Why dont they have 2 records for Largemouth bass? N & S? 2024

Del from philly reply :

always wondered why they clump together the record for largemouth bass.

i mean, they should have a record northern strain and a record southern strain,

am i right? everything i have seen didnt clarify.....

i mean, why not let people around my way go for the northern record instead of being put out of the race by people from cali and florida?

any yankees feel my pain?

JCrzy4Bass reply :

I honestly think it would be way too hard to regulate. Guys sending in pictures from different states claiming it's one strain of that particular fish, etc when it's another. I mean I don't work at the state department for inland fisheries here, but I'm sure with all the paperwork and pictures these guys get and stuff theyd on't do a very thorough job looking stuff over for such minor details.

I mean I know there are some of you guys who could tell the difference between every strain as soon as you see it, but not everyone can. That's just one of my small beliefs. But as you pointed out, I do think if they had a good way of implementing it, it would be a lot better. The more records out there to chase the more purpose there is for these hawg hunters and so forth.

Del from philly reply :

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I honestly think it would be way too hard to regulate. Guys sending in pictures from different states claiming it's one strain of that particular fish, etc when it's another. I mean I don't work at the state department for inland fisheries here, but I'm sure with all the paperwork and pictures these guys get and stuff theyd on't do a very thorough job looking stuff over for such minor details.
I mean I know there are some of you guys who could tell the difference between every strain as soon as you see it, but not everyone can. That's just one of my small beliefs. But as you pointed out, I do think if they had a good way of implementing it, it would be a lot better. The more records out there to chase the more purpose there is for these hawg hunters and so forth.

maybe they could put it in zones? i mean, a guy in PA isnt going to be able to catch a florida strain bass...

the record already depends on a lot of trust, probably too much

i mean, people could do that with the state records now, they could bring in a florida bass......

it could work, but your right,. it would be more than tough,

tntitans21399 reply :

Why have 2 records? You have a state record you can aim for.

Then the you would have to split it in North East, South East, South West, North West, then you have some lakes and rivers that are in different states and that would be a lot of work for the agencies, and unnecessary waste of money.

Del from philly reply :

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Why have 2 records? You have a state record you can aim for.

your probably from the south....

just joking, but i guess your right, it would just be nice to be able to go for a world record....

i mean, technicly, the biggest state record in the ne is probably the world record northern strain LM

i guess i look at these monsters that weigh in at 15 lbs and it angers me.....i feel like its cheating when it is clearly not

im a sore loser,,,......AND EXTREMELY JELOUSE!!!!

tntitans21399 reply :

Just think the world record was in GA for the longest time, I think 50+ years (don't remember actually years), and now it is in CA, so the south doesn't have the world record Largemouth, the west does. We do still the record Smallmouth. But if your in another country you don't have either record.

JCrzy4Bass reply :

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maybe they could put it in zones? i mean, a guy in PA isnt going to be able to catch a florida strain bass...

the record already depends on a lot of trust, probably too much

i mean, people could do that with the state records now, they could bring in a florida bass......

it could work, but your right,. it would be more than tough,

Not a bad idea. I mean the only area it would present a problem is lakes or river systems where there are multiple strains. Like down here in Va we have Briery Creek Lake. In the 80s or 90s they stocked Florida Strain Bass in the lake. Now not alot is known about whether or not this particular strain has survived up to the current times however fish of that strain have been pulled out over the years. And what has happend is that strain had bred with the Northern Strain and created a new strain of aggressive bass which is currently in here. Don't ask me the name as I have no clue. This is all from what I have read and heard about from locals and people that fish this particular lake.

Now whether they have a name for this particular strain or if it is just a genetic difference in this one particular strain thus not creating a new one, I'm not sure.

But it is my belief if they do it for this one strain they are going to have to come out with new regulations for each particular strain of bass or new "records" so to speak and supply information on which strains are found in which lakes.

Then we run into the problem of certain people catching these fish and misinterpreting them for a different starin as stated before. It's just a lot of work. But I do believe it could work if implemented correctly. Good idea overall.

roadwarrior reply :

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Just think the world record was in GA for the longest time, I think 50+ years (don't remember actually years), and now it is in CA, so the south doesn't have the world record Largemouth, the west does. We do still the record Smallmouth. But if your in another country you don't have either record.

George Perry still holds THE World Record (6/02/32). The California bass was caught illegally (California State Regulations) and does not qualify for recognition by the IGFA.

