking the same relative amount (10X thousands) from large public waters could be detrimental.
So comparing studies between the two is like comparing a Volkswagon to a Kennworth. It's not even close.
Skinny fish? Dozens of potential causes for that; and the true cause is likely not the one that supports anyone's argument here.
So let's get off our pulpits; understand that the emotional pleas to stop will continue, while science (mother nature) has means and ways to offset predation and even major fish kills, let alone C&R tournaments; and focus on doing whatever you individually feel comfortable with.
I'm going to end this thread, because what's going to be said has been said already, and I don't want this to spiral into personal attacks and insults....because that's where this topic always ends up (been running this site for over 2 decades. Been there, done that, over and over).
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