Line Size for Smallmouth 2024
roadwarrior reply :
Several years ago I was with a guide on Bull Shoals Lake, the first week of June. This was yesterday, as in "you should have been here yesterday". We have a big bite going which lasted throughout the day. We started early and my guide was out-catching me at least 5 to 1 which I attributed to (1) he's a better fisherman, duh (2) it's his lake, (3) we were throwing a Gitzit that I was not used to fishing, etc. Nope, he asked what size line I was using (8 lb) and suggested I switch to 6 lb. This changed everything.
Now Bull Shoals is crystal clear but that's not exactly the answer. Same thing happen last spring while fishing with my buddy on the Tennessee River with visibility of 2-3 ft. I'm not completely retarded but I thought 8 lb might be a better choice than 6 lb due to the very rough structure in the river. Not if you want to catch fish!
So, here's the question: Taking water clarity out of the equation, why is 6lb test line so much more effective than 8 lb test when fishing for smallmouth bass?
L.D. reply :
Ah the old "You should have been here yesterday" statement. All guides are guilty of saying that when we're trying to keep up the excitement of the day. As for the line, 8 to 6 lb test really shouldn't make that big of a difference. The 6lb would have less visability and being thinner might help the jig be presented in a more natural mannor, but as a guide talking to you now, it's more of a confidence factor. If you believe it will catch more fish, you will fish it better , knowing it will catch more fish.
I use 10lb Stren Magnathin, which has a thin diameter simmular to 6lb. I also use a moss green which makes it almost invisable in our river here. I do that to pick up more bonus walleyes than anything else.I keep extra line on board just for the client if he wants to switch.
The guide will almost always outfish the client (if he wants to) because it's his daily backyard and other things you mentioned, him getting you to change to something he's useing will give you a confidence boost and make you focus more.thus your fish catching ratio will be closer to his.
We do whatever it takes to get the client to catch more fish, and if we can get them to catch more fish than us, it's even better.
Best regards
L.D.
roadwarrior reply :
Thanks L.D., your comments make sense. But I take a lot of guys fishing (just for fun, I'm not a guide) and I promise you the 6 lb test line consistantly makes a huge difference. We are generally drifting live minnows and maybe the weight or water resistance has some effect, I really don't know.
Nick reply :
I will never fish light jigs in river smallie waters with 8lb. I can't cast it as well, the action of the jig is impeded, and I think the bass see it better. On really tough days like today was, I went down to four pound line after an hour of no fish with six, to catch the five that I worked hard to get. Since my eyes are no longer as good as they once were, I use a slightly flourescent line to watch very carefully. Four of my five bites were not really felt at all. The current just seemed a tad heavier.
Pond-Pro reply :
How heavy of a smallmouth will 6 pound line hold? I lost a smallmouth that I guessed to be at least 4 pounds on 8 pound line. I want to fish thinner line without lousing fish, or the ability to cast. Is this possible? Thanks.
L.D. reply :
I have had clients land 5lb. smallmouth on 4lb line, but most of the time they break off. I try to talk them into a minimum 6lb test so they will land more fish( and they won't loose so many of my jigs in the rocks).
Like I said earlier, I use 10lb Stren Magnathin which is the aprox. diameter of 6lb mono. It gives me the strenght I want with the casting and lure pesentaion I'm looking for.
I'm sure there are other brands which will do the same thing, but when I find a line that works for me, I don't go looking for another.
AUTgrPilot reply :
I trust L.D. on this one, but I do struggle with the difference between 6 and 8 pound line. I could see a bigger difference if you were using 12lb and your guide was using 6lb, but there isn't much difference in diameter between 6 and 8.
As I said, I trust L.D. on this one, he's a guide and I'm not. If he told me to use 6lb I would.
However the guide most likely has a "better feel" for light strikes than the client. Especially when fishing for deep smallies (20+ft). I know at Lake Erie, I sometimes have trouble distinguishing the "light hits" from multiple small rocks on the bottom, which often keeps me from setting the hook when I should probably go ahead and take a swing.
Reattacks L.D.?? By the way, where do you guide again. I went and looked through posts but I didn't see it.
L.D. reply :
Hi AUTgrPilot
This will be my 25th year as a guide on the North Branch of the Susquehanna River, in Pa.,Guide # 05-050. The stretch I guide in is 80 miles long, thats about all the rocks,I care to remember.
