New Boat Company announment Friday 2024
Megastink reply :
Just read on the Bass Blaster that tomorrow (Friday), there will be a new boat company making themselves known. Word is several former Ranger executives and Forest Wood’s grandson are heading it up. With JM buying up almost all the big brands, the bass boat industry needs some new blood in the form of brands. Look at what Phoenix has done, Falcon is on the rise, and I heard Cobra is trying to make a comeback with the old Champion 210 Hull.
Let us pray that they offer at least one value-minded option. The price of boats is absolutely ridiculous.
slonezp reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 6:38 AM, Megastink said:Let us pray that they offer at least one value-minded option. The price of boats is absolutely ridiculous.
Heard the rumors as well. The big V6 motors aren't cheap and are 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the boats. I think if the other manufacturers could do a moderately equipped, quality built glass 18ft boat with a 150 for under the $30k they would give Nitro a run for the money. Is it feasible? Not sure. No other company has the buying power that Johnny has to keep costs low. Johnny has already implemented his power. He's installing Tracker parts in Ranger tins (proof on another forum)
As far as the term value, it has different meanings to different people. Value might mean "the least expensive" it might mean "the best bang for the buck" and it might mean "pay more up front for quality and less on the back end for repairs" Our interpretations of the word should be relative to the purchase at hand. A guy who buys a $25k boat shouldn't expect the same quality and features that a $60k boat has Just like a guy who buys a Chevy shouldn't expect the same quality and features of a Lambo. Therein lies the problem because the fishing industry has done an incredible job marketing to our desires to become better fishermen. Therein lies the "excessive" costs. A fishing boat should be viewed at as a tool or a platform to catch fish rather than a tool to improve ones deficiencies. Some tools are better platforms than others and the platforms are all relative to the way we fish and the waters we fish. Fishing out of a $90k Ranger doesn't make us a better fishermen than a $25k Z17, just as driving a $250k Lambo doesn't make us a better driver than a $25 Chevy
Fishing Rhino reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 8:23 AM, slonezp said:Heard the rumors as well. The big V6 motors aren't cheap and are 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the boats. I think if the other manufacturers could do a moderately equipped, quality built glass 18ft boat with a 150 for under the $30k they would give Nitro a run for the money. Is it feasible? Not sure. No other company has the buying power that Johnny has to keep costs low. Johnny has already implemented his power. He's installing Tracker parts in Ranger tins (proof on another forum)
As far as the term value, it has different meanings to different people. Value might mean "the least expensive" it might mean "the best bang for the buck" and it might mean "pay more up front for quality and less on the back end for repairs" Our interpretations of the word should be relative to the purchase at hand. A guy who buys a $25k boat shouldn't expect the same quality and features that a $60k boat has Just like a guy who buys a Chevy shouldn't expect the same quality and features of a Lambo. Therein lies the problem because the fishing industry has done an incredible job marketing to our desires to become better fishermen. Therein lies the "excessive" costs. A fishing boat should be viewed at as a tool or a platform to catch fish rather than a tool to improve ones deficiencies. Some tools are better platforms than others and the platforms are all relative to the way we fish and the waters we fish. Fishing out of a $90k Ranger doesn't make us a better fishermen than a $25k Z17, just as driving a $250k Lambo doesn't make us a better driver than a $25 Chevy
I'm just guessing here, but I'd say that most of the repairs and maintenance costs are for the engine, not the boat. If that's the case, Rangers will have the same problems as Nitros when it comes to the big expenses. I've had two Nitros in the past 8 years and not a problem with either regarding the hull and its hardware, wiring, etc.
The expenses have been winterizing, and an oil pump that had to be replaced. Fortunately the motor was still under warranty or it would have cost me north of 400 dollars to replace it.
No doubt Ranger is a nicer and better boat, but when all is said and done, the motor will eat up the biggest portion of repair or maintenance dollars whether it's on a Nitro or a Ranger.
flyfisher reply :
Kind of surprised there isn't a no compete clause to prevent this from happening this quickly.
slonezp reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 9:57 AM, flyfisher said:Kind of surprised there isn't a no compete clause to prevent this from happening this quickly.
From what I understand, There was and it has expired.
slonezp reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 9:30 AM, Fishing Rhino said:I'm just guessing here, but I'd say that most of the repairs and maintenance costs are for the engine, not the boat.
I'd agree with you for the first 5 years or so but after that I think we also need to take into consideration the quality and longevity of the boats components. Latches, hinges, pumps, switches, carpet, seating, cover material, steering components, trailer and trailer components. The other side of this coin is maintaining even mediocre quality components can greatly extend the life. Most guys don't do this and then are ticked when stuff breaks. I'm not knocking Nitro just using them for comparisons sake since they have a reputation with "value minded" individuals. In addition, I believe your opinion may be skewed a bit due to your background as a commercial fisherman. I imagine you're a bit more maintenance minded then the Average Joe boat owner.
