I'm Thinking I Need To Start Fishing Deeper..... 2024
Fish Chris reply :
No... I don't mean "always" from now on....
I'm just saying, I hardly EVER fish deeper than 15 feet or so with my live crawlers 1) because I often won't even cast a crawler out deep for "blind fishing". {I like to see them hanging out, or cruising in an area, before I even bother, and obviously, I'm not likely to see them... even in very clear water, much deeper than 15, or certainly 20 feet}
And 2) Because I feel like a live-lined, tail hooked crawler, with zero weight (hard to get out far, and deep} is just so much more natural.
But you know what ? I know some spots.... like points, and humps, that once in a while, will have HUGE fish up on them. Most times they are not up shallow, but I can't help but thinking they are still in the area, just maybe out a little farther / deeper ?
So lately, I've been thinking that I really need to start fishing with a really light sliding sinker setup.... say 1/8 ounce sliding weight, with the smallest bb splitshot 18" to 24" above the hook, to keep the weight above / away from the bait.
Don't get me wrong.... this is certainly not a new technique for me {used to do it a bunch for Stripers). It's just one that I seem to have fallen away from, and have almost never tried for deep(er) water Smallies.
BTW, I caught that 6.2 Smallie totally blind, and quite a bit deeper than I'd normally fish a crawler.... probably about 20 to 25 feet. Still didn't use a weight. I just made the cast while my boat was out a little deeper off of the hump, gave it plenty of slack, then pulled my boat back up shallow and lowered the anchor. Guess I could skip all of those hassles, by simply using a little lead.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyway, I just REALLY want a 9+ lb Smallie, and I'm thinking this might be the ticket.....
Hmmmm.....
Will report how it goes. Open for any additional suggestions as well.
Fish
A-Jay reply :
Sounds like a plan Chris ~
I'm wondering if blind casting a crawler in deeper water might mean weeding through some smaller bass and even add pan fish to your by-catch before you get to that Nine pounder - which by the way, is grossly obscene to even think about 
A-Jay
WRB reply :
Nose hooked small soft shell 2/1/2-3" crawdad will swim down to 20 to 25'+ without a weight or aided by a small round 1/16th oz split shot on 8 lbs FC line. Crawlers get eaten by everything...just a thought.
Tom
PS; to eliminate line being weakened; pull line through the crimped split shot to create a hole, trim off the line, then tie the hook on.
Fish Chris reply :
Thanks guys
A-Jay... Panfish ! Yea' ! This lake has MONSTER Redears, which I know spend the vast majority of their time quite deep. And they totally hang in the same areas as my Smallies + they LOVE crawlers as well ! Now a 2-3+ lb Redear would be one awesome by-catch !
WRB, true, true. I used to fish dads deeper than I often do with crawlers, because they cast farther, and will swim down, tail first.
Only problem up here (don't know if you guys are being hassled with this yet down there ?) but even though crawdads are not supposed to be illegal to use as bait, it is against the quagga regulations to bring in bait buckets, or any live bait which could conceivably transport quagga larva 
.....which sucks, as I used to get all my dads from tidally effected delta water anyway, which so far, has never produced any quagga mussels.
But whatever. Crawlers work great too.
Your right that "everything eats crawlers".... but I've never has a problem with wading through little fish to catch the big ones in this lake. The balance of small to big fish just seems to be really good ! My kind of lake 
Oh, and BTW, this lake supposedly has actual "Blue Cats" The lake record is over 30 lbs (they say 40, but it was a horrible photo, and it was weighed using the old bathroom scale trick... can't believe they would even call it a record. I think I need to catch a 45 > on my micro-light, and clear this matter up for them. Scales ? Oh, well I have my certified by the Dept of Weights & Measures, scale right here
Great tip with the split shot crimping.... but remember, I use braid with a mono leader. So what I was thinking, was that I will probably crimp my split shot to the braid, right above the not at my leader + this way, the knot won't get stuck trying to slide through the sliding sinker.
One more cool thing about this type of fishing, is that I'm totally accustomed to using an anchor when I bass fish anyway.
I think T-motors are another one of the BIG mistakes many bass fishermen make. As if fish, especially big fish, are not already aware enough of your presence > without hearing / feeling zzzzzzzzz.....zzzz.....zzzzzzzzz.....
Let that breeze drift you into position, quietly lower that anchor (to a soft landing) then then fish quietly...... and leave all of your noise making friends at home LOL
Peace,
Fish
00 mod reply :
Im interested on how you are catching such quality bass using live crawlers! Can you explain your setup on that to me as well. I have never fished for black bass using live bait, so I would be new to this all together!
