Mr. Bassin II reply : 

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A-Jay reply : 

When priorities are out of whack ~ 

A-Jay

 

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Sam reply : 

The crazy guy is a Toolame fan.

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NHBull reply : 

If a man on a dock pours gas on me, that puts him at 3-4 meters........I wouldn’t miss!

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Darren. reply : 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Darren.
Fixed image

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Mr. Bassin II reply : 

  On 6/14/2018 at 7:41 AM, NHBull said:

If a man on a dock pours gas on me, that puts him at 3-4 meters........I wouldn’t miss!

Knowing how the ol'baws down here can be, would not have been surprised if this would have happened.

 

Actually, about five years ago, on the same lake, a landowner did fire at two fishermen for fishing around his dock similar to the guys in this article.  Luckily no one was injured and the landowner was held responsible for his actions.

 

On another note, the fishing on this lake justifies these risks.   

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greentrout reply : 

Confrontations like this happen on the La./Ms. marsh...No wake zone be careful... good fishing...

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OCdockskipper reply : 

The thing that caught my eye is that the guilty party is 64 years old.  How in the world do you live this long on this planet and still 1) Get mad at other people fishing near your dock & 2) Think it is a good idea to throw gasoline on anyone?  If a 20-something had done it, I could have understood and chalked it up to stupid youthful bravado.  But 64?!?  C'Mon man...

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Angry John reply : 

And this my friends is how you get killed.  Try that in Texas and you will not get a second chance to harass anyone.  Cooler heads prevailed in this case but the land owner was lucky.  

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Bluebasser86 reply : 

Had a way overserved, (and overstuffed), fella tell me and gardnerjigman to "Get out of here, we don't need you crowding us", when I guess he felt we got too close to his dock. There was a couple in a pontoon floating off the end of their dock talking back and forth so I tried to go around the back side, off towards the middle of the lake, but drunk #2 that was driving the boat started it up and began backing towards my boat, so I cut to the inside and kicked the motor up on 100% right before he threw it into ramming speed full speed ahead towards the dock. That's when the guy on the dock, who's shirtless stomach was about longer than his shorts, decided I was "crowding them", even though if his eyes hadn't been glassy and watering so bad, he probably could have seen I was just trying to avoid getting run into by his drunk buddy in his "vintage" (see also piece of junk), pontoon. It's really rare to have anyone say anything around here, usually it's the opposite where they want to know if you're catching anything and will even point out areas around their docks where they've seen fish. My BIL and I even had a conversation with a guy at 1AM who stumbled down to his dock from his backyard party to ask us how the fishing was and poured his heart out that he couldn't catch anything and wanted to know what he needed to do to catch a fish. I doubt he remembers what I told him, but it was funny that it was eating at him bad enough that he left his party to come talk to us about it. 

The rare times I've encountered a dock troll, I just move along, it isn't worth the hassle to me. Neighbors shoot each other over grass clippings getting blown into their yards and now gas getting thrown on people for fishing public water, nope, no little green fish is worth that to me. Kansas does have harassment laws though that you can't harass or interfere with a legal hunting or fishing party and I've heard of it being enforced. That would be the only advisable course of action if someone was being a problem. 

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TOXIC reply : 

They could have charged him with willfully dumping fuel in the lake as well!!  

 

I error on the side of submission to avoid conflict but I also fish the Potomac where confrontation is a daily occurrence.  Sometimes you just can't avoid it.  

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NYWayfarer reply : 

  On 6/14/2018 at 10:29 AM, OCdockskipper said:

The thing that caught my eye is that the guilty party is 64 years old.  How in the world do you live this long on this planet and still 1) Get mad at other people fishing near your dock & 2) Think it is a good idea to throw gasoline on anyone?  If a 20-something had done it, I could have understood and chalked it up to stupid youthful bravado.  But 64?!?  C'Mon man...

Sounds like Dementia to me.

 

Harassment on the water is no joke. I had two boats tailing my kayak this weekend. They would anchor less then 20' away from me every time I stopped anywhere. I am one of those rare folks that do not target docks anymore. My aim is not the greatest and I do not want to damage anyone's property. I tend to avoid populated fishing areas for more rural ones.