Further North reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 6:38 AM, Megastink said:Let us pray that they offer at least one value-minded option. The price of boats is absolutely ridiculous.
Agree...that there are recreational fishing boats that sell for more than $100,000 floors me.
No judgement about folks that buy them, it is what it is...but Holy Cow...
Ben Miller reply :
Ha! This is all good to read. I've had tons of boats, but my first taught me value. Value for me is how long I can use it, keep it, and then sell it for what I bought it for. I lost my _ss on my first boat, now I buy better and always cash out before I break even. Boston Whaler has always been a good one for me and now I am hoping the War Eagle will be too!
NHBull reply :
You can't tell the cost of something until the accounting period is over and in many cases a more expensive boat sold 10 yrs later yield a greater return. Lund proves this point. Given that a motor can account for more than 1/3 of the of the price, this percentage should stay the same, but is often overlooked based on the reputation of the boat. This is also true with pontoons. The only difference is that fisherman think they can buy their way to proficiency and experience.
RenegadeBassin reply :
I didn't join this forum until after I bought my Lund but one of the biggest things I've learned from it is I'm really freaking glad I bought a Lund
12poundbass reply :
There better be something very cutting edge with this company/boat to keep this company afloat (pun very much intended, sorry).
I don't remember who it was who posted bass boat sales the other day but I was absolutely floored how few are sold each year. I don't see how a new company with such a limited market make it today if they aren't holding a trump card.
On the other hand I could see all these people who despise Mr. Morris for whatever reason buying these boats to spite him.
As far as the price goes on these boats it's absolutely out of control! But the consumer is mostly to blame. Kind of piggy backing on what @slonezp was saying, it's the consumer who needs all these add-ons. They need 10k in electronics, 7k in shallow water anchors which now include 15' talons, 4k on a TM, 2k on a Ridged ins. Light kit, we could go on and on. Simple economics if people are going to pay for the high prices then why not sell them at the high prices?
I have no problem with people having a 80-100k boat and the shallow water anchors, 15" fish finders. All of these are luxury items and you've obviously worked hard to be able to afford those luxuries and I salute you. Bottom line if people didn't buy at a high price the price wouldn't be so high.
Logan S reply :
I'm interested to see what this new company is like also, specifically to see of it's a completely new boat/design or a remake/revamp of an existing hull.
On 12/1/2017 at 6:38 AM, Megastink said:I heard Cobra is trying to make a comeback with the old Champion 210 Hull.
FYI, Charger is making and selling the Champ 210 and 198 currently, seems to be small production/sales though.
On 12/1/2017 at 10:20 PM, 12poundbass said:I don't remember who it was who posted bass boat sales the other day but I was absolutely floored how few are sold each year. I don't see how a new company with such a limited market make it today if they aren't holding a trump card.
It was me 
, not my data though...I read it on another forum.
12poundbass reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 10:32 PM, Logan S said:I'm interested to see what this new company is like also, specifically to see of it's a completely new boat/design or a remake/revamp of an existing hull.
FYI, Charger is making and selling the Champ 210 and 198 currently, seems to be small production/sales though.
It was me
, not my data though...I read it on another forum.
You da man! Crazy though less than 10,000 boats bass boats sold in the U.S. ?
Logan S reply :
Yea, much less than I would have thought. I read a related article recently that stated the bassboat market in the 80s was much bigger, like 50,000 per year. Crazy to think it's so much lower now. I think that these days you can make an older boat do the same things a newer one can by adding/upgrading electronics, poles, etc. If the hull/motor are still functional, you can save $50k buy adding modern accessories to your older rig...
Hez reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 11:06 PM, 12poundbass said:You da man! Crazy though less than 10,000 boats bass boats sold in the U.S. ?
Keep in mind...IF those are official numbers - they were taken in March- 9 months ago...and only 1/4 into 2017
Logan S reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 11:17 PM, Hez said:Keep in mind...IF those are official numbers - they were taken in March- 9 months ago...and only 1/4 into 2017
It is old, but its 12 months rolling so it's a full year of sales...It also has the 2016 and 2015 numbers for the same 1-year period. I'm sure its not exact but I have no reason to think it's not accurate enough for a general idea of the annual sales figures.
Hez reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 11:21 PM, Logan S said:It is old, but its 12 months rolling so it's a full year of sales..
Oh ok, didn't catch that
DINK WHISPERER reply :
Craigslist is full of "please take my payment for the rest of your life" adds on boats people thought they wanted and could afford. Ridiculous imo, I'll stick to used myself.
rangerjockey reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 10:32 PM, Logan S said:I'm interested to see what this new company is like also, specifically to see of it's a completely new boat/design or a remake/revamp of an existing hull.
FYI, Charger is making and selling the Champ 210 and 198 currently, seems to be small production/sales though.
It was me
The Charger/Champ 210 has sold great , just as awesome boat. The 198 has not been released yet but it's in the works. Hopefully it will be available for the boat show season.
