I know some people think that using live bait is "cheating". Opinions on this? What are advantages of live? Of artificial? Which ones do you use & why? Which one do you think catches more fish?
I don't think live bait is cheating, but I much prefer the challenge of catching bass on artificial baits. I haven't used live bait in years, except when pan-fish fishing. Live bait almost always out fishes artificials.
Chucking out a worm/minnow etc on a bobber is what most people think of when they are throwing live bait. This is true for many but the nuances of fishing live bait are actually pretty complicated. To be a great live bait fisherman you still need to find the fish and then present your bait in a way that will let it get eaten. In the saltwater world live bait is the norm and not frowned upon but for some reason in freshwater it is, which i don't understand.
All that being said, I will occasionally throw live bait out or live line a sunny that i caught just to see what happens. I will also use it in the winter time to give me a few more things to look at while i let my jerkbait/jig shakey head sit for a minute between twitches. Funny thing is that this winter my artificials outperformed the live bait.
On 7/6/2016 at 11:39 PM, Kevin Zheng said:I know some people think that using live bait is "cheating". Opinions on this? What are advantages of live? Of artificial? Which ones do you use & why? Which one do you think catches more fish?
I think live catches more fish, but I fish
artificial more.
Though when fishing is tough, live is the
way to go, and for me that is normally
nightcrawlers.
There's nothing cheating about using live
unless it is not allowed in a particular water
or tournament.
I used to live in western NY, and lived near
the Oatka river which banned live bait
fishing - at least in the sections I lived near.
I've been fishing for a couple of years now and I can say that not once have I used live bait. I don't have a problem with it, I just prefer the challenge of using artificial. To each their own I suppose.
I grew up fishing live bait, and have no problem with it. I do fish with artificials almost exclusively now, except when I'm targeting species other than bass. This is for a few reasons -- artificials are less messy, you don't have to keep them as fresh, fish don't swallow the hook quite as often, and it's a little easier to target a specific species like bass (almost anything will try to eat a minnow or nightcrawler, almost all the time). I think these advantages are all minor, but they add up, and the question is, are they worth the much greater cost. Live bait is also usually more effective at getting fish to bite. On the other hand, artificials can be a lot more fun, especially topwater lures.
Bass angler's negative opinions on live bait are largely a result of influences from tournament angling, where live bait is not permitted, and the heavily-bloated tackle industry, which has a financial interest in making sure you buy 20 of their lures for your next trip instead of one pack of hooks, a bobber, some split shots, and a tub of nightcrawlers.
Artificial to me is more "sportsmanlike" in that the angler is fishing with something that isn't food, and is responsible for imparting any movement/action on the lure to trigger a strike. With live bait, the bait is moving/swimming on it's own, where the angler doesn't need to do anything except hold the rod, or in some cases just let the rod sit in a holder until a fish bites. Put on a plastic hardbait or softbait, cast it out in the water, stick the rod in a rod holder and see how many bites you get. It will probably be zero, which is why I see live bait as an easier method than artificial bait.
On 7/7/2016 at 1:59 AM, blckshirt98 said:Artificial to me is more "sportsmanlike" in that the angler is fishing with something that isn't food, and is responsible for imparting any movement/action on the lure to trigger a strike. With live bait, the bait is moving/swimming on it's own, where the angler doesn't need to do anything except hold the rod, or in some cases just let the rod sit in a holder until a fish bites. Put on a plastic hardbait or softbait, cast it out in the water, stick the rod in a rod holder and see how many bites you get. It will probably be zero, which is why I see live bait as an easier method than artificial bait.
Interesting theory.
On 7/7/2016 at 1:59 AM, blckshirt98 said:Artificial to me is more "sportsmanlike" in that the angler is fishing with something that isn't food, and is responsible for imparting any movement/action on the lure to trigger a strike. With live bait, the bait is moving/swimming on it's own, where the angler doesn't need to do anything except hold the rod, or in some cases just let the rod sit in a holder until a fish bites. Put on a plastic hardbait or softbait, cast it out in the water, stick the rod in a rod holder and see how many bites you get. It will probably be zero, which is why I see live bait as an easier method than artificial bait.
