Downsizing the rig’s tow vehicle 2024
Ski213 reply :
Here’s where I am. I tow with an older Chevy 2500HD with a 6.0. I don’t know what my rig weighs as towed but I’d guess 4000# max. on a tournament day (including trailer).
It’s newer truck time. I love my truck and I’ll not part with it, but all bets are off at 18 yrs old and 1/4 million miles as far as my confidence towing long distance. If I took my truck cross country and back with zero issues I’d not be surprised. I’d also not be surprised if something flew apart between my house and the road.
Thinking about going to a newer used 1/2 ton truck. There’s not a doubt that I can tow my boat with a 1/2 ton. Most of the boats I see at the ramp are behind 1/2 ton trucks. My question is for anybody who has switched from a 3/4 ton to a half ton for towing. I know what the numbers say I’m looking for just real world experiences and opinions.
I aprreciate any input you guys have.
A-Jay reply :
It may not be all about how much a vehicle can tow but also how well it does it.
When purchasing a tow vehicle, beside having the guts to move & stop a load, I look for features that can offer both the truck and me as the drive, the best chance to be safe & successful.
Features like:
HILL START ASSIST,
TOW/HAUL MODE,
TRAILER SWAY CONTROL,
TRAILER BRAKE CONTROLLER,
AUTO GRADE BRAKING,
TAPSHIFT,
TRANSMISSION TEMPERATURE GAUGE
Also being able to switch from TWO-WHEEL DRIVE, ALL-WHEEL DRIVE (AWD) FOUR-WHEEL DRIVE gives the option of enjoying outstanding traction on demand.
Where available, adding a Max Trailer Package can add valuable features like enhanced cooling radiator, revised shock tuning and heavier duty rear springs.
Current rig is 6.2L and is a pleasure to tow with.
Good Luck with your search & pending purchase.
New Truck day is always a good time.
A-Jay
bassfisher444 reply :
My company truck is a GM 2500 with the 6.0, it tows 4-5K about the same as a V8 f150 does not bad at all. However towing with Ford Super Duty or Ram HD is a complely different experience, they feel more like a HD truck and seem handle big loads much better than the GM trucks do. Any 1/2 ton truck will tow a 4K boat without much issue. For Ford I would recommend avoiding the ecoboost and going with the 5.0 V8, for Ram the 5.7 Hemi is the only engine I would get, the GM 4.8, 5.3, 6.0 and 6.2 v8s are all pretty reliable but the 4.8 is pretty weak when towing, the 5.7 Tundras are good trucks also.
CountryboyinDC reply :
You can definitely take the 'buy a little more truck than you need' idea too far. A dozen years ago I bought a 3/4 ton Dodge with the 6BT Cummins when I thought my life would turn out a little different than it has and I was sick of the underwhelming capabilities of my S-10. It has 30,000 miles on it today, and boat-wise, the heaviest thing it hauls is 2 kayaks. With the high prices of new 1/2 tons and low miles it has, it'll probably be with me for a while, but I'll be the first to admit I have way more truck than I need. While it's great 'not know the trailer's back there', the new gas trucks have way more power than the small block trucks of the 80s and 90s. My brother-in-law last year bought a Tundra with the V8, and it pulls his enclosed motocross/sleeping area trailer with relative ease. I would guess that trailer is around 4k (it is tandem axle and has brakes, so it should be raked above 3.5k).
Way2slow reply :
I went the opposite direction with my 20' Dual console with a 225. I went from a 4WD 1/2 ton to a 4WD 2500HD. The 1/2 towed it fairly good @ 13.5mgp, the 2500HD 6.0, tows it no problem @ 9.5-10MPG. The 1/2 ton I could turn it around at most small boat ramps. The 2500HD I can usually turn it around in most Walmart parking lots.
The huge difference comes in when you start hitting hills, the HD doesn't pay any attention to them in OD, the 1/2 ton with 350, which I had a highly modified transmission for heavy towing, still had to come out of OD. I doubt I would even tow a boat that size with a 1/2 ton in OD if its was a factory stock transmission.
gimruis reply :
This is interesting. Not many people downsize from an HD truck to a 1/2 ton truck. There's a fair number of threads asking if smaller trucks/SUVs have enough power to tow a boat, but very few asking if there's enough power from a full size 1/2 ton truck. Will be interesting to see how many people respond with a real world experience on downsizing from an HD to a normal 1/2 ton. Sounds like the bassfisher444 may have experience with this.
Bird reply :
Any of the 8 cylinder half ton offerings will handily tow 4K and give a nice ride when not towing.
When you move up to 2500 series trucks you gain beefier components and payload but your nowhere near that requirement. Imo
The 1500's I've towed with were 5.3 vortec Chevy's and 5.7 Hemi's, both engines were outstanding and would play with 4000 lbs.
I've since moved to 2500 6.4 Hemi but tow a 30ft RV with my boat in the bed.
SuperDuty reply :
Towing 4k pounds with a 1/2 ton is a cake walk. You'll get mid 20's mpg with a Ford EcoBoost. My son's friend haukef6a 12k lbs trailer with his EcoBoost. That thing is a pulling beast
But a 3/4 ton is built much heavier and made for towing.
I use to pull 9k lbs daily with a Ford f150.
Scott F reply :
On 1/24/2020 at 12:30 AM, SuperDuty said:Towing 4k pounds with a 1/2 ton is a cake walk. You'll get mid 20's mpg with a Ford EcoBoost. My son's friend haukef6a 12k lbs trailer with his EcoBoost.
My new F150 with a non- Ecoboost engine has the highest MPG sticker of any truck at 25 mpg highway. It will get 25 under perfect conditions but I get much less than that towing a boat that is less than 2000 lbs.
Way2slow reply :
For his boat, which is only slightly heavier than mine, I would see no problem using a 1/2 ton. I've used both and like I said, other than hills, I was perfectly happy. When I bought the 2500HD, and sold my 1500, I didn't realize I was going need a tanker truck to feed the thing. On it's best day, not towing anything, 13 mpg was seldom achieved, normally 11 - 12 mpg. My 1/2 would get 16-17mpg without the boat behind it.
Where I live, I drive a minimum of 25 miles to the nearest largely populated area, so when you want anything more that a loaf of bread or other common small items, you make a 50 - 60 mile round trip to get it.
What that means, that 2500HD stays sitting with a battery maintainer on it, and I only drive it to tow my boat or every now and then just to run it some.
MY old 93 Toyota 4WD pickup or the wife's VW Beetle Convertible is my daily transportation. Feeding that 2500HD gets expensive.
Ski213 reply :
I appreciate the input. Keep it coming. It’s been exactly what I am looking for.
@A-Jay I agree. The numbers aren’t everything. It’s how it handles it as much as how much it can move. In motocross (and I’m sure the term is used elsewhere) the tool used to assess real world function was the butt dyno which of course factors in a lot of other things than power like suspension, braking, and weight distribution.
SuperDuty reply :
Those new Chevy z71 sure are one sharp truck! I tried talking the wifey into one but we just bought her a new 4runner offroad premium. And ofcourse, within 10 days of buying it, I had to put a 3.5" lift kit and 33" tires on it. She's always gotta stand out lol.
The Toyota is rated to pull 5500#
And her sister's off road beast is pushing around 600HP. That thing is wicked!!
slonezp reply :
I went from a Tundra 5.7 to a Super Duty with a 6.2 and my boat/trailer is probably 3500+ as far as tow weight. My biggest beef with the Tundra and towing was the transmission would hunt with the trailer connected. Aside from that it pulled the boat fine. The Super Duty pulls the boat smooth as butter.