 

My shadows could clearly see I was casting away from shore, looking for deeper pockets yet they continued stalking me until I moved to where there was no shoreline property. I have had issues in the same areas from boaters mad  that I am in their spot. I rarely if ever anchor. Most of the time I stay less than 20 minutes in one spot. It's quite frustrating.

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Gundog reply : 

My opinion is the boaters did the right thing in this case. Reported the individual to the proper authorities and didn't escalate the situation. There are a lot of crazy people out there. I know some people say they would have shot the man. The legal ramifications of that are huge. Even if you are justified legally that doesn't mean you get off free. There are lawsuits that have bankrupted people who were, by the law, in the right. Not to mention the stress of any investigation hanging over your head. Not worth it.

  On 6/14/2018 at 3:23 PM, Bluebasser86 said:

no little green fish is worth that to me

^^^Bingo. Be careful out there. Remember its suppose to be fun. If someone is trying to ruin that fun, move along. 

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Glaucus reply : 

  On 6/14/2018 at 8:40 PM, Gundog said:

My opinion is the boaters did the right thing in this case. Reported the individual to the proper authorities and didn't escalate the situation. There are a lot of crazy people out there. I know some people say they would have shot the man. The legal ramifications of that are huge. Even if you are justified legally that doesn't mean you get off free. There are lawsuits that have bankrupted people who were, by the law, in the right. Not to mention the stress of any investigation hanging over your head. Not worth it.

^^^Bingo. Be careful out there. Remember its suppose to be fun. If someone is trying to ruin that fun, move along. 

Wouldn't be hard to justify shooting the jerk at all. Poured gasoline on people who would then fear for their lives thinking he was gonna spark a flame.

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Gundog reply : 

  On 6/14/2018 at 10:12 PM, Glaucus said:

Wouldn't be hard to justify shooting the jerk at all. Poured gasoline on people who would then fear for their lives thinking he was gonna spark a flame.

If you ever get to talk to a trial lawyer I think you would believe differently. I got to talk to one when a relative of mine was involved in a shooting. The lawyer basically told me that even if he was justified he could still be convicted of the shooting or a huge number of other crimes that range from discharging a weapon near a residence to disturbing the peace. Most of which could lead to him losing lots of money, his job, hunting license and freedom even if he wasn't jailed. House arrest, monitored release or what ever you call it doesn't look like fun to me. All I'm trying to say with my posts is THINK BEFORE YOU ACT. Don't be like the guy with the gasoline because then you become no better than him.

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D3FT reply : 

Ok, pouring gas on someone is bad, but why (legal or not) do you need to fish so close to a persons property that they can pour gas on you from a hand held gas can?  

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NYWayfarer reply : 

  On 6/14/2018 at 10:12 PM, Glaucus said:

Wouldn't be hard to justify shooting the jerk at all. Poured gasoline on people who would then fear for their lives thinking he was gonna spark a flame.

I can see the news now. 64 year old man shot dead after pouring gasoline on angler near his dock. Consequently the angler burned to death as the muzzle flash from his gun discharge set the gasoline on fire.

 

Darwinism at it's best.

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OCdockskipper reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 1:18 AM, D3FT said:

Ok, pouring gas on someone is bad, but why (legal or not) do you need to fish so close to a persons property that they can pour gas on you from a hand held gas can?  

No one "needs" to fish close to a dock, nor do they "need" to fish a certain cove or lake for that matter.  Heck, those of us who practice catch & release don't even "need" to fish at all.

 

However, there are many legitimate reasons why someone would "want" to fish close to a dock.  Common sense and basic etiquette tell you not to crowd someone who is using a dock, even if they are just relaxing in a chair on it.  However, if the dock is unoccupied, there should be no issue with someone fishing close to it, needs have nothing to do with it.

 

Mark Zona had a funny skit utilizing Greg Hackney about this subject.  Good manners & a pleasant disposition will work with the 99% of the population who doesn't consider gasoline to be a cologne.

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the reel ess reply : 

  On 6/14/2018 at 7:41 AM, NHBull said:

If a man on a dock pours gas on me, that puts him at 3-4 meters........I wouldn’t miss!

Think about that. You have gasoline on you and you're going to fire a FIREarm.

  On 6/15/2018 at 2:19 AM, OCdockskipper said:

No one "needs" to fish close to a dock, nor do they "need" to fish a certain cove or lake for that matter.  Heck, those of us who practice catch & release don't even "need" to fish at all.