Ok, say next year Strike King or Berkley creates the "LiveMinnow" -- an artificial minnow bait that wiggles and swims around under a bobber just like a real live shiner. Looks just like a live one, smells just like one, acts just like one. Only not actually alive, and reusable.
Unsportsmanlike, right?
If that lure did all of that, yeah, because that's basically a live shiner. The main point of what i was saying is that the fisherman should be responsible for triggering the strike. If you can toss out a bait or anything for that matter and stick it in a rod holder and trigger a strike, that's not fishing in the "sporting" sense. Why not just hook a fish trap to a broomstick rod and cast that out and let it sit there for an hour then.
On 7/7/2016 at 2:14 AM, blckshirt98 said:If that lure did all of that, yeah, because that's basically a live shiner. The main point of what i was saying is that the fisherman should be responsible for triggering the strike. If you can toss out a bait or anything for that matter and stick it in a rod holder and trigger a strike, that's not fishing in the "sporting" sense. Why not just hook a fish trap to a broomstick rod and cast that out and let it sit there for an hour then.
Gotcha. LiveMinnow is out. Good to know. How about:
1. deadsticking a worm: Cast, let fall, let sit. The fish strikes while it's sitting there after a moment.
2. A jig that gets struck immediately on the fall. The fish attacks before the angler gets a chance to move it at all.
3. A popper or spook, the bass strikes after it hits the water, while the angler is waiting for the ripples to die, again, before moving it.
Were these three fish caught in a sportsmanlike way?
With all 3 of your examples you're relying on the fish to bite immediately on a pause by the fisherman between imparting action on the lure. With the senko if it doesn't get hit on the fall the fisherman needs to manipulate the bait again to trigger a strike. With the jig if it doesn't get hit on the fall and it hits the bottom the fisherman needs to manipulate the bait to trigger a strike. With the popper or spook if it doesn't get hit on the pause the fisherman needs to manipulate the bait again to trigger a strike. With live bait if it doesn't get hit on the initial fall or pause the fisherman doesn't have to do anything to trigger another strike. He can take a nap for an hour and it can still trigger a strike.
There are times when Live bait catches more fish and there are times it does not . I prefer not to fool with keeping bait alive . If live bait is put where a bass isnt then bass wont be caught . Artificial s are faster and cover unproductive water quicker . How would one cover an expansive flat for example , if one is waiting ona fish to bite minnow .
Have you ever tried dead sticking a lure? No action it just sits there drifting on top, suspended or laying on the bottom and bass will eat it. Lures look alive to a fish if they appear alive. The odd truth is bass rarely eat dead bait, crawdads, minnows, frogs etc that were alive and died unless they are rigged to have some movement by the angler.
This debate rages on over several decades on how sporting live bait fishing is. Bass tournaments are about the only venue that prohibits live bait use, however there are a few that do allow live bait.
I draw the line using live bait during any phase of the spawn because our small trophy bass lakes get too much fishing pressure during this time period, however it's a legal practice that is wide spread. If it's legal live bait fishing for bass doesn't bother me one way or the other, there was a time when it did based on my own success using it.
Tom
I don't use live bait typically for bass because I can't make it do what I want. However, in the winter on a local lake I LOVE freelining live blueback herring for largemouth and stripers from my kayak. A lot of effort goes into catching the herring and keeping them alive but it is worth it.
I will throw a swimbait in the early morning and late evening but once the sun gets up and the bass can see pretty well, they won't touch it. Free line a herring anywhere near them and you'll crush them. It puts into perspective how many fish you are truly dealing with in one area and I have learned a lot about how they set up on structure and current breaks by doing it. I have seen largemouth schooling on the surface in 48 degree water in January. That tells you how much they like those darn herring.
Catching fish is catching fish. The way you do it is up to you. There is no wrong or right. I prefer using artificials myself. When I started salt water fishing all I used was live or cut bait. Now I use only lures whether it's fishing for specks n reds, snapper and grouper or yellow fin tunas. I have always used lures for bass fishing though. I enjoy the challenge and I'll stick to it even if everyone is getting bit on live/cut bait. Now, white perch is a different story.......!
If people want to use live bait let them,as long as it's legal in their area.If using live bait was so easy everyone would have +10 pounders as their personal best(in areas where bass get this big).Live bait fishing is an art in itself and takes years to learn well and there are many times lures outfish livebait, at least in the spots I fish. I have caught more big bass and more numbers of bass on artificials than I have on livebait.