It's reletively shallow, 15ft deep is the deepest spot in my stretch. And it's extreamly rocky on the bottom. Let your bait sit for 5 seconds on the bottom and you're snaged.
You're correct, sometimes the bite is so faint that it's hard to feel the difference between fish and small rocks. I always tell my clients, when in doubt, set the hook and reel like heck, or something close to that.
L.D.
roadwarrior reply :
I'm trying 4 lb diameter (8.5 lb test) Yo-Zuri Hybrid during the winter months. Will report the results of this test later.
Nick reply :
Fellows, a winter smallie in my parts is a colder, slower moving beast. That water in the lower 40's really slows and weakens even a big sow.
They can be handled on four pound decently, but I do long for 6 when I see a 20 inch plus fat winter brownie trying to shake free. Hey, if she gets away, so what? I can catch her again next week!Rather than broken lines, I find that the jig hook will occasionally fall out because the jigs I use have smaller hooks which were "secured" on hookset, not slammed, and the 4lb. line will have a little more stretch than 6.
butch reply :
L.D. I agree with you all on line. but as a guide what rod action do you use .with the smaller diameter line.
butch ???
roadwarrior reply :
I'm using a medium power/ moderate action rod and most importantly, a Gamakatsu circle hook...So there is no "hook set" just a pull. With standard shiner hooks, or jigs and grubs, I use fast action/ medium power to get a better hook set.
L.D. reply :
Hey Butch
Mostly,I use a medium-light, 6 1/2' fast action tip.
Of the 4 rods I use daily, 1-medium, 2-med-light,1-light. All 6 1/2', all the same line.
Remember, I guide where there isn't many weeds and even less wood. I got the whole river to play them, at least before I get to the rapids.
L.D.
roadwarrior reply :
I thought I might update this post with the results of my 4 lb experiment.
4 lb diameter Yo-Zuri Hybrid is 8.5 lb breaking strength, 6 = 11.9. I had great success with the 4 lb line. I'm using it exclusively on my main smallmouth rig (G. Loomis PR844S/ Shimano Stella 2500FB). I have also converted to circle hooks only, specifically #6 Gamakatsu Octopus Circle Hooks.
For my other spinning rigs, I am spooling 6 lb Hybrid. I predominately fish soft plastics on these rods and the 6 lb line has worked out very well.
(Note: I had been using circle hooks on a different rig which is medium power, moderate action. I'm now using them with the PR844S which is medium power/ fast action).
wvubassfan reply :
Roadwarrior I finally picked up the ultra soft in the 6 pound. I am going to order the 4lb on my next order I was just wondering do you prefer the green or clear?
roadwarrior reply :
Although I don't really think it matters, I have been using white just because I found some on sale!
My preference and suggestion to you is green, it's a better match to most water.
wvubassfan reply :
Thank You, that is what I was thinking. Does the place that had it on sale still have any on sale?
Siebert Outdoors reply :
I have noticed the same thing. Fishing not only smallies but largies too(not as shy though) Always throw the smallest size line possible. For me unfortunately I cant throw less then 12 very many places but when I can I do. Typically I will throw 8lb flouro for senkos, sometimes 6. Open water fishing I agree RW go light there is no reason to use heavy line.
roadwarrior reply :
No, it was a Wal-Mart in Arkansas, but each store has unadvertised specials on occasion. Just got lucky!
HPBB reply :
I have seen the same thing.
I was fishing a tournaments On Lake Erie (my first on Erie). The guy I was fishing with was using the same lures I was, but he was using 8lb line I had 10lb line. For every fish I caught he caught 5. He kept telling me to change. I wouldn't listen. Finally he threw a spool of 8lb to me and said" Spool up Now" I did and after that it was fish for fish.
Now I use 8Lb P-line Floroclear always when fishing Erie. I tried 6# worked great, but up there we have Zebra Muscles and the 6 doesn't hold up well against them.
Garnet reply :
The storey on Floru should make the difference between 6 and 8 nothing but I've had several experience were I got bite better with 6 than 8. So far I'm sticking to not using 4 so far.
Garnet
Master_Hunter_1977 reply :
I just wanted to comment on the question how big of bass will 6lb catch. Well I started using 6lb yo-zuri this year for steelhead b/c I had such good luck last year for smallies with it and I have landed several cromeheads this year already on the river that has ranged from 10 to 16#'s. My personal oppinion is that the line will do just about anything you want it to as long as you take your time and let your rod do the work. Have patients.
