So I've been actively fishing for smallmouth in a narrow river with very little success 2024
Ohioguy25 reply :
I've been fishing from a kayak in the Little Miami River in southwestern Ohio now for over a month. I've been a total of 5 times, using a medium-light fast action 6' St Croix Premier w a Pflueger Summit reel casting everything from soft plastic craws and grubs on jig heads to rooster tails to buzz bait to tubes to diving minnows to swim bait. I've cast in heavy rapids and the deeper areas right below them, I've fished deep 10-20 ft calm pools in both shade and sunlight, and I've covered roughly 10-15 miles of the river and I've only caught a total of 4 fish only one of which was a smallie.
I've read multiple places that the Little Miami is one of the best smallmouth fisheries in the state, I don't understand why I'm having so much trouble? I've seen them in there, swimming below me in shallower areas. Smallmouth, carp, and several other species. Any suggestions in regards to where and how I should be casting, what baits I should be throwing and how to work them would be greatly appreciated, I'm more determined than ever!
Last Sunday, my most recent trip, I went w my dad and finally landed my first smallmouth! It was pretty exciting, even though it was tiny. I hit it in a tiny pool right below a rapid as I had been advised, using a 1/16 yellow rooster tail. I stayed and kept hitting the same spot for about 45 minutes after I caught the buzz. Thanks again!
Btw, what species of fish is this? I researched all of the species in the river and the Sauger is the closest resemblance I could find.
frogflogger reply :
good fish - it's a rock bass - you need to get the ned rig going - it is a deadly and easy way to fish for stream smallmouth - if you don't want to spend extra cut a senko type into 21/2" pieces and put it on a 1/16 oz. jig head and catch some fish. Slow and simple
TnRiver46 reply :
Strike King bitsy tube is also your friend. Shove a 1/8 oz jig head up into it
ottosmagic13 reply :
Lettuce - Catching Huge Smallmouth Bass on Lettuce.....
But in seriousness try the small tubes that have been mentioned above or a 3-4" wacky rigged senko. If you have access to a fly pole, wholly buggers work wonders on smallies.
Yeajray231 reply :
Rebel crawfish and a small jig.
Ohioguy25 reply :
On 10/22/2016 at 12:41 AM, frogflogger said:good fish - it's a rock bass - you need to get the ned rig going - it is a deadly and easy way to fish for stream smallmouth - if you don't want to spend extra cut a senko type into 21/2" pieces and put it on a 1/16 oz. jig head and catch some fish. Slow and simple
I don't mind spending the money, I'm already into this for a couple hundred. What should I buy to get the best or traditional Ned Rig?
On 10/22/2016 at 2:43 AM, Yeajray231 said:Rebel crawfish and a small jig.
Do you mean soft plastic craws? If so that's what I've been using, any advice on how to work them or what I might be doing wrong? I've been casting them on a size 6 hook w a jig head as advised by the guy at Cabela's. Is this too big? I throw them, let them sink, and then lightly jerk it up off the riverbed every minute or two.
Scott F reply :
When you aren't catching fish on a river, lure selection is seldom the problem.
Yeajray231 reply :
@Ohioguy25 rebel crawfish is a cheap and effective crank bait. It's pretty unique looking and has a nice action. And the price makes it so you aren't afraid to pitch it near the laydowns.. I'd try a hellgrammite soft plastic lure. It's a favorite of all predatory fish in rivers. As for your soft craws.. Vary your retrieve. Have you ever tried to catch a crayfish ? They are very fast! Try ripping it off the bottom. As if it was trying to escape .
I agree with Scott.. I passed ovet the little Miami on the way to work today. It's a big river. You said you're in a kayak. Venture to another area perhaps.
dwh4784 reply :
I see a few potential issues. That snap swivel looks gigantic and the line too heavy, especially for a 1/16 Rooster Tail. Also, looks like you did some sort of double bend in the thing. I've done a small 45 degree bend toward the tip, not sure how that double bend might affect the action though? I wouldn't even bother if using a swivel out front, but personally I don't think you'll run into an issue with line twist casting inlines in a narrow river. I'd downsize the line, tie direct and give it another go. Rooster Tails/Panther Martins/Blue Fox Vibrax etc should hammer river smallies. Try a couple of each in a few different colors and sizes, I like 1/4oz Panther Martins and Vibrax for their compact size and casting distance.
Kyhokie reply :
^^^this. Lose the swivel.
Ohioguy25 reply :
On 10/22/2016 at 7:32 AM, Scott F said:When you aren't catching fish on a river, lure selection is seldom the problem.
What is then?