With that said, I have been strictly fishing artificial lures for largemouth bass for almost a year now.I do this because I find it easier to fish with lures. I don't have to worry about catching bait,keeping it alive,and playing the stationary waiting game that one has to do with live bait.I enjoy walking long distances when bass fishing, and it's easier to fish this way with lures.
On 7/6/2016 at 11:57 PM, flyfisher said:Chucking out a worm/minnow etc on a bobber is what most people think of when they are throwing live bait. This is true for many but the nuances of fishing live bait are actually pretty complicated. To be a great live bait fisherman you still need to find the fish and then present your bait in a way that will let it get eaten. In the saltwater world live bait is the norm and not frowned upon but for some reason in freshwater it is, which i don't understand.
All that being said, I will occasionally throw live bait out or live line a sunny that i caught just to see what happens. I will also use it in the winter time to give me a few more things to look at while i let my jerkbait/jig shakey head sit for a minute between twitches. Funny thing is that this winter my artificials outperformed the live bait.
Catch anything with the sunfish you throw back out? Ever tried throwing bluegill out?
On 7/6/2016 at 11:57 PM, Darren. said:I think live catches more fish, but I fish
artificial more.Though when fishing is tough, live is the
way to go, and for me that is normally
nightcrawlers.There's nothing cheating about using live
unless it is not allowed in a particular water
or tournament.I used to live in western NY, and lived near
the Oatka river which banned live bait
fishing - at least in the sections I lived near.
Nice, night crawlers keep getting me small fish though! ? Want to try crawfish or something of that sort..
On 7/7/2016 at 12:36 AM, Nathan Burton said:I've been fishing for a couple of years now and I can say that not once have I used live bait. I don't have a problem with it, I just prefer the challenge of using artificial. To each their own I suppose.
"Challenge" do you find it easier using live bait?
On 7/7/2016 at 9:37 AM, Kevin Zheng said:Catch anything with the sunfish you throw back out? Ever tried throwing bluegill out?
Nice, night crawlers keep getting me small fish though! ? Want to try crawfish or something of that sort..
"Challenge" do you find it easier using live bait?
Absolutely. I would have to say it is much easier to catch fish using live bait. People who fish near me using live bait usually catch more fish with fraction of the effort.
On 7/7/2016 at 1:59 AM, blckshirt98 said:Artificial to me is more "sportsmanlike" in that the angler is fishing with something that isn't food, and is responsible for imparting any movement/action on the lure to trigger a strike. With live bait, the bait is moving/swimming on it's own, where the angler doesn't need to do anything except hold the rod, or in some cases just let the rod sit in a holder until a fish bites. Put on a plastic hardbait or softbait, cast it out in the water, stick the rod in a rod holder and see how many bites you get. It will probably be zero, which is why I see live bait as an easier method than artificial bait.
What kind of live bait are you implying here? I typically hook my worms all the way through the hook, doubt they could move. ? I guess that's my mistake.
I fish live bait, go ahead and judge. Personal favorite is free lining gizzard shad during the winter months. I'm mainly targeting hybrids, but I don't get disappointed when a nice largemouth latches on.
I can catch more fish on lures most day because I can cover more water and fish places live bait can't go. Some days, they just aren't eating anything but the real thing though. Is it more sporting? I don't think so. Fish I catch on live bait are usually in an inactive to neutral mood. I've watched them instead a bait for 10 minutes or more in clear, cold water, and all that just to swim off without biting.
I find live bait always outperforms artificials, I go out in a Jon boat and troll love minnows in my lake and by the end of the day I will have a solid 30 fish caught (within a span of about 5 hours). After all, lures are meant to mimic real fish.
I fish for fun, and some of my fun comes from finding the right presentation and "tricking" the fish into biting a lure, instead of actual food. Ice fishing I use pretty much only live bait though.
I've always enjoyed using lures instead of live bait when fishing for bass for 2 reasons. First, it is a more active approach (I get bored real quickly) and second, I enjoy making accurate casts to targets. I don't have any fun lobbing live bait in the vicinity of a target, which is probably why I rarely fish a Carolina rig and only use a dropshot when other plastic presentations aren't working. When I make an accurate cast, skip or pitch exactly to a tough to reach target and am rewarded with a strike, it is as if all is right in the world.