 

However, there are many legitimate reasons why someone would "want" to fish close to a dock.  Common sense and basic etiquette tell you not to crowd someone who is using a dock, even if they are just relaxing in a chair on it.  However, if the dock is unoccupied, there should be no issue with someone fishing close to it, needs have nothing to do with it.

 

Mark Zona had a funny skit utilizing Greg Hackney about this subject.  Good manners & a pleasant disposition will work with the 99% of the population who doesn't consider gasoline to be a cologne.

I'm not saying the guy was in the right in any way whatsoever. But there are illegitimate reasons to get very near other people's docks too. The guy should have done what i used to do and watch the fisherman. Let them know you're there and speak respectfully. Ask how it's going or if they ever catch anything from your dock. Being belligerent just makes them dig their heels in. I always wanted to learn something too. If he wanted them to leave he could have just made noise on his dock.

 

In SC people can actually walk on your dock and there's no legal right to tell them to get off. There are docks I used to get out on to jig for crappie if no one was home. But people being people will often do whatever they can get away with when no one's looking.

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Chuck Popeeye Moser reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 1:18 AM, D3FT said:

Ok, pouring gas on someone is bad, but why (legal or not) do you need to fish so close to a persons property that they can pour gas on you from a hand held gas can?  

 

really!.  fishing under docks is part of the game. SOB thriws or pours gas on me, get 1 warning.  Next throw, dead thrower.

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LonnieP reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 1:18 AM, D3FT said:

Ok, pouring gas on someone is bad, but why (legal or not) do you need to fish so close to a persons property that they can pour gas on you from a hand held gas can?  

They were fishing on public property, even if they were close to the dock. Totally legal. 

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Todd2 reply : 

This dude is crazy and this is not a defense but I stay away from docks if there are people there or if they have their boat in the slip. I see too many fisherman bouncing their jig off boats..not cool. You have a right to the water, not to damage someone's stuff.

 

 

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D3FT reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 2:56 AM, LonnieP said:

They were fishing on public property, even if they were close to the dock. Totally legal. 

100% agree, but why put yourself in old coot with gas can range. I'm not against fishing docks, just trying to understand the reason for being so close, unless you wanted a confrontation.

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Tennessee Boy reply : 

Some people just get crazy when they don't get enough fiber in their diet.

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OCdockskipper reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 4:21 AM, D3FT said:

...I'm not against fishing docks, just trying to understand the reason for being so close, unless you wanted a confrontation.

Depending on the dock and the surrounding cover & shoreline, there are a myriad of reasons to be close to a dock.  All of them have to do with attempting to get a lure within striking range of the bass.

 

For example, docks are the primary cover in my lake.  There are a few that are close together (less than 6 feet apart) and have boats docked in the front of them, so the only access is from the sides.  Trying to thread the needle with a bait from 30 feet away will often result in hitting the dock or something else.  Rather than being a jerk & damaging someones property, I will instead squeeze between the docks with my Pond Prowler and make the desired cast with no issues, ONLY if there is no one on either dock.  If there are people present, I have asked if it is OK for me to momentarily slip between the docks to make a cast.  Most folks say yes and are interested in seeing what you are doing.  They find the idea of skipping a bait as awesome and they are genuinely thrilled if you catch a bass in front of them (especially when you release it right there and they know they could do the same thing one day).  

 

I have had 2 women ask me to not fish near their boats or docks and in conversing with them, I find out that someone had damaged their boats or left a snagged lure on it.  I let them know that is completely unacceptable and that I will keep an eye out for anyone that is doing that sort of thing.  What they wanted really had nothing to do with me, but rather with some other inconsiderate jerk who doesn't respect others property.  Taking a few moments to hear the other persons side & story and then align yourself with them works wonders.  Those woman never came close to throwing gasoline on me  and now wave at me from their homes if I am near their dock.

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D3FT reply : 

Great points OCdockskipper.  I just hate to see confrontations like this story. Don't let it get this far.

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haggard reply : 

If someone's on the property (on the dock or not), I just wave and move to the next one. There are plenty docks on the lake. If I really want to fish it I'd simply ask them if they mind if I cast around their dock.

 

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Rahlow reply : 

Had a guy take issue with me fishing in front of his dock, he never said a word, just disappeared around to the opposite side of his house and started throwing rocks at me OVER his house,  This was on a private lake I had permission to fish as a member of the HOA, when I finished for the day, returned to my truck, it was spray painted down the side KEEP OUT. 

