Flipping Techniques 2024
1234567 reply :
Hello everyone,
I was flipping over the past few days as this technique I've decided to learn this year.
I've caught fish doing this before but am havning trouble with consistency. Reason I say consistency is I believe with the low water level and cold temps here is south florida, I would think the fish would bury themselves in these mats. Although two days ago when I was out the water temp was 63 degrees, so maybe that is not cold enough in south florida for the fish to take refuge to the mats??
I have been practicing flippin a local canal here that is fairly narrow (50 feet wide) but holds good numbers of fish with the occasional 6-8 pounder caught every so often.
With the water level dropping, the canal has completely matted over with weeds with the depth anywhere between 1-6 feet below the surface.
As far as my technique, all the basics, flipping stick, tungsten weight 1-1.5 ounce pegged and a good stout flippin hook.
My question is, how do you break down an area to flip, I hit points of mats and then work in.
How often will you pump/lift/jig the bait, before pulling out for the next flip.
Of all the fish I've caught flipping, I have only felt the bite a few times, all the others were heavy when I went to lift the rod tip up. Is this normal?
I am using a netbait paca craw in red shad and pb and j colors right now, I'm not sure if the color is making a big difference opposed to bad technique?
Thanks for any input.
lmoore reply :
In general, look for change and transitions within the mat. That could be in the form of points or cuts along the edge, or a transition from a thick mat to a thin area of the mat, or even a change in the type of plant material the mat consists of. Essentially, if it catches your eye, it probably des the same to a fish. Almost all of your bites flipping will either be on the initial fall, or within 1-2 pumps. I usually pump from the bottom all the way up to the mat and do it half a dozen to a dozen times, depending on when I'm catching fish. Your colors should be fine, I would worry more about zoning in on key fish areas within the mat, and learning to read and react to what the fish are doing.
james 14 reply :
Bass holing up under grass mats is usually something they do after a good front moves through and usually once they've begun the spawning sequence. Earlier last week was a good example of such a front but I'm not sure if they would've started spawing yet where you're fishing. If they haven't you'll probably find more fish in deeper water (not sure that's possible in the canals?). Picture this: The fish is on bed and a big front moves through. Since the urge to spawn has been set in that fish's mind they're not going to move out very far if they don't have to. This is when they hole up in the nearest clump of thickness with a prime target being matted vegetation on top of the water. Now look at it the opposite way. If they're not spawning their first inclination is to always move to deeper water so flipping grass mats doesn't make much sense. But again, it depends on the body of water you're fishing.
Looking at your narrow canal I'd focus my attempts in the middle where the deepest water is most likely to be. There also may be a spot on the canal that has some change in contour. It may be a turn, a wider section, a spot with deeper water (even if only a foot), or anything that gives the bass something else to relate to. If the entire thing is, indeed, matted over with vegetation you may have few other options besides flipping.
Technique-wise: I find that nearly all my bites come on the fall and for this reason I try to use as light a weight as I can get away with. Sometimes you need that 1oz weight but other times you can get away with something much lighter. This isn't usually the case when punching through grass mats...you need weight. In cold or post-front conditions it may take a couple hops off the bottom and allowing the bait to sit still for a couple seconds to entice a strike.
1234567 reply :
Excellent info guys!
James 14,
With the scenario depicted in your post, I'm thinking this weekend may be an exact situation in which you explained.
I'm probably heading to Okeechobee Saturday and it seems like bucks are on beds off and on lately. With the front moving in Saturday, do you think this will be a good time to flip mats?
All this practice is so my trips to Lake O aren't wasted with learning.
In the small canal I fish I know exactly where the deeper areas are and they are matted over. I will target this area a little more next time as I hit these places alot when I only have a couple hours to pass.
In regards to letting the bait sit on the bottom for a few seconds, in your opinion, do you think bass spit the bait almost immediately when they feel that one-two ounce tungsten weight on it? I have not let it sit for this reason, but I will let it rest on the bottom more next time out.
roadwarrior reply :
Here ya go:
http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-videos/jig-fishing.html
james 14 reply :
On 1/11/2012 at 9:46 AM, 1234567 said:Excellent info guys!
James 14,
With the scenario depicted in your post, I'm thinking this weekend may be an exact situation in which you explained.