Growing up we only used live bait. Mostly shiners and nightcrawlers either on the bottom or under a bobber. Artificial baits are a lot less hassle. You don't need to keep them cool in the heat of the summer, and worry about them dying on you.
Another key advantage of artificials over live bait is this: you can always have it on hand.
The more you fish it, the better you get at it, and then the more you want to use it.
Depending on your location, how you fish, etc., maybe getting ahold of live bait is no big deal. For me, it's a huge deal since there are no real bait shops close by, and even then picking up worms at the local Shell station eats up 20-30 min of critical fishing time.
Plus, if you are the type of angler that fishes on short notice (ie. a quick pull over on the way home and pop open the trunk to get your rod out) -- you really appreciate having artificals at hand.
As Wayne Gretzky is famous for saying "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - same thing with fishing. 30 minutes spent getting bait is 30 minutes not fishing.
On 7/6/2016 at 11:57 PM, Darren. said:I think live catches more fish, but I fish
artificial more.Though when fishing is tough, live is the
way to go, and for me that is normally
nightcrawlers.There's nothing cheating about using live
unless it is not allowed in a particular water
or tournament.I used to live in western NY, and lived near
the Oatka river which banned live bait
fishing - at least in the sections I lived near.
Exactly!
I think that in the totality of the fishing I do for bass, artificials are more effective than live bait. Same for pike. Walleyes and panfish, probably a tossup. The advantages of artificials are better presentation, controllable movement, tremendous variety of options to better match the mood of the fish, cleaner boat without all that black nightcrawler crap all over the place, no problems keeping the bait alive, nothing to dispose of or keep in the fridge, easy to cover a lot of water to find fish, more interesting than watching a bobber (although that can be fun, too), lures are always available, any time, any place.
The last time I tried bait we were fishing for smallmouths and found that we could get lots of crawfish at the boat launch at night. We got plenty and were set to kill the smallies the next day. Total shutout. Went to tubes and did well.
We catch a lot of bass on the fall, before imparting any action. It is not unusual at all. Jigs, tubes, super flukes, senkos, even surface lures like chug bugs.
On 7/8/2016 at 11:11 AM, MickD said:I think that in the totality of the fishing I do for bass, artificials are more effective than live bait. Same for pike. Walleyes and panfish, probably a tossup. The advantages of artificials are better presentation, controllable movement, tremendous variety of options to better match the mood of the fish, cleaner boat without all that black nightcrawler crap all over the place, no problems keeping the bait alive, nothing to dispose of or keep in the fridge, easy to cover a lot of water to find fish, more interesting than watching a bobber (although that can be fun, too), lures are always available, any time, any place.
The last time I tried bait we were fishing for smallmouths and found that we could get lots of crawfish at the boat launch at night. We got plenty and were set to kill the smallies the next day. Total shutout. Went to tubes and did well.
We catch a lot of bass on the fall, before imparting any action. It is not unusual at all. Jigs, tubes, super flukes, senkos, even surface lures like chug bugs.
I agree with you that artificial lures are much more effective in terms of numbers of bass caught in a day than using live bait.I have had multiple trips where I have caught +100 bass on artificials, but cannot recall a day that I passed that many on live bait. It's a hassle collecting enough bait to catch that many bass,but it's easier to catch that amount of bass with a couple packs of soft plastics and a handful of hard plastic lures.
On 7/7/2016 at 2:24 AM, MIbassyaker said:Gotcha. LiveMinnow is out. Good to know. How about:
1. deadsticking a worm: Cast, let fall, let sit. The fish strikes while it's sitting there after a moment.
2. A jig that gets struck immediately on the fall. The fish attacks before the angler gets a chance to move it at all.
3. A popper or spook, the bass strikes after it hits the water, while the angler is waiting for the ripples to die, again, before moving it.
Were these three fish caught in a sportsmanlike way?
Lol thats funny, just stop
I throw artificials simply because I have control issues, lol. Worms and 'dads never do what I want them to.
On 7/7/2016 at 2:24 AM, MIbassyaker said:Gotcha. LiveMinnow is out. Good to know. How about:
1. deadsticking a worm: Cast, let fall, let sit. The fish strikes while it's sitting there after a moment.