Jeff
gobig reply :
Chris,
I use braid with a leader on my split shot rigs. I have found that crimping the split shot to the braid works fine. One word of caution though, if you are tying your leader direct to the braid use a bobber stop between the spilt shot and the knot. It will protect the knot if the weight slides down. I had a few heart breaks when I first started with this set up.
deaknh03 reply :
On 5/8/2011 at 12:39 AM, 00 mod said:Im interested on how you are catching such quality bass using live crawlers! Can you explain your setup on that to me as well. I have never fished for black bass using live bait, so I would be new to this all together!
Jeff
00mod, read this article, it should help you out if you are interested in using crawlers for big bass. The author looks familiar..
http://www.in-fisherman.com/content/lunkers-love-nightcrawlers#axzz1LgkXnJ5d
Hooligan reply :
Dood, if you hit a 9lb smallie I'll crown you king. That's the stuff legends are made of.
00 mod reply :
On 5/8/2011 at 1:35 AM, deaknh03 said:00mod, read this article, it should help you out if you are interested in using crawlers for big bass. The author looks familiar..
http://www.in-fisherman.com/content/lunkers-love-nightcrawlers#axzz1LgkXnJ5d
Thanks alot! I might have to try this if I can ever put down the artificial!
SirSnookalot reply :
As a young kid back in Michigan we almost exclusively fished for bass using live nightcrawlers, red and leaf worms, caught plenty of quality fish. Maybe the old guys will remember this, buy a dozen minnows and they net and gave ya 3 dozen for the price of 1, now they count them out.
Catt reply :
Y’all know my feelings on deep water structure
The bull bream on Toledo Bend would never let a night crawler reach bottom!
The average bass fishermen do not like to anchor, or even own an anchor which is a huge mistake.
My trolling motor battery never gets below 90%
Fish Chris reply :
Thanks guys.
Hooligan, most of it is just the place. For the last couple years, I have felt that the Smallies in this lake had hit there peak, and fallen off. But this year is starting to make me feel like it might have been a matter of conditions.
I know I saw at least one 9+ lb'er last year.... and I'm still thinking that 7.3 of mine was probably not the moster I sighted 60 feet away, 40 minutes earlier.
Catt,
QuoteThe bull bream on Toledo Bend would never let a night crawler reach bottom!
Even out in deeper water ? Hmmm. In Cali, you won't find too many situations where Bluegill and Bass overlap so much that this is a problem. Definitely not in my trophy Smallie lake. Heck, if I do get a sunny there, it will likely be a 1-2 lb Redear, which is totally okay with me
QuoteThe average bass fishermen do not like to anchor, or even own an anchor which is a huge mistake.
Your absolutely right, A HUGE MISTAKE !!! > But then again, average bass fishermen usually just catch average sized fish. If they are not ready to step out of the box, that's just on them
I anchor on probably 90% of the spots I fish.... ALL of them if there is even a slight breeze, or a potential for BIG fish. > EVEN when I'm throwing swimbaits, as I hate to have to adjust the speed of my retrieve, to compensate for the boat drifting toward or away from my cast.
+ I probably won't be able to make 4 or 6 casts, without the boat drifting to a less than optimum position > and remember, every time you hit that T-motor, you just decreased the odds of a big fish bite by probably 10% to 50%.
USE AN ANCHOR, or shoot yourself in the foot !
Peace,
Fish
RoLo reply :
On 5/8/2011 at 7:15 AM, Catt said:The average bass fishermen doesn't like to anchor, or even own an anchor which is a huge mistake.My trolling motor battery never gets below 90%
On The Money, Tom
In a past post it was actually stated that having Power Poles mounted on your boat
creates the impression that you know what you’re doing.
Well..that was the day I learned two things I never knew before:
1) Impression is more important than Performance
2) A boat that resembles a grasshopper makes other anglers drool 
:D
Rest assured the Power Pole I use will never arouse any jealousy, but it works in all water depths
and my battery rarely goes below a 90% charge
(12-lb River Anchor)
Roger
Fish Chris reply :
Rolo, we use the exact same anchor
Fish
Catt reply :
Chris on Toledo Bend catching big bull bream is like catching big bass, you have to get off the bank & out into deeper water. It is very common to catch bull bream in 12-18' of water straight line a cricket.
I use a 20 lb Tri-fluted river anchor
TimJ reply :
Chris...just a thought...have you ever used a swivel between your 2 types of line? it may accomplish the weight that you need without using a split shot, it will eliminate any small amt of line twist and still only 2 knots. you could vary the size of the swivel to get a bit different weight. this has been a nice thread to read. thanks.