I'm probably heading to Okeechobee Saturday and it seems like bucks are on beds off and on lately. With the front moving in Saturday, do you think this will be a good time to flip mats?
All this practice is so my trips to Lake O aren't wasted with learning.
Do a search for last year's FLW tournament on Lake O in January. It was a mat flipping parade with 8 foot rods resembling broomsticks and 80lb braid. They set the 4 day record with 106lbs. If I remember correctly the conditions were post front. Check the FLW site as I'm sure they'll have a complete run down that should help you out.
QuoteIn the small canal I fish I know exactly where the deeper areas are and they are matted over. I will target this area a little more next time as I hit these places alot when I only have a couple hours to pass.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
QuoteIn regards to letting the bait sit on the bottom for a few seconds, in your opinion, do you think bass spit the bait almost immediately when they feel that one-two ounce tungsten weight on it? I have not let it sit for this reason, but I will let it rest on the bottom more next time out.
I really can't say either way. I'm sure it doesn't help the situation when they feel that heavy weight but you can't catch them if the bait doesn't get down to them. Something I wanted to experiment this year was flipping with a heavy duty drop shot type rig. I would leave 4-5" of tag after tying my palomar knot and connect a heavy weight to the tag end. When the bait hits the bottom it sits a little more naturally in the water and right at eye level with the bass. Then you can jiggle it in place much easier and subtler than hopping a ounce+ weight. This would also alleviate most concerns with the fish feeling the weight in their mouth. Also, once you get the feel for the technique you won't be giving the fish much time to spit the lure out before you set the hook.
piscicidal reply :
On 1/11/2012 at 7:42 AM, 1234567 said:Although two days ago when I was out the water temp was 63 degrees, so maybe that is not cold enough in south florida for the fish to take refuge to the mats??.
I was at Okeechobee a week ago Saturday. The water temp was 63, with air temp about 48 in the AM. The ONLY way I could catch fish in the morning was punching mats. Later when the water warmed up, I started catching them with moving baits.
To answer your question, I think 63 degree water temp is definitely cold enough for these (wimpy) South Florida bass to bury under those mats. Especially, if a drop in temperature preceded it.
J Francho reply :
A flip is just a way to cast. Deliver the bait to the fish quietly, right in their wheelhouse, and be prepared to set the hook fast. The fight can be a little interesting with a big fish in cover on a short leash. I generally use a pitch to farther targets, but I'll use a flip to get to a close target that I over looked. It's also great to "poke and pray" when fish are scattered over a large weedy flat.
1234567 reply :
"Wimpy fish" seems these Florida bass are so finicky for sure!
"Poke and Pray" is EXACTLY what I feel like when flipping or pitching.
I usually set the hook as soon as I feel the fish like I do when jig fishing, but there were several after pumping the bait a couple times I never felt anything and they were there holding the bait in their mouth!! I was wondering how many fish I have been missing on the drop, as that may be normal with this technique?? My concern, using the heavy weights similar to heavier jigs, the bass probably spits it quickly unlike texas rigged baits with 1/8-3/8 sinkers.
How many of you have had a bass hold a 1-2 ounce tungsten weight in there mouth for any significant amount of time before you knew they had the bait.
J Francho reply :
Plenty of times. Smear Megastrike on the weight as a lube and hopefully for them to hold it longer.
Nothing so horrifying as seeing one of the most violent strikes while flipping, and realizing you never felt a bump, or saw the line twitch. If you're flipping a flat, and it takes a 3 count to hit bottom, and suddenly it gets there in a 2 count, set the hook, LOL.
SirSnookalot reply :
@1234567,
I live in Florida and fish canals just like you mentioned, I fish them differently. I use a fluke or any kind of plastic worm weedless and I cast on the opposite bank, I then slowly pull my bait back into the water, I get a lot of strikes as I'm entering the water. I don't use weight, I find since these canals are so shallow the fish will come up and grab it.
Hyrule Bass reply :
On 1/12/2012 at 3:13 AM, SirSnookalot said:@1234567,
I live in Florida and fish canals just like you mentioned, I fish them differently. I use a fluke or any kind of plastic worm weedless and I cast on the opposite bank, I then slowly pull my bait back into the water, I get a lot of strikes as I'm entering the water. I don't use weight, I find since these canals are so shallow the fish will come up and grab it.
his goal isnt to learn how to fish the canals neccesarily though. its about the whos, whats, whens, wheres, whys, and hows to flipping. the canal is his practice spot, he wants to have the technique of flipping down before he takes trips to Lake Okeechobee so he will have an idea of what he is doing and what to look for...