Tight Lines
Scott
CraigBaugher reply :
What is the difference between 6-lb test and 8-lb test. . . Oh, roughly speaking about 0.0006" (six ten thousand of an inch) on average. Can a fish measure that, YEP! But, I says it was another factor -- experience.
That was a BAD GUIDE! A guide is NEVER to fish with a customer, because it is a SIN for a guide to catch a BIGGER fish or even worse, MORE fish than a customer. Guides are to boost the customer's confidence and make them feel like they are a SuperStar!
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
QuoteThat was a BAD GUIDE! A guide is NEVER to fish with a customer, because it is a SIN for a guide to catch a BIGGER fish or even worse, MORE fish than a customer. Guides are to boost the customer's confidence and make them feel like they are a SuperStar!
Not so much the case here in RI. Many of my friends guide here on Narragansett Bay and they are paid mainly to teach and locate. Fishing alongside the customer and explaining as you go is the standard here. Of course, the personal request of the client is everything. If the client asks that you strictly locate, so be it. Customer's choice. Often times, the captain will simply ask what the customer would like to do.
burleytog reply :
One thing to consider is that one manufacturer's 6 lb. test will be different than another manufacturer's 6 lb. test.
I know that 8 lb. test P-Line CX is 0.009" in diameter. 6 lb. Yo-Zuri Hybrid UltraSoft is also 0.009" in diameter. 10 lb. test Berkley XL is 0.011" in diameter.
I tend to judge lines by their diameter rather than the listed lb. test rating. I consider 0.007-0.009" diameter lines to be just right for smallie fishing.
roadwarrior reply :
Actually, Yo-Zuri Hybrid #4 is .009", #6 is .010".
http://www.yo-zuri.com/Products/ProdLine/HybridLineChart.htm
Low_Budget_Hooker reply :
RW- Are you guys using 6lb on the river also? I can see it in a lake or pond but 6 lb seems a bit light for the size fish you guys get, especially in current.
roadwarrior reply :
My partner fishes #6 original Hybrid, I fish #4 Ultra Soft.
burleytog reply :
QuoteActually, Yo-Zuri Hybrid #4 is .009", #6 is .010".http://www.yo-zuri.com/Products/ProdLine/HybridLineChart.htm
I stand corrected. Just checked my spools of #6 and #10. The 6 is 0.010 and the 10 is 0.011.
justfishin reply :
I swore I would not get on the smallie post but, in this case I will. A guide should never fish with his clients unless they ask him to show them some things. I might point out where to throw and why but, I like to concentrate on the boat to give them the best advantage. Its not always easy in fast current. I have seen guides fishing like they were with some buddies and it is just not right. Most people hire a guide to learn a river and get some education on the whys and hows. I will not touch a rod unless asked. Sometimes they ask, " Why don't you fish too", and I will tell them, this is your trip, not mine. The guys are not paying $275.00 for eight hours of watching another guy catch fish.
As far as line I use both. Eight is the line I use 99% of the time on a 6'6" med, fast or extra fast action. When I use six in clear water or when I can get away with it, I use a 6"6" med lite, moderate action. I like using #6 for smallies simply because it doesn't impede the action of your tube or grub as much. Unfortunately under most of the circumstances I fish I usually go with #8 and always green low vis. Why green? I don't know, I just like green, 
HOPTOAD reply :
If line size does have a huge effect should I use a leader on a baitcaster w 14 los vis green mono for crank, spinnerbaits, and buzz baits?
Maybe a 6 or 8 lb floro leader, anyone doing this now?
I am just learning my baitcaster and know I would have never ending birdsnests if I filled the spool with 6 or 8.
Thanks for any info
HOPTOAD
Garnet reply :
On your moving baits line size is not a factor. 8 lb is getting a little light for baitcaster. I like 14 lb for spinnerbaits and buzzbaits.
Garnet
Jnamo reply :
If you want a smaller dia. per lb. of strength- check out "Tectan" in your cabelas catalog. I know of a lot of smallmouth experts that use nothing but Tectan. The dia. to lb. is printed in the catalog.
6.4lb test= .0063dia.
7.3lbtest= .0071dia.
9.2lbtest= .0079dia.