On 10/22/2016 at 9:52 AM, Yeajray231 said:@Ohioguy25 rebel crawfish is a cheap and effective crank bait. It's pretty unique looking and has a nice action. And the price makes it so you aren't afraid to pitch it near the laydowns.. I'd try a hellgrammite soft plastic lure. It's a favorite of all predatory fish in rivers. As for your soft craws.. Vary your retrieve. Have you ever tried to catch a crayfish ? They are very fast! Try ripping it off the bottom. As if it was trying to escape .
I agree with Scott.. I passed ovet the little Miami on the way to work today. It's a big river. You said you're in a kayak. Venture to another area perhaps.
You mean the thing w a diving lip? How do you use that w a jig, and is it better than soft plastics? And when you say venture to another area do you mean a different river/lake or diff spot on the LMR?
On 10/22/2016 at 12:11 PM, dwh4784 said:I see a few potential issues. That snap swivel looks gigantic and the line too heavy, especially for a 1/16 Rooster Tail. Also, looks like you did some sort of double bend in the thing. I've done a small 45 degree bend toward the tip, not sure how that double bend might affect the action though? I wouldn't even bother if using a swivel out front, but personally I don't think you'll run into an issue with line twist casting inlines in a narrow river. I'd downsize the line, tie direct and give it another go. Rooster Tails/Panther Martins/Blue Fox Vibrax etc should hammer river smallies. Try a couple of each in a few different colors and sizes, I like 1/4oz Panther Martins and Vibrax for their compact size and casting distance.
Do I really have to get rid of the swivel? It's much easier than retying every time I want to change baits. I have since downsized to a smaller one.
frogflogger reply :
no swivels!
"hamma" reply :
The "Issue" may not be the lure. It could be delivery, direction, scent, stealth, or just timing.
Delivery,...meaning the gear used. If your using 30 lb test mono line with a giant snapswivel, a 1/16 roostertail isnt going to cast far enough to offer a viable cast. And the pic shows some obvious line holding up that rock bass. with the rod/reel combo you have, and fishing where you are, after "smaller" smallies.,...I'd reccommend a decent casting 6 or 8 lb test mono line. Yes a snapswivel "should" be used for a inline spinner, but get yourself some of the smallest sampo's you can find. and maybe step up to a 1/8 oz spinner,.. and no split shots either.
Direction: cast upstream and retrieve the lure back downstream to you in a manner, or, speed that keeps the blade spinning. Just think about it for a minute. The fish are facing upstream, looking for food to be brought to them via the current. So, you may have to reel kinda fast depending on the currents speed.
Scent:,.. smother whatever lure you are using with a scent,.. It will mask any odors, oils etc. that may deter fish from hitting it.
Stealth: stay quiet, work your way upstream, slowly and QUIETLY, any noises made, transmit better and faster underwater. If fish hear you coming along, they will avoid anything offered.
Timing: somedays fish just aren't agreeable to begin with, They may have fed all night last night, or may be shut down due to barometric pressure.
Now, keep in mind Im offering these to you, as Im not sure as to what degree of fishing knowledge you have. So, Im kind of guessing,.... There could be one or several reasons as to why you aren't finding more agreeable river smallies. Typically, river smallies are more agressive and agreeable than their lakebound bretheren.
I hope this helps you,...good luck
Yeajray231 reply :
It's a crank bait ! Lol . The rebel crawfish is a crank bait. Yes with a lip. You just reel it in at various speeds.. the jig is separate... and I just meant find another spot on the little Miami.
Scott F reply :
On 10/22/2016 at 7:32 AM, Scott F said:When you aren't catching fish on a river, lure selection is seldom the problem.
In my smallmouth club, most of the guys fish in rivers. From the posted fishing reports of those who are catching fish, everybody is using different baits. Just in the last week, smallies were being caught on a float-n-fly, swim jigs, topwaters, jerkbaits, plastics and a fly rod. Every type of bait was catching bass. The type of bait isn't as important as presenting it correctly and in the right location.
In your case, the bent shaft on the in-line spinner prevents it from running properly. I fish spinners a lot and they don't twist line any more than any other bait as long as they are running right. The blade is supposed to spin, not the lure. A snap is OK for quick changes, but the swivel is not needed. The blades on Rooster Tails in my experience don't always spin. You have to give them a little jerk to get the blade turning. When its spinning, you should be able to feel it as you're retrieving it. If you can't, than it's either not spinning or your rod is not very good.