J Francho reply :
Flipping is something you want to have like a second nature. As I'm moving through a weed flat, I don't think, "should I make a flip or a pitch here." It's automatic - whatever works better. I think, "let me get my bait there," and whatever cast is best happens. Like driving, you don't think, "turn the wheel clockwise," you look right (well hopefully you look left first, LOL) and go there.
Nitrofreak reply :
Flipping takes time but once you get good at it it's like J says it becomes 2nd nature, it's good you are practicing but you can continue honeing your skill at home too, Glenn has a great way of doing this at home, he used 4" PVC pipe and cut them into I think he said 4 or 6" tall pieces and scattered them in the yard.
As far as the grass or mats are concerned I generally look for a small opening to toss into, if there are any, once I make my pitch or flip I treat it like a dropshot.
SirSnookalot reply :
On 1/12/2012 at 3:50 AM, Red Earth said:his goal isnt to learn how to fish the canals neccesarily though. its about the whos, whats, whens, wheres, whys, and hows to flipping. the canal is his practice spot, he wants to have the technique of flipping down before he takes trips to Lake Okeechobee so he will have an idea of what he is doing and what to look for...
Only suggesting another option.
1234567 reply :
More great info guys!
As far as looking at a mat and breaking down an area to pitch that looks best is like a new fisherman arriving on a new lake and wondering where to start.
I see the mat and flip the heck out of the whole thing, now that you guys have explained a little more what to look for maybe this will help locating spots in the mat without having to really think about it.
At first it was inconceivable to me that a 1-2 ounce weight feeling as connected to it as you do that you couldn't feel the slightest bite when pumping your bait and that is what really puzzles me.
Lately, this slump the fish here were biting so light I never felt them??
Next I have to learn what aquatic plants these mats are comprised of to help me break them down a little easier. Right now it just looks like one giant weed!
I watch alot of Mikeybalzzfishing on youtube as he has 100's of flipping/punching vids on there.
I analyze the heck out of these and apply what I learned when I'm out. The bad, in the vids I can't see the breakdown of the mat to which he's fishing usually. I do like that sometimes he gives an explanation of what he's doing and what the bite is like.
james 14 reply :
<p style="margin-left: 40px">Always think about what the mat is giving the fish and look for things that meet that same need. It's basically blanket over the water. A lot of times when you have a mat on top you have very thick vegetation underneath it. Some might disagree and I'm sure its not always true but I think the fish would want a little more room. They certainly won't sit with their eyes covered up. The ideal situation would be a mat of hyacynths on top that leave open water underneath. The mat provides a good blanket while allow the bass to see and "hear" without the wad of grass all around them.</p>
Skeet22 reply :
Mats close to points,channels and wood are what I look for. As far as flipping vs pitching I do both depending on how far my target is. I may flip the front of a mat then pitch to the back or closer to the bank. You can cover an area much quicker flipping if your not out of flipping range.
Nitrofreak reply :
There is one other thing that I do when im in thick grass, I do not know how it compares to your mat but I will tie on a heavy jig and tie a dropshot lure just above it, depending on how deep the mat is determines how far up the line I tie the dropshot.
If you get bit this will let you know if they are on the bottom or suspended in the mat.
Once I flip it in I let it sit for about 5 seconds and give it 2 or 3 twitches on a tight line, moving the jig slightly, let it sit again and 2 or 3 more, if I do not get a reaction I will move to another spot or move to the outside of the grass or in your case the mat.
Good luck and be safe!!!
1234567 reply :
I really like the idea of tying off a second lure above the weight or off the longer end of the tag.
I know I will try this later on but as for now, maybe it's better to learn one bait on the end of my line??
I would assume the second bait or one hanging off a longer tag doesn't get caught much on the top of the mat. It seems some of the mats around here, I'm using at least a 1.5 ounce and still getting stuck on top some of the times. Im making my entry into the mat at a very low trajectory slowing the bait down, thumbing the spool as it gets close to the target. I've seen some people make high pitches to get it to penetrate and I'll experiment with that later. As for now I'm just increasing weight to keep the entry low and softer on impact.
