Do bass eat perch? And what is predatory behavior? 2024
Turkey sandwich reply :
A while back, I recall a post asking if bass will eat perch and whether perch colored baits are effective. Also, bait size comes up pretty often. How big is "too big"? Since the Fall, I've been doing a lot of reading on this stuff, and it's been very, very helpful in my understanding of what I'm trying to trigger with a 4wt fly rod, an 8wt streamer rod, all the way to my jig and crankbait sticks. This picture popped up on my Facebook feed and it's a perfect example that dominant predatory fish, regardless of species, will take some big ass baits!
Here on the bass side, we know that bass will take some pretty large meals. The more I get into fly fishing, the more I dig guys like Kelly Galloup that regularly fish huge 5-10" streamers for brown trout. The more I see stuff like this, the more I believe that once a fish reaches predatory size (large enough to primarily feed on fish and not invertebrates), that their habits change dramatically, regardless of species. Now, I'm not suggesting that they won't still eat insects, nymphs, etc, but that their entire feeding habits change dramatically. It can effect where they hold, why they strike, when they hunt, and as they become larger, more dominant predators, their willingness to forego eating tons of small meals in exchange for larger, less frequent "feasts". Granted, local forage will always be the primary indicator of a predator's diet, but this idea leads me to believe that larger fish will, most likely, even forego standards like crayfish if given the opportunity to feed on baitfish that are easier to digest. (Totally just a theory, but not without evidence)
One of the reasons I dig the big streamer fly anglers is because most of them have been heavily influenced by watching B.A.S.S, FLW, pike, and musky anglers. Most of the flies these guys are throwing are more like 7" jerkbaits, swim jigs, and crankbaits and 12"+ jointed swimbaits than anything you'll see in A River Runs Through It. Look up Double Deceiver of Game changer patterns, if you aren't familiar. It's pretty eye opening and amazing how much they've changed the fly game by following bass anglers. It's literally changed their sport.
I also think that there's a TON that bass guys can learn from the big streamer fly anglers. For example, they tend to care a lot more about how baits present in currents than 95% of bass anglers I've ever been around. One of the big takeaways has to do with how most predators take fish. While a pike might T-bone prey, bass and trout lack the kind of teeth necessary for that to work. So, generally they position to take bait head first (other fish) and tail first if possible (crayfish). Spiny pectoral and dorsal fins can kill a fish if they go the wrong way, especially with madtoms, sculpins, sunfish, and perch. Similarly, learning how to present "drag free drifts" with high vis braid has changed the way I approach virtually all finesse fishing, and it's paid off tremendously.
Anyhow, here's Ike with a solid bass choking on what looks like close to 10" of perch... Head first.
Koz reply :
I think that you could put two treble hooks on a 4" piece of unpainted balsa wood and catch bass.
In other words, I think they strike at pretty much anything out there that they can get their mouth around.
BassWhole! reply :
Fishing is fishing. One can learn from and apply lessons learned from time on the water anywhere chasing anything. Most LMB guys are guilty of believing that bass fishing is somehow different than other fishing.
TOXIC reply :
Bass are opportunistic. Don't forget, they eat birds squirrels, snakes, turtles, baby ducks and just about anything they can get their mouth around. As for lure size.....I have a saying. Sometimes you just gotta throw them some groceries.
Boomstick reply :
bass will definitely eat small or young perch. It's less common to see them esting a full sized perch but occasionally they may try if they can fit it in their mouth.
NYWayfarer reply :
If they don't eat them they do take swipes at them for sure.
I observed a male Bass on a bed yesterday chasing away a Perch that swam by.
I tied on a firetiger colored floating crank, cast it out and swam it through the bed. On the third pass the Bass swiped at it and I landed him.
Hyrule Bass reply :
On 5/15/2018 at 6:51 PM, Koz said:I think that you could put two treble hooks on a 4" piece of unpainted balsa wood and catch bass.
In other words, I think they strike at pretty much anything out there that they can get their mouth around.
a member here proved you could catch a bass on a boot string, so yeah theyll pretty much strike at anything that moves that can fit in their mouths
WRB reply :
Bass, like most animals, can’t judge their own size or the size of anything,
prey is trial and error experience and sometimes they make mistakes.
if perch fits down the basses throat it’s food, same for whatever else they try to eat.