Location in rivers, as in any place you fish, is everything. You must pay attention to the current. Bass do not hang out in the current. They tuck in behind rocks, logs, or weeds, in slack or slow moving water, next to the fast water. As the fast water pushes food downstream past the spots where the fish are laying, they wait, dashing out to grab a meal as it goes by. Your job is to find where the bass are laying and present the lure to them. When bass are feeding, they generally aren't that picky about what they eat. If they aren't real active, they won't chase the bait very far so you have to get it right in their face. That can be a challenge when you are dealing with current, trees and the rocks they are holding close to.
Now that the water temps are dropping and the leaves are beginning to fall, the time to catch them is fading. Here in Northern Illinois, the prime time is starting to wind down. The bite is starting to slow and in some rivers, the bass are migrating to their winter holding areas.
It may take you some time to locate the spots in your river that hold fish but the bass will use those spots repeatedly and you can return there time after time.
CCAngler reply :
Keep the snap swivels out of your bass gear and never ever think of them again (unless you're drop-shotting or cranking deep). Tie directly to the line. After a day of jigging in a river you will be able to re-tie in less than a minute. You are missing hungry onlookers no matter what you clip on
Ohioguy25 reply :
On 10/22/2016 at 11:03 PM, Scott F said:In my smallmouth club, most of the guys fish in rivers. From the posted fishing reports of those who are catching fish, everybody is using different baits. Just in the last week, smallies were being caught on a float-n-fly, swim jigs, topwaters, jerkbaits, plastics and a fly rod. Every type of bait was catching bass. The type of bait isn't as important as presenting it correctly and in the right location.
In your case, the bent shaft on the in-line spinner prevents it from running properly. I fish spinners a lot and they don't twist line any more than any other bait as long as they are running right. The blade is supposed to spin, not the lure. A snap is OK for quick changes, but the swivel is not needed. The blades on Rooster Tails in my experience don't always spin. You have to give them a little jerk to get the blade turning. When its spinning, you should be able to feel it as you're retrieving it. If you can't, than it's either not spinning or your rod is not very good.
Location in rivers, as in any place you fish, is everything. You must pay attention to the current. Bass do not hang out in the current. They tuck in behind rocks, logs, or weeds, in slack or slow moving water, next to the fast water. As the fast water pushes food downstream past the spots where the fish are laying, they wait, dashing out to grab a meal as it goes by. Your job is to find where the bass are laying and present the lure to them. When bass are feeding, they generally aren't that picky about what they eat. If they aren't real active, they won't chase the bait very far so you have to get it right in their face. That can be a challenge when you are dealing with current, trees and the rocks they are holding close to.
Now that the water temps are dropping and the leaves are beginning to fall, the time to catch them is fading. Here in Northern Illinois, the prime time is starting to wind down. The bite is starting to slow and in some rivers, the bass are migrating to their winter holding areas.
It may take you some time to locate the spots in your river that hold fish but the bass will use those spots repeatedly and you can return there time after time.
Cool thanks for the tips everyone. Should I not even bother fishing tomorrow, is the water too cold in southern Ohio or can I still catch fish? It's gonna be 68 degrees and sunny.
Yeajray231 reply :
I'm going fishing. Ha-ha just out side of waynesville
Ohioguy25 reply :
On 10/23/2016 at 1:29 AM, Yeajray231 said:I'm going fishing. Ha-ha just out side of waynesville
Be careful, they just let a bunch of water into the river from the dam at Caesars and the water is high and fast. I'm going upstream to Beavercreek to put in at the narrows.
OddChase reply :
The Ned rig might be the answer to your problem if there are smallmouth in the area that you're fishing. The Z-Man Finesse TRD and Finesse ShroomZ jig head are all you need. If your river has a lot of current try the 1/10 oz size head but I prefer a 1/15 when the water is a little more calm. Keep colors simple - green pumpkin and junebug. Depending on the size of smallies, you can also consider getting a pack of the Turbo CrawZ; have not been able to get mine wet due to the fact that the river smallies here are just too small.
Here's the Ned Rig BR resource.
Tight lines
smr913 reply :
Sounds very similar to the river I fish. In the spring and summer I have a lot of luck with a plastic craw on a shakeyhead. I target rapids and directly below them. If there is a Boulder or tree giving current breaks that gets a few extra casts.
I'll be honest and say I've been struggling to find smallies regularly this fall. The river is very low right now due to no rain and my usual holes are now barren. I've been having the most luck with a spinner bait with a swim fluke instead of a skirt. Try to cover water and find the aggressive fish then you can narrow it down.