Nitrofreak reply :
On 1/13/2012 at 7:29 AM, 1234567 said:I really like the idea of tying off a second lure above the weight or off the longer end of the tag.
I know I will try this later on but as for now, maybe it's better to learn one bait on the end of my line??
I would assume the second bait or one hanging off a longer tag doesn't get caught much on the top of the mat. It seems some of the mats around here, I'm using at least a 1.5 ounce and still getting stuck on top some of the times. Im making my entry into the mat at a very low trajectory slowing the bait down, thumbing the spool as it gets close to the target. I've seen some people make high pitches to get it to penetrate and I'll experiment with that later. As for now I'm just increasing weight to keep the entry low and softer on impact.
Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on what your doing, Nice job!!
But if the mat is that thick and you know they are in there I would throw a spinner around the very edge to draw them out that way.
Not sure if you have tried that yet but just a suggestion.
lmoore reply :
On 1/12/2012 at 4:15 AM, J Francho said:Flipping is something you want to have like a second nature. As I'm moving through a weed flat, I don't think, "should I make a flip or a pitch here." It's automatic - whatever works better. I think, "let me get my bait there," and whatever cast is best happens. Like driving, you don't think, "turn the wheel clockwise," you look right (well hopefully you look left first, LOL) and go there.
This can't be overstated enough for ANY method of fishing, and to get to that level takes one thing: practice!
J Francho reply :
On 1/13/2012 at 9:37 PM, lmoore said:This can't be overstated enough for ANY method of fishing, and to get to that level takes one thing: practice!
LOL, I talk the talk, but you should see my 1st couple trips bass fishing in April. Talk about knock the rust off! Man, it's ugly. Long winters erase skill.
lmoore reply :
On 1/13/2012 at 10:04 PM, J Francho said:LOL, I talk the talk, but you should see my 1st couple trips bass fishing in April. Talk about knock the rust off! Man, it's ugly. Long winters erase skill.
LOL, we must have similiar April outings. No matter how much I "prepare" for the first day of the season, the first cast is almost guaranteed to find the nearest tree.
james 14 reply :
On 1/13/2012 at 10:17 PM, lmoore said:No matter how much I "prepare" for the first day of the season, the first cast is almost guaranteed to find the nearest tree.
Even if you're dropshotting over a midlake dropoff 
1234567 reply :
I went out for three hours today after I dropped the little one off at school.
Frustration would be an understatement! I had about 10 bites today and I swung on half of them once I realized they were fish and missed them all. The other half once I realized they were fish they were gone before I had a chance.
Learning from the posts here did help though, so in all it was a great learning experience as I had more bites today than others!
I fished a jig heavily last year and now I feel I am very confident throwing one of those, but the learning curve for me it seems punching these mats are so much harder. I mean that in a sense that with the jig, I developed that "feel" after a few missed hooksets and after catching a couple. It became very easy to distinguish a bite on the jig as with punching I still have not felt the fish hit it.
On one flip today, I thought I felt a "tick" that felt "alive" and I held the rod steady slowly and easily holding tension on the line and I felt movement! I didn't reel down as my pole was already just above parallel to the ground at this point and I swung away and came up empty!! That was pretty much the story of the day.
I think the mats I'm fishing may not be "mats", it just may be overgrown weeds from the bottom matting up on the surface and that maybe the difference. I can feel all kinds of stuff underneath when I'm pumping my bait.
I may actually hold of on Big O until I get this punching thing down as I don't want to waste time over there missing fish or I'll try to get them another way.
I did see bass back on the beds, actually a male and female together today.
J Francho reply :
Why not flip a jig then?
1234567 reply :
It doesn't seem like I could get it through without it getting hung up. The profile seems it would be too big.
J Francho reply :
That's what flipping jigs are for.
lmoore reply :
On 1/14/2012 at 2:02 AM, james 14 said:Even if you're dropshotting over a midlake dropoff
It depends how far away the nearest tree is and how much line I have on my reel.
On 1/14/2012 at 2:46 AM, 1234567 said:It doesn't seem like I could get it through without it getting hung up. The profile seems it would be too big.