The key is using lures that represents something the bass are currently hunting or looking for helps to increase strike potential. Sometimes something different gets the basses attention and why so many different lures can work.
Tom
KYBassin' reply :
If it fits into their mouth, they’ll eat it. Aaron Martens won a tourney targeting an area where birds were nesting in tall grass, bass were eating the baby birds as the left the nest. So 100% they’ll eat perch.
slonezp reply :
I was perch fishing this past this past Saturday and pulled 2 bass out of the school of perch. One was a small keeper and one almost 4lbs. Bait was a grub in "bleeding Tennesee shad" which just so happened to resemble a bleeding perch.
Turkey sandwich reply :
On 5/16/2018 at 12:15 AM, WRB said:Bass, like most animals, can’t judge their own size or the size of anything,
prey is trial and error experience and sometimes they make mistakes.
if perch fits down the basses throat it’s food, same for whatever else they try to eat.
The key is using lures that represents something the bass are currently hunting or looking for helps to increase strike potential. Sometimes something different gets the basses attention and why so many different lures can work.
Tom
I've never given much thought to how self-aware fish are or how accurately they judge scale. I do think that there's a lot to this when it comes to consistently targeting big fish and presenting efficiently is pretty interesting.
How often do guys ignore presenting appropriately to wind and current, especially on lakes?
How often do anglers think about how fish take prey?
How much do guys buy into which treble hooks the fish take as an indicator of how aggressive the fish are versus how they're ACTUALLY taking the bait?
WRB reply :
Understanding the prey a predator eats is important as understanding how a predator captures it's prey. Big bass have big mouths with gripping teeth, not tearing teeth. The big mouth is like a gripper, the bass engulfs it's prey and bites down to grip it, then swallows it whole. Bass have grippers or crunchers in the back of the mouth to insure prey doesn't escape.
The prey lives close to the predator, bass are not long range swimmers, they don't have the endurance to chase down faster moving prey, short bursts of speed with the ability to turn quickly gives bass the advantage along with exceptional senses of sight, and water movement detection via the lateral line.
Tom
Turkey sandwich reply :
Agreed. But even with large mouths designed for gripping, bass still prefer taking baits in the fashion least likely to damage them. For example, taking a perch even half the size as the one pictured tail first would run the risk of damaging the fish's gills, gullet, etc. I think this idea is huge in terms of presentation is huge. I think that finesse, or slow presentations allowed to sit in the fish's direct line of vision is huge, and I think that this is one of the reasons that guys like Jeff Little are as successful as they are catching large, wary fish deadsticking and why guys like Aaron Martens became a legend crawling dropshot rigs. I also think this is one of the reasons drag free nymphing is such an effective trout tactic.
Similarly, I also think it's interesting to note how much further predators will travel for larger meals. Look at smallmouth in rivers. Smaller fish will stack very fast water in the tiniest of Eddie's because of how easily they can feed on nymphs, darters and minnows overwhelmed by the fast current, etc without having to move much at all. Larger fish, however tend to sit on the edge of this water in protected areas and will absolutely go well out of their ways to attack bigger swimbaits, jerkbaits, big spinnerbaits with large profiles, etc. even if it requires a lot more energy.
I think this also raises some questions about the orientations of their strike zones, also, that go well beyond smallmouth being better built to feed down and largemouth feeding up.
Mr. Aquarium reply :
i've had epic days where the white perch were up close to the surface feeding at dusk. the big bass, smallies and largies, would push them up out of the deep water on to a shallow flat, and HAMMER them. we smoked them that evening. in this same place ive seen bass come from the depths and smash schools of juvy yellow perch up shallow.
WRB reply :
Most bass anglers don't consider what the primary prey is the bass are targeting.
Primary prey is the abundant prey that bass can easily eat that is nearby and that changes seasonally and regionally.
During the cold water period bass don't need an abundance of prey and tend to search out whatever is available, usually bottom dwellers or deep baitfish. Pre spawn the bass matabelism increases and the urge to feed for the spawn period kicks into high gear, now the bass are looking for high protein prey like crawdads comming out of the dormate stage and larger baitfish. This is the period I prefer to target big bass.
