Clear Lake Hitch Is Now A Threatened Species 2024
Slade House reply :
well you can thank the evil nazi's at the center for biological diversity , yesterday the CA DFG listed the clear lake hitch as threatened
"recovery measures needed for hitch include removing or retrofitting barriers to fish migration, improving instream water flows, restoring fish to former spawning streams, and reducing predation by invasive fish near the mouths of spawning streams — actions that will also benefit many other native wildlife species in the Clear Lake basin.
well another awesome bass fishing lake that is going to be destroyed by the endangered species act.
iceintheveins reply :
They do this in Colorado over suckers, chubs, and squawfish. It hasn't helped numbers of endangered fish at all. We can only pray they won't do this to clear lake. I'm tired of endangered species hogwash.
OroBass reply :
Sometimes its just better to leave nature alone
gulfcaptain reply :
I wouldn't worry, CA is broke. They don't have the money for anything they propose. They can't even afford enough DFG Officers to actually inforce regulations we already have let alone try and take on a new project. I could see them trying to spawn and restock them....but then when they dump them in the lake be ready for the feeding frenzy from the birds and fish.
iceintheveins reply :
We can only hope. No fish that's endangered has ever been removed from the list, and killing the other fish around it has never helped.
WRB reply :
A few wet years will bring things back to normal. Having lived in CA over 70 years brings things into perspective.
I wanted to fish the Casitas super moon event tonight, should be a good. The frog bite is on and crankbaits should be good for this tournament. Off topic and just venting.
The Clear lake hitch population has been in trouble for about a decade, endangered specie act was in the works for awhile. The drought will impact the population further and 6 to 8 years from now the impact will show up in smaller average size bass....it's cyclical.
Tom
2833-34497 reply :
There is a thread on another well known forum on is "Clear Lake in trouble" and well known and respected folks (including Matt Allen) posting about anglers unifying over this to make sure nothing goes south while protecting the Clear Lake Hitch, since the Bass are considered a "voracious predators" of Hitch that congregate at the mouth of tributary stream during spawning season the group has said in its petition to protect the species!! Remember the Bass is a nonnative species in all this which could swing decisions against it saving a native species, so hopefully everyone is at the table to makes sound decisions like habitat improvements/protects for the Hitch, etc. versus controlling or negatively impact species like Bass IMHO!! It was also mentioned in the thread that Lake County believes grapes are their future and fisherman and their loud boats are viewed as a nuisance!
I don't live to close to Clear Lake, but it if you get the groups together that want to protect the Hitch, don't like the fishing boats, etc. things could go south quickly for the Bass since I'm sure allot of the fisherman may not live in that area to vote, IMHO!
starcraft1 reply :
This fight is going to have to be led by the 3 tackle shops on Clear lake. Bob (Limit-out) holds a lot of weight on the lake & Troy & Dave (Clear lake outdoors) will join in with Bob, and Jimmy (Clear lake bait & tackle) has gotten in with some heavy weights in their local govt. I know the manageing editor of Lake ports news paper, I'll give her a call to find out more about the hitch problem and what's being done about it right now. If the bleeding heart democrats think bass boats are "noisey" wait untill wake board boats full of drunks and their getto blaster rap gets out there!
This is one of the reasons N. Cal. needs to break off and become the state of Jefferson.
I sell a lot of jigs and jig heads on that pond.
Supermat reply :
Its a real problem. The center for biological diversity led the lawsuit that ended trout stocking in many of our lakes. Some lakes have resumed planting but most have not. It happens that quickly. "Native" species matter more than "invasive" species and "threatened" species matter most of all. Turning a blind eye will not get us anywhere. This IS happening and there are plenty of negative examples around the state and nation that show what talking heads in a courtroom can do to a lake once they decide one species matters more than another.
As much as I love the shops around Clearlake, I would not expect a lot of help to come from them. Of the three, Clearlake Outdoors will take an interest for sure but a group of people looking to push an agenda will not take a lot of inspiration from a tackle shop.