8-)

Matt Fly reply :

As mentioned, there are too many variables to identify to ensure that the fish being submitted did actually come from within the zones as you mentioned.

If you make special rules for Bass and WR's, then the next step would be for us hunters in the south to ask for WR zones for our smaller deer in the south, compared to the northern horses ya'll grow.

Not ever state is created equally. northern states also have ice shanty's and we don't get that luxury in Texas.

We don't have pond Ice hockey either. We don't get to snow ski and such. If we want to participate in those endeavors, we must travel.

I'm gonna say leave it as is. Its the holy grail of most freshwater records, the change that now would only water down its true bench mark.

matt

Del from philly reply :

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As mentioned, there are too many variables to identify to ensure that the fish being submitted did actually come from within the zones as you mentioned.
If you make special rules for Bass and WR's, then the next step would be for us hunters in the south to ask for WR zones for our smaller deer in the south, compared to the northern horses ya'll grow.

Not ever state is created equally. northern states also have ice shanty's and we don't get that luxury in Texas.

We don't have pond Ice hockey either. We don't get to snow ski and such. If we want to participate in those endeavors, we must travel.

I'm gonna say leave it as is. Its the holy grail of most freshwater records, the change that now would only water down its true bench mark.

matt

GREAT STUFF!

I just feel like a 10 LB bass in Pa would be a big deal, and in cali or florida or texas it would be nothing...

just seems strange they dont identify the difference....

also, what if somebody caught a 18 lb fish in Pa??? nobody would care??? might not be possible, but ya never know

to me, that would be bigger than catching a 22lber in florida anyday....

Paul Roberts reply :

Excellent question -holy moly!

Excellent responses too. I agree, without expensive genetic testing, maintaining meaningful "official" records would be impossible.

But, this does not mean that magazines, and angler webpages couldn't offer meaningful recognition of angler catches, for boasting (not my thing) and better, for the information.

This might be done on a regional (like IF does it), or better, a state by state basis. I think states with a known history of Florida strain bass stocking could be highlighted in red, as well.

The largest northern subspecies largemouth ever caught was a 15+ freak taken in MA. Otherwise all others seem to peak out in the 11lb range. An accurately weighed 6lb northern largemouth is a rare fish in the majority of lakes and ponds throughout the country. Maybe an 8 in the south, although again I think floridanus states should be noted.

BassMaster magazine's Lunker Club only recognizes bass over 10lbs! This entirely precludes entry for the majority of anglers across the country. I also think it sets an unreachable bar and set of expectations for anglers around the country.

I have to say I'm tired of hearing about 10lb bass here in the north. Every kid has a story of such mythical beasts seen, lost, or caught by a buddy. I don't mind the sharing of the dream; It's the unrealistic proportions of that dream that bothers me. Not that there aren't 8 and even 10lb bass in the north, but not in the frequency I hear of them. I think a lot of this has to do with the unreal expectations set up by the media (magazines and TV bassin').

Excellent topic.

jwo1124 reply :

I didn't read everyone individual posts, so forgive me if someone already entioned this, but, why don;t you just focus on your State's record largemouth bass. That is truly the only fair way to do it seeing how bass have a longer feeding/growing season down south, not to mention guys can fish for thm more often than the northern guys due to ice over. You;d be suprised to think that Northern Bass cant get that big...The Massachusetts State Record for a Largemouth Bass is 15.8 lbs. caught in 1975 out of Sampson Pond in Carver, MA by Walter Bolonis. Got that straight from the mass.gov/wildlife web site.

Imagine a 15 lb. Lunker swimming around in your local pond!!!!!

Del from philly reply :

im really not even talking about myself. im no record chaser.

i just feel liek these huge bass get all the credit.

They should put more emphasis on the strain. It would nice to know what the world record northern strain bass would be. Does anyone have any idea?

Your right though, you could just concentrate on state records....i just dont see why we clump 2 seperate strains together when their is such a difference in size and wieight.

Im basicly a sore loser from the north!

Paul Roberts reply :

Johnnydel, your NOT a "loser", and that's the real point here. The magazines that tout only floridanus subspecies bass, and those that get sucked into the myth, are the real losers. And by "losers" I don't mean the derogatory sense of the word here. It's a lost perception of what a 3, 4, or 6lb bass means in most waters.

senile1 reply :

I like it as is. Every region has its advantages. If you want to catch hefty northern Pike and Muskies, living in the North is to your advantage.