Spawn the bass don't eat. Post spawn the bass are recovering from spawning and target easy prey that ventures very close to them. Summer is another feeding period and a smorgasbord of prey is availble from young of the year fish to terrestrial critters and nocturnal critters, lots of choices.
Fall everything goes into reverse and starts to move deeper, the opposite of pre spawn.
That covers seasonal periods.
Primary prey can be Shad spawn, trout plants, pan fish spawn, crawdad migration, Shad migration etc. every lake and river is different and it's up to each angler to figure it out.
Location is key and usually areas the concentrate prey.
Tom
Turkey sandwich reply :
@Mr. Aquarium - for sure, those can be some really fun conditions to fish. But I also think that those conditions make up the minority of feeding opportunities for most fish in most systems. I think there will be pelagic schools of largemouth in most larger systems that will spend long periods following schools and busting on herring species (shad, alewives, blueback herring, etc), and sometimes white perch, etc. And getting on an active school is great for numbers, but this strategy, for me at least, hasn't generally resulted in catching larger (18"+) versus midsized (12"-17") fish. So, it could be a few things. One possibility is that those larger pelagic bass have a more keen eye for live bait versus artificial lures. Another is that pelagic fish tend to not pack on as much weight because they're constantly on the move versus their breathren that tend to be home bodies that keep a smaller home range and rely more on opportunity and cover for ambush. I've also seen plenty of huge smallmouth (lakes) that move constantly chasing perch, but I'm curious if they're separate populations from those that simply follow structure to ambush gobies, madtom, sculpins, and crayfish. I also think that bass get forced into specific roles because of other dominant predatory fish in a system (musky, pike, walleye, larger trout/salmon, etc) dominating specific hunting grounds.
I'm kind of curious on @Dwight Hottle and @Catt 's opinions on this.
Turkey sandwich reply :
@WRB - any angler not considering primary forage species is going to waste a lot of time on the water and miss a lot of opportunities for success. I definitely think that seasonal conditions definitely play a big role in forage, but I'm also interested in the more common, less pronounced conditions that are less obvious than shad spawns, picking fry/eggs off of redds, blugill spawns, massive hatches, shad runs, etc because those aren't the conditions we fish most of the time. Not that I want to neglect them, and for sure I think that this conversation pertains to them, but I think that in most of those cases we're talking about already very active aggressive fish with very wide strike zones. These, I think, are the conditions where bass will eat d**n near anything and most good, seasoned anglers have few problems taking advantage of opportunities.
On the other hand, mimicing forage in a manner that's most efficient and within that feeding window/strike zone on a 90 degree blue bird day in August is usually a much tougher deal (though one that more anglers encounter based on when they choose to get on the water versus say an alewife kill in late fall when the air temp might just be 35-40 degrees). It's getting those fish that aren't already frenzied to bite that is way more challenging and this is where I think really making sure you're presenting efficiently within that window is key.
A-Jay reply :
On 5/17/2018 at 2:01 AM, Turkey sandwich said:@WRB - any angler not considering primary forage species is going to waste a lot of time on the water and miss a lot of opportunities for success. I definitely think that seasonal conditions definitely play a big role in forage, but I'm also interested in the more common, less pronounced conditions that are less obvious than shad spawns, picking fry/eggs off of redds, blugill spawns, massive hatches, shad runs, etc because those aren't the conditions we fish most of the time. Not that I want to neglect them, and for sure I think that this conversation pertains to them, but I think that in most of those cases we're talking about already very active aggressive fish with very wide strike zones. These, I think, are the conditions where bass will eat d**n near anything and most good, seasoned anglers have few problems taking advantage of opportunities.
On the other hand, mimicing forage in a manner that's most efficient and within that feeding window/strike zone on a 90 degree blue bird day in August is usually a much tougher deal (though one that more anglers encounter based on when they choose to get on the water versus say an alewife kill in late fall when the air temp might just be 35-40 degrees). It's getting those fish that aren't already frenzied to bite that is way more challenging and this is where I think really making sure you're presenting efficiently within that window is key.