I'm not trying to put a negative spin out there, I'm trying to be realistic. Raising a united voice against what is being done is the best approach. I've seen the "science" they've used to make these rulings and its appalling. I'm on that lake day in and day out and see the hitch's movements on a regular basis. While they're spouting about zero hitch in Adobe this year (the mouth had a sandbar in it) thousands of hitch successfully spawned just one bay over. They didn't all die, they moved. I've attempted to share that information with the biologists to no avail. The reality is, there is a political agenda that has very little to do with hitch. They are a stepping stone in a greater picture so if you want to save your bass, knuckle down for a fight because whatever we're seeing in front of us is not the true battle at all.
Sure I'm just a fisherman but I'm a fisherman with a lot of time on the water. That time has allowed me to see a lot of things that directly dispute the incomplete science being used in the court room.
That's enough for a 7 AM rant. :-)
iceintheveins reply :
On 8/22/2014 at 7:41 PM, 2833-34497 said:There is a thread on another well known forum on is "Clear Lake in trouble" and well known and respected folks (including Matt Allen) posting about anglers unifying over this to make sure nothing goes south while protecting the Clear Lake Hitch, since the Bass are considered a "voracious predators" of Hitch that congregate at the mouth of tributary stream during spawning season the group has said in its petition to protect the species!! Remember the Bass is a nonnative species in all this which could swing decisions against it saving a native species, so hopefully everyone is at the table to makes sound decisions like habitat improvements/protects for the Hitch, etc. versus controlling or negatively impact species like Bass IMHO!! It was also mentioned in the thread that Lake County believes grapes are their future and fisherman and their loud boats are viewed as a nuisance!
I don't live to close to Clear Lake, but it if you get the groups together that want to protect the Hitch, don't like the fishing boats, etc. things could go south quickly for the Bass since I'm sure allot of the fisherman may not live in that area to vote, IMHO!
Very true. The rich enviros have a lot of power. I hope if it comes to that and they start killing bass that someone goes vigilante on their butts. No endangered fish has ever been aided by trying to kill a nonnative species. It is almost always habitat degradation that harms native fish. In my mind too, sport fish trump obscure or rough fish, and it's that way with the majority of sportsmen and the public in general, but California is very liberal with lots of enviro extremists so this could be a DANGEROUS thing for clear lake. Stress habitat improvement and show opposition to any removal of sportfish. Mechanical removal of sportfish is relatively ineffective anyway, at worst causing moderate declines of the fishery (but this is unacceptable in a place like clear lake). It's also hugely expensive.
Remember when Lake Davis was twice poisoned to kill pike, and each time the Game and Fish said it would "kill every single pike"? WRONG, the pike have returned both times (although at this time the numbers of them are still fairly small). Once a nonnative fish is in a system, for all intensive purposes you cannot get rid of it and long term, permanent declines are RARE. So it's a total waste of time and money, and as far as it not helping native fish, science is on your side. But most biologists in western states are driven and controlled by environmental extremists so they are NOT to be trusted.
gulfcaptain reply :
It's like Matt Said, they have an agenda. Growing up and trying to make a living in the sportfishing industry came to a crashing end when they made rules to save "endangered" fish we didn't even fish for or want to keep. Now they have huge areas that are closed to all fishing to protect what they feel are key areas. Even after years of battling them we got a small victory but it took away a lot of great fishing areas. They don't care about the science they didn't collect or what fisherman or comercial (professional fisherman) have to say or what imput we have. It is a true uphill battle that is one sided and unfortunately it isn't our side even though 99% of fisherman would love to protect the same thing they do to keep intact the fisheries. But theirs is an extreme all or nothing way that doesn't include working with people that have other ideas and want compromise.
iceintheveins reply :
I even argued with a couple people on this forum who think that endangered species should be protected above all else, no matter how much it costs or no matter how many sportfish (oops invasive) fish they damage to "help" the natives. I don't think that way and neither do most anglers and the general public.
flyfisher reply :
yeah, i was one of those people. I know I wouldn't want to have any part in being responsible for completely eradicating a species from existence so i can catch a fish or two, especially if i knew it was possible....it is about as selfish as it comes in my mind but everyone has their own thoughts....
