Does anybody know why gas outboards are so expensive? I mean a ten hp motor costs over a thousand bucks. I could probably jery rig a cheap go cart motor that would do the same thing, right?
I saw a jerry rigged weed eater outboard on Swamp People. I've always wanted to try that.
They are no longer just cylinders, pistons, and a carb.
My roommate bought his Mercury 350CSi-CXXL for just shy of 22 grand. I spent that much building my S10. Just too much for my blood. But as long as there is noney, people will want to buy the most unique, newest, most wanted item.
Supply, demand and Government regulation!
Only thing the government is doing so far is phasing out my 2 stroke.
I guess I don't know why you are surprised? Look at any comparison... Heck, a brand new honda 10hp mower motor is $700. More goes into a boat motor.
Hey now, my Honda mower is turning heads in the neighborhood...
It is because people are willing to spend that much money. Just in my opinion its kind of like cigarettes no matter how much they cost people are still going to find a way to buy it.
Boat dealers generally don't sell big numbers of boats and motors. In order to stay in business, they need to make a profit. If everybody had a boat like they do cars, there would be more sales. More sales means it would get cheaper to build each motor. More sales also means they could live with a lower profit margin on each motor which would bring the price down.
Right, so since I'm already building my boat, I should get one of these:
seattle.craigslist.org/oly/for/4909892395.html
And put a prop on it, right?
Don't forget the research and development costs which are quite high for outboard motors.
The "simple" old Johnson and Evinrude models we used when I grew up in the 60's are no match for the more powerful and fuel efficient motors of today.
To have all that horsepower necessary to power the heavier boats increases the costs.
Anything "Marine" related is twice as much as it should be. "Marine" cleaner wax = $16...Maguires cleaner wax "for a car" = $4.99...and the list goes on and on. The marine industry rapes us every day. There is absolutely no reason these motors should cost this much.
Most boat are "toys". Men's toys are expensive.
As I read I chuckle a little... Doesn't anyone really know? Some are one the right track, like added R&d cost, it's a hobby or luxury... But have you ever looked at the parts inside a marine engine? Have you ever wondered why the old 2 strokes lasted so long? The engines are built better. Car/truck engines use a sleeve type bearing, but marine or at least the old ones used all roller bearings. There's is quite a large price difference in the base cost of the the bearings as well and the set machine set up for the rod caps and journals. And as long as those old bears get oil and don't over heat they are going to last! They were made with all good quality chrome. You will also notice they are sitting in water all the time so everything has to corrosion resist, and they try to use metals that will resist electrolysis due to metals alkalids or calcum in the water. All this goes into R&d as they try to make sure they build a tuff engine that hold up,the crappy fuel regulations the EPA keeps pushing with ethonal, in with a gas engine is not designed to run with added maintance... theres a reasone race cars use it and street cars don't!
Making engines lighter, also means using a alloy that is stronger, a and that means trying to match metals that have similar expansion and contraction rates so you don't have issues with gaskets blowing and bolts pulling threads like some of the auto makers have with there great ideas!
All this adds up, and yes add that to a luxury and you get $$$$.$$ X2!
No hobby is cheap, if you do find one let me know cuz I sure would like to know how keep my wife off my back! Lol
My 15 horsepower 4 stroke mercury is more expensive than a brand new motor for my jeep. That has just hit me...
Break
Out
Another
Thousand
They don't call it a hole in the water that you throw money into for nothing...
Krappiehog hit the nail on the head. Add that to a much lower sales volume when compared to cars, and you have your answer.
On 3/2/2015 at 10:15 AM, zachb34 said:My 15 horsepower 4 stroke mercury is more expensive than a brand new motor for my jeep. That has just hit me...
Doesn't say much about Jeep
On 3/2/2015 at 10:15 AM, zachb34 said:My 15 horsepower 4 stroke mercury is more expensive than a brand new motor for my jeep. That has just hit me...
Exactly. Like I said I am building a boat soon. But I am also thinking about an engine swap for my truck. I'd be better off doing the swap and putting the old motor in my boat!!! Too bad my boat is too small.
It's not just outboards, it wasn't too long ago you could build a strong engine for your car for a couple thousand dollars, now it's 10-20 thousand to ever how much you care to spend. I'm looking at building a turbo charged, LS 408 stroker motor for my truck and it's looking like it's going to cost about 20 grand. Six grand just for the turbo, over two grand just for an exhaust system, five grand for the transmission. It will be pushing 30 grand when done. So, it ain't just outboards.
Mark up at the retail level is 40%. As noted, volume is low compared to cars and trucks. Extreme engineering is very expensive. Even though the cost makes your eyes pop out, the modern outboard is an awesome engine. Efficient, clean, quite and powerful plus way more durable than past models. And now in four cycle. Yes,
Its just like gas and oil ,demand all the hard work is done way more white collar workers then there are blue collar when it comes to huge industries.cars are made by robots same as boat motors back in the day you would have 100 workers on the floor banging wrenches now you have 1000 pencil necks and 10 wrench bangers
Go take a tour of any local manufacturing plant.
Things cost money to make. There's value added all across the supply chain.
If you want cheaper buy Chinese. You will be disappointed with the quality.
I've never really posted here but this one made me post !
Cheers
Not sure if things have changed, but I agree with all those who said marine engineering is wildly different.
I am 5 years into ownership of an ocean front cottage - and the salt water environment is unbelievable. A simple swim raft with proper anchors and chains that wont corrode and rust cost about 4 times what the uninitiated would estimate due to the materials involved.