SuperDuty reply :
On 1/24/2020 at 9:57 PM, slonezp said:I went from a Tundra 5.7 to a Super Duty with a 6.2 and my boat/trailer is probably 3500+ as far as tow weight. My biggest beef with the Tundra and towing was the transmission would hunt with the trailer connected. Aside from that it pulled the boat fine. The Super Duty pulls the boat smooth as butter.
I love my superduty,it's a pulling machine with the diesel.
Ski213 reply :
@bassfisher444 curious why you would avoid the eco boost trucks. If I went the F150 route I’m primarily looking at the 5.0 but here there seem to be a lot more of the eco boost trucks. I have some concern with the replacement costs for the turbos but was wondering why you mentioned avoiding them.
SuperDuty reply :
There are around 600 F150's in my company's fleet, the majority with the EcoBoost. We have ran them for several years now and they have been top notch with hardly any issues. I, too, would like to know why he feels they should be avoided. Before the EcoBoost got pushed into our fleet, everyone had either the 4.6 or 5.0 and we've all liked the EcoBoost much better.
Way2slow reply :
I used to be a Die Hard Ford fan, but through the years, they have made me think more and more, you couldn't give me one. For years, I've said I would never have another front wheel drive ford vehicle. I've considered those disposable vehicles, but still thought their rear wheel drive were good. I've put almost a million miles on Ford vans while I was working as a road serves technician for industrial equipment and had very few problems with them.
However even that has changed in the past couple of year from friends that have them. Just today I stopped at a Pawn and Gun shop to look for a brand of 22LR bullets. There was a failry new looking F-250 with a very large chrome front grill. The chrome on it was wavy and lifting off over the whole top and down both sides. My brother bought a 2018 Ford Super Duty and it has been in the shop almost as much as he has driven it.
SuperDuty reply :
On 1/25/2020 at 9:50 AM, Way2slow said:I used to be a Die Hard Ford fan, but through the years, they have made me think more and more, you couldn't give me one. For years, I've said I would never have another front wheel drive ford vehicle. I've considered those disposable vehicles, but still thought their rear wheel drive were good. I've put almost a million miles on Ford vans while I was working as a road serves technician for industrial equipment and had very few problems with them.
However even that has changed in the past couple of year from friends that have them. Just today I stopped at a Pawn and Gun shop to look for a brand of 22LR bullets. There was a failry new looking F-250 with a very large chrome front grill. The chrome on it was wavy and lifting off over the whole top and down both sides. My brother bought a 2018 Ford Super Duty and it has been in the shop almost as much as he has driven it.
Everything is going that way these days. All these manufacturers do is figure out a way to make things cheaper. Nothing is built to last anymore, it's built to replace in a few years. Ever wonder why you see lawn mowers from the 70's still being used but mowers from 2010 are broken down in someone's back yard?
One of my duties in the corporate world was to figure out how to save money via process improvements (lean manufacturing). Things like measuring how many steps it would take to perform a task and how to reduce it.
It's not just Ford, it's every single one of them....I can give you a comparable story for Dodge, Chevy, Toyota, Nissan etc.
Glenn reply :
Whelp, I have an F-450 diesel and it's convinced me to never get a diesel again. Don't get me wrong, it pulls like no other...fantastic tow vehicle. But the super-high maintenance of a diesel combined with the fact it "breaks down" (reduces power) when the even slightest thing isn't perfect has left me with expensive maintenance and repair bills...and stranded on the road while towing more than a few times. Lot's of towing bills and expensive repairs because, ya know, it's a diesel.
Last one left me stranded on road because the thermostat didn't open completely. No, it wasn't overheating - at all. Not even close. It's just the sensor detected the thermostat wasn't all the way open, so it shut down the engine. Sheesh.
That said, I ALSO have a 2018 F-150 w/ecoboost and couldn't be happier. It's been problem-free for 25k miles so far, and tows exceptionally well. My only complaint is that you always have to switch it into ecoboost every time you use it. You'd think it's have a memory setting, but it doesn't. Other than that, it's been terrific.
As for throw-away manufacturing - funny you mention lawn mowers. I bought a new weed eater in 2006, but had to throw it away last year. It worked perfectly fine, but they stopped making replacement line for it. Seriously.
Bought a new one last season (different brand), for less than the original, and it works better than what I had. So I suppose it's a blessing in disguise....until they stop making replacement line for it next year. LOL
Ski213 reply :
@Way2slow and @SuperDuty y’all are not making feel good about buying a newer truck. That’s the reality of it though. It wouldn’t be so bad if vehicles were priced as throw away. Some of the stupid stuff I see go
on with $60k trucks makes me a little sick. There are a lot of features that are for sure nice on newer vehicles but I’m one of those guys who is thinking of how much those things are going to cost down the road to fix. Some of them you can just leave broken but as mentioned by @Glennsometimes something that shouldn’t make much difference shuts down the whole operation. My truck could absolutely leave me sitting at any time but it’s going to be a legitimate event like no fuel, no fire, something actually comes apart, or one of the maybe 15 sensors or ecm fails. Not because the computer gets a bad reading from the windshield fluid sensor.
I’m not against technological advancements or dogging newer trucks though. Obviously I’m in the market for one.
I love the mower example. I had an old rider that I got for free and put maybe 100 bucks in to get running that would make a yard look
like a golf course. Didn’t mow at 30mph but it got the job done. It was 20 yrs old. I got tired of throwing parts at it and now I have a new one that I’m already throwing parts at 10
hrs and in all honesty is half the mower.
Way2slow reply :
I know we are getting off the original topic, but when you mention replacement parts, there is just about no such thing now days. What few parts you can find, and like you mentioned, you have something that's only a couple years old and need something for it, you find this "DISCONTINUED". What parts are available are assemblies you have to buy at some ungodly price because some two dollar part broke.
Way2slow reply :
Because of all the new technology going into vehicles today is the reason I'll probably never own another new one. I'm fortunate in that I have a degree in electronics, very computer and electronics knowledgeable. Also I am a master mechanic, and there's absolutely nothing I can't do to and automobile, so I know how to use the high dollar diagnostic equipment to trouble shoot and repair my own. I've always been one that if man made it, I can probably fix it. The problem today is it takes a very sophisticated computer system to diagnose one, the those are getting into the thousands of dollars and big bucks each year to keep them up to date.
They are making them so it's almost cost prohibitive to buy the diagnostic equipment and they are so complicated, the average mechanic can't fix them because they don't know how to trouble shoot them, and and that goes for most of the dealerships also. Same for the new high tech outboards.
Ski213 reply :
On 1/25/2020 at 12:30 PM, Way2slow said:I know we are getting off the original topic, but when you mention replacement parts, there is just about no such thing now days. What few parts you can find, and like you mentioned, you have something that's only a couple years old and need something for it, you find this "DISCONTINUED". What parts are available are assemblies you have to buy at some ungodly price because some two dollar part broke.
I’ve heard that called planned obsolescence.
I do most of the wrenching on the truck myself but I have a buddy who owns a shop. My truck was down there a couple days ago and he was telling me what they had tied up in their scanner and updates. It was crazy. Thousands of dollars. Anymore a mechanic is as much a tech as anything. Vehicles are getting like computers and phones where by the time you buy the technology has been replaced.
SuperDuty reply :
On 1/25/2020 at 10:46 AM, Glenn said:Whelp, I have an F-450 diesel and it's convinced me to never get a diesel again. Don't get me wrong, it pulls like no other...fantastic tow vehicle. But the super-high maintenance of a diesel combined with the fact it "breaks down" (reduces power) when the even slightest thing isn't perfect has left me with expensive maintenance and repair bills...and stranded on the road while towing more than a few times. Lot's of towing bills and expensive repairs because, ya know, it's a diesel.