Supermat reply :
Flyfisher, I see your point. If I really thought this fight was about Hitch my stand would be geared toward finding a true compromise that would protect all of that species. What I really believe is happening is an intertwining of multiple political issues. Not far away is the California Delta. The Delta is a battle ground right now for state water rights issues. Plan are being made (and being fast tracked to completion) to bypass the Delta all together and take the water South.
Having the largemouth become an "invasive species" at Clearlake sets the precedent needed to push the Delta tunnels through.
With stripers already considered invasive, the largemouth following suit makes the argument to let the Delta's water quality fall to the wayside a much simpler argument.
Additionally, I've seen more hitch in the last 12 months than in the last 10 years combined. Their population is booming! Its growing in portions of the lake that it wasn't in, in recent years. If anything, they are on the rise because they're adapting to changing depths and water quality.
2833-34497 reply :
So the question becomes how do fisherman help gear things towards a true comprise by improving habitat for the Hitch which would help the health of the lake overall, as well as other species. Has a group been formed fishermen can get behind? If the Hitch are adapting then adding habitat improvements would help enhance Hitch recovery more also I would think. More then likely they see no Hitch in creeks and say they are declining and of course the drought adds to all that also.
I also live in farther north and haven't fished the Delta or Clear Lake much for the quieter lakes and rivers near me, but don't the Salmon and Steelhead use the Delta water? They're protected and should help protect the water rights shouldn't they, so they can't do that? I mean if a hidden political agenda is behind this by having different angling groups unite. Salmon, Trout and Steelhead groups have worked towards improvements, but until now their hasn't been much need to protect the bass. Well I'm getting tired and have to get up early, so enough for now and hope this makes sense!
The reason I ask these questions is if you read the link on the last paragraph you want to help make sure controlling invasive species doesn’t become the main focus IMHO, but the last thing since restoration would help the whole lake more benefiting everything IMHO.
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2014/clear-lake-hitch-08-07-2013.html
Slade House reply :
Gentlemen, The CEnter for biological diversity has blocked me from commenting on their facebook page and deleted all the comments i made over the past few months. But here is something i dug up in my hours and hours of research its called the "black bass act of 1980" this was something that the CA state legislature passed. Do you know what the DFW has done to satsify this law? they designated one "bass trophy lake" in each of the 6 districts, and when you catch a fish over 10lbs you get a certificate. Sounds like the DFW isn't following the law, kind of like the CBD sues when the DFW isn't following the ESA, why can't we use this law to sue? the pacific legal foundation are the people we need to talk to , they are the main organization against all this ***.
FISH AND GAME CODE
SECTION 1740-1743
1740. This chapter shall be known as the Black Bass Conservation
and Management Act of 1980.
1741. The Legislature hereby finds and declares that it is the
policy of the state to preserve and enhance black bass resources and
to manage black bass populations to provide satisfactory recreational
opportunities to the public.
1742. The Legislature further finds and declares that the black
bass management program components specified in this chapter are a
continuation of the department's existing warmwater fisheries
program, and, as such, shall be funded from existing department
budgetary resources.
1743. (a) The department's black bass management program shall
include, but not be limited to, the following components:
(1) The department shall determine the angler harvest of black
bass populations and shall recommend to the commission the changes in
angling regulations for black bass that would be necessary to
prevent or correct overharvest.
(2) The department shall consider recommending to the commission
catch and release regulations for black bass, including minimum or
maximum size restrictions and management for trophy-sized black bass
in some waters.
(3) The department shall consider the suitability of the many
different species, subspecies, and strains of black bass when
management programs are formulated.
(4) The department shall improve shoreline habitat for black bass
in waters where insufficient habitat exists and shall encourage
reservoir operating agencies to carry out shoreline habitat
improvement projects.