Great discussion.
On 3/2/2015 at 10:15 AM, zachb34 said:My 15 horsepower 4 stroke mercury is more expensive than a brand new motor for my jeep. That has just hit me...
you aren't going to find a brand new motor for a jeep for cheaper than a 15HP 4 stroke motor.
So $3k for a motor made up of hundreds (or is it thousands) of parts, several different manufacturing processes, a computer board or two, and precise tolerances is a lot, but $400-$600 for 4 oz of graphite is what?....
Fourscore and four years ago...
Check out the prices on organic no stir peanut butter. Store brand is $20 for two jars. Think about that. Saw some “cold pressed” organic OJ that was $16 for a quart.
Today's outboard engines are as sophisticated as automobile engines in an effort to increase hp per lb and decrease emissions improving fuel burned per hour. Your auto engine doesn't include a transmission and drive train, the outboard also includes a transmission and drive train as one integral assembly and prop.
My 1970 Evinrude 9.5 hp OB cost $700, small OB's weren't inexpensive back then, it cost as much as the boat and trailer. You could buy an inexpensive air cooled noisy Eska OB back then and still can today, can't operate it in California however, doesn't meet out emissions standards.
Tom
I didn't read through all of the replies, so if this was mentioned, I apologise. You're also buying a transmission. Gearing isn't cheap.
Also, unlike a car motor, marine motors are designed to turn high rpms for extended periods of time. I have never run my truck at 5k+ rpms for a half hour at a clip.
Outboards are pricey because you get a starter, alternator, engine, fuel injection, transmission,and "wheels" all in one package. It's basically everything under the hood of a car and under the car. Inboard motors are much cheaper by comparison. Also there is a phrase in business that says "what the market will bear." I had issues with this. So, I gave up my AC business because I felt like I was robbing people if I charged what I SHOULD have been charging. If a business cannot be profitable there is no point in being in business. I hate it but if I followed the "what the market will bear" rule, I'd still be in business and a lot richer. In the end it really does all balance out if everyone tries to make as much money as possible. Try being the "nice guy" and you will go broke and pull your hair out in the process.
On 3/2/2015 at 11:14 AM, Long Mike said:Krappiehog hit the nail on the head. Add that to a much lower sales volume when compared to cars, and you have your answer.
Yes.
Economies of scale.
Few are sold relative to numbes on cars/trucks, but it costs just as much to develop and refine the product.
We have a Ford Edge. Ford has sold 1,340,065 of them, since 2006....and they use engines and transmissions and lot's of other parts that are common to other models (The Edge is built on the same platform as the Ford Fusion, Mazda CX-9, first and second generation Mazda 6 and Lincoln MKX, among others.)
Mercury can't even come close to those kinds of numbers...
On 3/2/2015 at 7:09 AM, Smokinal said:Anything "Marine" related is twice as much as it should be. "Marine" cleaner wax = $16...Maguires cleaner wax "for a car" = $4.99...and the list goes on and on. The marine industry rapes us every day. There is absolutely no reason these motors should cost this much.
Again economies of scale. How many boats are there in the US? How many car/trucks?
On 4/25/2015 at 9:26 PM, Emdexpress said:Mark up at the retail level is 40%. As noted, volume is low compared to cars and trucks. Extreme engineering is very expensive. Even though the cost makes your eyes pop out, the modern outboard is an awesome engine. Efficient, clean, quite and powerful plus way more durable than past models. And now in four cycle. Yes,
That's true...but many people think that "mark up" = profit.
It doesn't. That markup has to help support the costs of running the dealership. Salaries, benefits, power, paying for the building, water/sewer, taxes...
It's very much not a 1:1 return.
One thing not mentioned yet, but that is important, is that the duty cycle of marine engines is really heavy duty compared to cars. They operate at wide open throttle much more than auto engines. It takes very little HP to move a car down the road at 70 mph, and wide open throttle accelerations are rare compared with marine. What this means is major money for heavy duty components.
Also, as has been mentioned, the emissions requirements require a lot of sophisticated electronics, sensors, etc. That is similar to cars, which have gotten very expensive, too.
The good news is that with proper care, most will last a very long time. My 20 year old 4 stroke Suzuki ran like it was new when I sold it. I sold for a better boat, not for a better engine.
I know it applies to boat manufacturers and I assume engine manufacturers — can you imagine what liability insurance costs a manufacturer?
Well, IMHO-- I think it's a Luxury item...so prices are higher...and it's complicated to get a boat loan because of it being a Luxury item...lender know that at some point when financial times get tough and you have a loan on a boat..they know mostly likely the boat will be repossessed vs being sold
I paid $600 for a silencer for my 30 caliber rifle. It’s basically just a fancy steel tube. How many silencers would a manufacturer have to move per day to make a decent living? You figure even a one man shop needs a couple hundred in clear profit per unit just to stay afloat. How many motors does a boat dealer sell in a day?
When I was a kid, candy bars were a nickel, a loaf of bread was 12 cents. Popsicles were a nickel and ice cream bars and sandwiches were a dime.
The cheapest price for gas that I purchased was fifteen cents per gallon. In 1966 we bought a new Pontiac GTO convertible with four speed standard shift transmission, three two barrel carbs, positraction rear end and an am/fm radio. Bottom line on the sticker was a cool 2700 dollars give or take a few bucks.
Why do cars cost so much today?
Build (and sell) a cheaper one then.