Glenn reply :
Some tissues reply :
You can try silver or white crappie tubes. I fish them in the fox river here in st. Charles. It is around three feet deep and very rock the tubes work great. My friend and I first started this summer fishing the river and the first 2 times we went we caught nothing we were using flukes and inline spinners. Then decided to throw the tubes I had on hand for panfish. Well I ended up catching 13 smallies and my friend 17. But they were all around 8-12". So I recommend go to Walmart buy a cheap pack of crappie tubes and see if they will hit them. If they do go to bass pro and try out the bass pro 2 1/2" squirt tubes in the watermelon color we did a lot of experiments with colors and size 2 1/2" watermelon was the best, bps also sells the squirt inside rig heads. The white and silver crappie tubes in he 1 1/2" work very well too but the 2 1/2" catch bigger fish obviously. For me usually around 12-16", Also the weather Is getting cold here too and they seem to still hit, my buddy just caught a 16 yesterday. If you do fish them in rocky currents which is were I get the best success I recommend light braid with a mono/fluorocarbon leader whatever is on hand. Tubes tend to get wedged in rocks easily in shallow fast moving water and the bow and arrow trick with the braided line works very well in getting them out. Sorry for the added story, just thought I'd give my experience scince I had the same problem as the original poster.
Drowning A Worm reply :
On 10/22/2016 at 12:31 AM, Ohioguy25 said:I've been fishing from a kayak in the Little Miami Rivet in southwestern Ohio now for over a month. I've been a total of 5 times, using a medium-light fast action 6' St Croix Premier w a Pflueger Summit reel casting everything from soft plastic craws and grubs on jig heads to rooster tails to buzz bait to tubes to diving minnows to swim bait. I've cast in heavy rapids and the deeper areas right below them, I've fished deep 10-20 ft calm pools in both shade and sunlight, and I've covered roughly 10-15 miles of the river and I've only caught a total of 4 fish only one of which was a smallie.
I've read multiple places that the Little Miami is one of the best smallmouth fisheries in the state, I don't understand why I'm having so much trouble? I've seen them in there, swimming below me in shallower areas. Smallmouth, carp, and several other species. Any suggestions in regards to where and how I should be casting, what baits I should be throwing and how to work them would be greatly appreciated, I'm more determined than ever!
Last Sunday, my most recent trip, I went w my dad and finally landed my first smallmouth! It was pretty exciting, even though it was tiny. I hit it in a tiny pool right below a rapid as I had been advised, using a 1/16 yellow rooster tail. I stayed and kept hitting the same spot for about 45 minutes after I caught the buzz. Thanks again!
Btw, what species of fish is this? I researched all of the species in the river and the Sauger is the closest resemblance I could find.
I don't believe it's the baits that you are using, it's the time if year. The hottest days of the year in July-August will be your best action. Especially in a drought. You can catch them on anything during those time periods. Already look forward to next smallie season. Good luck and tight lines
Some tissues reply :
On 10/25/2016 at 12:56 AM, Drowning A Worm said:I don't believe it's the baits that you are using, it's the time if year. The hottest days of the year in July-August will be your best action. Especially in a drought. You can catch them on anything during those time periods. Already look forward to next smallie season. Good luck and tight lines
Yes this was the time when the bite was hot
Arobb2012 reply :
Get a thermometer to check the river temps. Do a google search for little miami river water temps also. The lmr,gmr and the mad river should all be in the mid to high 50's right now.
Lure wise i would try some 4 inch fluke style baits. Rig them weightless and toss them into rome rapids and work them with some rod tip twitches into slack pools of water just out of the rapids. A 3-5 inch white grub on a 1/8 - 1/4oz jig head drug on the bottom is a killer bait choice now too.
Lastly don't rule out too water either. Buzzbaits,spook type baits and poppers will be productive too.
Ohioguy25 reply :
On 10/25/2016 at 12:56 AM, Drowning A Worm said:I don't believe it's the baits that you are using, it's the time if year. The hottest days of the year in July-August will be your best action. Especially in a drought. You can catch them on anything during those time periods. Already look forward to next smallie season. Good luck and tight lines
Interesting, really? I was always told hot sunny weather makes for bad fishing.
Some tissues reply :
In August when the water was low the smallies were Like catching bluegills
Drowning A Worm reply :
On 10/27/2016 at 6:40 AM, Ohioguy25 said:Interesting, really? I was always told hot sunny weather makes for bad fishing.
A lot of times in lakes and ponds that's very true, but for some reason river smallies turn on in hot weather. Caught my 3 biggest smallies in 95 degree + weather.
Ohioguy25 reply :
On 10/27/2016 at 10:47 AM, Drowning A Worm said:A lot of times in lakes and ponds that's very true, but for some reason river smallies turn on in hot weather. Caught my 3 biggest smallies in 95 degree + weather.
