Could this have been a defensive move? 2024

earthworm77 reply :

The more I think about the 25lb bass and the extraordinary amount of people lined up to try to catch it, could the fish have been snagged intentionally to get it off the bed and out of reach of the other people? Perhaps setting up a record for a later date? Now that makes some sense but would that justify bringing it to the dock? I guess we will never know the truth.

RoLo reply :

That's possible, because these fellows are understandably obsessed (I'd be too).

In my gut I feel that Weakley was doing his level best to foul-hook the big cow

IN THE MOUTH, but unintentionally snagged her outside the mouth.

I made a post shortly "before" Weakley's unique catch:

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Presently, California has no more star performers like Miramar or Castaic,
where its best hope (only hope) is now Lake Dixon.

I believe that the real story here is the potential of Lake Dixon,

a potential that will wane over time as it has in every other case.

I also believe that Mac's 25-pounder is in Davy Jones Locker.

Roger

flechero reply :

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....In my gut I feel that Weakley was intentionally trying to foul-hook the big cow

IN THE MOUTH, which unintentionally found it's mark outside the mouth....

;D ;D ;D ;D Oh, you were serious????? Wouldn't it have been easier just to catch her than to try to "foul hook" her INSIDE the mouth?? Was he waiting for her to yawn or something?? Please tell me you were kidding, please....

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The more I think about the 25lb bass and the extraordinary amount of people lined up to try to catch it, could the fish have been snagged intentionally to get it off the bed and out of reach of the other people? Perhaps setting up a record for a later date?

Why would he do that if he was already the one on the fish? Doesn't make sense.

FL_fisher reply :

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....In my gut I feel that Weakley was intentionally trying to foul-hook the big cow

IN THE MOUTH, which unintentionally found it's mark outside the mouth....

;D ;D ;D ;D Oh, you were serious????? Wouldn't it have been easier just to catch her than to try to "foul hook" her INSIDE the mouth?? Was he waiting for her to yawn or something?? Please tell me you were kidding, please....

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The more I think about the 25lb bass and the extraordinary amount of people lined up to try to catch it, could the fish have been snagged intentionally to get it off the bed and out of reach of the other people? Perhaps setting up a record for a later date?

Why would he do that if he was already the one on the fish? Doesn't make sense.

Im sure that when he said in the mouth he meant threw the mouth NOT INSIDE the mouth.

For the second part if he tried to catch her the right way and couldnt he might of got the idea that if he wasnt going to catch her he will make sure no one else will eather.

flechero reply :

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For the second part if he tried to catch her the right way and couldnt he might of got the idea that if he wasnt going to catch her he will make sure no one else will eather.

I've read that these guys will sit on a fish all day, if needed. This fish came up pretty early in the morning so I don't think that was the case. Besides, he wasn't the only "trophy hunter" in the boat... so if he couldn't get it why not have the other(s) try?

I might be able to fathom that idea if he had been on her all day and this happend just before dark or when the park was about to close.

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Im sure that when he said in the mouth he meant threw the mouth NOT INSIDE the mouth.

That is the exact problem with all these threads about this particular fish... so many people think they know what others are thinking. (not to single you out, as this was a very minor example of this lately) All the speculation and assumption seems to lean to the side of wrong doing which is why a few of us have jumped on the defensive.

5bass reply :

I agree flechero,everything is total speculation.Nobody knows for sure what any other person is thinking or what goes through their head.Even the people who defend the guy,they dont know anything either,no more than the critics anyway.

The only thing factual in the whole mess is that the dude had caught and admitted he snagged by accident,a 25 pound bass,the biggest bass ever held live out of water,then he released it.

After that,the rest is total speculation.

EW,if he was wanting to set it up for a future catch,I highly doubt he would have paraded the thing around the dock or have it all over the internet.Plus,I dont see why he would've even considered catching it in the future when it was right there in front of him......that fish is a senior citizen and could die at any moment.