Tim Kelly reply :
I think Backtroller boats have proven it's possible to produce a glass boat with quality components for reasonable money. Around £25k for a 17ft tiller with a 75 on the back. I'm sure a similar philosophy could be applied to bass boats. Whether the market is actually asking for a well built simplified bass boat may be another issue, but I imagine it would sell.
Hez reply :
http://vexusboats.com/
J Francho reply :
I feel like these are going to be expensive....
12poundbass reply :
Hmmmm. As @J Francho knows I'm no businessman lol.....wouldn't you at least have a model to show or prototype when you have a launch like this? These guys are big wigs from Ranger so obviously they know what they're doing but I for one am pretty bummed and left scratching my head because there is to see is words for now.
Tim Kelly reply :
Hype. It's the new black. No doubt there will be irritating videos released like Daiwa do.
J Francho reply :
On 12/2/2017 at 2:19 AM, 12poundbass said:These guys are big wigs from Ranger
Right, so the boats will be heavy and slow? 
Tim Kelly reply :
And expensive. 
Glenn reply :
https://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_123/bass-boat-vexus.html
BrianinMD reply :
On 12/2/2017 at 2:19 AM, 12poundbass said:Hmmmm. As @J Francho knows I'm no businessman lol.....wouldn't you at least have a model to show or prototype when you have a launch like this? These guys are big wigs from Ranger so obviously they know what they're doing but I for one am pretty bummed and left scratching my head because there is to see is words for now.
no, its all about marketing and hype. they reveal all now and their is nothing to keep the hype going until the classic. now we get to see glimpses and prototype drawings show up during this time.
12poundbass reply :
On 12/2/2017 at 3:05 AM, BrianinMD said:no, its all about marketing and hype. they reveal all now and their is nothing to keep the hype going until the classic. now we get to see glimpses and prototype drawings show up during this time.
Usually I'm a patient person, but when it comes to stuff like this I want to see it all now.
They're going to make tin boats too. Not sure if I can wait. Makes you wonder if there'll be and big names at the classic fishing out of a Vexus?
These guys must have something big and innovative to fork over the cash to put up and brand new building and dive in head first with doing both glass and tin right out of the gate.
J Francho reply :
It looks like they're still building the facility. That countdown clock is a common trick to build interest.
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 8:23 AM, slonezp said:Heard the rumors as well. The big V6 motors aren't cheap and are 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the boats. I think if the other manufacturers could do a moderately equipped, quality built glass 18ft boat with a 150 for under the $30k they would give Nitro a run for the money. Is it feasible? Not sure. No other company has the buying power that Johnny has to keep costs low. Johnny has already implemented his power. He's installing Tracker parts in Ranger tins (proof on another forum)
As far as the term value, it has different meanings to different people. Value might mean "the least expensive" it might mean "the best bang for the buck" and it might mean "pay more up front for quality and less on the back end for repairs" and it might mean "greater resale value". Our interpretations of the word should be relative to the purchase at hand. A guy who buys a $25k boat shouldn't expect the same quality and features that a $60k boat has Just like a guy who buys a Chevy shouldn't expect the same quality and features of a Lambo. Therein lies the problem because the fishing industry has done an incredible job marketing to our desires to become better fishermen. Therein lies the "excessive" costs. A fishing boat should be viewed at as a tool or a platform to catch fish rather than a tool to improve ones deficiencies. Some tools are better platforms than others and the platforms are all relative to the way we fish and the waters we fish. Fishing out of a $90k Ranger doesn't make us a better fishermen than a $25k Z17, just as driving a $250k Lambo doesn't make us a better driver than a $25 Chevy
Added a thought.
WRB reply :
On 12/2/2017 at 2:52 AM, Glenn said:https://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_123/bass-boat-vexus.html
Vexus sounds and looks a lot like Lexus.
Tom
Further North reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 10:32 PM, Logan S said:It was me
Curious...is that number of units out the door, or sales dollars in the first column?
Fishing Rhino reply :
Hmmmm, why can I see a large number of Ranger devotees switching to the new brand, just to get away from Morris?
How deep did the non-compete agreement reach into the existing Ranger power structure at the time of the transaction? Seems like Johnny might have a few sleepless nights. The lawyers must be huddling, looking for some way to alter this course of events.
Could Morris find this deal to be akin to the introduction of "New Coke" a few decades ago?
Logan S reply :
On 12/2/2017 at 12:18 PM, Further North said:Curious...is that number of units out the door, or sales dollars in the first column?
I believe it is total boat sales, as in the # of boats bought....So a little over 9K new bassboats in total were sold from March 2016 to March 2017.
----
I know it's still early, but I can't be the only who was hoping for something a little more than, "We're going to make boats..." I wanted to SEE something!
volzfan59 reply :
Another new, to me anyway, is Ballistic Boats. Good looking boat. I've been told they are very expensive how ever.