Use a brush jig (flipping jig) and get a larger size. I use 3/4 oz for punching. Your mats down there might get thicker to the point you need a 1 oz or even bigger. They also make special skirts for punching which are more streamlined. Google flipping jig, brush jig, and punch skirt and you should find some options.
1234567 reply :
I have a couple dirty jigs flippin jigs but havn't used them yet for punching mats. I can give it a try, but with the 1.5 tungsten weight getting stuck on top occasionally I figure the jig would get stuck more especially with the weedgaurd sticking out.
lmoore reply :
Wow, you really do have a lot thicker mats there if a 1.5 gets stuck. Are you sure there's water underneath? 
lmoore reply :
Side note, there should be thinner areas in the mat. Punch those. The bait will get through easier, and the transition form the thick, heavy mat to a thinner mat is a transition that will often hold fish.
J Francho reply :
Get a Hack Attack jig in 1-1/4 oz. I mean, if you are having trouble with hooksets on T-rigs, but not jigs, then stick to jigs.
1234567 reply :
On 1/14/2012 at 3:02 AM, lmoore said:Wow, you really do have a lot thicker mats there if a 1.5 gets stuck. Are you sure there's water underneath?
Well it doesn't get stuck right on the top, but it seems it drops a couple inches and gets hung up. I have to shake it a few times and eventually it falls through to the bottom. I also flip into the areas you stated "thinner" but I flip the super thick stuff too just too check if they're holding under there. Not like I'd know yet, because I cant' feel them bite anyways!
lmoore reply :
You'll get the hang of it. Just by adding punching to your repetoire, you're way ahead of most people. A lot easier (potentially) to catch fish if you don't have to try and make them leave the mats to hit a spinnerbait/jig/crank fished on the outside edge.
1234567 reply :
Lmoore, Jfranco,
I've been switching from a lazer trokar flipping hook and a 5/0 gamakatsu EWG. I've hooked everything I set on with the straight shank trokar hook but miss alot with the gammie. Do you think that is making a difference or just horrible timing on my part with the missed fish?
I prefer the EWG because I can get the bait to sit straighter and it doesn't foul up on the hook as much.
J Francho reply :
Maybe. I use a 4-6/0 SSW hook from Owner. It's a bait hook, but works as well as anything I've tried. It's basically a gigantic 4x strong octopus hook.
Nitrofreak reply :
On 1/14/2012 at 3:09 AM, 1234567 said:
Well it doesn't get stuck right on the top, but it seems it drops a couple inches and gets hung up. I have to shake it a few times and eventually it falls through to the bottom. I also flip into the areas you stated "thinner" but I flip the super thick stuff too just too check if they're holding under there. Not like I'd know yet, because I cant' feel them bite anyways!
Put your finger under the line next to the reel and lift a little, just enough to put line tension on your finger if your having trouble feeling the bite, just remember to move it before you set the hook.
It's going to do one of two things, it;s either going to go slack on you or you will feel a bump.
Nitrofreak reply :
On 1/14/2012 at 3:39 AM, lmoore said:You'll get the hang of it. Just by adding punching to your repetoire, you're way ahead of most people. A lot easier (potentially) to catch fish if you don't have to try and make them leave the mats to hit a spinnerbait/jig/crank fished on the outside edge.
Not sure if your referring to my suggestion or not but I should have made myself a little clearer anyway.
The reason why I suggested a spinner on the edge is due to the fact that these mats sound really very thick, it is possible that the fish is getting a mouthfull of whatever this stuff is along with picking up his bait and he just can not get a good hook set.
It is not that he looses any experience punching mats, it sounds like he is doing a pretty darn good job at it, but it does give him other options of getting these fish out of the really thick stuff and learning a lesson as to why he is missing some of these fish, if they really are bitting and he is missing them then this will prove they are there and the mat is aiding in his missed opportunities.
1234567 reply :
On 1/14/2012 at 4:26 AM, Nitrofreak said:Not sure if your reffering to my suggestion or not but I should have made myself a little clearer anyway.
The reason why I suggested a spinner on the edge is due to the fact that these mats sound really very thick, it is possible that the fish is getting a mouthfull of whatever this stuff is along with picking up his bait and he just can not get a good hook set.