I do,however,think that after he realized that it was snagged and witnesses saw it was snagged,he made the decision to release it and possibly catch it another day.In my opinion,if all the other people had not noticed the fish was snagged,I think he would have carried on through with the IGFA process right then,but remember,that's just my opinion.

RoLo reply :

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Oh, you were serious????? Wouldn't it have been easier just to catch her than to try to "foul hook" her INSIDE the mouth?? Was he waiting for her to yawn or something?? Please tell me you were kidding, please....

Just place yourself in the same situation.

It's the task of the buck to protect the nest. Sometimes the male bass must be physically removed

and placed in the livewell in order to get a shot at the cow. Even when the cow is alone at the bedsite,

she'll try everything to intimidate a nest intruder without actually inhaling the lure.

If you've done any bed fishing, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Like a big apparition she'll be hovering over the intruder, time and time again.

It can become very frustrating when the cow bass refuses to actually pick up the lure.

Every time she tipped her nose down to bump the lure, I can picture him ripping it upward

in the hope of snagging her in the mouth area. Again, this is purely a gut-feeling on my part,

but I don't believe it's at all far-fetched. His blood-pressure was probably running about 200/125

and after all, she was snagged in the body.

Roger

Chris reply :

Just place yourself in the same situation.

OK I found a fish in 12 ft of water and I know not many other people will find the same fish so I got all the time in the world to catch it. I put my bait in the bed which takes some talent because it isn't as easy as 3 ft of water. I get a few bites but the bass is just moving it out of the bed and I can not seem to get a hook in it. I become impatient and tell myself that the next time that dang bass goes nose down on my bait if I even think the fish has the bait I will set the hook. The fish goes nose down to push a bluegill out of his bed and I think it is on my bait but because of the depth I can not see my bait and I feel a tick from the bass brushing against my line so I set the hook. Been there done that but I have never foul hooked a bass by doing it not to say it wouldn't happen.

Pa Angler reply :

While this big female weighs 25-1 now once she drops her eggs she'll probably lose 3 - 5lbs and anglers will have to wait another year to catch her. Did you see that fish on Basscenter her belly was like the size of a basket ball "UNREAL" if I was the one who caught it I would be in an emotional nuclear meltdown what a fish. But California law (as far as Basscenter stated) a snagged fish of any kind is an illegal catch and so wouldn't count as a record.

Chow

The Pa Angler

Captain Cali reply :

It's possible but I doubt it. If they have a shot at the fish they are going to take it. Just because they got her off the bed doesn't insure they will be the next to catch her so that would make it a very risky move that probably would not pay off. Sure they might have the best shot at her but it gives everyone else another shot also and now everyone knows how big she is. I don't think it was a defensive move at all. If anything this will hurt their chances with all the $$$$$$$ hunters that will now flock to Dixon.

cart7t reply :

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Just place yourself in the same situation.
Been there done that but I have never foul hooked a bass by doing it not to say it wouldn't happen.

With a jig even.

Again, I haven't seen the bait but I can count the number of fish I've foul hooked on a single hook lure on around 1 or 2 fingers.

FlyRod reply :

I'd lay even odds that the big bass is dead by now. The stress of being caught and handled probably did her in.

I believe that being out of the water, thus not having the water pressure to support her egg-laden belly, caused internal trauma sufficient to cause a slow death. Holding that fish, nose-up, was probably the "last straw". :'(

F.Rod

earthworm77 reply :

I'm not so sure about that. This fish seems to go through being dragged around on a stringer once every 4 or 5 years. I doubt that just because somebody like Mike Long claims to see the bass dead, really means it is dead. That could be just a ploy to relax some of the pressure on any given body of water. This fish will make news again.