This turned into a major deal, This was 30 years ago when I didn’t give a d**n. Let’s just say he regrets his actions to this very day.

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fissure_man reply : 

  On 6/14/2018 at 7:41 AM, NHBull said:

If a man on a dock pours gas on me, that puts him at 3-4 meters........I wouldn’t miss!

  On 6/14/2018 at 10:12 PM, Glaucus said:

Wouldn't be hard to justify shooting the jerk at all. 

These comments are more disturbing than an old guy splashing gas around.  Kill him? Really?

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NHBull reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 8:09 AM, fissure_man said:

These comments are more disturbing than an old guy splashing gas around.  Kill him? Really?

Talk to me after you’ve had someone try to kill you......you never look at things the same!

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YaknBassn reply : 

I had an older fella blow up on me for fishing too close to his dock.  I simply apologized, told him I meant no harm, and would move on.  As I moved away, he got my attention and apologized to me for acting the way he did.  Come to find out, he found a jig stuck in one of his boat seats with a sizeable tear.  

 

Maybe the property owner was being completely unreasonable, but I figure the fishermen didn't help the situation.  If someone causes a stink, it's easier to just move on.  There's plenty of water to fish.  

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Glaucus reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 8:09 AM, fissure_man said:

These comments are more disturbing than an old guy splashing gas around.  Kill him? Really?

You know how many people are too late to retaliate before they are killed themselves because they didn't want to react? Gasoline can be deadly and painful. Who knows what the next move would have been. 

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Armtx77 reply : 

We have some odd ball water laws amd who owns said watet down here. There are waterways, that have been fenced off by their owners.

 

I have bared witness to landowners, running people off of waterways, that they claimed to own and moat times, did in fact own.

 

Im talking about stuff, that requires a boat to get to.

 

Crazy

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fissure_man reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 9:02 AM, Glaucus said:

You know how many people are too late to retaliate before they are killed themselves because they didn't want to react?

And how many are killed after hotheads whip out their guns and escalate situations that have obvious, peaceful solutions?

 

These guys should have left before this crazed old guy even got to the point of throwing gas. I get that they're fishing legally, but does that warrant turning it into a gun fight? Call the cops and let them talk to him. Somebody that's concerned with preserving their own safety would have left before it got ugly.  A fish ain't worth the confrontation, let alone murdering the guy.

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NHBull reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 10:53 AM, fissure_man said:

And how many are killed after hotheads whip out their guns and escalate situations that have obvious, peaceful solutions?

 

These guys should have left before this crazed old guy even got to the point of throwing gas. I get that they're fishing legally, but does that warrant turning it into a gun fight? Call the cops and let them talk to him. Somebody that's concerned with preserving their own safety would have left before it got ugly.  A fish ain't worth the confrontation, let alone murdering the guy.

The trouble with this stuff on forums is that we all read the same news or article and bring our own assumptions and experience to the discussion. Truth be told we don’t know about the timing.  If someone is intent on doing you harm you usually have a couple seconds to act/react.  

Since gas made it to the boat, moving the boat, calling the police and discussing the issue ....takes more than 2 seconds, you loose.  Had the outcome been different and the anger killer, would you still think calling the police was the answer?  Again, just brining life experience to the discussion and to that End I move on.

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soflabasser reply : 

  On 6/14/2018 at 10:29 AM, OCdockskipper said:

The thing that caught my eye is that the guilty party is 64 years old.  How in the world do you live this long on this planet and still 1) Get mad at other people fishing near your dock & 2) Think it is a good idea to throw gasoline on anyone?  If a 20-something had done it, I could have understood and chalked it up to stupid youthful bravado.  But 64?!?  C'Mon man...

Pouring gasoline on somebody while they are legally fishing is unforgivable at any age! This man needs to go to jail for a very long time since he could of killed these fishermen. 

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soflabasser reply : 

  On 6/14/2018 at 8:23 PM, NYWayfarer said:

Sounds like Dementia to me.

Maybe. He could also have low testosterone which makes some old men very grumpy. Regardless what he has he doesn't have a free pass to throw gasoline on people who are legally fishing a dock. 

