Hatin' on smallmouth 2024
ol'crickety reply :
If you've ever fished in Minnesota, you might have bumped against guys who hate smallmouth. They call them "scaly rats." Their hatred stems from their love of walleye, a mostly indigenous species in Minnesota, and the proliferation of smallmouth that compete with walleye.
PAbasser927 reply :
Ran into this one time fishing up in Maine as well. In the lake I was fishing, smallmouth was considered an invasive species that inhibited the native land locked salmon that most of the locals were after. I heard the locals were even known to throw them on the bank if they were caught. A shame to think since the lake is actually a great smallmouth fishery producing an abundance of 5lb+ smallies.
Team9nine reply :
Had a buddy that just got back from two weeks of walleye fishing on Vermilion (MN) say the same thing. Locals up there aren't fond of muskie stockings either
12poundbass reply :
My step dad is a walleye guy and he hates bass green and brown. He’s been stocking their pond he dug out 8 years ago with perch, gills, and walleye. I keep threatening to throw some bass in there (I won’t actually do it, I believe it’s illegal here). I like the ruffle his feathers when it comes to bass. He goes to Canada every year walleye fishing and I always tell him to land a couple big smallies for me. ????
SmallBlockMuscle reply :
8 out of 10 people I run into that fish here in MN act like walleye are the only species on earth and catching bass doesnt count
J Francho reply :
Perfect. Keep them off your fish! Let them have their Waldos.
MN Fisher reply :
Walleye are 'king' in Minnesota. in 2017, millions a year are stocked in any lake that could support them while less than 100 bass are stocked each year.
Interesting info in a report I saw...only 270 of the 2000+ lakes in MN that are considered 'walleye lakes' have a 'sustainable' walleye population - meaning that the natural breeding in the lake is higher than the catch rate. So to keep the state fish available for the 'locals' and visitors, the walleye stocking program is immense.
"What's the point?
The DNR often stocks lakes to repair ecosystems after winter kill or over fishing, but Vanderbosch said the bulk of his job involves creating walleye fisheries where they don't naturally exist. Thanks to stocking, most Minnesotans live less than half an hour from a good walleye lake. In all, there are 1,400 walleye-rich lakes in the state, only 270 of which are naturally self-sustaining. The DNR stocks the rest so people can enjoy hauling walleye into their boats."
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/05/22/what-is-fish-stocking
Todd2 reply :
I've got a buddy from Ohio that takes family trips to Canada and he said they pretty much target Wally's..Smallmouth to them are like our Drums.
FryDog62 reply :
That was the big story for years on Mille Lacs (the “Original Walleye Factory”). When the cyclical walleye population went down and the Smallmouth went up, the brownies got blamed. There were rumors of walleye fishermen catching smallies, slitting their throats and releasing them to die. Launch boats put a bounty on Smallmouth and would clean them for guests that wanted meat to take home.
But it backfired when they opened up all the Smallmouth bellies while cleaning and didn’t find any walleye fry, it was 90% crayfish, 10% perch and other non walleye minnows.
It was also also discovered later while cleaning other fish - the top 2 species that were eating walleye were crappie and you guessed it - other walleyes.
MN Fisher reply :
On 7/16/2019 at 11:20 PM, FryDog62 said:That was the big story for years on Mille Lacs (the “Original Walleye Factory”). When the cyclical walleye population went down and the Smallmouth went up, the brownies got blamed. There were rumors of walleye fishermen catching smallies, slitting their throats and releasing them to die. Launch boats put a bounty on Smallmouth and would clean them for guests that wanted meat to take home.
But it backfired when they opened up all the Smallmouth bellies while cleaning and didn’t find any walleye fry, it was 90% crayfish, 10% perch and other non walleye minnows.
It was also also discovered later while cleaning other fish - the top 2 species that were eating walleye were crappie and you guessed it - other walleyes.