(
For the purposes of this section, "black bass" means fishes of
the Centrarchidae family.
iceintheveins reply :
Nice find!
iceintheveins reply :
The center for biological diversity is an eco purist extreme organization who wants NO diversity, only native, useless fish. Their idea of diversity are sport fish free zones.
iceintheveins reply :
On 8/26/2014 at 10:52 AM, flyfisher said:yeah, i was one of those people. I know I wouldn't want to have any part in being responsible for completely eradicating a species from existence so i can catch a fish or two, especially if i knew it was possible....it is about as selfish as it comes in my mind but everyone has their own thoughts....
The general angling public and general population disagrees with your view. Nonnative fish do not push natives to the brink of extinction. It is habitat loss through water development. The eco purists and the water developers team together to use nonnative fish as a scapegoat so water development can continue.
BTW, most of Colorado is not biologically suited for trout, but for warm water species. Only in the higher elevations is it trout country. Most of Colorado is desert like Utah, Nevada, or Cali. I believe that trying to harm beloved sportfisheries with expensive and hated projects to "aid" rough fish is BEYOND SELFISH! It's government tyranny at it's finest.
iceintheveins reply :
That being said flyfisher, you are entitled to your views. Not trying to make it a personal attack. Just disagree, that's all.
2833-34497 reply :
On another forum someone said "I would challenge the California BASS and TBF to get the ball rolling on Clear Lake", so I'll post it here also. It makes sense someone from one of these groups would help lead an effort anglers could get behind.
Supermat reply :
I had the pleasure of speaking with an outdoor writer for BASS magazine last week. Their coverage will be minimal but ANY coverage of the issue by a national publication is a great step. The country needs to be aware of what is taking place. I applaud them as an organization for taking an interest in West coast issues. Thank you!
Slade House reply :
im still waiting for trout to be stocked at casitas again, so ticked about that. don't care about trout , but care about 10Lbers
iceintheveins reply :
The eco purists run rampant in our fisheries management. They should all be purged.
WRB reply :
Off the topic,: Lake Casitas management is worried about Quaggga mussel infestation, therefore ended planting crawdads to supplement the lakes population. The DFW has not completed the needed survey to determine if native steelhead trout use the fish ladder built for that purpose to migrate up Coyote creek. The fact the Ventura river is dry below Casitas and Coyote creek is dry above above Casitas, therefor the steelhead can't get to the dam ladder or move through the lake to reach spawning areas in the dry Coyote creek doesn't matter, no funding to complete any study.
The simple fact that rainbow trout are non native species, they can't be planted. Casitas stopped the Tail Walker plants and those trout were sterile, same as hatchery the trout.
Clear lake is suffering from the drought and currently below it's natural lake level, however must continue to drain water to preserve native fish habitate below the lake. Hitch spawn in tributaries that drain into the lake and need rain run off!
Tom.
Slade House reply :
its all *** , the lies that keep coming out about why the study hasn't been done is well documented. its all lies
.
From the Minutes of the March 12, 2014 meeting of CMWD.
“Park Services Manager, Carol Belser provided an update on the fish plants. She spoke with John O’Brien who was working under Dr. Maxwell. John indicated the Biologic Assessment is completed and is in the hands of NOAA. “
At the recreation committee meeting of CMWD on July 7, 2014 .
“PSM Belser reported that unfortunately there is no news of updates since she last spoke in May 2014 with Terri Stewart , supervising biologist with DFW, that the first step in resuming trout plants is the biological assessment that would probably not be completed until May 2015. PSM belser reported that she contacted KK Holland , district representative for Hanna-Beth Jackson, last week who sent a reminder inquiry to Stafford Lehr, Chief Fisheries Branch for the DFW last week. “
In march the biological assessment was complete, and in the hands of NOAA. Now in July and its not complete and won’t be complete until May 2015? PSM Belser isn’t implying that the NOAA assessment won’t be completed until May 2015, because she states that “the first step in resuming trout plants” It seems like the CMWD doesn't want trout plants to resume.