WRB reply :
Non compete agreements rarely extend beyond 2 years and don't include anyone other than owners selling the company, not employees. In most states you can't deprive someone from making a living in thier career field. I don't see a problem with the new LLC starting up a new boat company.
Tom
Fishing Rhino reply :
On 12/3/2017 at 12:14 AM, WRB said:Non compete agreements rarely extend beyond 2 years and don't include anyone other than owners selling the company, not employees. In most states you can't deprive someone from making a living in thier career field. I don't see a problem with the new LLC starting up a new boat company.
Tom
I don't see a problem with it either. It just seems to me that it might be an Excedrin headache for BPS/Morris. He bought out Ranger only for it to be resurrected, albeit with a different name. Time will tell.
A-Jay reply :
On 12/3/2017 at 3:47 AM, Fishing Rhino said:I don't see a problem with it either. It just seems to me that it might be an Excedrin headache for BPS/Morris. He bought out Ranger only for it to be resurrected, albeit with a different name. Time will tell.
Seems like someone saw the writing on the wall as this may have been the plan all along.
Timing may not be everything but it can certainly be a good thing.
A-Jay
MickD reply :
On 12/1/2017 at 11:06 PM, 12poundbass said:Crazy though less than 10,000 boats bass boats sold in the U.S. ?
Keep in mind this chart is only bass boats. Would be interesting to see total "fishing" boat sales, with all the Lunds, Crestliners, Monarks, BPS, and others.
Further North reply :
On 12/2/2017 at 9:12 PM, Logan S said:On 12/2/2017 at 12:18 PM, Further North said:Curious...is that number of units out the door, or sales dollars in the first column?
I believe it is total boat sales, as in the # of boats bought....So a little over 9K new bassboats in total were sold from March 2016 to March 2017.
Thanks. That makes a big difference in interpretation of $$$.
NHBull reply :
Competition ultimately helps the consumer, albeit there are different levels of consumers.
The only things that sometimes becomes an issue is intellectual property and that usually lies with the previous owner and to the extent that it was protected.
Peacock Choppa reply :
A new brand of bass boats will be introduced Friday morning in Flippin, Ark., another site has learned.
“Fifty years in the making... Centuries of custom boat building experience... And an unparalleled commitment to excellence. It’s all part of our deep-rooted legacy as we launch an all-new fishing boat brand in Flippin, Ark,” reads an invitation to the company’s unveiling, which is slated for 11 a.m. Friday at the Forrest L. Wood Outdoor Sports Gallery.
A ribbon-cutting ceremony will take place afterward at the nearby Flippin Industrial Park, where the company’s manufacturing facility is presently under construction and is slated to be completed during the first quarter of 2018.
The identity of the brand is being withheld until Friday's announcement, however, the leadership group behind the new company includes familiar names in the bass boat industry. Keith Daffron, the former vice president of sales at Ranger Boats and grandson of Ranger Boats founders Forrest and Nina Wood, will serve as president. Mendel Hughes, the former vice president of finance at Ranger, will be the chief financial officer.
Both Daffron and Hughes, along with Randy Hopper, resigned from their executive positions at Ranger in November 2015, less than a year after Bass Pro Shops acquired Ranger, Triton and Stratos from Fishing Holdings, LLC.
Read more: http://www.another site.com/docktalk_article/18801/new-boat-company-to-be-unveiled-friday#.WiSSvoWcE5s#ixzz50FLbloom
12poundbass reply :
On 12/4/2017 at 8:15 AM, Peacock Choppa said:This is what I found on the subject!A new brand of bass boats will be introduced Friday morning in Flippin, Ark., another site has learned.
“Fifty years in the making... Centuries of custom boat building experience... And an unparalleled commitment to excellence. It’s all part of our deep-rooted legacy as we launch an all-new fishing boat brand in Flippin, Ark,” reads an invitation to the company’s unveiling, which is slated for 11 a.m. Friday at the Forrest L. Wood Outdoor Sports Gallery.
A ribbon-cutting ceremony will take place afterward at the nearby Flippin Industrial Park, where the company’s manufacturing facility is presently under construction and is slated to be completed during the first quarter of 2018.
The identity of the brand is being withheld until Friday's announcement, however, the leadership group behind the new company includes familiar names in the bass boat industry. Keith Daffron, the former vice president of sales at Ranger Boats and grandson of Ranger Boats founders Forrest and Nina Wood, will serve as president. Mendel Hughes, the former vice president of finance at Ranger, will be the chief financial officer.
Both Daffron and Hughes, along with Randy Hopper, resigned from their executive positions at Ranger in November 2015, less than a year after Bass Pro Shops acquired Ranger, Triton and Stratos from Fishing Holdings, LLC.