It is not that he looses any experience punching mats, it sounds like he is doing a pretty darn good job at it, but it does give him other options of getting these fish out of the really thick stuff and learning a lesson as to why he is missing some of these fish, if they really are bitting and he is missing them then this will prove they are there and the mat is aiding in his missed opportunities.
I think you may be on to something I didn't think of. I noticed several times today that one of the claws were tore off after feeling the fish. I figured maybe they were kind of "mouthing" the bait. Thinking of your post, maybe they are getting a mouth full of weeds with the bait and not allowing for a solid hook up. I know some mats are wide open underneath them and some have "lanes" or tunnels fish use to move through them. I'm not sure these ones have either of the two and that may be why I'm having so much trouble.
My next time out if I'm not at okeechobee I'm going to try some different mats to punch.
Nitrofreak reply :
On 1/14/2012 at 4:38 AM, 1234567 said:I think you may be on to something I didn't think of. I noticed several times today that one of the claws were tore off after feeling the fish. I figured maybe they were kind of "mouthing" the bait. Thinking of your post, maybe they are getting a mouth full of weeds with the bait and not allowing for a solid hook up. I know some mats are wide open underneath them and some have "lanes" or tunnels fish use to move through them. I'm not sure these ones have either of the two and that may be why I'm having so much trouble.
My next time out if I'm not at okeechobee I'm going to try some different mats to punch.
Punching mats, or grass in my case, is a whole lot of fun or a whole lot frustration, sounds like you are well on your way to being an excellent angler.
Just keep an open mind if you are having trouble retreving from the mat and go get them with other options.
Good luck and be safe!!!
1234567 reply :
Thanks and I appreciate the encouragement!
I almost broke down and fished for them using different techniques and I would have but I left everything in the truck and ONLY brought punching gear. It's the only way I'll learn if it's the only option available. I did learn today so I am happy, but like swimbaiting with 8 inch huddlestons, man it can get frustrating..
I figure a large portion of the year here in south florida bass will be holding in heavy cover. That in addtion to lakes getting matted over I figured I had to learn how to do it.
lmoore reply :
On 1/14/2012 at 3:45 AM, 1234567 said:Lmoore, Jfranco,
I've been switching from a lazer trokar flipping hook and a 5/0 gamakatsu EWG. I've hooked everything I set on with the straight shank trokar hook but miss alot with the gammie. Do you think that is making a difference or just horrible timing on my part with the missed fish?
I prefer the EWG because I can get the bait to sit straighter and it doesn't foul up on the hook as much.
You do get better hooksets with a straight-shank hook such as the Trokar Flippin hook. I still often use a 5/0 EWG when I punch, but I've started using a flippin hook more and more. Get it on straight (ish) and take a toothpick and run it through the bait and the hook eye. It helps keep the bait set so you don't have to redo it after every big fish. Otherwise, if you feel more comfortable with an EWG, just keep practicing with that and you'll get the hang of it.
On 1/14/2012 at 4:00 AM, Nitrofreak said:Put your finger under the line next to the reel and lift a little, just enough to put line tension on your finger if your having trouble feeling the bite, just remember to move it before you set the hook.
It's going to do one of two things, it;s either going to go slack on you or you will feel a bump.
I wasn't referring to yours at all. Hitting the egde of the mats can be and is more effective at times, but having the ability to go back into the thick stuff gives you the leg up on those who can't. That's all I meant.
Nitrofreak reply :
On 1/14/2012 at 4:56 AM, 1234567 said:Thanks and I appreciate the encouragement!
I almost broke down and fished for them using different techniques and I would have but I left everything in the truck and ONLY brought punching gear. It's the only way I'll learn if it's the only option available. I did learn today so I am happy, but like swimbaiting with 8 inch huddlestons, man it can get frustrating..
I figure a large portion of the year here in south florida bass will be holding in heavy cover. That in addtion to lakes getting matted over I figured I had to learn how to do it.
LOL Yes I know what you mean, I must admit your persistence is pretty good but believe me it will pay off and you are doing just fine.
1234567 reply :
The reason I went to a Gamakatsu EWG is because the first fish I caught on the Trokar I noticed it scraped the roof of the bass mouth from the back up to the front where it finally penetrated the bone. This scrape or drag mark the hook made was easily an inch long and I feel it should have penetrated in the back where it initially made contact. This lead me to believe that the Trokar hook was flexing a bit to much which was cause for concern flippin heavy stuff. I love the bait keeper and I'll try the toothpick and maybe that will help with the bait sitting in place for longer.