Here's a 'less pronounce condition' ~
I fly fishing the Big Mayfly hatch here for smallies.
I'm fishing shallow (less than 3-4 feet) of super clear water; always at sunset.
I have watch both bass & walleye, turn themselves sidways, and dredge the sand with their mouths to scoop the emerging bugs right off the bottom. Blew me away.
They leave a 'smoke trail' of sand behind them as they go. It's pretty cool to see.
I have since recognized, that a ned rig is wildly effective during this event, when virtually NOTHING else is !
A-Jay
Turkey sandwich reply :
On 5/17/2018 at 2:20 AM, A-Jay said:Here's a 'less pronounce condition' ~
I fly fishing the Big Mayfly hatch here for smallies.
I'm fishing shallow (less than 3-4 feet) of super clear water; always at sunset.
I have watch both bass & walleye, turn themselves sidways, and dredge the sand with their mouths to scoop the emerging bugs right off the bottom. Blew me away.
They leave a 'smoke trail' of sand behind them as they go. It's pretty cool to see.
I have since recognized, that a ned rig is wildly effective during this event, when virtually NOTHING else is !
A-Jay
Mayfly hatches can be pretty big events on the Susquehanna's North Branch. White flies will cover everything like a giant living cloud. It's really nuts and pretty surreal. When they're THAT heavy, I don't so much try to mimic the flies as smaller fish feeding on them (poppers, floating jerkbaits, walking baits, etc). This is probably my favorite example of larger fish choosing to take larger prey efficiently because of opportunity. Tons of fish rise to sip spinners from the surface and larger predators often sit beneath. It's a really cool pattern. Next time you're out during a hatch, tie on a weightless streamer, Dahlberg Diver, or popper.
The Need rig has probably become my favorite helgramite imitation, dead drifted and swung. They're even more ridiculous on the swing during stone fly and Dobson fly hatches.
Have you ever seen them just swim with their mouths open scooping spinners off the surface? Also, super cool.
mattkenzer reply :
On 5/17/2018 at 2:20 AM, A-Jay said:Here's a 'less pronounce condition' ~
I fly fishing the Big Mayfly hatch here for smallies.
I'm fishing shallow (less than 3-4 feet) of super clear water; always at sunset.
I have watch both bass & walleye, turn themselves sidways, and dredge the sand with their mouths to scoop the emerging bugs right off the bottom. Blew me away.
They leave a 'smoke trail' of sand behind them as they go. It's pretty cool to see.
I have since recognized, that a ned rig is wildly effective during this event, when virtually NOTHING else is !
A-Jay
That is interesting ..... I have seen similar.
Also, their backs come out of the water like a dolphin.
Some luck on a hair jig but nothing to jump up and down about.
The Ned Rig you say!
Thanks.
jbmaine reply :
Bass will at times eat most anything. I believe that like trout, if a certain food is in abundance, they will be conditioned to focus on that food. Like trout fishing, at times like these you need to " match the hatch ".
I have also seen the opposite. I was in a cove ( clear water ) and watched bass swimming with perch, sunnys, minnows, you name it. All seeming to be in harmony. Tossed every perch, blue gill, looking bait I could think of, no joy. Tossed a bubble gum Senko and got bit right away. Go figure.
TOXIC reply :
On 5/17/2018 at 2:20 AM, A-Jay said:Here's a 'less pronounce condition' ~
I fly fishing the Big Mayfly hatch here for smallies.
I'm fishing shallow (less than 3-4 feet) of super clear water; always at sunset.
I have watch both bass & walleye, turn themselves sidways, and dredge the sand with their mouths to scoop the emerging bugs right off the bottom. Blew me away.
They leave a 'smoke trail' of sand behind them as they go. It's pretty cool to see.
I have since recognized, that a ned rig is wildly effective during this event, when virtually NOTHING else is !
A-Jay
Get it right...In your neck of the woods, they are called Fish Flies not the Fudgie name of Mayflies.???????? I have been on St Clair when the Fish flies are like oil slicks on the water.