I have used the 6.4 in Canada smallie fishing and was impressed. The only time I broke off is when I snagged bottom. With all fishing lines, you need to regularly check the last two feet of line for nicks after every fish or every few cast depending on the type of cover/structure you are fishing.
Jeff
bass109 reply :
flour works great .
justfishin reply :
Jnamo, I finally found someone whom had some experience with Tectan line. I wanted to try the 9.2. How was it as far as memory, stretch, etc.
Jnamo reply :
I can only comment on the 6.4. I had no complaints. It did appear to have some stretch to it, as does all mono. Now that I have changed the way I fish I don't really have much use for smaller lines anymore.
If I was really worried about fish detecting my line I would use a Flouro. leader.
As with all lines, people have their own opinions. Something you like I might not and & vise/versa.
Tectan is equally priced with most mono's so I would give it a try. Just don't do it during a tourney!
Like I said, one of the best fisherman around swears by it and that is all he uses. He does a lot more finesse type fishing- so to each his own!
Jeff
RI_Bass_Guy reply :
The diameter difference is to little to even notice from 4 to 8 lb test unless you are using a caliper.
I use 8lb P-line cxx and never have a problem even in the clear water
of Lake Winnipesaukee,NH.
roadwarrior reply :
Not true. The circumference of the line is significantly different. Specifically, for example:
Yo-Zuri Hybrid #4 has a diameter of .009" and a circumference of ~.02826"
Yo-Zuri Hybrid #8 has a diameter of .011" and a circumference of ~.03454"
The difference is 22% which is not as noticable in terms of diameter alone, but appears significant in terms of circumference and volume.
stratosdriver reply :
i us a differnt approch due to the Rocky lakes here in New Brunswick on my Soft plastics rods i use 20lb power pro braid with a 10lb test iron silk shock tippet on the end about 4-5 feet long this stuff is very abrasion resistant and super strong i tie it on with a uni-uni knot and have never have had one break on a fish and the iron silk gives a little stretch that the braid does not have and gets really good hooksets
Jnamo reply :
RW,
While it is a very interesting topic, the relation of line diameter to circumference and volume, wouldn't the fish have to have a cross section of the line rotated 90 degress across a horizontal plane in order to observe such measurements? Being that line is round(ish) in nature wouldn't it always appear in a two dimension plane to the fish?
That being the case, the difference between the .009" and .011" line would only be measureable by eye as a difference of .002" or .001" per side across a verticle plane.
To be honest, I would be more worried about the cleanliness of my hands touching the lure than the .002" difference in the line and the fish's ability to observe/distinguish this and make an educated response.
Jeff ;
roadwarrior reply :
I think what is important is perhaps surface area and vibration sensed through the lateral line. I would not harp on this issue if it hadn't been so important to me. Line size has been the key to success on a couple of very specific occasions. The proponderance of evidence in these instances was so overwhelming, I have never questioned the results or conducted further experimentation.
As far a human smells on baits go, I am also convinced that all fish swimming in Tennessee and Arkansas enjoy the taste and aroma of tobacco & beer!
RI_Bass_Guy reply :
.002 in the world of fishing is nothing unless you convince yourself otherwise. Especially if your using flourocarbon, most fish stike on impulse anyway. So if .002 makes a difference on a reaction bite why can I can smallie's carolina rigging with a braided main line and a 3 foot 10lb test leader? It should look like a cable dropping from the surface with lure behind it. Or how about when throwing spinnerbaits with 16lb test line?
If you have confidence in something it works, if you don't it won't.
roadwarrior reply :
Well, I wasn't very clear I guess. I use #12 on all my baitcasting equipment and this is what I throw for virtually all "reaction lures." The smaller diameter line is what has woked for me when fishing soft plastics and live bait. I assure you, at least in this very specific instance, it is REALLY NOT about confidence. The difference is line size has had a PROFOUND impact on my fishing success.
BTW,
This thread is about smallmouth, but line size has been equally important when fishing for big German brown trout on the White River in north central Arkansas.
justfishin reply :
Interesting RW. It seems the smallies in this area like the taste of pipe tobacco and beer as well. Why not bottle a new scent, RW's Smokey Hops Scent.
fishingJ reply :
Is Yo-Zuri Hybrid(4lb diameter for 8.5lb test) and expensive line?
roadwarrior reply :
275 yards $7.99
600 yards $11.99
1 lb $124.99
fishingJ reply :
what is the stretch and memory like?
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