Last one left me stranded on road because the thermostat didn't open completely. No, it wasn't overheating - at all. Not even close. It's just the sensor detected the thermostat wasn't all the way open, so it shut down the engine. Sheesh.
That said, I ALSO have a 2018 F-150 w/ecoboost and couldn't be happier. It's been problem-free for 25k miles so far, and tows exceptionally well. My only complaint is that you always have to switch it into ecoboost every time you use it. You'd think it's have a memory setting, but it doesn't. Other than that, it's been terrific.
As for throw-away manufacturing - funny you mention lawn mowers. I bought a new weed eater in 2006, but had to throw it away last year. It worked perfectly fine, but they stopped making replacement line for it. Seriously.
Bought a new one last season (different brand), for less than the original, and it works better than what I had. So I suppose it's a blessing in disguise....until they stop making replacement line for it next year. LOL
I hate diesels and wouldn't own one if I didn't need it. Although that new Ford 7.3 gasser sure looks appealing for my needs.
SuperDuty reply :
On 1/25/2020 at 12:27 PM, Ski213 said:@Way2slow and @SuperDuty y’all are not making feel good about buying a newer truck. That’s the reality of it though. It wouldn’t be so bad if vehicles were priced as throw away. Some of the stupid stuff I see go
on with $60k trucks makes me a little sick. There are a lot of features that are for sure nice on newer vehicles but I’m one of those guys who is thinking of how much those things are going to cost down the road to fix. Some of them you can just leave broken but as mentioned by @Glennsometimes something that shouldn’t make much difference shuts down the whole operation. My truck could absolutely leave me sitting at any time but it’s going to be a legitimate event like no fuel, no fire, something actually comes apart, or one of the maybe 15 sensors or ecm fails. Not because the computer gets a bad reading from the windshield fluid sensor.
I’m not against technological advancements or dogging newer trucks though. Obviously I’m in the market for one.
I love the mower example. I had an old rider that I got for free and put maybe 100 bucks in to get running that would make a yard look
like a golf course. Didn’t mow at 30mph but it got the job done. It was 20 yrs old. I got tired of throwing parts at it and now I have a new one that I’m already throwing parts at 10
hrs and in all honesty is half the mower.
The EcoBoost are great trucks, they really are. My brother in law is a master mechanic at Ford and says the turbos have very little issues which I wouldn't see why they would. Ford has been using turbos on their trucks for a very long time. I've got 110k miles on my Superduty turbo without a hiccup. The lady at work who manages our fleet says the EcoBoost have been some of the most problem free trucks we've had. And all the guys love the power they produce.
I'm not brand loyal, I always buy whatever truck I like. You'll have issues with every manufacturer, as nothing is ever 100% problem free. Do your research on anything. The older dodge trucks had major transmissions issues, Ford diesels had head gasket issues, toyota has issues, Chevy had their issues. Pick a handful of trucks you're interested in and research what common issues they have to eliminate the ones that are more serious.
If I were going to buy a new truck today just for every day driving, I'd definitely have to give the new z71 chevy a hard look just because IMO it's the best looking truck on the road. But I certainly wouldn't be afraid of the F150 either.
I mean look at this bad boy!
Ohio Archer reply :
I “upgraded” and downsized at the same time. I had an ‘03 GMC Sierra with a 5.3 but purchased a ‘18 Chevy Colorado with a 2.8 turbo diesel. Tow rating is 7700# which is way more than my Skeeter. Tows great, exceptional fuel mileage towing and unloaded. It’s been a good truck so far. 34,500 miles in two years. It’s my first diesel and has done everything I’ve needed it to do.
SuperDuty reply :
On 1/26/2020 at 1:23 AM, Ohio Archer said:I “upgraded” and downsized at the same time. I had an ‘03 GMC Sierra with a 5.3 but purchased a ‘18 Chevy Colorado with a 2.8 turbo diesel. Tow rating is 7700# which is way more than my Skeeter. Tows great, exceptional fuel mileage towing and unloaded. It’s been a good truck so far. 34,500 miles in two years. It’s my first diesel and has done everything I’ve needed it to do.
I bet that's a nice setup with tow capacity and fuel mileage. Best of both worlds!
DanielG reply :
I'v got a 2015 F150 alt with a 5.0 V8 in it. 70,000 miles and nothing but maintenance. My tires and brakes will both get 80,000+ miles before needing replacement.
I've pulled a 14 ft V nose cargo conversion camper that is at least 4,000 lbs with absolutely no issues. no sway bars or trailer brakes needed. You don't know the weight is behind you.
That being said..my trailer is 7 ft tall. The wind resistance is a killer on mileage, but the mileage without the trailer aves 21.3 mpg. with the trailer 13.5 mpg. When I had a popup I only lost 1 mpg. So, as far as gas is concerned it's not the weight, it's the aerodynamics. A boat should be pretty good in that respect.
This is the best vehicle I've ever owned. Even topping the 2000 Tahoe I had awhile back which was pretty decent.
Regarding the electronics. I've found electronics in vehicles a positive thing to have. Way back when, the cars with barrel carbs and distributors would inevitably become worn over time.These electronic controls seem to keep the vehicle continually metered to keep it running smoothly, and they don't seem to go bad much. I'll take them over the old style any day.
These vehicles will also go into limp mode should the computers have an issue so they still work. And this truck, according to my manual will if overheating because of a radiator issue will run a short time by alternating the firing of pistons 4 on, and 4 off to keep the temperature down.... strange right?
Best vehicle I've ever owned, and it's a nice ride to boot.
slonezp reply :
On 1/25/2020 at 11:59 PM, SuperDuty said:The EcoBoost are great trucks, they really are. My brother in law is a master mechanic at Ford and says the turbos have very little issues which I wouldn't see why they would. Ford has been using turbos on their trucks for a very long time. I've got 110k miles on my Superduty turbo without a hiccup. The lady at work who manages our fleet says the EcoBoost have been some of the most problem free trucks we've had. And all the guys love the power they produce.
I'm not brand loyal, I always buy whatever truck I like. You'll have issues with every manufacturer, as nothing is ever 100% problem free. Do your research on anything. The older dodge trucks had major transmissions issues, Ford diesels had head gasket issues, toyota has issues, Chevy had their issues. Pick a handful of trucks you're interested in and research what common issues they have to eliminate the ones that are more serious.
If I were going to buy a new truck today just for every day driving, I'd definitely have to give the new z71 chevy a hard look just because IMO it's the best looking truck on the road. But I certainly wouldn't be afraid of the F150 either.
I mean look at this bad boy!
The GMC has a much nicer looking front end than the Chevy.
I also would never buy a GM product based on past experience, but that's just me.
I have no reason to buy a diesel. My brother, who is an OTR truck driver, was disappointed I didn't get one. I will say this. My SuperDuty is a 2017 with the 6.2 gas. My son bought a 2018 F150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost. He paid 10K more than I did but he has more bells and whistles. My truck rides like a truck and handles like a truck. I haven't driven his truck but I've been a passenger. The Ecoboost has some get up and go. The interior is also very roomy. I don't know how it tows, but overall, I think it's a real nice truck and the ride is much more comfortable than my SuperDuty.
SuperDuty reply :
On 1/26/2020 at 8:00 AM, slonezp said:The GMC has a much nicer looking front end than the Chevy.
I also would never buy a GM product based on past experience, but that's just me.
I have no reason to buy a diesel. My brother, who is an OTR truck driver, was disappointed I didn't get one. I will say this. My SuperDuty is a 2017 with the 6.2 gas. My son bought a 2018 F150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost. He paid 10K more than I did but he has more bells and whistles. My truck rides like a truck and handles like a truck. I haven't driven his truck but I've been a passenger. The Ecoboost has some get up and go. The interior is also very roomy. I don't know how it tows, but overall, I think it's a real nice truck and the ride is much more comfortable than my SuperDuty.