Nitrofreak reply :
On 1/14/2012 at 5:01 AM, lmoore said:I wasn't referring to yours at all. Hitting the egde of the mats can be and is more effective at times, but having the ability to go back into the thick stuff gives you the leg up on those who can't. That's all I meant.
I couldn't agree with you more !!
lmoore reply :
On 1/14/2012 at 5:09 AM, 1234567 said:The reason I went to a Gamakatsu EWG is because the first fish I caught on the Trokar I noticed it scraped the roof of the bass mouth from the back up to the front where it finally penetrated the bone. This scrape or drag mark the hook made was easily an inch long and I feel it should have penetrated in the back where it initially made contact. This lead me to believe that the Trokar hook was flexing a bit to much which was cause for concern flippin heavy stuff. I love the bait keeper and I'll try the toothpick and maybe that will help with the bait sitting in place for longer.
Hmm...interesting observation with the flexing. I hadn't ever noticed that when I used them, but I probably wasn't looking that closely. Was it a 5/0 hook? Part of the selling point of the Trokar hooks is the "unique tempering process" that's supposed to make the hooks stronger. I guess flexing is better than breaking, but I want a solid hook when I'm fishing for money.
1234567 reply :
It was a 5/0. I noticed this on two fish that day, may have been more but I didn't catch anymore !
1234567 reply :
I'm flippin with a Kistler broomstick right now. I would think that has PLENTY of backbone to get that hook to dig too.
lmoore reply :
That's no good. And yes, and extra heavy rod should have enough backbone to stick the magical point of a Trokar. LOL
I'll have to keep an eye on fish I catch the season on Trokars and see if that occurs.
Bassin_Fin@tic reply :
Couple of Quick sidenotes:
As with any lure or technique you have to experimant with retrieves and speeds. Keep changing it up. yes we all love the instant grab as soon as the bait sinks but I have found sometimes you have to pretty much deadstick it for a few seconds and maybe lightly jiggle it. Another thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is there are times when after pumping it once or twice you may want to try lifting it to the bottom of the mat and play with it there for a few seconds before lifting it out. These can be exciting strikes as you get a visual and the fish almost take it topwater. Though I get more of that type when flipping brush or thick cattail clumps. Just keep changing it up and almost always once you get a strike or two stick with that method.
As always a slight change in weight can make a difference of course depending on how thick the cover is. But if you can penetrate with less it is worth a shot at times. They may want more of a flutter or a heavy weight will get that violent reaction bite. If your really into it rig 2-3 rods with varying weights. Punching? you can pitch the bait basicly straight up in the air and then stop it with your thumb and make it cash down. if the mat is thick it really doesn't make that much commotion,it just kinda sucks it in. I mention that because just say you hit a spot where the weight your using doesn't quite seem to be enough,you can make it through sometimes by pitching it up in the air.
It can be a pain to flip where its windy but I like to definitely hit spots where the wind has been beating and especially if it is gathering large clumps of floating vegetation.
Many times in these situations if you catch one then pick the hell out of that area! A lot of times bass will congregate within a small key area based on wind current,or bottom composition,or where more than one type of cover or vegetation meets.I find that harder bottom areas if you can locate them are usually better than very silty muddy spots. If the bottom is all the same then well it doesn't matter.
Not sure what everyone elses opinions are but i have very often found that rattles can make a huge difference at times. Using a Paca craw? I like to stuff small pill shaped rattles inside them.
Not to get too technical but sometimes the action of the bait makes a difference too. A bait like a paca or a rage are pretty much my number one go to's around here but sometimes they may want something more subtle with a deadened action or more of a gliding effect. Brush hog,zoom critter craw,sweet beaver type,gambler b.b cricket. Experiment.
1234567 reply :
I went out again for three hours today and went to a different local canal. This canal is a little different as the weeds are thicker and I don't think it's managed at all. This canal definitely had mats that were like canopies over the lanes that bass travel through. Knowing this, I flipped right into the lanes in about 4 fow. I had 4 bites, hooked one that got off and caught one. I starting to really feel when that tick is alive and not just a weed or root, lol at least I think! I did vary pumping from top to bottom, letting it sit, jigging right below the mat and everything in between.