On 10/27/2016 at 6:47 AM, Fish yeeter said:In August when the water was low the smallies were Like catching bluegills
d**n now I'm REALLY pumped for next summer
Some tissues reply :
On 10/27/2016 at 8:28 PM, Ohioguy25 said:
d**n now I'm REALLY pumped for next summer
Same I hope the water level stays low
Ohioguy25 reply :
On 10/27/2016 at 10:47 AM, Drowning A Worm said:A lot of times in lakes and ponds that's very true, but for some reason river smallies turn on in hot weather. Caught my 3 biggest smallies in 95 degree + weather.
Should I not even bother going out on the river Sunday or Tues? Weather is gonna be relatively warm, I believe low 70s sun and high 70s Tues, but water will still be colder than in the summer.
Some tissues reply :
On 10/28/2016 at 11:23 PM, Ohioguy25 said:Should I not even bother going out on the river Sunday or Tues? Weather is gonna be relatively warm, I believe low 70s sun and high 70s Tues, but water will still be colder than in the summer.
I'm going to the river to get some smallies but it's been cold recently I'll let you know if its yeay or nay
Ohioguy25 reply :
On 10/28/2016 at 11:37 PM, Fish yeeter said:I'm going to the river to get some smallies but it's been cold recently I'll let you know if its yeay or nay
Cool. What part of the LMR do you hit? I'm hoping it's still decent, my kayak is coming tomorrow.
Some tissues reply :
On 10/28/2016 at 11:40 PM, Ohioguy25 said:Cool. What part of the LMR do you hit? I'm hoping it's still decent, my kayak is coming tomorrow.
I fish the fox river in Illinois but sounds like the weather is about the same 70s to 60s
Ohioguy25 reply :
On 10/28/2016 at 11:46 PM, Fish yeeter said:I fish the fox river in Illinois but sounds like the weather is about the same 70s to 60s
I looked that river up, it's WAY bigger than the Little Miami. Here's a pic of the LMR for comparison
Wouldn't the temperature's effect on fishing be much different?
Some tissues reply :
On 10/29/2016 at 3:46 AM, Ohioguy25 said:I looked that river up, it's WAY bigger than the Little Miami. Here's a pic of the LMR for comparison
Wouldn't the temperature's effect on fishing be much different?
Yeah the water temperature for the larger river is going to drop a little slower
also the fishing was slow only a few dinks
"hamma" reply :
River smallies are different then their lakebound brethern, The bite can turn on in a river when the bite on a lake is dead. Current and its direction/speed seems to rule and you need to be attentive to it. Temps will also dictate their location, beit a deep pool, or eddy on a straight run. This time of year I will locate them with either a small 1/8 oz spinnerbait, or a small crappie type squarebill crankbait on a light action rod. Then pick them apart with a jighead and small plastic. The air temps, and faster moving fronts in Fall will give you a headache, if you try to "figure" whats going on in a river. Best bet is to go, fish, have fun.
You could miss the best bite of the year at home, sitting on the couch, thinking the fish are in a slower bite mode. For as far as smallies go? in a river? anything can happen. anytime of year, under any conditions
Some tissues reply :
On 10/29/2016 at 7:06 PM, "hamma" said:River smallies are different then their lakebound brethern, The bite can turn on in a river when the bite on a lake is dead. Current and its direction/speed seems to rule and you need to be attentive to it. Temps will also dictate their location, beit a deep pool, or eddy on a straight run. This time of year I will locate them with either a small 1/8 oz spinnerbait, or a small crappie type squarebill crankbait on a light action rod. Then pick them apart with a jighead and small plastic. The air temps, and faster moving fronts in Fall will give you a headache, if you try to "figure" whats going on in a river. Best bet is to go, fish, have fun.
You could miss the best bite of the year at home, sitting on the couch, thinking the fish are in a slower bite mode. For as far as smallies go? in a river? anything can happen. anytime of year, under any conditions
Lol so in the end it's just a Wild card
"hamma" reply :
river smallies in the fall?,..yeah pretty much
fishwizzard reply :
Went after some small river smallies myself today. The river is question has a dam that has about a 3/4 mile pool with a deep and rocky bottom, then a series of riffles/cutbanks and long silty bottomed runs. There are several spots with large rocks that form good deep pools. Today I fished 3" senkos/stickos, both weightless and with a pegged 1/16oz bullet weight. Caught a few small SMBs and a few smaller redbreasts. I switched up to a J5 jerkbait and caught a few more super tiny Redbreasts, like fish barely larger then the lure.
This spot usually produces a good number of small (8-12") SMBs and good sized Redbreasts during the spring/summer/fall, but the bite has slowed a ton. I am not even seeing the larger fish I usually do. Where are the bass hiding when it is low and cold? I almost never fish the pool due to it getting a ton of pressure but maybe they have moved there?