I didn't hear about this, but my response to those 'eedjits' who blamed the smallies is...
ol'crickety reply :
"The DNR often stocks lakes to repair ecosystems after winter kill or over fishing, but Vanderbosch said the bulk of his job involves creating walleye fisheries where they don't naturally exist. Thanks to stocking, most Minnesotans live less than half an hour from a good walleye lake. In all, there are 1,400 walleye-rich lakes in the state, only 270 of which are naturally self-sustaining."
This begs the question: "If a fish isn't native to a lake, but to an area, does introducing that fish to that lake make it invasive?"
I think so.
J Francho reply :
It isn't invasive if they exist and are not the top game fish in the lake.
Russ E reply :
Smallies are pretty popular in Kansas,
The catfish is probably king here. To some locals, Bass are considered bait.
One other anomaly here, is sunfish are often called perch. ????
Jleebesaw reply :
Up in here in northern ny it's like that too. I know a lot of guys who get irritated about catching bass while walleye fishing. I've never heard of anybody killing the bass unless they were taking them home to eat. But I hear walleye fisherman talking about 6lb smallies like they are rock bass or something. Pretty crazy. I can't imagine not smiling ear to ear when bringing in a big old bass, even if I was targeting something else. Hell, i catch walleye while bass fishing all the time. I dont get mad. I'm happy to fry up some walleye.
Now northerns and muskie.....
Oregon Native reply :
Head out west....bass is trash there too in favor of the "Slime Rockets". Love it here in Tennessee...haven't heard much of the #@!$ talk....
TnRiver46 reply :
On 7/18/2019 at 7:56 PM, Oregon Native said:Head out west....bass is trash there too in favor of the "Slime Rockets". Love it here in Tennessee...haven't heard much of the #@!$ talk....
Only from the crappie fisherman that complain in winter when those big brown bass snap their bobber leaders! Haha
Scott F reply :
On 7/16/2019 at 11:37 PM, J Francho said:It isn't invasive if they exist and are not the top game fish in the lake.
That doesn't make any sense to me. Asian Carp are not the top game fish in any water they swim. But the were brought to this country, got loose where they don't belong and are destroying the fisheries they are now taking over.
J Francho reply :
On 7/18/2019 at 9:11 PM, Scott F said:That doesn't make any sense to me. Asian Carp are not the top game fish in any water they swim. But the were brought to this country, got loose where they don't belong and are destroying the fisheries they are now taking over.
Thus, Asian carp ARE invasive. Our lakes are NOT part of their natural range. You can't call walleye invasive to a lake that is part of their natural range, just because the DNR enhances fish stocks. That's THE specific example I was referring to.
senile1 reply :
On 7/16/2019 at 11:39 PM, Russ E said:One other anomaly here, is sunfish are often called perch. ????
I think this is a regional thing though I am not sure what states the region encompasses. It is the same in Missouri. When I was a kid using worms and a cane pole I was taught to call a sunfish a perch as well.
GeekFisher reply :
On 7/16/2019 at 10:39 PM, Todd2 said:I've got a buddy from Ohio that takes family trips to Canada and he said they pretty much target Wally's..Smallmouth to them are like our Drums.
Baby boomers here around are walleye fisherman !
Bluebasser86 reply :
I've got a lot of buddies that fish for flatheads and blues, bass are just another baitfish to them. Others that fish for walleye, white bass, wipers, and crappie a majority of the time call largemouth "green carp".
Crappie guys at one of the popular smallmouth reservoirs blame the smallmouth for the crash in the crappie population, despite them being a known cyclical fish. What's also funny is when the crappie were booming, everybody and their brother was on the lake, shoulder to shoulder and bow to stearn on the water, loading livewells, buckets, stringers, whatever they could get full of big, spawning crappie. Who knows how many thousands of crappie were prevented from reproducing, but now they're blaming the smallmouth for why there's suddenly far fewer crappie ????♂️
AlTheFisherman313 reply :
Thank god we don’t have this problem on lake st. Clair. I’d trip out if someone slit a Smallmouths throat and threw it overboard.