JCrzy4Bass reply :

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Johnnydel, your NOT a "loser", and that's the real point here. The magazines that tout only floridanus subspecies bass, and those that get sucked into the myth, are the real losers. And by "losers" I don't mean the derogatory sense of the word here. It's a lost perception of what a 3, 4, or 6lb bass means in most waters.

Great point Paul. I had a friend three months ago move down to Florida. Never caught anything over 2.5lbs here in Northern Virginia. First week in Florida she reeled in and landed an 8lber on her local pond down the road from her house. Since then she's reeled in some over 5lbs as well. Here in Va that is like almost a once in a lifetime fish unless you fish a few select lakes in the southwest region of the state on the border of NC. It's all perception based.

In Va, a 5-6 lb fish is a hog. I don't care who you are and what you've caught. At least around the Northern Va parts. These catches only come few and far between.

Most importantly be proud of any catch you make regardless of size. You got that fish to bite, you were able to manipulate the bait in a way that triggered that fish to believe it was a real living thing or a dying thing. It was your skill, and yes maybe sometimes part luck that got that fish on your line. Enjoy each catch. Cause in these winter months and ice overs we have in the north and the DC area in Northern Va it sucks not being able to go out and reel one in.

I think the guys in the south in places like Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc aren't as humble or lose touch with the sport a little and forget that all it really is about is the fish on the end of the line and the fight you are given, where as the guy who pulls in a 2-3 lber in the northern states is extremely excited.

And let's face it we all brag about every great catch because we are fishermen, we are competitive and there wouldn't be anything to shoot for if we didn't have anything to beat or a previous catch that just wow'ed the heck out of us. We all brag! But not only that, we share our experiences, because each is a story that we all can enjoy and relate to.

And I just want to say I'm not turning this into a debate over who's better than who, everyone of us is on the same plane, other than the god gifted pros and semi pros who have worked their butts off for what they own and do on a daily basis... I wish I had what they did.

So to end that particular statement I'd like to mention there are great guys on this forum that make absolutely incredible catches on a consistent basis that are as modest as I've ever met. And the great thing is they are always willing to share their experiences and knowledge with us.

And who knows, if we moved down there we'd get sick of 2-3 lbers too. All we would want is fish over 7-8 lbs. We'd think less of ourselves if we couldn't do that. It's based on region and the average available fish to be caught.

If you don't have 8-10 lbers in your region, spool up some light line in the 4-6 lb range take your light pole with a stiff action and go out there and catch em' that way. It's the closest thing we'll be able to get.

powerman970 reply :

Maybe they should have one world record per zip code that way we could all have one. The bottom line is, if you want a shot at a record fish, then go to where the record fish are instead of asking for the rules to be changed so that your odds are better. I live in the south and I could make the same argument as you, but instead, if I want to catch a record fish I'll get a plane ticket to California.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or start anything. I just feel that one of the biggest problems with the world today is that everyone wants everything either dumbed down or made easier to suit them or their situation. Think of it this way....Wherever that next record bass may be, most of the population is nowhere near it.

Del from philly reply :

Quote

Quote
Johnnydel, your NOT a "loser", and that's the real point here. The magazines that tout only floridanus subspecies bass, and those that get sucked into the myth, are the real losers. And by "losers" I don't mean the derogatory sense of the word here. It's a lost perception of what a 3, 4, or 6lb bass means in most waters.

nice thought out responce, im glad i posted this topic....GREAT ANSWERS...funny how the opinions vary

Its just funny hearing people dismiss a 2lber like a dink. They actually call them dinks and everything...lol...

to me, if i get a 2lber in, it was a good day. If I get a 4 lber in, im happy for the season!

i have my pic of my 4.2 lb smallie right above my desk like its a world record....

Great point Paul. I had a friend three months ago move down to Florida. Never caught anything over 2.5lbs here in Northern Virginia. First week in Florida she reeled in and landed an 8lber on her local pond down the road from her house. Since then she's reeled in some over 5lbs as well. Here in Va that is like almost a once in a lifetime fish unless you fish a few select lakes in the southwest region of the state on the border of NC. It's all perception based.

In Va, a 5-6 lb fish is a hog. I don't care who you are and what you've caught. At least around the Northern Va parts. These catches only come few and far between.

Most importantly be proud of any catch you make regardless of size. You got that fish to bite, you were able to manipulate the bait in a way that triggered that fish to believe it was a real living thing or a dying thing. It was your skill, and yes maybe sometimes part luck that got that fish on your line. Enjoy each catch. Cause in these winter months and ice overs we have in the north and the DC area in Northern Va it sucks not being able to go out and reel one in.