Hubercatman reply :
I'm not an expert by any stretch but some things I learned this year in my first year that has been successful. Got a few 15" smallies and a lot of LMB as well.
- match the hatch: fish what the bait fish look like in your body of water you're fishing. you will catch more fish using that strategy. not to say you will only catch fish using that but you will be more successful. an example is using a silver or white inline spinner if shad are in your river.
- know your quarry: one thing I learned when reading the biology of bass is that bass have been seen feeding on fish that are up to 50% of their size. I always was afraid to go too big. also, as theyou mature their diets change. Fry go from feeding on bugs and critters to mostly other fish when mature.
- fish what's different: you will catch fish in open water but you get lucky when that happens. fish anything in your body of water that is different. ANYTHING. if you notice it's uniqueness so does the fish.
-confidence is key: as crazy as it sounds your confidence shows in how you fish. if you are impatient and full of doubt you aren't fishing as effectively as you could if you fished with confidence. do or do not, there is no try.
Also I'll echo the sentiment of losing the swivel. it may be easier to put new baits on but I've found (especially with spinners) it messes with the aerodynamics of the lure. you might be slow tying at first but you get faster with practice. at the beginning of the season it took me forever to tie a palomar knot. now I can bust it out in 30 seconds.
Also, line selection is more key to what your fishing with and the hazards than the size of the fish you're after. if your in open water and casting spinners you can get by with 4lb test. fishing jigs in rockpiles you need high test or braid. I caught a nice 15" in the GMR on Sunday using 4lb test on a popper. but I switched to my 10 lb test pole when hitting hybrids with my heavy half Oz jig/swimbait with hard jerks.
Finally I'll say bring multiple poles. I bank fish currently and I have a pack that I can have 2 prerigged poles in and carrying a third. each has a purpose and different use.
Tight lines!
Turkey sandwich reply :
Fall can be a headache to pattern sometimes, but when you get it, it's maybe the best time of the year for size. There is a ton of good information on this thread already, but man, KEEP IT SIMPLE. Trying to get into anything too complicated will only make learning more difficult. A 7' Medium power fast action spinning rod spooled with 6-8lb mono is a great, inexpensive start. For now, just leave the swivels at home. Learning how to fish basic techniques/lures like inline spinners, 4" grubs, tubes, poppers, jigs, and Crankbaits will pay dividends because you'll catch fish when you find them, and because you're going to learn a lot of the more advanced stuff as you get better. Also, especially now, start keeping a journal. Note the conditions at the time if each catch (best you can) and include weather (including the week leading up) depth, location, water level, lure/presentation, and any other basic details you can. Once you start collecting your own data and learning patterns, you'll be better able to figure out or even eliminate a lot of tough days and have more fun on the water. Good luck!
TheRodFather reply :
I have been doing really well on the Ned rig in small rivers near me, DO spend the money on the Z-man TRDs because they are so buoyant that the plastic stands up, and that's what the fish like IMO. DO NOT spend the money on the special shroom heads, a 1/8 ball head jig with a 2/0 hook can be bought for 25 bucks for 100 (unless you don't mind spending the bucks on the shroom heads). Rig some up, superglue the plastic to the ball head, and that thing will last as long as you have it tied on, or you snag it and break off.
In early spring I started with the rebel craw, as the summer went on, Hellgrammites on very light jig heads were the ticket. Now the Ned rig is my go to. Paddle tail swim baits have been working pretty well, usually catches the bigger fish.
Regardless, I have had the most luck drifting into the bass. Casting upstream gets me snagged the most, so use the lightest jig you can, keep the rod tip high and keep the bait light on the rocks. Casting perpendicular to the current and giving little hops that swing it down current works well too.
Rarely will I catch fish consistently retrieving against the current. It's just not natural to the fish I think. Oh, and I have had much better results on the Mepps inline spinners VS Rooster tails, I remember when I was a kid, using the rooster tails, they often stopped spinning. The Mepps rarely do that.
Spankey reply :
I love your thread. Been keeping an eye on it. You've been given a lot of great advise.
I hate to see you get discouraged, hope you don't.
I take it the fish are there. That's The most important thing. This is what I'd do if I were you. Maybe this is for next season. When you go out only take 4" power worms, grubs and some tubes with you. You don't need a ton of stuff. The right colors. Email me about that or repost about some decent colors. Leave all the other stuff home. Learn to rig the above mentioned baits. These baits will make you fish slow. Very very slow for real. These baits will keep you in contact with the bottom. You'll learn the water you are fishing. When things are slow go this way. I'm not trying to be a kcid by telling you to leave your other stuff home. Just saying this will force you to fish slow. You'll have to. You won't have anything else to tie on or resort to. Youll fish what you brought or go home and I don't want to see you go home. You'll become a better fisherman that way. Than at some other time down the road do the same thing with some spinnerbaits. Than crank baits.