Michigan has blessed fishing grounds. My only complaint is our LMB do not get big enough haha
ol'crickety reply :
On 7/19/2019 at 12:31 PM, Bluebasser86 said:I've got a lot of buddies that fish for flatheads and blues, bass are just another baitfish to them. Others that fish for walleye, white bass, wipers, and crappie a majority of the time call largemouth "green carp".
Crappie guys at one of the popular smallmouth reservoirs blame the smallmouth for the crash in the crappie population, despite them being a known cyclical fish. What's also funny is when the crappie were booming, everybody and their brother was on the lake, shoulder to shoulder and bow to stearn on the water, loading livewells, buckets, stringers, whatever they could get full of big, spawning crappie. Who knows how many thousands of crappie were prevented from reproducing, but now they're blaming the smallmouth for why there's suddenly far fewer crappie ????♂️
Word.
waymont reply :
I’ve also heard of walleye fishers killing muskies they catch while Walleye fishing. Terrible.
cyclops2 reply :
Walleye fishermen are largely MEAT CATCHERS. So they will clean out any lake in short time. The lakes ARE in long winter areas. Shorter PEAK GROWING time.
HEY !! If the locals buying fishing license want ANY 1 fish ? Have the game dept. DO IT !! They ARE PAYING FOR THEM.
Walleyes are a slow easy to catch hatchling fish for most every other adult fish.
BassThumb reply :
I'm okay with the walleye anglers disliking bass. They can stay away, for all I care. I just hope they're releasing them respectfully.
There are rumors of people occasionally cutting the gills of some Mille Lacs giant brownies when they were taking off a decade ago, but I've never seen a suspicious floater or heard that someone credible has, and I've inspected a few. The bigger issue is that smallmouth actually taste good, so some walleye anglers fillet them up when they're coming up short on 'eyes.
These Minnesota walleye anglers outnumber the bass guys 5:1, maybe more. There's also probably 3 panfish anglers for every bass guy. We should thank them for all the revenue they put into the system that keeps our public accesses in relatively good shape. Minnesota anglers spend over 5 billion with a B every year from fishing alone, and much of that is from the walleye chasers.
The Maestro reply :
This thread reminded me of this video. I'm a bass guy but I don't really "hate" any other species. And what kind of an angler hates smallmouth of all fish? They're freakin' awesome beautiful fish especially when they get big.
cyclops2 reply :
You do as a adult what you see as child. How I turned out.
billmac reply :
The only fish I've seen thrown up on the bank here in northern NY are bowfin, and there aren't many waters that contain them. Perhaps some shiners too. We get some big shiners.
Walleye can be challenging to catch, but I wouldn't call them fun. They are delicious and that's the draw. Bass are fun, but they don't taste good and are wormy up here. Pike are explosive and fun to catch, but they are a pain to clean. Good eating though. The trouble with pike is the bite offs unless you are using leaders. Musky are a once in a lifetime fish for most.
gimruis reply :
That’s a really low and pathetic thing to do, killing that muskie. I woulda been ticked if I saw it too, Maestro. Good work on getting video evidence of it too.
As far as the walleye thing goes on Mille Lacs, you must realize that walleye anglers target their quarry for one reason only: to harvest them. If they can’t keep them, 90% of them aren’t interested in fishing for them. Uneducated people love to blame the walleye collapse there on the rise of smallmouth. Some people like blaming muskies too. Fact is, the real reason has a lot to do with mismanagement and overharvest. They should put up a smallmouth statue next to the walleye statue in Garrison if you ask me.
The Maestro reply :
On 7/30/2019 at 9:23 AM, gimruis said:That’s a really low and pathetic thing to do, killing that muskie. I woulda been ticked if I saw it too, Maestro. Good work on getting video evidence of it too.
As far as the walleye thing goes on Mille Lacs, you must realize that walleye anglers target their quarry for one reason only: to harvest them. If they can’t keep them, 90% of them aren’t interested in fishing for them. Uneducated people love to blame the walleye collapse there on the rise of smallmouth. Some people like blaming muskies too. Fact is, the real reason has a lot to do with mismanagement and overharvest. They should put up a smallmouth statue next to the walleye statue in Garrison if you ask me.