Bassin_Fin@tic reply :
Either way it sure sounds like fun to me!!! i'm kinda grounded so to speak on fishing these days!!
gobig reply :
QuoteAs with any lure or technique you have to experimant with retrieves and speeds. Keep changing it up. yes we all love the instant grab as soon as the bait sinks but I have found sometimes you have to pretty much deadstick it for a few seconds and maybe lightly jiggle it. Another thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is there are times when after pumping it once or twice you may want to try lifting it to the bottom of the mat and play with it there for a few seconds before lifting it out. These can be exciting strikes as you get a visual and the fish almost take it topwater. Though I get more of that type when flipping brush or thick cattail clumps. Just keep changing it up and almost always once you get a strike or two stick with that method.
I agree completely.
QuotePunching? you can pitch the bait basicly straight up in the air and then stop it with your thumb and make it cash down. if the mat is thick it really doesn't make that much commotion,it just kinda sucks it in. I mention that because just say you hit a spot where the weight your using doesn't quite seem to be enough,you can make it through sometimes by pitching it up in the air.
This can work. Sometimes I think this kind of entry gets their attention. But I have also seen where this detours the bite. Picking areas in the mat and Learning how to work the bait down through the cover takes some practice but can make for a rewarding day. Some cover is so thick that you don't have to many options in weight. In these cases you can use the spool tensioner to slow the fall.
As far as hooks go I use the ones sold by paycheck baits. They are made by Gamakatsu and IMO far out perform an EWG.
1234567 reply :
On 1/19/2012 at 1:52 AM, gobig said:I agree completely.
This can work. Sometimes I think this kind of entry gets their attention. But I have also seen where this detours the bite. Picking areas in the mat and Learning how to work the bait down through the cover takes some practice but can make for a rewarding day. Some cover is so thick that you don't have to many options in weight. In these cases you can use the spool tensioner to slow the fall.
As far as hooks go I use the ones sold by paycheck baits. They are made by Gamakatsu and IMO far out perform an EWG.
I noticed this today as well. I flipped some grass in 3 fow and kind of carelessly tossed it in there. After I took up the slack and engaged the reel I noticed a huge swirl that had came from below the grass and could see the wake heading out towards the middle. Needless to say, lesson learned and missed opportunity on a good fish.
J Francho reply :
You can use a "power flip" grab the line and spin the bait. Let go at the right moment so the bait smacks through the cover. Works well for lighter jigs in cover where it's mostly surface clutter that is think, and open below.
1234567 reply :
JFrancho,
Not sure if you're kidding or serious? Maybe Glenn can make a vid!
I'm not sure what you mean by spinning the bait.
J Francho reply :
Not kidding, I'll have to make a video of it.
james 14 reply :
I used this technique today to secure a win in a tournament on Lake Kissimmee. I had planned on punching some mats but never found any that I really liked. I hit a few with no success and then we decided to run to another part of the lake I figured would have fish staging to spawn. I had planned on trying a few other techniques but when we got there I found the exact type of mat I was looking for. We pulled in two fish in about an hour and then had to leave to weigh-in. One was a fat female. If we had been on that spot all day we would've slayed em but it turned out that wasn't necessary since the tough bite we had was much tougher for everyone else.
The mats were clear underneath...either hyacinth or floating debris...NOT topped out hydrilla
I didn't feel the bites at all. I set the hook and was surprised both times to hook into a fish. I pulled up and the lure was caught on something. Since the mats were clear underneath there was nothing for them to catch on except for a fish...SET THE HOOK!
1+ oz tungsten weights are almost a necessity.
Both fish hit on the fall...but that could be different on any given day. The first one actually hit after I pulled the bait up to bottom of the mat and let it fall again.
These were THICK mats. The first fish I ripped out and she just laid there on top of the mat without sinking in. Thicker mat = a better "blanket" = a LOT of fun getting a bait in and a fish OUT.
On a side note - 4 of the top 5 in the Everstart series on Lake O this weekend were punching mats. Tis the season. This is a specific new technique for me that I will be trying a LOT more in the future...especially in prespawn.
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