You probably think I'm crazy but I'm serious as a heart attack. I'll bet you land more fish.
TheRodFather reply :
On 11/25/2016 at 11:09 PM, Spankey said:I love your thread. Been keeping an eye on it. You've been given a lot of great advise.
I hate to see you get discouraged, hope you don't.
I take it the fish are there. That's The most important thing. This is what I'd do if I were you. Maybe this is for next season. When you go out only take 4" power worms, grubs and some tubes with you. You don't need a ton of stuff. The right colors. Email me about that or repost about some decent colors. Leave all the other stuff home. Learn to rig the above mentioned baits. These baits will make you fish slow. Very very slow for real. These baits will keep you in contact with the bottom. You'll learn the water you are fishing. When things are slow go this way. I'm not trying to be a kcid by telling you to leave your other stuff home. Just saying this will force you to fish slow. You'll have to. You won't have anything else to tie on or resort to. Youll fish what you brought or go home and I don't want to see you go home. You'll become a better fisherman that way. Than at some other time down the road do the same thing with some spinnerbaits. Than crank baits.
You probably think I'm crazy but I'm serious as a heart attack. I'll bet you land more fish.
I agree, about halfway through the summer I started primarily using baits that drag or hop on the bottom, only exception was a swim bait here and there like I mentioned before, but even still I would let that hit bottom then swim a bit, then back down. I found that I was getting much more consistent catch rates than I did the first half of the season.
king fisher reply :
In my opinion for the size of river you are fishing, an inline spinner fished with a light to medium action spinning rod, and four to six pound test line would be the ideal combo to start with. Inline spinners will catch any species of fish, in small riffles, runs, and pools. Can be cast upstream and retrieved straight down, or swung across the current. Even retrieved straight upstream paused and dropped back into likely spots can be an effective way to fish them. I prefer Vibrax or Mepps in size 3 most of the time but other brands, in smaller and larger sizes work great too. There are times when a Panther Martin will significantly out fish any other blade. I will go against most of the advice here and recommend a size appropriate swivel for the inline spinners. Any one that tells you an inline wont twist your line has never fished all day with a spinning rod tied to an inline spinner in fast moving water. You can use a barrel swivel and a leader if you are worried about a snap swivel keeping the blade from spinning at slow speeds. I have fished inline spinners in rivers for everything, from blue gill to king salmon and have never had trouble with the action while using a quality snap swivel of appropriate size for the lure, line combination. ( the swivel in your picture is way to big and will have a dramatic effect on the way it spins.) With the exception of spoons, I wouldn't use a swivel with any other lures. Tubes and jigs, would be better for deeper holes with little to no current. Floating Rapalas, small crank baits, swim baits, and many soft plastics may be better lures to use once you find the depth and current the fish are holding in. Many times I have found fish in small streams covering water quickly with an inline spinner, then tied on every lure in my box trying to find a more effective offering, Switched back to the spinner finding it was the best producer.
fishwizzard reply :
I have messed with pitting a swivel in-front of my inlines but it is hit or miss if it kills the slow speed action. I fish them all the time for white perch and and with a spinning reel using light braid w/ leader I have never noticed any line twist to speak of. I did throw some larger inlines with a BFS combo and it got line twist very badly however.
When I was messing with swivels I found that these Decoy ones worked great for attaching right to the lure. However, even the "small" isnt really that small and is too much for less then an 1/8oz spinner.
Yeajray231 reply :
I second the spinner. I like Mepps black fury. They have yellow/green/pink/orange.
Yellow and orange are where it's at.
I caught a big channel cat on a #5 silver blade white skirt though.
Hurricane reply :
On 10/24/2016 at 8:28 PM, OddChase said:The Ned rig might be the answer to your problem if there are smallmouth in the area that you're fishing. The Z-Man Finesse TRD and Finesse ShroomZ jig head are all you need. If your river has a lot of current try the 1/10 oz size head but I prefer a 1/15 when the water is a little more calm. Keep colors simple - green pumpkin and junebug. Depending on the size of smallies, you can also consider getting a pack of the Turbo CrawZ; have not been able to get mine wet due to the fact that the river smallies here are just too small.
Here's the Ned Rig BR resource.