I think the guys in the south in places like Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Louisiana, etc aren't as humble or lose touch with the sport a little and forget that all it really is about is the fish on the end of the line and the fight you are given, where as the guy who pulls in a 2-3 lber in the northern states is extremely excited.

And let's face it we all brag about every great catch because we are fishermen, we are competitive and there wouldn't be anything to shoot for if we didn't have anything to beat or a previous catch that just wow'ed the heck out of us. We all brag! But not only that, we share our experiences, because each is a story that we all can enjoy and relate to.

And I just want to say I'm not turning this into a debate over who's better than who, everyone of us is on the same plane, other than the god gifted pros and semi pros who have worked their butts off for what they own and do on a daily basis... I wish I had what they did.

So to end that particular statement I'd like to mention there are great guys on this forum that make absolutely incredible catches on a consistent basis that are as modest as I've ever met. And the great thing is they are always willing to share their experiences and knowledge with us.

And who knows, if we moved down there we'd get sick of 2-3 lbers too. All we would want is fish over 7-8 lbs. We'd think less of ourselves if we couldn't do that. It's based on region and the average available fish to be caught.

If you don't have 8-10 lbers in your region, spool up some light line in the 4-6 lb range take your light pole with a stiff action and go out there and catch em' that way. It's the closest thing we'll be able to get.

JCrzy4Bass reply :

4.2 smallie is a pig in my neck of the woods too. I only smallie fished four times last year and caught 8 or 9. Learning trial. However you should have seen my face glow when I pulled in my pb 1lb 13oz. Lol, now I look at a bunch of the bigger ones and I'm like wow I got some work to do even in my area. But I'm proud of the catch none the less.

Paul Roberts reply :

Powerman, LOL a record per zip code! That's good. I might just have mine LOL!

My point isn't about world records, although admittedly that's what the original post mentioned. It's about the appropriate perception and recognition of big bass.

A glaring example is the BassMaster "Lunker Club" that only recognizes 10lb and up largemouths. In more than half the country, that's not even possible! What's up BassMaster?? You have readers all over the country, and some pretty proud anglers with their 6 or 7lb northern largemouths! (Is that akin to a 10lb florida?? I dunno what the number might be.)

Correct me if I'm wrong Johnnydel, but I think that was the gist of the thread?

WRB reply :

There should be a record for each type of bass; Smallmouth, Spotted, nothern strain largemouth and Florida strain largemouth.

The differences between each bass is easy to identify. Spots have teeth on thier tongue, smallmouth have connected dorsal fins, northern strain LMB have 8 front dorsal spines and 58 pore lateral line scales, Florida strian have 9 front dorsal spines and 69 pore lateral line scales. The only issue becomes the Florida/nothern LMB intergrades. However all LMB with 59 lateral line scales or more should be classed as Florida strian, regardless if it's F1 to F3 generation or a Texas genetic engineered LMB.

The length and girth difference between FLMB and NLMB are substantial. NLMB rarely have a girth that exceeds 80% of the length and FLMB usually have a girth exceeding 90%. This means that a FLMB of the same length usually out weighs the NLMB. Example;

using the Length X length X girth / 1200 formula:

28" length, 80% = 22 1/2" girth (max), 28" with 90% (avg) 25 1/4"

The 28L X 22.5G = 14.7 lbs., max for NLMB

The 28L X 25.25 = 16.5 lbs., average for FLMB

however if you use 95% girth, 28L X 26.6G = 17.4 lbs

The maximum a NLMB could weigh is 16 lbs for a 29 inch long bass.

The maximum a FLMB could weigh is 20 lbs for a 29 inch long bass.

FLMB have been known to grow to a length of 32 inches (WR), nothern is around 29 inches. Two very different bass and they should have their own record status.

WRB

Sam reply :

No, just won't work.

Take college football for example.

The BCS and AP rank teams from all over the country as to their strength and wins.

But when you look at the SEC and LSU and realize that they are so good it makes the northern teams from the Big 10 and Ohio State look bad in comparision.

Not to say there is anything wrong with the Big-10 and Ohio State. Saying that the southern teams and conferences are just better.

Southern fishing is just better.

End of subject.

Period.

JCrzy4Bass reply :

Dang on! WRB knows his bass.