Rattletrap reply :

The most critical time for that bass is after the spawn. She can't take being caught right after she lays her eggs. I have caught 6-7lbers right after the spawn that went belly up because of the stress of the fight. Hopefully that fish did not die.

guest reply :

that fish has undergone tremendous stress. She can't be a young bass. It would be a miracle if she survives another year.

You Dixon watchers.......Has she been spotted since being caught?

Chris reply :

"Could this have been a defensive move?"

The only defensive move would be where it was released. If they turned it loose far enough away from the bed it might not go back and if it has not fully spawned yet it might find a new nest or skip a year to spawn. It was smart on their part.

Rattletrap reply :

In a Basscenter interview, it was said that they and others tried to catch it the next couple of days.

flechero reply :

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that fish has undergone tremendous stress. She can't be a young bass. It would be a miracle if she survives another year.

Avid,

I don't disagree on the stress but I'm pretty sure that's what was said last time she was caught, and the time before that. The same thing is said all the time about big bass that are caught... yet they keep showing up again.

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Again, I haven't seen the bait but I can count the number of fish I've foul hooked on a single hook lure on around 1 or 2 fingers.

Cart7,

Happens all the time... fishing worms and lizards. They pick up the tail, begin to swim off and I set hook- I have probably done it 20 or more times on lizards over the past 20 years. If he was using a jig and it had a trailer of any length, it could happen just as easily.

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Even when the cow is alone at the bedsite,
she'll try everything to intimidate a nest intruder without actually inhaling the lure.

Rolo,

We all have caught (legit with hook inside mouth) females off a bed, MANY DO INHALE IT... I agree that some will not but many will and we weren't there to make the assumption that he tried to snag her.

RoLo reply :

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Rolo,
We all have caught (legit with hook inside mouth) females off a bed, MANY DO INHALE IT

I'm missing your point.

It's pretty obvious that "this" bass DID NOT INHALE IT, otherwise Mr. Weakley

would now be the new world-record holder. When I stated having a gut-feeling that Weakley

was intentionally trying to snag the cow in the mouth, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.

The alternative is worse!

All good things come to an end. I wouldn't get my hopes up too high for the reappearance

of ole Miss SnagSide. It's my guess that she's in Davy Jones's Locker :'(

Roger

Biglouie reply :

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Rolo,
We all have caught (legit with hook inside mouth) females off a bed, MANY DO INHALE IT

When I stated having a gut-feeling that Weakley

was intentionally trying to snag the cow in the mouth, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.

The alternative is worse!

I don't get it? How can the alternative be worse? I see the alternative as him accidentaly snagging it?

flechero reply :

Rolo,

I was actually confused on you original post. It sounded as if you were suggesting that females didn't take baits on a nest, that would suggest everyone snags females... I was only saying that they do in fact take the baits quite regularly, even if to simply clear the nest.

You may be right that "this" bas did not... on the other hand you may be wrong, it may have inhaled and expuled it quickly to "blow" it off or simply clear the nest site. We will never know, either way.

I doubt he would have give up that early, those guys will fish a bed all day if needed, this fish was hooked early in the morning.

I am truly curious about one thing though - why do you believe he snagged her intentionally?

Also, why do you think the fish is dead? I'm beginning to see a pessimistic trend of thoughts here. That may be our whole miscue... I'm a "the glass is half full" kind of guy.

I'm fine with us simply seeing things a different way but like I have said before, it bugs me to see so much negative speculation about a person with no track record to match it.

RoLo reply :

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You may be right that "this" bas did not... on the other hand you may be wrong, it may have inhaled and expuled it quickly to "blow" it off or simply clear the nest site. We will never know, either way.

I agree flechero. By the way, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your reply.

With enough time invested, I would imagine that most cows could ultimately be coerced into inhaling

the lure. Nevertheless, it's still safe to say that the overwhelming majority of time will be spent

without success. Mac's bass was no exception, except that it wasn't just a bass, but the heaviest bass

in recorded history! Every time that bass tipped down on his lure without actually picking it up,

I can empathize with his anxiety. Even if she picked it up and promptly blew it out, that would only add

to his frustration. I'm not picking on Weakley, because I'm pretty sure that you and I might be a tad

frazzled too (I know I would).