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the reel ess reply : 

People throw around "I'd shoot that guy" like it's all justified and no one else would be affected. Nice and clean, one less idiot in the world. When someone is killed, it affects their entire family, your entire family and you. You'd never stop thinking about the life you took even if justifiable. Not to mention, shooting someone you didn't absolutely have to in most states will get you charged with some kind of manslaughter and you'll need a good lawyer and most of your savings to stay free. You could end up taking a plea to a lesser felony and lose your gun rights. I have a concealed carry permit and I do carry often. But with that right comes a great deal of restraint. You'd better know you're in grave danger before you pull a trigger on a human being.

 

He is happy whom circumstances suit his temper; but he Is more excellent who suits his temper to any circumstance. David Hume
 

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NYWayfarer reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 7:39 PM, soflabasser said:

Maybe. He could also have low testosterone which makes some old men very grumpy. Regardless what he has he doesn't have a free pass to throw gasoline on people who are legally fishing a dock. 

No one said he has a free pass to throw gasoline on people.

 

I said he sounds like he has dementia, which means he needs treatment not a bullet.

 

As far as legally fishing a dock. Sure it's legal and we have a lot of respectful anglers on this forum. But for every respectful angler here there are dozens that don't give a flying fig about what they hit when they fish a dock. Those anglers give dock owners all the ammunition they need to fuel their stereotypes of us.

 

 

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fissure_man reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 6:53 PM, NHBull said:

 Since gas made it to the boat, moving the boat, calling the police and discussing the issue ....takes more than 2 seconds, you loose.  Had the outcome been different and the anger killer, would you still think calling the police was the answer? 

But that’s not what happened, nor is it what has happened in essentially 100% of all other encounters with dock owners. These confrontations happen all the time, and the point that needs to be emphasized is that they can always be defused by moving on and not escalating the situation.  In this case, how likely is it that the OP scenario developed in 2 seconds, with no opportunity to be the bigger man and move on?

 

This thread has 1000+ views and counting, probably lots of kids.  I hope folks aren’t taking seriously the view that the correct way to handle these situations is to state your rights, stand your ground, whip out your gun, and shoot first when things get ugly.  That 'macho' mindset and disregard of human life is disturbing. 

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Russ E reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 8:05 PM, the reel ess said:

People throw around "I'd shoot that guy" like it's all justified and no one else would be affected. Nice and clean, one less idiot in the world. When someone is killed, it affects their entire family, your entire family and you. You'd never stop thinking about the life you took even if justifiable. Not to mention, shooting someone you didn't absolutely have to in most states will get you charged with some kind of manslaughter and you'll need a good lawyer and most of your savings to stay free. You could end up taking a plea to a lesser felony and lose your gun rights. I have a concealed carry permit and I do carry often. But with that right comes a great deal of restraint. You'd better know you're in grave danger before you pull a trigger on a human being.

 

He is happy whom circumstances suit his temper; but he Is more excellent who suits his temper to any circumstance. David Hume
 

I agree. 

 I am a concealed carry permit holder. I also had someone try to stab me in my younger years.

For me to draw my gun, would take a life or death situation. I would always try to avoid the confrontation first.

 Talking about shooting someone on an open forum is a little scary . To say the least. 

While I do not in anyway defend this man, we do not know what happened before the incident.

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Chance_Taker4 reply : 

Although there was no confrontation I was fishing as a back seater in an event when my boater completely passed up on a couple nice docks. Out of curiosity I asked why and he said that the home owner wrapped the dock in galvanized barbed wire to cut lines. I didn't believe it so I skipped a senko under the dock and sure enough when reeling in line was cut and I lost my stuff. The boater laughed a little and told me it has been like that for years. Also said the home owner went to the county and tried to buy the section of the lake that his docks on.

 

Some people just don't understand. 

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toni63 reply : 

Reading all the responses I don't know who to be more afraid of; overly territorial dock owners or the Johnny Rambo anglers who think shooting everyone they have a problem with is the one size fits all answer to disagreements.

 

Makes me very thankful I have places to go fish that aren't heavily populated with either.

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OCdockskipper reply : 

  On 6/15/2018 at 7:27 PM, soflabasser said:

Pouring gasoline on somebody while they are legally fishing is unforgivable at any age! This man needs to go to jail for a very long time since he could of killed these fishermen. 

Agreed that it is unforgivable at any age.  My age comment was about how I expected this to be the act of a 20 year old, not someone who has decades of life experience and still chooses to throw gasoline on someone. 