2. A jig that gets struck immediately on the fall. The fish attacks before the angler gets a chance to move it at all.
3. A popper or spook, the bass strikes after it hits the water, while the angler is waiting for the ripples to die, again, before moving it.
Were these three fish caught in a sportsmanlike way?
These are good debate examples!
Yes. Just as with live bait, location is the number one consideration. Where you put your bait determines whether you get bit. It's a basic tenant of fishing. You can't catch fish where there are none. Also, in the case of the jig (#2), you chose the weight, profile, trailer, color, etc. to exhibit a certain "fall". BTW, eliciting a strike is one thing, you still have to get it to the boat.
Very divisive subject
Targeting bass specifically with live bait is not a simple task.
Ya aint gonna just walk up to a body of water & cast
One still has to consider weather condition, water conditions, cover, & structure!
In my opinion and experience, I have had better luck with artificial vs live bait. Just last week I tried fishing leeches and crawlers on a jig around reeds and only picked up 1 largemouth bass. There was no bobber or slipfloat involved. This has been a consistent theme for me over the years. We always grab livebait for walleyes and on the last day or two of a trip I use the leftovers on bass. If I were targeting smallies the leeches may come into play a lot more though.
So for me I have zero issue with it, but don't do it because it just doesn't work all that well for me.
I think using Manns Jelly worms is cheating .
On 7/9/2016 at 2:22 AM, scaleface said:I think using Manns Jelly worms is cheating .
Then I'm a cheater
On 7/9/2016 at 2:22 AM, scaleface said:I think using Manns Jelly worms is cheating .
For me it depends on the year lol. This year the red eye shad is definitely cheating, I have caught 6 different species of fish on it, similar to what happens when you toss out a worm, you never know what is on the other end of the line:)
I like hooking live bait to lures
Artificial bait is fishing... live bait is waiting....
"...and that's all I have to say about that..."
On 7/9/2016 at 2:33 AM, riverbasser said:Then I'm a cheater
^^^ same here
On 7/9/2016 at 2:22 AM, scaleface said:I think using Manns Jelly worms is cheating .
I've been cheating for a long long time
no such thing as cheating... just fishing, or waiting....
You could look at it another way - who profits when you buy artificial lures? Some company/business makes money from you. What is their main competitor in the fishing lure world? Free worms! If you have a yard or access to a yard/field/grass/etc..., you can find free night-crawlers to use. Real worms are probably the worlds greatest fish catcher.
I've read on these forums reasons not to use real bait. One is that it increases the chance of throat hooking. I'm starting to wonder if that is true or an old wives tail pushed by the big lure companies. Another reason is that it's not "sporting" and yet bass tournaments are held across the country where the competitors take those poor bass and stick them in box and let them sit there all day, drag them out and weighed, then dumped back in at a random spot. How is that sporting?
I love my plastic worms and Yum-Dingers, but I pretty much realize all those lures pale in comparison to the real live stuff. Two famous bass books, In Pursuit of Giant Bass and Big Bass Magic, both push live bait along with artificial lures. In fact, I think Doug Hannon and Bill Murphy lists live bait above lures. If I recall correctly, Hannon said if you are fishing in the day time, use live bait. Only use lures when its darker out so it will be easier to trick the bass into biting. Murphy puts live bait ontop with plastic worms a close second and everything else (jigs/spinnerbaits/crankbaits) far behind.
On 7/9/2016 at 5:30 AM, hoosierbass07 said:I've read on these forums reasons not to use real bait. One is that it increases the chance of throat hooking. I'm starting to wonder if that is true or an old wives tail pushed by the big lure companies.
Now I get to anger both sides of the arguement. I don't feel that there is any reason to allow a bass or any fish to munch on a bait before you set the hook. All that does is increase the risk for gut hooking a fish! This goes live bait and dead sticking baits or fishing baits like the Ned on slack line. If you set the hook at first tap and miss you have the wrong bait or presentation. I have had bass post a second cold front in 3 days just about swallow a RES while it was moving, right lure right time. It's not the lure gut hooking fish. It's generally has the lure is fished IMO.
Thats me on my soapbox, stepping down now
So to answer your question I'm on the old wives tail side of the arguement.