Read more: http://www.another site.com/docktalk_article/18801/new-boat-company-to-be-unveiled-friday#.WiSSvoWcE5s#ixzz50FLbloom
Fashionably late?
slonezp reply :
On 12/2/2017 at 12:18 PM, Further North said:Curious...is that number of units out the door, or sales dollars in the first column?
http://boatingindustry.com/top-stories/2016/06/09/market-trends-freshwater-fishing-boats-growing-larger-more-sophisticated/
Recent data from Statistical Surveys confirms that the freshwater fishing market continues to exhibit modest growth in the mid-single digit range each year. According to SSI, in 2013 dealers sold a total of 53,371 outboard-powered aluminum fishing boats in the United States. That figure grew to 56,788 boats in 2014, representing growth of 6.4 percent. For calendar year 2015, U.S. dealers sold 59,085 freshwater fishing boats, a further 4.0 percent jump.
Sales of fiberglass freshwater fishing boats were lower in terms of overall unit volumes but follow a similar trend, growing from 7,577 boats in 2013 to 8,031 boats in 2014 for a 5.9 percent gain. For 2015, dealers sold 8,561 fiberglass freshwater fishing boats, representing a 6.5 percent gain.
Further North reply :
On 12/4/2017 at 10:44 AM, slonezp said:http://boatingindustry.com/top-stories/2016/06/09/market-trends-freshwater-fishing-boats-growing-larger-more-sophisticated/
Recent data from Statistical Surveys confirms that the freshwater fishing market continues to exhibit modest growth in the mid-single digit range each year. According to SSI, in 2013 dealers sold a total of 53,371 outboard-powered aluminum fishing boats in the United States. That figure grew to 56,788 boats in 2014, representing growth of 6.4 percent. For calendar year 2015, U.S. dealers sold 59,085 freshwater fishing boats, a further 4.0 percent jump.
Sales of fiberglass freshwater fishing boats were lower in terms of overall unit volumes but follow a similar trend, growing from 7,577 boats in 2013 to 8,031 boats in 2014 for a 5.9 percent gain. For 2015, dealers sold 8,561 fiberglass freshwater fishing boats, representing a 6.5 percent gain.
Thanks!
Johnbt reply :
I'll look at them when they get cranked up. I'm still looking, but I'm in no hurry.
The chart explains why the local Allison dealer didn't have a bunch of bass boats for me to look at. Nice stuff though.
12poundbass reply :
On 12/2/2017 at 1:57 AM, J Francho said:I feel like these are going to be expensive....
It appears that you hit the nail on the head!
Will you be making a better or different bass boat or what?
Certain people might think we’re coming out with a Ferrari. We want to build a product that we aren’t afraid to sell, and a customer’s not ashamed to spend his hard-earned money to buy. Generally that means the top end of the segment…high resale values, and the boat the stands the test of time better.
When will we see the first ones?
We’ll introduce the product at the Classic, but they’ll be prototypes that were not built on a production line. We’ll have a production line soon thereafter. The product will evolve…to new models throughout calendar year 2018.
Can you say anything about price point?
It certainly won’t be the cheapest in the marketplace, but I think it will be one of the better values. …new technologies, quality, things we will reinforce behind the product….
This is from a Bass Blaster interview.
Megastink reply :
They want to build the best quality and charge whatever the price is that makes sense for said quality. I’m not surprised, considering these folks all come from Ranger. I’m sure the product will be top notch.
still, part of me is saddened a little. I think the industry needs an independently owned, budget-friendly glass boat option. This interview makes me look even harder at Xpress and Crestliner.
J Francho reply :
Xpress and Crestliner are not independently owned.
12poundbass reply :
I'm a little bummed but not surprised. I was hoping for something new in the lower price range. As the years go on the prices of every boat including the lower end boats keep going up and up.
Oh well. Tracker makes affordable boats. Some of the Ranger tins aren't out of this world. Lund with the new Renegade is pretty sweet. I know there are others too, but this three stick in my mind.
It'll be neat to see if they come up with something cutting edge and a game changer or just another $70-100k boat.
Megastink reply :
On 12/7/2017 at 9:45 PM, J Francho said:Xpress and Crestliner are not independently owned.
What i meant was, “not owned by JM”
J Francho reply :
Gotcha!
12poundbass reply :
On 12/7/2017 at 11:18 PM, Megastink said:What i meant was, “not owned by JM”
Oh no not you too!
Megastink reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 12:50 AM, 12poundbass said:Oh no not you too!
He does not need more money, especially mine. This business needs to grow, and discontinuing brands like Legend, Stratos, and (I read somewhere) Triton doesn’t help. I work for a family owned business in an industry full of corporations. I root for the little guy.
12poundbass reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 12:55 AM, Megastink said:He does not need more money, especially mine. This business needs to grow, and discontinuing brands like Legend, Stratos, and (I read somewhere) Triton doesn’t help. I work for a family owned business in an industry full of corporations. I root for the little guy.
Don't get me wrong, I root for the little guy too. I spend my hard earned money at a small tackle shop 90% of the time.
I worked for the largest company in the field I'm in and it was an unpleasant experience. The company I'm at now in the same field only started 9 or so years ago with less than 15 people. We've now grown to over 500 in 4-5 states.