Turkey sandwich reply :
I know it's slightly off topic, and kinda back on trout, but the White River seems to be a really interesting study on this. I'm sure some of you fellas have fished it. @Bluebasser86 comes to mind. It was on own for producing huge trout, so long as you were fishing live minnows. For everyone with fly or spinning gears, it developed a reputation as a typical put-and-take fishery. Once guys started fishing big jerkbaits and huge flies, it became a regular thing for guys to catch 30lb browns on artificial. Big fish waste less energy eating midges, and instead given the opportunity, will attack an oversized Smithwick, Sex Dungeon, Double Deceiver, or X-Rap. Where they set up, and sometimes how far they'll travel to take a bait is directly correlated with the size of the bait.
There are some really awesome podcasts on this that I'll link if anyone is interested.
Sam reply :
There is a guy out there by the name of Roland Martin who wrote a book, Roland Martin's 101 Bass-Catching Secrets, that lists the nine behavioral reasons why a bass will strike your bait.
Here they are, in no specific order:
Feeding
Reflex Action
Anger
Protective Instinct
Curiosity
Competition
Territorial Instinct
Killer Instinct
Ignorance
I think I catch most of my bass via the Ignorance behavior method!!!!
WRB reply :
Rainbow Trout are microscopic vision fish and selective feeders, Brown trout are closure to LMB in feeding habits, fish eating predators first everything else secondary, but abundance can trump preference.
Imo backed by years of experience the thought big adult size bass biting a solitary ambush predator is mis placed. LMB bass grow up in a school and break up as the mature into groups, the bigger they get the smaller the group size due to population density. Most bass anglers catch a decent size adult bass and move on thinking it's a loner....big mistake. Big bass often hunt in groups called wolf packs for success in capturing prey. When I catch a big bass my expectation is more are in the area and I am usually right. There is a reason big bass are using that location, abundant prey is available and the timing is right.
Tom
einscodek reply :
On 5/18/2018 at 1:54 PM, WRB said:Rainbow Trout are microscopic vision fish and selective feeders, Brown trout are closure to LMB in feeding habits, fish eating predators first everything else secondary, but abundance can trump preference.
Imo backed by years of experience the thought big adult size bass biting a solitary ambush predator is mis placed. LMB bass grow up in a school and break up as the mature into groups, the bigger they get the smaller the group size due to population density. Most bass anglers catch a decent size adult bass and move on thinking it's a loner....big mistake. Big bass often hunt in groups called wolf packs for success in capturing prey. When I catch a big bass my expectation is more are in the area and I am usually right. There is a reason big bass are using that location, abundant prey is available and the timing is right.
Tom
I think that what you said may be true of certain waterways but every body of water is a bit different as is each bass different.. some still cruise with smaller bass, some go solo in ambush, some cruise with fish their size which like you said may not be many of
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 5/17/2018 at 1:39 AM, Turkey sandwich said:@Mr. Aquarium - for sure, those can be some really fun conditions to fish. But I also think that those conditions make up the minority of feeding opportunities for most fish in most systems. I think there will be pelagic schools of largemouth in most larger systems that will spend long periods following schools and busting on herring species (shad, alewives, blueback herring, etc), and sometimes white perch, etc. And getting on an active school is great for numbers, but this strategy, for me at least, hasn't generally resulted in catching larger (18"+) versus midsized (12"-17") fish. So, it could be a few things. One possibility is that those larger pelagic bass have a more keen eye for live bait versus artificial lures. Another is that pelagic fish tend to not pack on as much weight because they're constantly on the move versus their breathren that tend to be home bodies that keep a smaller home range and rely more on opportunity and cover for ambush. I've also seen plenty of huge smallmouth (lakes) that move constantly chasing perch, but I'm curious if they're separate populations from those that simply follow structure to ambush gobies, madtom, sculpins, and crayfish. I also think that bass get forced into specific roles because of other dominant predatory fish in a system (musky, pike, walleye, larger trout/salmon, etc) dominating specific hunting grounds.
I'm kind of curious on @Dwight Hottle and @Catt 's opinions on this.
My experience is that smallmouth definitely will eat yellow perch & do. Before the arrival of gobies in the great lake system perch were more heavily predated by smallies. Smallies & walleye are often mixed in with perch schools & caught accidentally by perch fisherman. Some of my most effective baits are perch coloration.
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