I used nit crawlers and minnows when I was just putzing around at fishing. Now I bass fish exclusively and use artificial. Why? Because it's what I do. You use live bait? Great...have fun. Couldn't care less either way
On 7/9/2016 at 7:35 AM, cgolf said:Now I get to anger both sides of the arguement. I don't feel that there is any reason to allow a bass or any fish to munch on a bait before you set the hook. All that does is increase the risk for gut hooking a fish! This goes live bait and dead sticking baits or fishing baits like the Ned on slack line. If you set the hook at first tap and miss you have the wrong bait or presentation. I have had bass post a second cold front in 3 days just about swallow a RES while it was moving, right lure right time. It's not the lure gut hooking fish. It's generally has the lure is fished IMO.
Thats me on my soapbox, stepping down now
So to answer your question I'm on the old wives tail side of the arguement.
I've fished live bait for about 4years now and have never gut hooked a fish after switching to circle hooks
Well, maybe I spoke too soon. lol. Or I have foot in mouth disease. I was actually thinking about this thread when I went fishing tonight at a strip pit in a canoe. I wasn't catching anything (soft swim bait and soft plastic Texas rig lizard) then I put on my favorite lure of all time - five inch Yum-Dinger, and ended up in a big battle with a six pound bass, one of my biggest I've ever caught and my biggest bass I've ever caught during the summer.
So would I have caught that bass using a night-crawler? Actually, I don't think so. I think that bass probably wanted something larger like a Yum-Dinger. But, would I have caught that bass on a live lizard? Maybe, might catch more big bass. I don't know. I still believe live bait is superior. But also, live bait is messy. When I dig up worms I get dirt under my fingernails that stays there for a few days. I don't really like that.
I should add, the only live bait I've used was/is night crawlers and even then I only use them .001% of the time. 99.99% of the time I'm using a soft plastic Texas rig like the Yum-Dinger.
I'm not Sure why everyone gets so upset over fishing techniques. My PB came on a top water popper. But I have caught numerous beauties fishing with live bluegill. I would hook them through the lip, and out the nostril. Usually the bluegill is very lively and ends up running into the weeds and getting buried there. So I would have to check it periodically. If a big bass is around , she cannot resist. Especially if it is in a pond and this is her main forage. I've caught bass when the bluegill was practically dead. Just reeling it In . Make sure the bluegill is of appropriate size. If you choose to use a 4 to 5 inch bluegill you're only targeting bass about 5 pounds and up. People say it's not fun using live bait, but it's surely fun catching the big bass. And taking pictures with your friends or kids. Not to mention occasionally catching some nice catfish.
I enjoy all types of fishing - live bait, artificials, fly fishing, you name it. The only thing I don't do is spearing/bow fishing or snagging. But if it's legal and sustainable, and you're fishing for food, I can respect those methods.
The real question is, do you catch your own bait?
for me, bass fishing is all about the fun of using and catching fish with artificial lures. using live bait is a totally different sport to me. im going to need beer and I will be targeting bigger species than freshwater bass. also fun but a different "game".
is natural bait that was once alive (cutbait, squid etc) considered live bait?
I have nothing against using live bait. I know my Dad preaches the use of live bait saying it will out-catch artificial lures any day but I myself haven't proven that statement true. I suppose each have their pros/cons but I for one don't have a lot of containment space to keep live bait alive (only 1 live well on the boat and prefer to use that for the catch, not the bait) and for me carrying a tackle bag of lures is a lot more feasible. Another thing is with live bait you can't really control where they go (if you're using shiners etc.)...I mean you can target the fish all you but your live bait may have other ideas of where it wants to swim so keeping it in the strike zone is more of a challenge. I also am not a fan of dead-sticking a rod and waiting for something to bite (reason I hate the Carolina rig fishing for trout)...to me this isn't fishing, it's waiting or lazy fishing. I suppose it has it's place like if your on a picnic by the lake with the family and while you're eating you want to throw a line in and not have to worry about it unless a rod starts bending but other than that I personally much prefer to use other methods/techniques where I'm always casting and retrieving...I'm actually constantly doing SOMETHING and that to me is real fishing which is one of the reasons I much prefer bass fishing over trout fishing, it takes more skill and thought which makes catching something that much more rewarding!!!