We the owner of my company and JM and so many others have done is what makes this country great and it's what this country was built on. One of my all time favorite TV series is "The men who built America". It's about the industrial revolution and famous names and how they got where they did.
My point is JM started with nothing and look at what he has now. The companies he buys are selling voluntarily so what's wrong with that? Does he need more money? Of course not but what he's doing with all this money isn't all that bad either. Some could call him a modern day Teddy Rosevelt.
Again I support small businesses the majority of the time. I also tip my hat and admire JM and so many others who started out as a small business and build it from the ground up. Who wouldn't?
Russ E reply :
while I believe one company controlling the boat market is not good for the industry, I am not going to get rid of my Johny Morris built ranger.
I agree with @12poundbass. Bass pro started as a small business and turned into a outdoor supply empire. sounds like JM is living the american dream.
12poundbass reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 1:37 AM, Weedwhacker said:while I believe one company controlling the boat market is not good for the industry, I am not going to get rid of my Johny Morris built ranger.
I agree with @12poundbass. Bass pro started as a small business and turned into a outdoor supply empire. sounds like JM is living the american dream.
I'm guessing you weren't 100% serious when you said he controlled the boat market. As you probably know the Government would quickly step in and split it up.
Something else I thought of about JM vs small business @Megastink the Tracker brand is one of if not the most affordable boats on the market. There are only a couple boats I can afford or I'm comfortable forking over the cash for. Basscat is a small business, I don't think I could afford. Ranger before JM a RT178 or 188 is about it. Phoenix, Legend, Trition minus the tins, Skeeter, and so many others are out of mine and many others price ranges unless we buy a 20 year old one of these. JM with his Trackers and smaller Nitros keep us little guys in mind. The other small family owned boat builders cater to the higher end clientele which is perfectly fine and great.
My point, while JM is on a buying spree and has more than he'll ever need, he got there catering to us little guys.
Russ E reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 2:18 AM, 12poundbass said:I'm guessing you weren't 100% serious when you said he controlled the boat market. As you probably know the Government would quickly step in and split it up.
Something else I thought of about JM vs small business @Megastink the Tracker brand is one of if not the most affordable boats on the market. There are only a couple boats I can afford or I'm comfortable forking over the cash for. Basscat is a small business, I don't think I could afford. Ranger before JM a RT178 or 188 is about it. Phoenix, Legend, Trition minus the tins, Skeeter, and so many others are out of mine and many others price ranges unless we buy a 20 year old one of these. JM with his Trackers and smaller Nitros keep us little guys in mind. The other small family owned boat builders cater to the higher end clientele which is perfectly fine and great.
My point, while JM is on a buying spree and has more than he'll ever need, he got there catering to us little guys.
controlling the boat market was an exaggeration.
I have nothing against the tracker or nitro's. fished out of both, they are reliable boats.
From my own boat shopping experience the lower cost is partly attributed to the lack of standard features.
When I was in the market for my latest boat I quoted a Ranger Z175 and a Nitro Z7.
the baseline prices were quite a bit different. with the ranger costing significantly more.
once I added all of the extras of the ranger to the nitro, they were only $1000.00 different.
That difference was worth the sealed waterproof storage and ranger trail trailer in my opinion.
12poundbass reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 2:52 AM, Weedwhacker said:controlling the boat market was an exaggeration.
I have nothing against the tracker or nitro's. fished out of both, they are reliable boats.
From my own boat shopping experience the lower cost is partly attributed to the lack of standard features.
When I was in the market for my latest boat I quoted a Ranger Z175 and a Nitro Z7.
the baseline prices were quite a bit different. with the ranger costing significantly more.
once I added all of the extras of the ranger to the nitro, they were only $1000.00 different.
That difference was worth the sealed waterproof storage and ranger trail trailer in my opinion.
Agreed. You add things to these boats there are other boats that compete. When I was quoted a Tracker 175txw this spring I was quite disappointed to find out they're basically a cookie cutter boat. That being said the things I wanted to change I can live without except the "fish finders". So for me it isn't a deal breaker.
Megastink reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 2:18 AM, 12poundbass said:I'm guessing you weren't 100% serious when you said he controlled the boat market. As you probably know the Government would quickly step in and split it up.
Something else I thought of about JM vs small business @Megastink the Tracker brand is one of if not the most affordable boats on the market. There are only a couple boats I can afford or I'm comfortable forking over the cash for. Basscat is a small business, I don't think I could afford. Ranger before JM a RT178 or 188 is about it. Phoenix, Legend, Trition minus the tins, Skeeter, and so many others are out of mine and many others price ranges unless we buy a 20 year old one of these. JM with his Trackers and smaller Nitros keep us little guys in mind. The other small family owned boat builders cater to the higher end clientele which is perfectly fine and great.
My point, while JM is on a buying spree and has more than he'll ever need, he got there catering to us little guys.