Yeah those GM trucks are very sharp too. The front end reminds me of my wife's new 4runner.
That ford 6.2 engine is well known for great reliability. If you don't need the extra pulling power of the diesel, that's the engine to have. My super duty rides like a log wagon although the 4" lift I installed on it made it ride better than the factory fx4 suspension it came with. I pull heavy with my truck regularly or I wouldn't have a diesel.
Fishing Rhino reply :
On 1/25/2020 at 10:00 AM, SuperDuty said:Everything is going that way these days. All these manufacturers do is figure out a way to make things cheaper. Nothing is built to last anymore, it's built to replace in a few years. Ever wonder why you see lawn mowers from the 70's still being used but mowers from 2010 are broken down in someone's back yard?
One of my duties in the corporate world was to figure out how to save money via process improvements (lean manufacturing). Things like measuring how many steps it would take to perform a task and how to reduce it.
It's not just Ford, it's every single one of them....I can give you a comparable story for Dodge, Chevy, Toyota, Nissan etc.
Hmmmm. You can have all the cars of the bygone era. If you had a car or truck that hit 100,000 miles it was an exceptional vehicle. They all started burning oil by the time they had 30,000 miles on them. Replace points, condenser, and rotors at ten thousand miles and spark plugs as well.
Now, spark plugs don't get changed until you reach 100,000 miles. Shall we talk about the rust buckets of yesteryear. Today's vehicles have it all over those of yesteryear. You rarely see a vehicle leaving a plume of smoke behind. They were common place fifty or sixty years ago..
Once upon a time I thought the old cars were better. They were made of manly steel. Rattles and wind noise were common. When you consider the systems in today's autos, it amazes me that you can go down the road without something acting up. Instead, they go for years, and with regular maintenance and a little tender loving car you can get many thousand miles of carefree driving.
Oh and shall we talk about the oil leaks of those old cars. You could tell where they had been parked. Puddles from the rear end, the transmission, and the engine left their evidence.
And one more thing. Exhaust systems. When was the last time you had the car in the shop for mufflers, resonators, and tail pipes. Midas Muffler is now called Midas Auto Car or something like that.
"Midas : Brakes, Tires, Oil Change, All of Your Auto Repair ...
Midas offers complete auto care for your vehicle. Whether it’s time for your next factory recommended maintenance visit, a routine oil change, new tires, or repair services on your brakes, muffler and exhaust, suspension, air conditioner, or any other mechanical or electrical component of your car, Midas is in your neighborhood and ready to serve you"
As a disclaimer, I started driving in the mid 1950s. They were saying the same things then. They don't make 'em like they used to was said back in the good ol' days. They were wrong back in those days, and they are wrong today.
Scott F reply :
I have to agree with Fishing Rhino. My new F150 gets twice the gas mileage of my first tow vehicle. Back up cameras that make hooking up my trailer a breeze and Apple Car Play lets me use my phone for in dash navigation and hundreds of hours of uninterrupted music are fantastic and not even a dream on cars or trucks from just a few years ago. Oil changes every 7500 miles. The technology has come so far and for the most part has made cars much more reliable with less maintenance than ever before. Yes they are now too complicated for back yard mechanics to work on, but the improvements outweigh the down sides.
Way2slow reply :
I've got nothing against technology. Like said, back in the 60's and 70's, a car with 100,000 miles was consider the exception, and ready for the grave yard. Today, 400,000 on many of them is not out of the question.
Other than the VW bug, there weren't many carburetor engines getting 30mpg. Not many full size cars getting 16 and mid size getting 20. Today, those are all gas guzzlers, and who would have ever thought a few years ago they would ever own a full size truck with any kind of an engine getting over 20, and now the V8's are doing it.
The thing that bothers me is all this other high tech stuff they are going to. Today, you need a very specialized computer that will communicate with the computer that's communicating with a couple of other computers.
You already have the ECM communicating with the Anti-lock brake computer, the transmission computer, the body computer, that's communicating with a half dozen other computers. Now they are adding in all this anti collision stuff, automatic parking and backing, and who knows what all.
This all just makes a vehicle extremely expensive to maintain. A lot of this stuff they are going to, the are going proprietary with and only the dealers are going to the diagnostic equipment, and to keep it where their average mechanic can trouble shoot and repair it, it's all going modular so the whole assembly is replaced. $500 - $1000 to replace a burned out headlamp is already here in some vehicles.
Fishing Rhino reply :
I didn't even make one of the most important of the old vs new. Safety.
I do/did agree with the technology stuff. I used to do all my maintenance on my car. I enjoyed tinkering, but when they came out with computer controlled engines, that day ended. No pulling apart a distributor to check the points. The vehicle had to be digitally analyzed. I thought great, this is going to be a nightmare, and service would cost a fortune.
Turned out I was wrong. The biggest problem and most common solution for the "check engine light" was the O2 sensor that had kicked the bucket.
I remember when the PCVs first came out in cars, positive crankcase ventilation, where blowby was sucked into the carburetor, burned, and out through the exhaust. Prior to that, blowby exited the vehicle through a "breather". When an engine got enough wear, the engine went on an anti rust campaign and the engine along with other components got covered with a film of oil, which then collected dust and the engine became a slimy mess. Leaking rocker arm cover gaskets would start seeping oil. Sometimes just tightening the bolts would stop, or at least, slow down the oil exiting at the gaskets.
Open the hood, do a ten or fifteen minute repair job and then spend a half hour scrubbing with lava soap or something similar to get the grease out from under your finger nails. In fact, as I recall you would find a fingernail scrubbing brush on the sink in most homes. 20 mule team Borax was another standby for removing grease. May as well have used 80 grit sandpaper.
Garages made a small fortune steam cleaning engines and the engine compartment, and the drive train.
SuperDuty reply :
I didn't mean reliability, mainly just overall build quality. Things have been drastically cheapened up. Look at a brake rotor from the 80's and one from today. Ever wonder why you don't get your rotors turned anymore? Or the size of an axle of yesterday compared to one today? And the rust issue is most definitely still there.
Reliability has come a long way but that isn't just because they're building better parts. It's because of a few different things like the quality of oil we use, fuel injection, sensors that are constantly monitoring and readjusting, diagnostics that notify us when there is an issue so we can address before it gets worse.
Vehicles have gotten more reliable but IMO overall build quality isn't what it use to be.
Safety is no doubt much better.
The technology is two fold. These new cars will pretty much narrow down what's wrong for you. A OBD2 bluetooth adapter off of Amazon is $20 and will tell you so many things. I use use that and the free Forscan app, and can pretty much do any diagnostics under the sun on any Ford. Heck it told me exactly which injector was bad. It'll read every sensor in my truck and tell me the values. It gives a back yard mechanic like myself to do my own work. But electronic components/software can be difficult to diagnose too.
Yesterdays autos were so very simple to work on. Air fuel spark were all ya needed to know and only had a handful of things to contend with. Today though, it's air, fuel, spark, technology.
I started off in life as a licensed electrician and then moved into IT and spent 24 years in that field so technology and electronics is something I know very very well. I'm not at all intimidated by the technology of these new rides but I also appreciate the ease of repair of the old 70s trucks and Jeeps I use to wheel around.
I still do any and all repairs on my rides. Try replacing an intake on a modern truck. What use to be a 2 hour job now takes 10 hours from all the dang electronic crap ya gotta deal with. I did that last winter on my other Ford. It took me an entire Saturday just to replace one injector on my super duty.
bassfisher444 reply :
On 1/25/2020 at 9:01 AM, Ski213 said:@bassfisher444 curious why you would avoid the eco boost trucks. If I went the F150 route I’m primarily looking at the 5.0 but here there seem to be a lot more of the eco boost trucks. I have some concern with the replacement costs for the turbos but was wondering why you mentioned avoiding them.