So please clarify.
Slade House reply :
that was part of the email i sent to the casitas municipal board
iceintheveins reply :
The lake managers have WAY too much power over OUR lakes. They seem to think the lakes our their own private property rather than belonging to we the people like they are supposed to. It's insanity and a perfect example of why government at every level needs to be stripped of a lot of it's self given "authority".
Slade House reply :
ive got it. so forget about trout, what is the CA dept of fish and game doing to "preserve and enhance black bass populations"? absolutly jack. so you can't stock trout , fine , why aren't you stocking threadfin shad, redear sunfish , and or other fish that bass like to eat? that wasn't part of the trout lawsuit. it would seem to me that the dept of fish and game in california isn't foloowing the law. now all i need is a good lawyer (besides mine) .
iceintheveins reply :
On 9/12/2014 at 1:48 PM, Slade House said:ive got it. so forget about trout, what is the CA dept of fish and game doing to "preserve and enhance black bass populations"? absolutly jack. so you can't stock trout , fine , why aren't you stocking threadfin shad, redear sunfish , and or other fish that bass like to eat? that wasn't part of the trout lawsuit. it would seem to me that the dept of fish and game in california isn't foloowing the law. now all i need is a good lawyer (besides mine) .
With the environmental marxists that run California (and most western state fishery management departmens for that matter), it's going to be a TOUGH battle. I hope to see some people who want to kill and damage our fisheries lynched so to speak.
WRB reply :
You might want to start a thread on Casitas in lieu of this thread. The general bass populations in both Clear lake and Casitas are in good condition, trophy size bass population may not be what anglers want, that isn't the DFW goal.On 9/12/2014 at 1:48 PM, Slade House said:ive got it. so forget about trout, what is the CA dept of fish and game doing to "preserve and enhance black bass populations"? absolutly jack. so you can't stock trout , fine , why aren't you stocking threadfin shad, redear sunfish , and or other fish that bass like to eat? that wasn't part of the trout lawsuit. it would seem to me that the dept of fish and game in california isn't foloowing the law. now all i need is a good lawyer (besides mine) .
Keep in mind that both Threadfin Shad and Red Ear sunfish are non native species in CA.
Tom
iceintheveins reply :
I'm sick to death of all the nonnative species garbage. What the heck do these purists want? Us to go back to sport fish free areas with nothing but rough fish? None of them should be allowed in our wildlife management agencies.
WRB reply :
Sport fishing in CA is under constant attack by our state, the most recent being the Governors Green Chemistry Initiative to ban commonly used metals in fishing tackle like copper and zinc. The DTSD has given CA industry until Oct 31 reply before putting the restricted metal list into law. Copper is used widely in the manufacturing of most electrical products, as a plating to prevent corrosion on several metals used in hunting and fishing, zinc plating is also widely used as a sacrificial metal to reduce corrosion.
Our CA government is out of their minds, but they are in control. We have become a non-native species, Vote them out!
Tom
Slade House reply :
I am going to start another thread on the issue
iceintheveins reply :
On 9/20/2014 at 12:46 AM, WRB said:Sport fishing in CA is under constant attack by our state, the most recent being the Governors Green Chemistry Initiative to ban commonly used metals in fishing tackle like copper and zinc. The DTSD has given CA industry until Oct 31 reply before putting the restricted metal list into law. Copper is used widely in the manufacturing of most electrical products, as a plating to prevent corrosion on several metals used in hunting and fishing, zinc plating is also widely used as a sacrificial metal to reduce corrosion.
Our CA government is out of their minds, but they are in control. We have become a non-native species, Vote them out!
Tom
Same thing in Colorado too, not as bad in some areas but worse in others. We have active bass and pike killing programs in favor of trash fish. They are expensive and have not helped trash fish numbers, and have been relatively ineffective at long term population reductions of sport fish.
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