This brings the conversation full circle: I originally said that I was disappointed that Vexus will be a higher price point boat: not made for us little guys. And I’m not saying that buying most of your competitors isn’t the American Dream, but more competition = better prices. Maybe that’s why boats are getting more expensive? If the five or six top selling boats brands are all under the same umbrella, and they creep their prices up, what’s that going to do to the rest of the industry? WHAT HAS IT DONE SO FAR? Certainly hasn’t made anything more affordable.
12poundbass reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 6:41 AM, Megastink said:This brings the conversation full circle: I originally said that I was disappointed that Vexus will be a higher price point boat: not made for us little guys. And I’m not saying that buying most of your competitors isn’t the American Dream, but more competition = better prices. Maybe that’s why boats are getting more expensive? If the five or six top selling boats brands are all under the same umbrella, and they creep their prices up, what’s that going to do to the rest of the industry? WHAT HAS IT DONE SO FAR? Certainly hasn’t made anything more affordable.
If the consumer doesn't buy a boat at $60-100k they wouldn't charge those prices. Prices these day are absolutely ridiculous, but people are buying them. The prices were sky high before and companies were sold. You and I and all the other little guys are his bread and butter and you know you can't bite the hand that feeds you. He has Ranger now for his higher end consumers.
I would love to see the actual cost of these boats and the electronics that go on them. I know glass boats are very labor intensive but high enough to justify those prices? Garmin just slashed their prices $400-500 for black Friday. You know they still made money. Yet we still buy buy buy. ????
slonezp reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 7:44 AM, 12poundbass said:If the consumer doesn't buy a boat at $60-100k they wouldn't charge those prices. Prices these day are absolutely ridiculous, but people are buying them. The prices were sky high before and companies were sold. You and I and all the other little guys are his bread and butter and you know you can't bite the hand that feeds you. He has Ranger now for his higher end consumers.
I would love to see the actual cost of these boats and the electronics that go on them. I know glass boats are very labor intensive but high enough to justify those prices? Garmin just slashed their prices $400-500 for black Friday. You know they still made money. Yet we still buy buy buy. ????
Do we have a choice? and a better question is why do some have issue with paying $50k for a boat that could potentially bring them joy, happiness, better relationships with family and friends for 20 years or more, and have no issue paying $1k for an iphone they are going to get rid of in 2 years so they can then pay $1500 for the same thing only newer.
Back to question 1. All of these boats and engines and trolling motors and electronics are manufactured in the United States by skilled craftsman. The jobs aren't being shipped to Mexico like the Big 3 automakers to keep costs down. Boats are not a disposable item in the same sense as a car or cell phone is. The fact is we are putting demands on the manufacturers to build better rigs. Look at the innovations over the last 20 years in fishing boats. Hull design, storage, livewell innovation, the use of different materials in the build process and so on and so forth. R&D cost money retooling the shops and retraining employees cost money, and the jobs are staying here. 25 years ago a moderately equipped F150 cost $15k. Today, a moderately equipped F150 cost more than 3 times that and the Toyota Tundra is more American than the Ford. I don't think increased costs in boat building have exceeded that of the automobile. We must also take into consideration a boat is really a luxury item and not a necessity.
BASS hasn't helped average Joe fisherman and is probably the best proponent for the increased desire that us poor souls to spend our hard earned cash on a stupid boat to catch stupid green and brown fish. I know a young man in his late 20's who still lives at home with his folks. He just dropped $50k on a used Skeeter and financed it for 15 years. My only thought was "This boy ain't never gonna be able to afford to leave home"
Lastly, we live in the good ol' USA. We don't have to buy new and we have plenty of choices due to competition. Let someone else take the depreciation hit and buy a 3 or 4 year old boat.
12poundbass reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 9:13 AM, slonezp said:Do we have a choice? and a better question is why do some have issue with paying $50k for a boat that could potentially bring them joy, happiness, better relationships with family and friends for 20 years or more, and have no issue paying $1k for an iphone they are going to get rid of in 2 years so they can then pay $1500 for the same thing only newer.
Back to question 1. All of these boats and engines and trolling motors and electronics are manufactured in the United States by skilled craftsman. The jobs aren't being shipped to Mexico like the Big 3 automakers to keep costs down. Boats are not a disposable item in the same sense as a car or cell phone is. The fact is we are putting demands on the manufacturers to build better rigs. Look at the innovations over the last 20 years in fishing boats. Hull design, storage, livewell innovation, the use of different materials in the build process and so on and so forth. R&D cost money retooling the shops and retraining employees cost money, and the jobs are staying here. 25 years ago a moderately equipped F150 cost $15k. Today, a moderately equipped F150 cost more than 3 times that and the Toyota Tundra is more American than the Ford. I don't think increased costs in boat building have exceeded that of the automobile. We must also take into consideration a boat is really a luxury item and not a necessity.