They are great for perfomace but they aren't good for long term reliability. If you are the kind of person who gets rid of their vehicle when it gets over 100K then an ecoboost is probably fine, but if you want to buy used and keep the truck for another 80-100K, sooner or later your going to have a huge repair bill. Even basic maintinace like changing the oil is a pain to do on an Ecoboost. The V8 is far more simple, easier to work on, lasts longer and sounds better.
SuperDuty reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 1:35 AM, bassfisher444 said:They are great for perfomace but they aren't good for long term reliability. If you are the kind of person who gets rid of their vehicle when it gets over 100K then an ecoboost is probably fine, but if you want to buy used and keep the truck for another 80-100K, sooner or later your going to have a huge repair bill. Even basic maintinace like changing the oil is a pain to do on an Ecoboost. The V8 is far more simple, easier to work on, lasts longer and sounds better.
I suppose you've heard that somewhere and just repeating it? Either way, that simply just isn't true and there is factual data out there that disproves this statement. Sure, every component on a truck will need replacement "eventually" but to say it won't last to 180-200k miles is pure hogwash.
And there are lots of components that can go out on any 200k mile truck that would be as costly as a turbo such as a tranny, differential, head gasket, and the list goes on and on.
the oil change is a little more difficult but it's not a big deal. It takes me two hours to change the oil on my wife's 2019 4runner due to having to remove all the skid plates to reach the filter. That certainly didn't intimidate me from buying her what she wanted.
The EcoBoost has way more power than the v8, gets much better gas mileage, and tows a great deal better. The EcoBoost can and will last as long as the V8 with proper maintenance. Our fleet trucks aren't swapped out until they reach 200k.
Sound is subjective as my 74 year old dad doesn't want to hear his trucks exhaust nor does my wife. Many people feel that way.
moguy1973 reply :
I have a 2.7l ecoboost F150 and it doesn’t even know my 175 tracker is behind it. Handles great and gas mileage only goes down about 3MPG when towing it. I know my tracker is a lot lighter than the OPs boat but bumping up to the 3.5l ecoboost would take care if that. The 3.5l are great towing engines. Don’t let the small displacement with turbos scare you away.
On 1/27/2020 at 1:35 AM, bassfisher444 said:They are great for perfomace but they aren't good for long term reliability. If you are the kind of person who gets rid of their vehicle when it gets over 100K then an ecoboost is probably fine, but if you want to buy used and keep the truck for another 80-100K, sooner or later your going to have a huge repair bill. Even basic maintinace like changing the oil is a pain to do on an Ecoboost. The V8 is far more simple, easier to work on, lasts longer and sounds better.
I know the 3.5L ecoboost oil changes are a little more involved but my 2.7L ecoboost is the easiest oil change I’ve even done on a vehicle. If I didn’t have to take off a skid plate that covers the oil pan it would take me about 20 minutes to change the oil. The oil filter is a canister style filter and it’s on the top of the engine and I don’t even need a tool to remove the oil plug since it’s a composite pan and the plug is made of plastic. It’s also the cleanest oil change I’ve ever done. No messy oil going everywhere when I take the filter out.
bassfisher444 reply :
My uncle has an ecoboost with less than 80K on it and has had nothing but problems with it, he already had to have the engine replaced once and it wasn't under warranty. A couple other guys I know have had the ecoboost and both got rid of them because they were at the dealer all the time for repairs, my dad testdrove a brand new one and it broke down on him and had to be towed back to the dealer. I know some people have good luck with them but based on the ones I have worked on and experiences from people I know I wouldn't have one. The V8s seem to have far less problems.
SuperDuty reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 2:59 AM, bassfisher444 said:My uncle has an ecoboost with less than 80K on it and has had nothing but problems with it, he already had to have the engine replaced once and it wasn't under warranty. A couple other guys I know have had the ecoboost and both got rid of them because they were at the dealer all the time for repairs, my dad testdrove a brand new one and it broke down on him and had to be towed back to the dealer. I know some people have good luck with them but based on the ones I have worked on and experiences from people I know I wouldn't have one. The V8s seem to have far less problems.
Lol well of course!
bassfisher444 reply :
On 1/26/2020 at 10:11 AM, Fishing Rhino said:Hmmmm. You can have all the cars of the bygone era. If you had a car or truck that hit 100,000 miles it was an exceptional vehicle. They all started burning oil by the time they had 30,000 miles on them. Replace points, condenser, and rotors at ten thousand miles and spark plugs as well.
What era are you talking about? I have a Jeep 4.0 ( an engine design that dates back to the 60s) with almost 250,000 miles on it that still has excellent compression and doesn't use any oil between 5K oil change intervals, same goes for my 7.3 Powerstroke with 170,000 on it. As a mechanic I have seen several Jeep 4.0, Ford 300 I6, 302, 351 and 460 V8s, Dodge 318, 360, and GM 305, 350, and 454 engines with 200K or more that still have good compression and don't burn any oil, all of those engines were designed in the 60s-70s and used all the way up to the late 90s or early 2000s. Its the newer engines that have issues with excessive oil consumption, Ford, Chrysler and GM have all had quite a few recalls in the past 10 years because of excessive oil consumption in their engines.
19 hours ago, Fishing Rhino said:
DanielG reply :
You could work on older vehicles, they were simpler but at 100k in mileage you had to think about a new one because by about 130-140k it would need a lot of work and/or the frame would be ready to break in half from rust (in the rust belt anyway).
Today, you don't often have any issues till 100k or later, then you tweak a few things for yes some $$. And get ready for the second 100k instead of having to sell it to the junker guy for $400.
I've had cars since 1970 and I've been able to keep them longer with less trouble in the last few than all the others combined..... except that 2003 silverado.... So many issues. I hated that vehicle. Payed for it twice with repairs.
Today I can't work on them much, but I don't have to like in the older ones.
slonezp reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 2:59 AM, bassfisher444 said:My uncle has an ecoboost with less than 80K on it and has had nothing but problems with it, he already had to have the engine replaced once and it wasn't under warranty. A couple other guys I know have had the ecoboost and both got rid of them because they were at the dealer all the time for repairs, my dad testdrove a brand new one and it broke down on him and had to be towed back to the dealer. I know some people have good luck with them but based on the ones I have worked on and experiences from people I know I wouldn't have one. The V8s seem to have far less problems.
There is no replacement for displacement. Also, how many 1/2 ton trucks are sold as daily drivers and not work trucks? Quite a few. The disadvantage of a 1/2 ton truck is the extra mileage and EPA regulations the government puts on them. Maybe they are well deserved because, let's face it, a ton of them are used as grocery getters. IMO an educated buyer will research the purchase. A smaller displacement engine might be a great option for a guy driving limited miles with limited payload. I think if you are towing weekly or more often, a V8 is the ticket.
SuperDuty reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 7:03 AM, slonezp said:There is no replacement for displacement. Also, how many 1/2 ton trucks are sold as daily drivers and not work trucks? Quite a few. The disadvantage of a 1/2 ton truck is the extra mileage and EPA regulations the government puts on them. Maybe they are well deserved because, let's face it, a ton of them are used as grocery getters. IMO an educated buyer will research the purchase. A smaller displacement engine might be a great option for a guy driving limited miles with limited payload. I think if you are towing weekly or more often, a V8 is the ticket.