Despite playing dumb, Weakley knew full well that a bass in California was only legal if hooked

in the mouth area. Still, the idea of snagging the mouth to ****** the record would cross the mind

of any angler (save comatose). The reason I have a hunch that he actually tried to do this

was based on the outcome, the bass was indeed foul-hooked. It can be difficult sometimes

to snag a fish intentionally, so the likelihood of snagging it by accident is even lower.

I realize that it was very likely an accident, but remember we're only talking about gut feelings here.

It goes without saying, I have no idea what happened and I never will. More importantly,

my gut-feelings shouldn't mean anything to anyone. I only mentioned that casually in reference to

another post where I pinpointed Dixon Lake as the best Californian hope (before the Mac incident).

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Also, why do you think the fish is dead?

The weight of buck bass tends to plateau around 6 lbs, whereas cow bass grow significantly heavier.

Statistics have shown that when a cow bass reaches 9-lbs in weight, the odds of her participating

in one more spawn are stacked strongly against her. Okay, the bass in question was a freak,

a bass with undeniable genetic superiority and exquisite physical fitness. In my view,

she already accomplished more than I'd ever expect from a super bass, like a cat on her 9th life.

Her recent ordeal and long stint out of her element, to my mind was her swan song.

It's really not as sad as it sounds, because I'm sure that other world-record bass have gone belly-up

without any recognition at all. I'm really not trying to be pessimistic, only realistic.

Roger

flechero reply :

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I agree flechero. By the way, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your reply.

I'm sorry that I didn't change my tune a little sooner... I guess like most people, I have been caught up in these WR threads. I know I have called out some of your comments and responded to posts in a way I normally wouldn't. The funny thing is that we agree on most of this and I think we only differ on the initial gut feeling. (although I'll still tell myself she lived to be caught again!) ...lol

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I'm pretty sure that you and I might be a tad
frazzled too (I know I would).

No kidding there! I still get the shakes on big fish... luckily though, it normally hits me right after it's in the boat. Would my luck hold on that fish... I bet not!! ...lol (If I ever stop getting the shakes on big fish, I suspect I'll find a new hobby)

Take care,

Keith

Mattlures reply :

The fish will be fine. it has been caught twice before and both times it was handled way more than this time. The last time it was caught it weighed 22lbs 9oz but it took the fish and game several hours to get there and she had spilled some of her eggs so the oficail weight was 21lbs 11oz.

Any ways to answer the question of has anybody seen it YES it hung around the same bed but was never much more than a big dark shadow. It was a zoo. Guys had their aquviews and were all over the place. The fish will probably spawn at night or do it deep. The recent events will not kill that fish if it dies its because it is old. Acording to Mike Long who took scale samples when he caught it it is 16-17 years old.

guest reply :

Flechero. Yes, it's true that this has been said before, but not by me. I really think this is the last we will see of this particular bass. Time will tell.

flechero reply :

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Flechero. Yes, it's true that this has been said before, but not by me. I really think this is the last we will see of this particular bass. Time will tell.

Avid,

I wasn't calling you out on it, many people have said it. And many people say something similar whenever a BIG fish gets caught and released. But this fish has proved that they can live on for a long time to come. This may have been her last time but she has lived way longer than people thought she could which only proves we are not as smart as we think, or that much of our research is flawed, on the lifespan of Bass.

Even if this particular fish is a freak of nature that lived longer than any others, it shows me that we have been wrong about these big and old bass.

There are enough people watching her now that if she goes belly up, we will probably hear about it.

bobo reply :

Of course, she may be planted to the bottom with that 3lb weight they tossed in her and we'll never see her

RoLo reply :

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she may be planted to the bottom with that 3lb weight they tossed in her

That's not the way I got it.