Thanks but that wasn't me that took the video. The video was making the rounds on social media a few years back and the thread reminded me of the ignoramuses that kill the musky in it.
drscholl14 reply :
On 7/16/2019 at 11:20 PM, FryDog62 said:That was the big story for years on Mille Lacs (the “Original Walleye Factory”). When the cyclical walleye population went down and the Smallmouth went up, the brownies got blamed. There were rumors of walleye fishermen catching smallies, slitting their throats and releasing them to die. Launch boats put a bounty on Smallmouth and would clean them for guests that wanted meat to take home.
But it backfired when they opened up all the Smallmouth bellies while cleaning and didn’t find any walleye fry, it was 90% crayfish, 10% perch and other non walleye minnows.
It was also also discovered later while cleaning other fish - the top 2 species that were eating walleye were crappie and you guessed it - other walleyes.
Still is the big story.
On another board that's pretty much based out of MN there was a thread that had the estimated numbers of smallmouth in Mille Lacs that recently came out and the walleye guys were up in arms saying there's no way there's only 67,000 smallmouth in the lake. There's literally millions they said. We all know that smallmouth are a main predator of walleye......
Welcome to living in the walleye state......No other fish matters.
JoeInCT reply :
I can’t comprehend hatin on smallies. Pound for pound they are up there in regards to fight. Acrobatics are also a plus. My buddy is a fly fisherman and he told me many fly fishermen hate on smallies. Makes no sense. To me, any fish I’m catching is a good fish. But smallies are one of my favorites.
DogBone_384 reply :
On 7/16/2019 at 8:57 PM, PAbasser927 said:smallmouth was considered an invasive species that inhibited the native land locked salmon that most of the locals were after
Salmon tastes good, but smallies fight better .... to me, catching fish is catching fish. I'll take pickerel if the bass aren't cooperating.
My two cents.
TnRiver46 reply :
On 8/1/2019 at 7:33 AM, JoeInCT said:I can’t comprehend hatin on smallies. Pound for pound they are up there in regards to fight. Acrobatics are also a plus. My buddy is a fly fisherman and he told me many fly fishermen hate on smallies. Makes no sense. To me, any fish I’m catching is a good fish. But smallies are one of my favorites.
A lot of fly fishermen I know target Smallies. They seem to do pretty well especially when it gets really hot outside, almost like a finesse topwater bite
On 8/1/2019 at 7:45 AM, DogBone_384 said:Salmon tastes good, but smallies fight better .... to me, catching fish is catching fish. I'll take pickerel if the bass aren't cooperating.
My two cents.
I’ve only caught one salmon but I’ve heard they fight like crazy
J Francho reply :
On 8/1/2019 at 11:13 AM, TnRiver46 said:I’ve only caught one salmon but I’ve heard they fight like crazy
That's an understatement. Never caught a land locked, but I have caught many a king and coho...no smallie, no matter how big compares.
TnRiver46 reply :
On 8/1/2019 at 10:38 PM, J Francho said:That's an understatement. Never caught a land locked, but I have caught many a king and coho...no smallie, no matter how big compares.
I saw a guy in Alaska hook a red salmon that jumped out of the water and up in the woods. While hooked!
J Francho reply :
On 8/1/2019 at 11:35 PM, TnRiver46 said:I saw a guy in Alaska hook a red salmon that jumped out of the water and up in the woods. While hooked!
I've had steelhead do that. It's very disappointing.
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 8/1/2019 at 10:38 PM, J Francho said:That's an understatement. Never caught a land locked, but I have caught many a king and coho...no smallie, no matter how big compares.
That's only because you have never caught a 25lb smallie J!
John's right about the salmon. The coho's & kings definitely have an unique fight profile with the jumps & long runs. But you could almost classify them as saltwater fish which all fight like crazy since they do spend some time in the salt. See anadromous.
J Francho reply :
On 8/1/2019 at 11:44 PM, Dwight Hottle said:See anadromous.