That's an old saying and doesn't hold true anymore. The replacement for displacement is actually technology and turbos are one of them. The EcoBoost pulls much better than their V8 counterpart. That's a fact.
bassfisher444 reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 7:33 AM, SuperDuty said:That's an old saying and doesn't hold true anymore. The replacement for displacement is actually technology and turbos are one of them. The EcoBoost pulls much better than their V8 counterpart. That's a fact.
That's only because the Ecoboost has turbos, a twin turbo 5.0 V8 will stomp a V6 Ecoboost, and yes they do sell twin turbo kits for the 5.0.
slonezp reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 7:33 AM, SuperDuty said:That's an old saying and doesn't hold true anymore. The replacement for displacement is actually technology and turbos are one of them. The EcoBoost pulls much better than their V8 counterpart. That's a fact.
I'm not knocking the Ecoboost as an everyday driver. Will it put up with everyday payloads and towing as well as a V8, I doubt it. No different than a gas V8 not standing the test of time of high mileage and high payloads like a diesel. There is a time and a place for all 3 engines.
Regardless of anything, they all require maintenance. A naturally aspirated V8 will be less expensive to operate in the long run than the Ecoboost, and the diesel.
SuperDuty reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 7:40 AM, bassfisher444 said:That's only because the Ecoboost has turbos, a twin turbo 5.0 V8 will stomp a V6 Ecoboost, and yes they do sell twin turbo kits for the 5.0.
This conversation isn't about modifying trucks, it's about factory produced trucks.
On 1/27/2020 at 7:52 AM, slonezp said:I'm not knocking the Ecoboost as an everyday driver. Will it put up with everyday payloads and towing as well as a V8, I doubt it. No different than a gas V8 not standing the test of time of high mileage and high payloads like a diesel. There is a time and a place for all 3 engines.
Regardless of anything, they all require maintenance. A naturally aspirated V8 will be less expensive to operate in the long run than the Ecoboost, and the diesel.
I disagree. But that's ok, we can disagree with each other.
Been an interesting conversation guys but I've got no more input.
Way2slow reply :
You have to realize one thing about the internet. Take everything with a grain of salt. There is not a product made that is 100% reliable. If a manufacture can keep his failure rate to 5%, he is jumping with joy and most are happy with 10% and some are even greater than 20%.
Now those high percentage of customers that are happy with their product don't get on the internet and post how great it is and how much they love it. However, that small percentage that does have a problem will get on here in a heartbeat and bash the crap out of it. Then those that know nothing about the product read about all the problems that few percentage has and they pick up on the bashing. Making it sound like everyone ever made was junk.
That's why I always say, "only believe half of what you see, and not a dang thing of what you hear".
bassfisher444 reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 8:13 AM, SuperDuty said:This conversation isn't about modifying trucks, it's about factory produced trucks.
They do make a F150 with a factory supercharged 5.0 it's rated at 750 HP. Regardless what was said before about there is no replacement for displacement still holds true, a 3.5 liter Ecoboost making 15 psi of boost basically makes it equivalent to a 7 liter naturally aspirated engine.
slonezp reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 8:27 AM, Way2slow said:You have to realize one thing about the internet. Take everything with a grain of salt. There is not a product made that is 100% reliable. If a manufacture can keep his failure rate to 5%, he is jumping with joy and most are happy with 10% and some are even greater than 20%.
Now those high percentage of customers that are happy with their product don't get on the internet and post how great it is and how much they love it. However, that small percentage that does have a problem will get on here in a heartbeat and bash the crap out of it. Then those that know nothing about the product read about all the problems that few percentage has and they pick up on the bashing. Making it sound like everyone ever made was junk.
That's why I always say, "only believe half of what you see, and not a dang thing of what you hear".
I was sold on the Toyota Kool-Aid when I bought my Tundra in December of 2007. After owning Dodge and Ford trucks and driving GM trucks for work, I figured Toyota had their **** together after such a long successful run with their mid sized pick up. I was wrong. The Toyota had as many or more issues as the Dodge I traded in for it, although most were minor compared to the Dodge. I traded the Toyota in after 10 years with 200k miles on it and I'd bet the engine would get another 200k out of it. Unfortunately, I put 6 grand into it the last 2 years of ownership just to keep it on the road. That doesn't include the electrical gremlins and the bed rusted thru.
You can't get a new (Big 3) 1/2 ton for under $30K nowadays and that would limit you to to a single cab work truck. Add 4 doors onto that and you're at $35k for a basic truck with zero upgrades. I could get a real nice car for $35k
Way2slow reply :
Just a question, not disagreeing. Don't turbocharged and super charged engines require premium, high octane gas, at about 40 cents more per gallon. Boosting compression increases fuel economy as far as miles per gallon, but is it saving you anything if you are having to pay 20% more for the fuel it takes to run it. Like a diesel today, yes, they get better fuel mileage, but since having gone to sulfur free fuel, the cost per gallon pretty much offset that additional fuel mileage, dollars spent at the pump can be close to the same.
Like the VW Beetle convertible of my wife's, yea, it gets 30mpg, but is supposed to be run of 91 octane. Her Highlander, a whole bunch bigger and more comfortable to drive gets 25mpg and runs 87 octane. Take a trip and both are going to cost close to the same, but traveling is a whole lot nicer in the Highlander.
DanielG reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 9:48 AM, Way2slow said:Just a question, not disagreeing. Don't turbocharged and super charged engines require premium, high octane gas, at about 40 cents more per gallon. Boosting compression increases fuel economy as far as miles per gallon, but is it saving you anything if you are having to pay 20% more for the fuel it takes to run it. Like a diesel today, yes, they get better fuel mileage, but since having gone to sulfur free fuel, the cost per gallon pretty much offset that additional fuel mileage, dollars spent at the pump can be close to the same.
Like the VW Beetle convertible of my wife's, yea, it gets 30mpg, but is supposed to be run of 91 octane. Her Highlander, a whole bunch bigger and more comfortable to drive gets 25mpg and runs 87 octane. Take a trip and both are going to cost close to the same, but traveling is a whole lot nicer in the Highlander.
I don't think so. My son in laws Subaru has a turbo in it and he has to use high octane fuel. But he considers it a little muscle car. I have a Ford V8 but I can't imagine all their other engines, being ecoboosts taking high octane fuel. I'm almost positive they're standard octane.
DanielG reply :
Re: Turbo Fords.
When I bought my f150 in 2015, it was the first year of the aluminum bodies. I took a chance on that. They had also made the turbo's for a short while. I didn't take a chance on that. I got the V8. There were lots of claims of ecoboost problems at the time. I think that situation has improved markedly though. And, the turbos do have tremendous torque. Some of them out torque a V8 easily.
But.... The other reason for the V8, for me anyway. The gas mileage on the turbos was better... overall. And it is better, until you step on the gas and engage the turbocharger. It drops dramatically. When do you have to do that? When you tow. I'd imagine it's running all the time while towing. especially under load on a hill. I tow a lot with a camper. Not many times a year but when I do it's 5000 miles or more at a time.
The gas mileage while under load of an ecoboost engine is not good. It pulls like crazy, but at a cost. And the idea of using a turbocharger to wind up and get more out of an engine than it normally would be able to doesn't appeal to me. Naturally aspirated is heavier and possibly more sluggish than an ecoboost but I trust it.
An ecoboost engine that runs without the turbo most of the time except maybe when you want to pass a car or do some ocassional towing will get great gas mileage. When My V8 tows some weight, the gas mileage changes just a little. So, overall in that situation my gas mileage, in my understanding from friends and relatives who have the ecoboost, is just as good overall as theirs is if they did the weight pulling that I do.
Upon my next truck, If all Ford has is ecoboosts, I think I'd have to pass this time.
Here is a video from a few years ago about technicians and engine choices. Remember it's a few years old now.