Sam, what you say about southern fishing definately being better is true (aside from smallies up north at Lake Erie). But that is different than talking about why or why certain fish should be seperated into strains. But I do give you the fact that the two are very hard to compare against each other (bass strains), and should be left as seperate entities... but that just helps the fact that they should be split up into different records.

And ps: I'm a BC fan... I beg to differ about those southern teams, but that's for another time lol.

fishizzle reply :

Obviously the easiest way to solve the problem is introduce the florida bass to the north

If scientists can clone animals or grow someone another arm with stem cells, they certainly should be able to figure out how to make a Florida bass survive the winter in the north

Oh wait you still have a longer growing season

forget what I said

WRB reply :

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No, just won't work.
Take college football for example.

The BCS and AP rank teams from all over the country as to their strength and wins.

But when you look at the SEC and LSU and realize that they are so good it makes the northern teams from the Big 10 and Ohio State look bad in comparision.

Not to say there is anything wrong with the Big-10 and Ohio State. Saying that the southern teams and conferences are just better.

Southern fishing is just better.

End of subject.

Period.

Based on your logic we should have Western bass, more national championships in football and the biggest bass on the board are all from the west.

WRB

Paul Roberts reply :

Hmmmm...I'm not so big on football...and I do love walleyes and perch caught through the ice...And another thing, I like my tomatoes red!

End of subject! LOL

Matt Fly reply :

I think some one said the large northern strain was 15.8 from Ma. No matter what strain, 15.8 is your record that is already set.

As to bring F-1's to the north. Florida strains don't like cold water.

But the Holy Grail is and always be the one that is sought after now. George Perry's mark.

And state records are impressive also. I know I'd be proud to a state record holder.

Sam reply :

WRB,

You got it!

George Welcome reply :

Everyone missed the boat on this one folks: This record of George Perry's is a "World Record", not a north vs. south record. Based on the discussion I guess we should have a Spanish bass, or a Swiss bass category also.

George Welcome reply :

Two are recognized: the northern largemouth (M. s. salmoides) and the Florida largemouth (M. s. floridanus). The two look much the same, but the Florida largemouth has 69-73 scales along the lateral line compared to the northern largemouth's 59-65 scales.

"There should be a record for each type of bass; Smallmouth, Spotted, nothern strain largemouth and Florida strain largemouth.

using the Length X length X girth / 1200 formula:

28" length, 80% = 22 1/2" girth (max), 28" with 90% (avg) 25 1/4"

The 28L X 22.5G = 14.7 lbs., max for NLMB

The 28L X 25.25 = 16.5 lbs., average for FLMB

however if you use 95% girth, 28L X 26.6G = 17.4 lbs

The maximum a NLMB could weigh is 16 lbs for a 29 inch long bass.

The maximum a FLMB could weigh is 20 lbs for a 29 inch long bass.

FLMB have been known to grow to a length of 32 inches (WR), nothern is around 29 inches. Two very different bass and they should have their own record status.

WRB "

I don't know where you get your information but it is quite a bit incorrect. Florida strain, as the Northern strain are torpedo shape. However, Forida strain bass in both Texas and California will have a gravid appearance quite often. If you classified bass by scales along the lateral line as you propose than you classifiy all bass as southern strain. (M. s. floridanus)

WRB reply :

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Two are recognized: the northern largemouth (M. s. salmoides) and the Florida largemouth (M. s. floridanus). The two look much the same, but the Florida largemouth has 69-73 scales along the lateral line compared to the northern largemouth's 59-65 scales.
"There should be a record for each type of bass; Smallmouth, Spotted, nothern strain largemouth and Florida strain largemouth.

The differences between each bass is easy to identify. Spots have teeth on thier tongue, smallmouth have connected dorsal fins, northern strain LMB have 8 front dorsal spines and 58 pore lateral line scales, Florida strian have 9 front dorsal spines and 69 pore lateral line scales. The only issue becomes the Florida/nothern LMB intergrades. However all LMB with 59 lateral line scales or more should be classed as Florida strian, regardless if it's F1 to F3 generation or a Texas genetic engineered LMB.

The length and girth difference between FLMB and NLMB are substantial. NLMB rarely have a girth that exceeds 80% of the length and FLMB usually have a girth exceeding 90%. This means that a FLMB of the same length usually out weighs the NLMB. Example;

using the Length X length X girth / 1200 formula:

28" length, 80% = 22 1/2" girth (max), 28" with 90% (avg) 25 1/4"

The 28L X 22.5G = 14.7 lbs., max for NLMB

The 28L X 25.25 = 16.5 lbs., average for FLMB

however if you use 95% girth, 28L X 26.6G = 17.4 lbs

The maximum a NLMB could weigh is 16 lbs for a 29 inch long bass.