Fish Chris reply :
Catt, wow. That's a trip. Kind of sounds like our Red Ears, the difference being, our big Red Ears are few and far between.
Tim, yes, I have used swivels in the past, but 1) I think I'm going to need a little more weight, and 2) I usually stick to "the less hardware in the water, the better" principal.
But I'm sure it would work though. Oh, and I basically never have line twist issues anymore with my braided line.
Peace,
Fish
WRB reply :
On 5/9/2011 at 12:33 AM, Fish Chris said:Catt, wow. That's a trip. Kind of sounds like our Red Ears, the difference being, our big Red Ears are few and far between.
Tim, yes, I have used swivels in the past, but 1) I think I'm going to need a little more weight, and 2) I usually stick to "the less hardware in the water, the better" principal.
But I'm sure it would work though. Oh, and I basically never have line twist issues anymore with my braided line.
Peace,
Fish
Did you see the 5.5 lb Redear (shell cracker) caught by Robert Lawler at Lake Havasu recently; 16.75L X 19.G fishing for bass with T-rigged Power worm...talk about a football!
Chris I haven't fished live bait in decades but I ounce did and very effectively. The Quagga issue has curtailed transporting livebait, some lakes sell it at local tackle shop. I believe if you catch crawdads out the lake, you can fish them without penalty.
The problem with a leader is the added knots, a swivel adds 1 more and you have 3 knots.
Good luck with your pursuit of the 9+ lb smallie and look forward to seeing the picture.
Tom
RoLo reply :
On 5/8/2011 at 2:38 PM, Fish Chris said:Rolo, we use the exact same anchor
Fish
We both use spinning tackle, braided line, river anchors and so on.
But the similarity that amazes me most, is that you and I both place
a 2-lb redear sunfish on the same pedestal as a 9-lb bass.
We're both nuts :D .
Rolo
bilgerat reply :
On 5/9/2011 at 1:47 AM, RoLo said:We both use spinning tackle, braided line, river anchors and so on.
But the similarity that amazes me most, is that you and I both place
a 2-lb redear sunfish on the same pedestal as a 9-lb bass.
We're both nuts
Rolo
You're not the only one. There's a lake in the Poconos that has some of the biggest and meanest 'gills I've ever caught. They will absolutely demolish a Jitterbug and other "bass only" baits. Pound for pound a superior fight to a LMB. Often I'll target them exclusively. I'll be up there the second week of June and get some pics.
Fish Chris reply :
Hey, I've always said, "Size is relative to so many things, most importantly, the species" !
BTW, my trophy Smallie lake actually does have a decent number of BIG Redears, and BIG Bluegill's too.... It's just that they come on later in the year (June, July) when I'm already winding down on the bass fishing.....
Leastwise, most others years I was winding down. But maybe this year.... {I just heard on the news that gas prices could be falling as much as .50 cents a gallon in the next 6 to 8 weeks !} I might have to make some trophy sunfish trips..... + I always have to stop and remember that the Cali state record Smallmouth of 9.6 lbs, "which came out of this lake" 3 years ago, was caught at (I think it was) the end of June !!!
So, even if my deeper water crawler techniques don't work so great just yet, I might have to try it again in June - July. Heck, if I'm there for big Sunny's anyway, and already have a bunch of crawlers with me for those :)
Peace,
Fish
PS, WRB, yes ! I saw that MONSTER Redear ! Just wow ! That thing was just ridiculous !
J Francho reply :
Chris, I think if you line up your usual shallow spots on a map, you'll see that there is good deep water structure fairly close by. There should be "better" fish there. I use quotes liberally there, better is relative, LOL. It would be tough for many to imagine bettering you past results.
WRB reply :
I believe reading Chris's PB smallie was caught off deep structure with a (bluegill) swimbait.
The classic method is double anchoring inside migration routes, casting out into deeper breaks working the livebait back to the boat. Bill Murphy illustrated this technique in detail in his book "In Pursuit of Giant Bass".
Anchoring; setting out the anchor and rope the boat becomes less intrusive ounce everything settles down. Saturating a potential big bass zone takes time and more dedication to one spot than the majority of anglers have. It's easier to be more mobile using a trolling motor or power poles and effective method for the vast majority of bass anglers. When you are fishing fly lined or very light weighted live bait a stationary plateform like an anchored boat is a big advantage. Using power poles on deep structured lakes is difficult, anchors work.
Tom
J Francho reply :
In my kayak, I'll drop just one anchor, an 4x the length as depth. In a soft breeze, you pendulum over the point, or whatever structure you're on, back and forth. I don't live bait fish, but this is great with jigs and other drop baits.