Bird reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 5:56 AM, bassfisher444 said:What era are you talking about? I have a Jeep 4.0 ( an engine design that dates back to the 60s) with almost 250,000 miles on it that still has excellent compression and doesn't use any oil between 5K oil change intervals, same goes for my 7.3 Powerstroke with 170,000 on it. As a mechanic I have seen several Jeep 4.0, Ford 300 I6, 302, 351 and 460 V8s, Dodge 318, 360, and GM 305, 350, and 454 engines with 200K or more that still have good compression and don't burn any oil, all of those engines were designed in the 60s-70s and used all the way up to the late 90s or early 2000s. Its the newer engines that have issues with excessive oil consumption, Ford, Chrysler and GM have all had quite a few recalls in the past 10 years because of excessive oil consumption in their engines.
That's not playing fair comparing the longevity of the 4.0 with anything built today.
Like comparing steel to plastic. Lol
Ski213 reply :
It’s my understanding that with the eco boost there are performance and fuel efficiency gains to be had running higher octane fuel but that it’s not necessary. When it comes to turbos and super chargers I have very little knowledge. I understand the concept but it’s not something I have real world experience with.
If I do some rough math with fuel prices from today, on a 500 mile trip it’s a wash. That’s figuring 12 mpg for my truck (probably being generous) on 87 and a vehicle at 15 mpg on premium. The 15 is prob a little low from what I understand.
I really appreciate everybody who has weighed in on this. It is for sure helpful. How well the truck gets the boat moving is important to
me but the biggest concern I have is controlling it with an unexpected stop or a quick turn. Best thing I can do I guess is hook it up to these different trucks and see how it feels. I have a newer Chevy 6.0 and Ford 5.0 I can hook up that belong to friends so I just need to find a dealer that’ll let me hook to a 3.5. And maybe a dealer that’ll let me hook to a gas F250.
Thanks again and keep
the input coming.
DINK WHISPERER reply :
What's all this talk of complicated oil changes in EcoBoost vehicles!? I just bought my wife a new 2019 edge ST a few months ago. Oil changes on it are no worse than any other vehicle I've ever done. 
SuperDuty reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 11:41 AM, Ski213 said:It’s my understanding that with the eco boost there are performance and fuel efficiency gains to be had running higher octane fuel but that it’s not necessary. When it comes to turbos and super chargers I have very little knowledge. I understand the concept but it’s not something I have real world experience with.
If I do some rough math with fuel prices from today, on a 500 mile trip it’s a wash. That’s figuring 12 mpg for my truck (probably being generous) on 87 and a vehicle at 15 mpg on premium. The 15 is prob a little low from what I understand.
I really appreciate everybody who has weighed in on this. It is for sure helpful. How well the truck gets the boat moving is important to
me but the biggest concern I have is controlling it with an unexpected stop or a quick turn. Best thing I can do I guess is hook it up to these different trucks and see how it feels. I have a newer Chevy 6.0 and Ford 5.0 I can hook up that belong to friends so I just need to find a dealer that’ll let me hook to a 3.5. And maybe a dealer that’ll let me hook to a gas F250.
Thanks again and keep
the input coming.
Well heck! My vote goes to the super duty with the 6.2! ????
Seriously though, the Ford 6.2 has become legendary for reliability in the Ford community. A very good engine.
DanielG reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 11:41 AM, Ski213 said:
If I do some rough math with fuel prices from today, on a 500 mile trip it’s a wash. That’s figuring 12 mpg for my truck (probably being generous) on 87 and a vehicle at 15 mpg on premium. The 15 is prob a little low from what I understand.
My 2015 f150 xlt 5.0 V8 gets an avg 21.3 mpg mixed driving no towing. In the last 15k miles I'm avg 19.1 mpg. That's with regular mixed driving and the towing I do with a camper trip once and awhile. And the computer mileage matches my hand calculated mileage by two tenths mpg. So, just about the same. My previous truck a silverado v8 was about 16-18 mpg max. Older truck of course. I think maybe the aluminum body on the Ford might have something to do with it. Great truck anyway and not enough of a mileage difference to make me jump on an ecoboost. And, I embarrassingly admit it. I love the drone of a v8 when I step on the gas. It's something that I still smile about. Sad but true.
slonezp reply :
On 1/27/2020 at 7:50 PM, SuperDuty said:Well heck! My vote goes to the super duty with the 6.2! ????
Seriously though, the Ford 6.2 has become legendary for reliability in the Ford community. A very good engine.
First thing I did before considering the 6.2 was talk to my sons buddy's dad, who is a Ford mechanic. Said the 6.2 is extremely reliable and has zero inherent issues. The up and coming 7.3 gasser looks to be a beast
bassfisher444 reply :
On 1/28/2020 at 7:38 AM, slonezp said:First thing I did before considering the 6.2 was talk to my sons buddy's dad, who is a Ford mechanic. Said the 6.2 is extremely reliable and has zero inherent issues. The up and coming 7.3 gasser looks to be a beast
Yes the 6.2 has proven to be very reliable, they even put it in the f150 for a few years 11-14 I believe.
DogBone_384 reply :
On 1/23/2020 at 12:09 PM, Ski213 said:all bets are off at 18 yrs old and 1/4 million miles as far as my confidence towing long distance
Have you done all the PM on the drivetrain, and/or ever done a compression check? If 'YES' is your answer to both, and the compression is good, I'd drive it no questions asked. 250K+ isn't much for modern drivetrains these days if they're properly maintained.
I can't help you with towing between 3/4 and 1/2 ton trucks. My Tundras towed a couple trailers and bass boats flawlessly. My current Tundra's towing capacity is just over 9,000 pounds.
If you buy a new truck, I'll only say that I've owned Toyota trucks for the last 20 years and in over half a million miles, total, I've NEVER repaired one.
Best of luck with your trucks.
On 1/27/2020 at 11:13 AM, Bird said:Jeep 4.0
BEST motor ... evah!
slonezp reply :
On 1/28/2020 at 10:07 AM, DogBone_384 said:Have you done
If you buy a new truck, I'll only say that I've owned Toyota trucks for the last 20 years and in over half a million miles, total, I've NEVER repaired one.
You fared better than I did. I traded in my Tundra with 200k that I bought new in 2007. Repairs included front differential rebuilt, radio replaced twice, bumpers replaced twice, radiator replaced twice, water pump, shock and struts, u joints replaced twice, parking brake and linkage replaced. Drivers seat base broke. A harmonic noise at low speeds that no one could pinpoint. It had electrical gremlins the last year of ownership and the bed had rusted through from the bottom up. The transmission hunted with the trailer connected and motor always seemed to be running at higher rpms than it should have with the boat in tow.
The engine could have probably gone another 200k, but what good is that if the rest of the truck had problems.
SuperDuty reply :
Yeah for the past several years, the Tacoma's have had significant issues to the point many diehard yotam fans were jumping ship. Thankfully, the toyota 4runner is made in Japan and shares none of the issues the Tacoma has. Otherwise I wouldn't have just bought the new 4runner for the wifey. For her, it was between the 4runner or an F150. She's a speed demon and was blown away when she drove the EcoBoost. Man that thing is FAST!
And that Ford 7.3 gasser is looking to be one nice engine. I think it'll prove to be just as reliable as the 6.2 and will have towing capabilities close to the diesels. That may be my next truck as I'm sick of the constant costly repairs and maintenance of the diesels. One oil change costs me $140 doing it myself.
Back in the day I was a huge jeep head and have built many sweet jeeps in my time. The Jeep 4.0 was an amazing engine. They were soooooo stupid to stop making it.
DogBone_384 reply :
On 1/28/2020 at 6:23 PM, slonezp said:You fared better than I did.