The maximum a FLMB could weigh is 20 lbs for a 29 inch long bass.

FLMB have been known to grow to a length of 32 inches (WR), nothern is around 29 inches. Two very different bass and they should have their own record status.

WRB "

I don't know where you get your information but it is quite a bit incorrect. Florida strain, as the Northern strain are torpedo shape. However, Forida strain bass in both Texas and California will have a gravid appearance quite often. If you classified bass by scales along the lateral line as you propose than you classifiy all bass as southern strain. (M. s. floridanus)

Thats what happens when you get old, memory... should be above 65 not 59 lateral line scales, 59 is the published data in most reference books. Stand corrected.

What is your stand in 2 separate records?

The Perry bass is very questionable, not valid picture or weight witness. I have always accepted the Perry bass simply because it is the establised record. When you considered the second largest bass ever recorded in Georgia is less than 18 lbs..you tend to have second thoughts.

WRB

JCrzy4Bass reply :

The international bass is where it gets complicated. Because I see all these guys posting from those countries in the Europe area, Australia, and then Mexico too. Overall as far as world records go, it definately would be very tough. But the start of this discussion was basically on Northern and Floridian being seperate. I'm just curious exactly how many other strains there are in the states aside from these two if any.

Are the bass in Texas and Cali a seperate strain as well? Or do they just grow that huge because the growing seasons?

WRB reply :

Quote
The international bass is where it gets complicated. Because I see all these guys posting from those countries in the Europe area, Australia, and then Mexico too. Overall as far as world records go, it definately would be very tough. But the start of this discussion was basically on Northern and Floridian being seperate. I'm just curious exactly how many other strains there are in the states aside from these two if any.
Are the bass in Texas and Cali a seperate strain as well? Or do they just grow that huge because the growing seasons?

There are only the 2 strains of LMB, northern and Florida. The northern strian originally planted in California came from Minnesota back in the 1890's by Dr Henshall. California doesn't have any native bass. The Florida strain was introduced by in 1959 by Orval Ball, who planted the Florida's in San Diego city lakes. Intregrades or mixtures of NLMB and FLMB occur naturally where both strains share the same water. The intergrades are still FLMB, just not pure FLMB.

Texas originally planted Florida strain, like California. Then Texas started an selective harvest where big bass were used for brood fish via the Share a Lunker program, to use natural genetic process to produce bigger bass, however they were still natural Floridia strian LMB. About 10 years ago Texas started to gene splice giant bass DNA into Florida/NLMB to create a strain more tolerant to cold temperatures and be a little more agressive to increase catch rates. They still would be classified as Florida strain bass and only time will tell if they out grow the natural FLMB.

WRB

WRB reply :

GW, shape has a lot to do with the avalble food source. Football shape bass, both FLMB and NLMB occur where high protein food is abundant. However it has been my experience that FLMB outgrow NLMB in the same lake, with the same food source. Agree that NLMB are more elongated, thinner bodied bass, than FLMB and can not achieve the same weight. That is why I believe 2 record classes should be established.

Prior to the FLMB being planted into Ca lakes, the CA record was 14 lb 8 oz. My PB NLMB is 12 lbs 4 oz caught in lake Casitas in 1971, my best FLMB from lake Casitas is 18 lbs 11 oz, caught in 1981, PB FLMB is 19.3 lbs caught at lake Castaic in 1995. There is no doubt that FLMB outgrow NLMB in the same lakes with the same food source.

WRB

Del from philly reply :

You got it!

its everything from world records to perception....

Quote
Powerman, LOL a record per zip code! That's good. I might just have mine LOL!
My point isn't about world records, although admittedly that's what the original post mentioned. It's about the appropriate perception and recognition of big bass.

A glaring example is the BassMaster "Lunker Club" that only recognizes 10lb and up largemouths. In more than half the country, that's not even possible! What's up BassMaster?? You have readers all over the country, and some pretty proud anglers with their 6 or 7lb northern largemouths! (Is that akin to a 10lb florida?? I dunno what the number might be.)

Correct me if I'm wrong Johnnydel, but I think that was the gist of the thread?

Randall reply :

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GW, shape has a lot to do with the avalble food source. Football shape bass, both FLMB and NLMB occur where high protein food is abundant. However it has been my experience that FLMB outgrow NLMB in the same lake, with the same food source. Agree that NLMB are more elongated, thinner bodied bass, than FLMB and can not achieve the same weight. That is why I believe 2 record classes should be established.