Bass_Akwards reply :
On 5/7/2011 at 12:26 PM, Fish Chris said:BTW, I caught that 6.2 Smallie totally blind, and quite a bit deeper than I'd normally fish a crawler.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Anyway, I just REALLY want a 9+ lb Smallie, and I'm thinking this might be the ticket.....
Anyone else jealous that one of Chris' biggest problems in fishing is the 48oz difference between the gargantuan 6+ pound toadmonsters he catches on a regular basis, and the 9+ pound dream fish that he's probably gunna catch in the next year? (I have faith brother!) 
Fish Chris reply :
Well Bass_Akwards, like I keep emphasizing, it's really just the time and place....
That, plus the fact the no other, serious, experienced bass anglers that I know of, at least on this lake, use crawlers. Sure, plenty of crawlers get used on this lake, but almost always just wadded onto a hook, and casted out from the bank, and the pole stuck in a pole holder. Then, an hour later, they reel in this waterlogged hunk of garbage and say, "Yep. It's still there", and they cast the same hunk of #$@& back out for another hour. To me, that's not even crawler fishing.
Peace,
Fish
On 5/10/2011 at 1:29 AM, Bass_Akwards said:Anyone else jealous that one of Chris' biggest problems in fishing is the 48oz difference between the gargantuan 6+ pound toadmonsters he catches on a regular basis, and the 9+ pound dream fish that he's probably gunna catch in the next year? (I have faith brother!)
Bass_Akwards reply :
On 5/10/2011 at 2:01 AM, Fish Chris said:Well Bass_Akwards, like I keep emphasizing, it's really just the time and place....
Peace,
Fish
Let me preface this by saying I'm a HUGE believer that "being ON big bass is how you catch big bass" as opposed to the bait choice you use etc. BUT, I only believe that to a point.
In any case, I've heard you say "it's really just the time and place" a lot Chris. Do you REALLY believe that? If so, it's very interesting to me.
Personally I think you're selling yourself a little short, or just being modest. I might not say that if I didn't know you've caught the number of huge bass you have, but you have, and therefore it can't JUST be time and place can it? Even in the "personal best" thread you mention "but if you had been in that spot, at that time, and casting that lure, "YOU would have been the one to catch THAT fish"
Really? I'm not so sure. To me "time and place" is the real talent but that's beside the point. I feel that if you put a large percentage of anglers in that spot you caught your lake record, with the same bait, at the same time, odds are, they wouldn't have hooked that bass much less fought it correctly, and then landed it. Just an opinion, I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time.
WRB reply :
Every bass angler has a preferred lure or bait and spends more time on the water fishing it. Time and place to catch giant size bass simply is; the bass is located where you are fishing at that time.
The reason I caught all my giant bass on the same type hair jig over a 22 year time period is; I fished that same jig the majority of the time, because I have complete confidence that during pre spawn, where I fish, big bass are feeding on crawdads and at times planted trout.
I also fished swimbaits the balance of that same time period and continue to fish both jigs and swimbaits to this day. The difference is; the giant bass population where I fish has been over harvested and very few are in the lake today; wrong time and place to catch them.
Tom
bilgerat reply :
On 5/12/2011 at 1:38 AM, Bass_Akwards said:Let me preface this by saying I'm a HUGE believer that "being ON big bass is how you catch big bass" as opposed to the bait choice you use etc. BUT, I only believe that to a point.
In any case, I've heard you say "it's really just the time and place" a lot Chris. Do you REALLY believe that? If so, it's very interesting to me.
Personally I think you're selling yourself a little short, or just being modest. I might not say that if I didn't know you've caught the number of huge bass you have, but you have, and therefore it can't JUST be time and place can it? Even in the "personal best" thread you mention "but if you had been in that spot, at that time, and casting that lure, "YOU would have been the one to catch THAT fish"
Really? I'm not so sure. To me "time and place" is the real talent but that's beside the point. I feel that if you put a large percentage of anglers in that spot you caught your lake record, with the same bait, at the same time, odds are, they wouldn't have hooked that bass much less fought it correctly, and then landed it. Just an opinion, I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time.
If you were to go back and read Chris's posts over the last few years, one constant theme is his philosophy of doing things different than anyone else.
Live lining a nightcrawler on an ultralight rig for trophy bass. Who in their right mind would do such a thing ?
The man doesn't even own a baitcaster.
One pitfall of the "Information Age" is there is sometimes too much information out there. It's easy to lose your focus. It happened to me over the past few years. This year I started fresh with a minimal tackle approach. I'm back to the few things that have worked for me in the past and it's paying off for me. No disrespect for those who carry large bags with hundreds of baits. It just doesn't work for me.
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