I heard that they took her out to the middle of the lake, buried a hook solidly in her mouth,

tied a line to the hook, then buoy-marked the jumbo spool of 50-lb mono, and then released her.

JUST KIDD'N.....JUST KIDD'N ;D ;D > > ;D ;D

Roger

earthworm77 reply :

The reason why I asked this question was this:

On March 14th of this year, I learned of this fish being caught by someone out in California who is in the big bass circle. The weight, the person and the facts, pretty much dead on par with what was reported on March 20th. Now, the story broke a full six days before this catch was made public but the report said that the fish was caught on the 20th. Initially I thought it was just another April Fools joke come a little early but then I got some calls from my Staffers out there and it seemed to be legit.

Was it a smokescreen and did it really happen at Dixon. These guys are notorious for giving false info. After all Mike Long claimed this fish was dead several years ago and that he saw it floating on the surface.....I guess not.

I think there is more to this than a simply lone gunman theory.

flechero reply :

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I think there is more to this than a simply lone gunman theory.

If that is true, why add to the B.S.?

At this point, why claim info from a source? At least lend some credibility to your story and make up a name or something. Instead of another week of "I heard this" and "no but I heard this" etc., etc., etc. why not just come out with it, if this "source" is in fact real. If you have any real interest in finding out the truth, why the secrecy?

That sounds more "fishy" than everyone claims the story itself to be. But if, however, your story is correct... what then do we think (or believe) of all the witnesses on the scene... maybe ALL the witnesses have lied, and lied big.

Your "source" probably heard that this fish was spotted and not caught...

Besides, I think that anyone that knows dixon could look at the video and see where they are.

You are a week late with "new" speculation and conspiracy theory.

*Edited for decency. KN. Apoligies to anyone that saw the original.

guest reply :

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Could this have been a defensive move?

You bet they were in posession of an illegal fish.... It was no better than if they had jumped the fence and poached that fish after hours.

What I want to know is how in the world did anyone of those guys in that click know for sure that, that bass was one that they had caught before.

Did they tag and track that fish?, did they tatoo it with an identifying mark (beside the snag hole)?. You can bet it isn't the only big bass in that 80 acre puddle.

I know that Mike Long stated he took scale samples for age verification (when he supposedly caught it) but how does he know it was the same bass he took the samples from.

How do they know for sure?

Tight Lines!

Captain Cali reply :

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What I want to know is how in the world did anyone of those guys in that click know for sure that, that bass was one that they had caught before.

Did they tag and track that fish?, did they tatoo it with an identifying mark (beside the snag hole)?. You can bet it isn't the only big bass in that 80 acre puddle.

I know that Mike Long stated he took scale samples for age verification (when he supposedly caught it) but how does he know it was the same bass he took the samples from.

How do they know for sure?

Tight Lines!

Even better. Then that means there are more of them in the lake!!

Mattlures reply :

Earthworm I know who Photoman is and even though it was close to being right, it was an april fools joke. Just one heck of a coincidence. But Photoman is in the know and hei recent posta are acurrate. I am in the know sometimes too

cart7t reply :

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Cart7,

Happens all the time... fishing worms and lizards. They pick up the tail, begin to swim off and I set hook- I have probably done it 20 or more times on lizards over the past 20 years. If he was using a jig and it had a trailer of any length, it could happen just as easily.

Like I said, I've been fishing over 30 years and I can count the number of fish I've foul hooked using a single hook lure on one hand. I don't know how you're fishing but most of those scenarios wind up with me reeling back in half a worm or none at all. As for this fish, it was snagged up by the dorsal fin. I'm still trying to figure the physics out on the chance of snagging a fish that high up on the body with any lure. The line was clearly over the top of the fish if it was snagged that high. If I pull on the line the jig will ride up the side of the fish with the hook point in a position not possible to hook into the side of the fish. The only way I could see a jig snagging a fish in the location where this fish was, is if it wasn't a single hook jig but had a treble hook. If the jig had a treble hook, which I have heard initial reports that it did have, then I'm more suspicious of the intent of these guys. If your pitching a treble hooked jig into a bed and proceeding to blindly set the hook, like this guy did on numerous occasions, then I'd say he's intentionally trying to snag the fish and as far as I'm concerned this guy has no intergrity with me at all. Cheap fishing.