Not mine. Though, the Great Lakes are kind of like an ocean. But you could say the same about stripers as well. Fun fact, back when they considered a solution for all the alewife in the GL, stripers were one of the species considered. I almost wish they went that way.
cyclops2 reply :
Well the salmon & all the different trout PLUS the Canadian commercial netters are doing a fantastic job with deep diving Cormorants on the bait fish.
fishwizzard reply :
A few years ago I was in Pittsburgh for work and got caught in some hellish traffic on my way to the airport. My cabby was a native Minnesotan and had an incredible example of the accent. He and I spent about a 90 minute standstill arguing bass vs walleye. He was very passionate about it and I have never spent a nicer time in traffic.
DogBone_384 reply :
On 8/1/2019 at 11:13 AM, TnRiver46 said:I’ve heard they fight like crazy
I caught a good one with a hair jig at Quabbin reservoir, a great smallie water. Smallies fight harder, but the salmon barrel rolled and made a heck of a mess in the net.
I caught another at Long Pond in Plymouth in cold water, but it was only a couple pounds and didn't have a lot of clout.
cyclops2 reply :
Well at least we do not have freshwater Blue Fish to pick up with a thumb in the mouth.
I can still recall the father reaching into the mouth for the kids hook. I am running over to him saying LET GO OF IT. LET GO OF IT
He goes shocky at the rapid chatter of the 16 " ? blues teeth chomping away on his mutilated thumb. I wrap my handkerchief around the gushing mess. He says he can drive to the E R.
Off topic ?
J Francho reply :
Not off topic. Dumb cocktail blues will get you every time!
billmac reply :
I certainly don't hate smallmouth, that's crazy. But after catching primarily smallmouth throughout my whole life, thousands of them, I don't get as much of a thrill out of it.
Having said that, now that I have a bass boat and access to bigger waters, the prospect of catching some 4lb+ smallmouth is pretty exciting.
Dwight Hottle reply :
On 8/2/2019 at 9:38 PM, billmac said:Having said that, now that I have a bass boat and access to bigger waters, the prospect of catching some 6lb+ smallmouth is pretty exciting.
I fixed it for you.
billmac reply :
Woo, a 6lb smallmouth is a tall order, even on the St. Lawrence, but I'll take it.
J Francho reply :
On 8/2/2019 at 10:46 PM, billmac said:Woo, a 6lb smallmouth is a tall order, even on the St. Lawrence, but I'll take it.
I friend of mine has pulled sixers out the Larry fishing for northern pike.
Oregon Native reply :
Northwest attitudes over trout,salmon and steelhead over bass....northern attitudes over walleye and bass ....republicans vs democrats....where's the "Love" and "respect" and lets get along boys and girls.
basscatcher8 reply :
Man I must run around in a different walleye circle than the rest of ya. All my buddies are walleye fisherman but none of them eat fish. They are all tournament fisherman. I agree a lot of guys chase em for dinner but there is a good group out there that is doing the same thing the bass guys do every weekend. Giving them a ride in the livewell to the scales and releasing them.
I never understood the fight. I enjoy going after all of them and there are some walleye tactics I like to use to look for smallies and vice versa. But some folks gotta have something to hate.
Pickle_Power reply :
I was recently told by local DNR that they are loosely encouraging anglers to keep some smallmouth out of the local river. They claim that the bass 'run the walleyes off' because of their more aggressive feeding attitude compared to walleyes. I don't know if I agree with that or not, because I generally catch as many walleyes as I do bass in that river.
Further North reply :
I don't hate walleyes...or even dislike 'em...
But for me, fishing for them is duller than dirt, about 95% of the time.
The folks that want to manage nature, by stocking this or that, or culling that other kind of fish don't get it: Mother Nature always gets what she wants. Or to quote a book I read once, "Life will find a way."
All people can do is fight a loosing battle, delaying the inevitable.
stratoliner92 reply :
Minnesota is all about their walleye, that's why this is my second Summer in a row catching bass here????????. We just spent 2 months around central MN for largemouth and now in northern MN through Fall for smallmouth.
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