It's been my experience that shape has much to do with the type of food source and abundance of it but here in GA our larger northern strain bass are more football shaped while our intergrades are more torpeedo shaped as George said. What limits a northern strain bass weight here is length not girth. It is also growth rate with our intergrades reaching the same lengths faster. Also, at some point north of me I am sure the Northen bass will outgrow the Florida bass in the same lake. I have no problem with two records but just looking at my two best fish from Ga they aren't too far apart I have a 13.8 northern strain and a 15lb 12oz intergrade. My northern strain was a football shaped bass nearly six inches shorter than my torpeedo shaped intergrade bass. Freak football shaped Florida intergrade bass pretty much only happen in Texas and California so why not just make a seperate California and Texas record as well or say the record don't count if it comes from California or Texas. :-? Note: for those in Texas or California I am just being sarcastic so don't get upset. ;D

Del from philly reply :

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Everyone missed the boat on this one folks: This record of George Perry's is a "World Record", not a north vs. south record. Based on the discussion I guess we should have a Spanish bass, or a Swiss bass category also.

i dont get this one at all...

is their a spanish strain bass? or a swiss strain? if their is, please retract my statement.

but thats not a fair comparaison at all....i mean, these 2 strains are clearly different, they have different habitats, their anatomy slightly differs....

I just dont see how hard it would really be if the spines are less for a northern strain, couldnt they just take a descent picture where the spines can be counted?

I mean, the current method isnt 100% either....it will always involve trust.....

plus, we always have the lie detecter to fall back on...

Also, why were at it, why not clump spotted bass into the world record largemouth.....this logic wouldnt work their, so why does it work here?

Matt Fly reply :

Randall, no worries, Texas shouldn't be in the conversation. We have one docuemented bass at 18.18, some 17's, Long ways from the 20 lb barrier, not to mention 22 lbs 4 ozs.

I'm lucky to have a state that noticed it sold lots of fishing license, to wit, alot of bass fishemen. So the state did its part.

Could you imagine what Cali waters could be like if they actually stocked bass? Or had a program like Texas.

To the best of my knowledge, Texas biologist have not been trying to mutate DNA for superbass, they have tried to spawn the best genetics available for the best seed to be restocked.

I wonder if the IGFA has been asked that question before and what was there response?

Del from philly reply :

Bottom line....

I feel like the World record should have nothing to do with location.

it should have to do with catching the largest fish of that species or strain. Period.

Why would any fisherman be against this idea ?

i just dont understand?

Matt Fly reply :

The "next" world record may come from South Africa, Cuba, or Mexico to name a few.

Now if you are seeking a United States Record, then you have 15.8 lbs coming from the North that was caught in Massachusetts. Northern Strain

And you have George Perry's from the South. Thus Mr. Perry's bass would be the current US record and World Record bass. No proof of what his strain was, only speculation of what populus of bass that body of water had. Again, no guarantees .

Then you have your own bars set in each state. Mine is at 18 and some change. Those in Georgia, well, you set the bar pretty high.

roadwarrior reply :

We have a similar problem setting a new State Record for smallmouth in this state. :

8-)

George Welcome reply :

There is at least a 98% certainty that the Perry bass was either an F1 or a Northern. To be pure Florida strain it would have had to been planted.

The World record of any species is just that with no differentiation for the locale that it came from. So is the world record for bass, which of course is not really a bass. That is why the record states for a Largemouth Bass.

WRB reply :

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Randall, no worries, Texas shouldn't be in the conversation. We have one docuemented bass at 18.18, some 17's, Long ways from the 20 lb barrier, not to mention 22 lbs 4 ozs.
I'm lucky to have a state that noticed it sold lots of fishing license, to wit, alot of bass fishemen. So the state did its part.

Could you imagine what Cali waters could be like if they actually stocked bass? Or had a program like Texas.

To the best of my knowledge, Texas biologist have not been trying to mutate DNA for superbass, they have tried to spawn the best genetics available for the best seed to be restocked.

I wonder if the IGFA has been asked that question before and what was there response?

Texas dos a wonderful job of managing their bass population. California doesn't manage our bass, they are on their own, other than to establish slot limits in a few lakes that are pressured beyond belief.

Check with your Share A Lunker Program managers, they are working with a local university with DNA gene program. You are right on with how the program started and continues, however they added the gene splicing program, not to make bigger bass but more resiliant to temperature changes to improve their health.