BASS hasn't helped average Joe fisherman and is probably the best proponent for the increased desire that us poor souls to spend our hard earned cash on a stupid boat to catch stupid green and brown fish. I know a young man in his late 20's who still lives at home with his folks. He just dropped $50k on a used Skeeter and financed it for 15 years. My only thought was "This boy ain't never gonna be able to afford to leave home"
Lastly, we live in the good ol' USA. We don't have to buy new and we have plenty of choices due to competition. Let someone else take the depreciation hit and buy a 3 or 4 year old boat.
I don't have any issue with how people are spending their money at all. It's your hard earned money you can spend it how you want. I think the higher end boats are ridiculously priced, but it's simple economics. Let the market dictate your price.
I would be ok with buying a $40-50k tin boat such as a Lund. Tin boats will practically last you a lifetime, so divide that cost over say 20-30 years ($1800. Year +/-) that isn't too bad for entertainment and like you said quality family time. Money well spent in my eyes.
As far as phones go.... I've had 3 smart phones and I've paid $15 for all 3. All were unused. I'd never pay that kinda money for a phone. I'm ok with people who do.
RenegadeBassin reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 8:20 PM, 12poundbass said:I don't have any issue with how people are spending their money at all. It's your hard earned money you can spend it how you want. I think the higher end boats are ridiculously priced, but it's simple economics. Let the market dictate your price.
I was shocked yesterday when I went on ranger's website for the heck of it and saw that one of their new boats price tag is 98k. If I had 98k, I'd buy a 40k boat and and a matching truck to pull it
12poundbass reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 8:29 PM, RenegadeBassin said:I was shocked yesterday when I went on ranger's website for the heck of it and saw that one of their new boats price tag is 98k. If I had 98k, I'd buy a 40k boat and and a matching truck to pull it!
@slonezp posted a pic of a Ranger that I think was $104k. Granted it had a ton of add-ons but still.
slonezp reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 8:35 PM, 12poundbass said:@slonezp posted a pic of a Ranger that I think was $104k. Granted it had a ton of add-ons but still.
Have you looked at the price of ski and wake boats recently? They make bass boats seem affordable
J Francho reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 8:20 PM, 12poundbass said:I would be ok with buying a $40-50k tin boat such as a Lund.
That'll get you an 18' boat, well equipped. Tinnies are expensive, too. Priced out a 20' Pro Guide w/ a 200. I was a little shocked. One tip if you finance, don't finance electronics...
Megastink reply :
I paid just under $14k for my 16’ Crestliner Storm 1600 with a 20hp Merc (local lake has 20hp max).
Sounds like this’ll be my last boat for a good long while. Haha
slonezp reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 10:15 PM, J Francho said:That'll get you an 18' boat, well equipped. Tinnies are expensive, too. Priced out a 20' Pro Guide w/ a 200. I was a little shocked. One tip if you finance, don't finance electronics...
In defense of purchasing a Lund, i could sell mine as it sits for just about what i paid for it 5 years ago taking a hit only on the electronics and talon.
12poundbass reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 10:15 PM, J Francho said:One tip if you finance, don't finance electronics...
I'm not going to lie when I was looking this spring and was asking the dealer about them, of course he said he could throw them into the loan, it would add about $7/month per $1k. That's pretty tempting when you see all the new electronics and everything they can do.
My mind still isn't made up which route I'm going as far as the upgraded boat goes. I'm paying cash for the electronics though.
J Francho reply :
Yay, $7/mo on a 20 year old fish finder. No thank you.
12poundbass reply :
On 12/8/2017 at 10:51 PM, J Francho said:Yay, $7/mo on a 20 year old fish finder. No thank you.
I agree.
boostr reply :
I'll stick to my recently bought 10 year old Stratos thank you very much. And I'll buy used as well if I ever replace this one.
rangerjockey reply :
If your talking about a new boat I don't think I'd worry about financing the electronics.
Your going to be financing and paying interest on a bunch of other stuff that's going to wear out or become obsolete like batteries, trailer tires, trolling motor, charger ect.
Get what you really want and can afford.
slonezp reply :
On 12/16/2017 at 1:50 AM, rangerjockey said:If your talking about a new boat I don't think I'd worry about financing the electronics.
Your going to be financing and paying interest on a bunch of other stuff that's going to wear out or become obsolete like batteries, trailer tires, trolling motor, charger ect.
Get what you really want and can afford.
Financing aside, It's normally cheaper to buy electronics online than to pay full retail from the boat dealer.
rangerjockey reply :
In my case the dealer installed the additional units for free so it was about a wash. If you install them yourself no doubt you could save a few bucks by buying online.
A-Jay reply :
On 12/16/2017 at 8:55 PM, rangerjockey said:In my case the dealer installed the additional units for free so it was about a wash. If you install them yourself no doubt you could save a few bucks by buying online.
Mine too.
A-Jay
detroit1 reply :
- My 16' 1996 Grumman deep v with 50 hp evinrude cost $8800. Comparable 2017 rigs cost twice that. Sadly, my income hasn't doubled since 1996, so there is no new boat in my future...
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