Mattlures reply :

The Jig had no trailer, meaning NO TREBLE. I foul hook about 20 percent of my bed fish. Usualy its on the outside of the mouth but a few times it has been in the cheek and I have caught a couple by the dorsal. What happens is you see the fish inhale and you swing as the fish is exhailing the bait. The dorsal type snagg happens when the fish is facing away from youand your line is over its shoulder. You see the the fish go twards your bait. You see it flair its gill as it inhales. You might see your line tick but usualy at this point you are reasonaly sure the fish sucked it in. So you swing and you swing hard. Now sometimes the fish may not have even sucked it in but usualy it has. most foul hooking occures when yoou set the hook as the fish is spitting the bait. A jig will roll over and stick if swung hard and the dorsal is definatly a spot ware the hook will stick.

Again look at the facts. They were using a jig, no trailer. They caught the fish at around 8 in the morning witch means they had only bee on it for an hour or two. They knew what that fish was. Those are the facts. by their actions of releasing the fish so quickly and not waiting for certification it is reasonable to assume they knew it wouldnt count. They knew it was their shot. I think it is absolutyabsurd to think Mac tried to snagg it. His best friend caught it before and Mike Long caught it before him. the fish would bite and probably did. He just misjudged nd the rest is history. Maybe if these guys were rookies then they might throw in the towel after an hour but be reasonable. Two of the three guys in that boat have caught bed fish that are listed in the top 25 of all time. They would not purposly blow their chance especialy with wittnesses watching them fish for her.

Glenn reply :

I think it was a publicity stunt by Ike!

K_Mac reply :

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I think it was a publicity stunt by Ike!

Troublemaker

earthworm77 reply :

Felch, next time, I'll run it by you first to make sure you approve. :

Whether the information I got was right or wrong, I certainly wouldn't post that persons name, that is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. That would pretty much kill any privleged info coming my way in the future. If I told you Mr. Brown gave me that info, does it really matter. I too want to know what really happened.

Matt, that guy was really close with just about everything he said. I know you are in the know, you just never answer your emails. lol Any truth to a 21.5 caught yesterday at ?Shasta?

Mattlures reply :

Yes A freind of mine caught it. 21.5 but I wont say wich lake. I will say it when he does. I dont know wich emails i havent answered but I believe you. Send them to my website. i am usualy pretty good about answering them.

there are more big bass over 20lbs and a few over the WR that a few of us know about. Its only a matter of time.

Also for the doubters, look at the picture of Mike Winn holding Macs bass. Look just under his hand and see the black spot. That is how we know its the same fish. Its name is Pokadot

flechero reply :

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Flech, next time, I'll run it by you first to make sure you approve. :
Whether the information I got was right or wrong, I certainly wouldn't post that persons name, that is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. That would pretty much kill any privleged info coming my way in the future. If I told you Mr. Brown gave me that info, does it really matter. I too want to know what really happened.

When you post info a week after the catch and 2 weeks after you got it, from some anonymous source... it comes across like a made up "lets keep the story alive" kind of talk. I would have been more inclined to belive it at this late stage if you had said "a friend of mine, john doe said....."

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Earthworm I know who Photoman is and even though it was close to being right, it was an april fools joke.

Looks like "Mr. Brown" had a little fun with you after all.

earthworm77 reply :

If photoman was my source you would be correct. ;D

Perhaps the person who told me heard it from him. Doesn't matter. This thread is surely better than another Ike thread.

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