Sorry to hear. I hope that when you replaced the radio for the second time it was an Alpine!
I've worked on almost every manufacturer out there, including Porsche, Ferrari, and old Jags (with Lucas' electrical systems). I've always known Toyota and Honda as the most bulletproof cars/trucks out there, my own vehicles included.
Maybe you got one made on a Friday afternoon ....
Way2slow reply :
Back before time began, I drove Ford. In 1969 I bought a 69 Charger R/T with the 426 Hemi. In 13 months, the rear end was whining, transmission was jumping out of gear, the front ball joints were shot, the engine was smoking and using oil, and the seat covers were splitting at the seams and had constant electrical problems, that was my one and only MoPar, went back to Fords. In 1976 I went to Italy for several years where I got a Ferrari 308 and my a Porsche 911, (some good stories behind those but not getting into) and a Fiat 850 to run around in. Shipped the Porsche back and drove it along with my 73 Bronco I kept while overseas. In 86 we bought our first Chevy, 1986 Astro Van with all the bells and whistles. In 1990 I went to Sicily and took the Van over and shipped it back with us and continued to drive it. My wife loved that van, drove it for 300,000 miles and other than normal maintenance, oil changes, transmission fluid changes, brakes, shocks, tires etc, I replaced the TPS, AC compressor and alternator, was the only maintenance ever done on it. I sold it in Warner Robins and still see it running around from time to time. In 2001, bought the first Toyota, 2001 Camry. In 2006 we gave that one to our daughter (who later totaled it) and bought a 2006 Rav4 year end closeout deal, hated that one, way too small, so traded it for a 2007 High Lander. Three deer did a number on it so we traded it for a 2008 Highlander. Still drive the 2008, has 196,000 miles and other than normal service, one set of spark plugs, and one set of brake pads, never had a minutes trouble with it. Still cleans up to look almost new, wife likes it and has no desire to trade it.
Now, those were our primary vehicles, I had a number other vehicles mixed in with those, several front wheel drive Fords until I finally said I would never own another, and one Thunderbird my wife bought without even asking me. She got shafted and learned her lesson on that one. I've been driving Toyota pickups since 1988 and still driving my 1993 4WD. Several 4WD Chevy pickups and a couple of Vans, still driving a 2500HD, (when towing the boat). Plus a mix of other vehicles like the VW Beetle and 2003 Century.
Dang near had as many vehicles as I have had boats.
SuperDuty reply :
Lol I hear ya. in 30 years of driving, I've owned well over 100 different vehicles, probably much more than 100. I use to get bored with them very quickly and sell or trade them off. I've owned everything with the exception of exotics. I was a jeep and toyota fan back in the days of being an offroader. Owned many Tacoma's in those times and other than the serious rust issues, they were bullet proof. Once we bought the wife's new 4runner, I started hanging out in the Toyota forums a lot reading and learning. I was very surprised to see all the guys there complaining about the reliability of the toyota trucks the past few years. Definitely wasn't the norm for Toyotas products. The 4runners, unlike the Tacoma's sre still manufactured in Japan so they don't share the same issues. My uncle was VP of the toyota manufacturing plant in Southern Indiana until he passed a few years ago so it was always a topic in the family.
Toyotas definitely hold their resale. My dad has owned two new Tacoma's in the past 5 years. The last one, a 2018 model, he sold it for $1500 less than what he paid for it off the lot. Granted, he's old and doesn't drive much. But only lost $1500 on a sale of a 1 year old truck. I'm hoping we get the same deal when we trade in the wifeys 4runner next summer.
My son in law drives a 2020 Chevy 2500 with 3k miles on it. this morning on the way to work it started knocking very bad and a CEL came on. He got it to the chevy dealer and I picked him up. They called him this afternoon and informed him that it had a broken rocker arm. Surprisingly, they fixed it rather quickly and I took him to get it at 5:30 this evening. I was impressed with how fast they fixed it and it wasn't even the dealership that sold it. Hopefully it was just a fluke thing.
VolFan reply :
I have been driving a '06 4Runner with the small V-8 (4.7?) in it for 11 years now. Have replaced the suspension and a few odds and ends from normal wear and tear, but its a great all-around vehicle for fishing, lighter towing, and road trips with family and dog. I may have it forever.
SuperDuty reply :
On 1/29/2020 at 11:06 AM, VolFan said:I have been driving a '06 4Runner with the small V-8 (4.7?) in it for 11 years now. Have replaced the suspension and a few odds and ends from normal wear and tear, but its a great all-around vehicle for fishing, lighter towing, and road trips with family and dog. I may have it forever.
I've got brand new coil springs and shocks, front and rear that only have 100 miles on them before I put her lift kit on. They're just sitting in the shop collecting dust. I probably should sell it all. They're for the TRD offroad premium
Fishing Rhino reply :
On 1/29/2020 at 8:42 AM, Way2slow said:Back before time began, I drove Ford. In 1969 I bought a 69 Charger R/T with the 426 Hemi. In 13 months, the rear end was whining, transmission was jumping out of gear, the front ball joints were shot, the engine was smoking and using oil, and the seat covers were splitting at the seams and had constant electrical problems, that was my one and only MoPar, went back to Fords. In 1976 I went to Italy for several years where I got a Ferrari 308 and my a Porsche 911, (some good stories behind those but not getting into) and a Fiat 850 to run around in. Shipped the Porsche back and drove it along with my 73 Bronco I kept while overseas. In 86 we bought our first Chevy, 1986 Astro Van with all the bells and whistles. In 1990 I went to Sicily and took the Van over and shipped it back with us and continued to drive it. My wife loved that van, drove it for 300,000 miles and other than normal maintenance, oil changes, transmission fluid changes, brakes, shocks, tires etc, I replaced the TPS, AC compressor and alternator, was the only maintenance ever done on it. I sold it in Warner Robins and still see it running around from time to time. In 2001, bought the first Toyota, 2001 Camry. In 2006 we gave that one to our daughter (who later totaled it) and bought a 2006 Rav4 year end closeout deal, hated that one, way too small, so traded it for a 2007 High Lander. Three deer did a number on it so we traded it for a 2008 Highlander. Still drive the 2008, has 196,000 miles and other than normal service, one set of spark plugs, and one set of brake pads, never had a minutes trouble with it. Still cleans up to look almost new, wife likes it and has no desire to trade it.
Now, those were our primary vehicles, I had a number other vehicles mixed in with those, several front wheel drive Fords until I finally said I would never own another, and one Thunderbird my wife bought without even asking me. She got shafted and learned her lesson on that one. I've been driving Toyota pickups since 1988 and still driving my 1993 4WD. Several 4WD Chevy pickups and a couple of Vans, still driving a 2500HD, (when towing the boat). Plus a mix of other vehicles like the VW Beetle and 2003 Century.
Dang near had as many vehicles as I have had boats.
Sounds like you used the charger in tractor pulls.
slonezp reply :
On 2/4/2020 at 6:09 AM, Fishing Rhino said:Sounds like you used the charger in tractor pulls.
A little sawdust in the Mopar rear end would get rid of the whining
Ratherbefishing75 reply :
Just my 2 cents I am a certified master technician and I get to fix them all what you buy should all depend on what you like I see more problems with fords and dodges then I do with chevys and GMC with that being sed if you are going to purchase a new truck. You need to drive them and see what one feels better for you I have a 2013 GMC 2500HD with a 6.0 under the hood I use it for work I plow with it and tow my little boat with it I also tow car trailers from time to time and I know for a fact that I have exceeded the towing capacity for the truck .
If you use your truck for more Then just towing a boat then getting a 3/4 ton if a good idea but if you are only using it for going fishing then 1/2 ton will do fine
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