No distinction between LMB as far as the IGFA is concerned. If you can't see the difference without knowing there is a difference; like brown color and teeth on the tongue, to the IGFA and most fisherman a bass is a bass. The facts say they are seperate species; Florida grow over 30" long, NLMB less than 28" ( mouth closed to tip of tail). The Perry bass was reported to be 32" long,so it had to be a Florida strain LMB. The perry bass was caught near the Georgia / Florida border, well within it's natural range.

Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up, as bass is a bass, or is it a sunfish? My vote, 2 records.

WRB

UrbanRedneck reply :

The reason there is only one world record for largemouth bass is because there is only one species of largemouth bass. Northern strain and Florida strain are subspecies. Until they are separated, and discussion continues among those researchers that do the species separations, there will only be one world record. Pretty simple.

Hey WRB, check this out:

"Northern strain largemouth bass (Micropterus salmoides salmoides) were introduced to California in 1874 when they were transported from Quincy, Illinois and released into the Napa River and Alameda Creek (Emig 1966). Florida strain largemouth bass (Micropterus salmoides floridanus) were introduced to California in 1959 when they were transported from Pensacola, Florida and released into Upper Otay Reservoir in San Diego County (Pelzman 1980)."

If ya need full citations let me know.

Oh, and to the person who said something like "at least we still have the world record smallmouth", you may want to hold your breath. Cali is going to have that record soon.

George Welcome reply :

Geeesh: Pure Florida strain bass are a southern Florida inhabitant. Intergrades are a northern Florida inhabitant. The line of separation is what is known as the weather line which goes from Melbourne to Tampa. The last lake north that guarantees a pure strain Florida Bass happens to be Stick Marsh/Farm 13. So sayeth the Biologists of the Fresh Water Commission who are in charge of these things and knowledgeable about these things.

You see, we sit on the cusp of south Florida, so the Perry Bass either had to be an intergrade, a northern bass, or one that was planted.

guest reply :

Why don't we have 2 Home Run records those for leftys and those for rightys, why don't we have stikeout records the same or place kicking the same. While stats like these are in fact kept the one that is important is the World Record. The is only one world record bass, there are state and lake records too.

Del from philly reply :

i guess i just dont understand what a strain really is enough to really make good points.....

i thought for sure everyone would agree....i mean, isnt it true the florida strain bass cant even survive in the cold weather?

How simular can they really be if they cant survive in the same waters? And the difference in spines....

i know all the south people , and cali people are against this

but id like to here what fellow yankees think of this?

Maybe you have to be a part of the world that has no shot of the world record to be on my side here???

who knows....i still dont see why people are making it out to be such a dead topic.....so black and white....

i think this topic is every shade of grey

either way, great debate!

WRB reply :

Urban,

I don't disagree with the 1874 Napa river NLMB planting. ASU has a plaque near some ponds honoring Dr. Henshall on the University where he transplanted NLMB from Minn to stock both AZ and CA.

When I wrote a article for In-Fisherman "Rare chance for a world record", published Jan '86, my research on FLMB including talking to Jim Brown, Orval Ball and Larry Bothroff, the people who brought the bass from Florida to San Diego and managed the program. The bass in question came from Crpress Gardens Fl in 1959 and were initially planted into holding ponds near where lake Miramar is located. The pure FLMB were then transplanted into upper Otay and lake Hodges, both closed to the public at the time. I don't know where the information came from with the source you noted, there certainly could have been more than on transplant, however the people involved didn't mention that to me at the time.

If interseted email me and I can send you a copy of the In-Fisherman article.

Larry Bothroff was the San Diego fishery biologists who monitoured the FLMB program for over 30 years, until he retired a few years ago.

Jim Brown was the city lakes manager, Orval Ball was city manager who came up with the original plan. From a biologist point of view the transplant was considered a failure. The FLMB grow faster and bigger as planned, but the catch rate for angler hours went down, fewer bass being caught by the average angler and the transplants discontinued by San Diego city lakes. The fact that the FLMB started growing to giant size was not part of the initail plan.

WRB

UrbanRedneck reply :

Im very familar with Mr. Botroff. My info comes from exhaustive literature reviews, your info comes from people who were involved. So, if those you spoke with have good memories, your info may be more accurate. Ill send you full citations on Monday.

guest reply :

10700

Why dont they have 2 records for Largemouth bass? N & S? 2024

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