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toni63 reply : 

Just a thought but if he has dementia how did he remember where he put the gas can?????

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Bass Turd reply : 

An unfortunate but very real symptom of Alzheimer is an irrational fixation that someone (in a particular specific instance) is trying to steal from you. In other words, it's not that everyone is trying to steal everything from him (overall paranoia) but that for instance those fishermen down there are trying to steal all "my fish" under my dock. It can become a fixation and  probably repeated. 

 

Watch the movie about Glenn Campbell "I'll be me." It is both beautiful and sad. It will give you a new perspective on dementia. 

 

After loosing my wife to cancer at 33 (I'm 50 now) I learned and remind myself of the phrase.... Who knows what battles that person in front of me is facing. Who knows what pain cuts him to the bone. I honestly don't remember the first three months after her passing. I'm sure I had a short fuse. All my emotions were exhausting  and overwhelming. Grief is a terrible cold wet blanket. God bless those that have to go thru it.

 

I've never been in a situation that I can't back out of and say I'm sorry. I did not mean to offend you. Even if I did nothing wrong. I say a silent prayer for the person and move on.

 

In this case we just don't know all the facts. What he did to the fishermen is indefensible and wrong on every level. Maybe the fishermen didn't even see it coming. Many docks in my part of the world are two story with a large flat deck on top with a rail that has a break in it so people can jump off the dock. He could have easily walked up there without causing alarm and slung gas from the can on them. I doubt they saw it coming but did the right thing and reported it.

 

We just don't know and will never know the whole situation.

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Mobasser reply : 

This guy needs help!! Things like this can get WAY out of control quick!! Best thing to do is move on, although I have buddies who would stomp this guy. Me? Not worth it

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scaleface reply : 

My dad had dementia and was paranoid and unpredictable . He did have enough wits   about him that one day he called and told me to come get his guns . He had a real scumbag neighbor and I imagine dad was contemplating shooting him .

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the reel ess reply : 

  On 6/17/2018 at 6:18 AM, scaleface said:

My dad had dementia and was paranoid and unpredictable . He did have enough wits   about him that one day he called and told me to come get his guns . He had a real scumbag neighbor and I imagine dad was contemplating shooting him .

I worried about that with my dad. He was displaying some rather poor decision making and he accidentally discharged his pistol through an exterior wall and into his Honda. He had several handguns at his disposal. But as it would turn out, he died suddenly from a GI bleed.

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soflabasser reply : 

Here's a article about this situation;

 

http://www.magnoliareporter.com/news_and_business/north_louisiana/article_b09dceba-6da3-11e8-9e5c-6fce4454338c.html

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Maxximus Redneckus reply : 

Unless  the guy was holding you down you cannot shoot ...court looks at many things before you have to shoot .and if you can flee who ever is trying to hurt or kill ya u wont have a chance in court...now body harm fear for your life right at ya right now no way out yup u will win in court 

So basically if u run and fall and they get on you then you can do the deed ..your right  to live will supercede any court saying otherwise

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NHBull reply : 

  On 6/17/2018 at 2:02 PM, Maxximus Redneckus said:

Unless  the guy was holding you down you cannot shoot ...court looks at many things before you have to shoot .and if you can flee who ever is trying to hurt or kill ya u wont have a chance in court...now body harm fear for your life right at ya right now no way out yup u will win in court 

So basically if u run and fall and they get on you then you can do the deed ..your right  to live will supercede any court saying otherwise

24 states disagree with this statement as they have Stand you Ground laws that are very clear.  You happen to live in a state that has a Duty to Retreat law......

 

On a side note, apologies to the OP as it looks like my initial comment derailed your thread.

 

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Maxximus Redneckus reply : 

  On 6/17/2018 at 8:16 PM, NHBull said:

24 states disagree with this statement as they have Stand you Ground laws that are very clear.  You happen to live in a state that has a Duty to Retreat law......

 

On a side note, apologies to the OP as it looks like my initial comment derailed your thread.

 

Indeed so about the retreat law thats why i stated i run and tripped ...what happens after that i cant comment ..all i know is Maryland forgot the only reason we are a state and a country for that matter is becuase farmers and fisherman didnt retreat  in 1776 ..thats a whole diff topic that cannot be posted here though.

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