Tight lines
Exactly what i use....
fishwizzard reply :
I bank fished a small river this week and managed to get a few smallies by throwing a wacky 4" Ocho worm into every deep pool or cut bank I came across. I like the 4" Ocho a ton, it addition to being short it is far thinner and lighter than most other 4" stickbaits and has great action on the fall. However, the lightness does make it hard to keep it in the right spot in much current so I am going to dry to use a very light (1/16 or 1/8") drop shot rig next time to see if that helps. In the calmer pools I was able to vertically jig the worm in place and got almost half my hits that way. Some times it took like 30-45 seconds of movement to get a bass to dart up and grab it.
So far I have yet to bust out the waders, but that time is coming soon. As all the bass I have caught so far are on the edges it will be great to be able to fish both sides at the same time by wading up the middle.
DoDFire reply :
Location, location,location........It happens here on the little pigeon river, they are in different parts of the river during certain conditions and seasons. The hunt is the fun part, we smoke their hind ends on a Zoom fluke (Arkansas shiner) Rebel wee craws (brown orange) and tiny torpedo (green back yellow belly with a little orange) This time of the year they pull out of the shallow little pigeon and hit the French Broad which is a little deeper river. If the water you fish dumps into another deeper river or deeper pools I'd bet they have migrated down stream to the winter pools. I always did well casting up and across stream and working the lure down the current seams. The current seams where the water runs slow and meets the faster moving water was always the ticket during the warmer temps for me. Learn to read the current and you can just about point to the spot where you will stick one on the next cast. I bet if you found the deep holes right now and slowed way down (Ned rig, hair jig) you could put a whoop'n on them.
fishwizzard reply :
That is interesting. I fish another small river right about a mile long pool caused by an old dam. I have never caught anything in the pool before, but can do quite well in the shallow upper area. I might try fishing the pool over the winter.
DoDFire reply :
I fished places in the Piegon River that were waist deep at the deepest and it was always in June-July when we would fish it and usually between 4 pm till dark. Most of the fish we caught came out of knee deep water and they would lay right in the seam of the slow moving water where the faster water would meet the slow. They would lay there and wait for something to come down stream to them then run it down and kill it. There was always deep (waist deep) water near by so it was a nice little set up on this stretch of the river. If we didn't catch them in the shallow runs we would catch them in the deeper pools but there had to be something like a boulder or shopping cart (no kidding) in the hole. If they were hiding behind the current break we would do a controlled drift and make the fluke swing towards the back side of the structure, as soon as the fluke would start to swing into the spot they were all over it. That stretch of river was always good and just about 12 mile long stretch. That was the only place I have ever caught 40-45 smallmouth in 3-4 hours of fishing and did it several times a month. I'd say it's been 8 years since I have fished it.... man I miss that place. I never fished it in the fall or winter but I know they move out of that area and head down to the deeper holes in the winter. There are a couple of guys that I have heard about that fish tournament's in the winter (Tennessee River) and they run from the dam for an hour or so to the French Broad river. They take the bass boat as far as they can go till they can't go any further up stream and fish the deep pools they can get into.I've heard checks were cashed from the spot and I have heard it's the "monster" smallmouth that helped cash the checks. The water we fished on the Little Pigeon dumps right into the French Broad and I bet all those deep spots have some fish in them right now........See what happens when you don't get to fish and have to talk about it on a forum. I guess you can tell I don't know how to shut up when it comes to a silly brown fish. Anyways..........A river, some brown fish, cold water, and a few deep holes with a slow presentation I think it would be game on. I'll hush now till the next person brings something up about a smallmouth.
Snipe Hunter reply :
OhioGuy,
I don't know the Little Miami but I do spend a good bit of time chasing smallies. To me smallies are kind of like bluegill, hungry. You just have to find them and not spook them. You said a couple things in your first post the have me thinking... including the picture. One of the reasons I like to fish for them, particularly in creeks and rivers is that they are usually where they're supposed to be. In holes, downstream of big rocks or structure, tailraces and below rapids etc. I also target them in fast channels near rocky areas. Fish are sitting in those areas to ambush their prey. Concentrate on those areas. You said you can see the fish. That means they can see you too. Back off the fish, make long casts above where the fish should be so when the current takes your lure to the target area it's to the depth of the fish. Tie your lures directly to your line, ditch the swivel. It doesn't look very appetizing and it probably adversely effects the action of your baits. You can tie a palomar knot in less than a minute, 30 seconds with practice. Maybe it's the way the light is reflecting off your line but it looks heavy. Drop down to 6lb mono. I'm old so I still use mono and still catch fish with it. It casts well with spinning gear.
Somebody mentioned a Rebel Craw. It's a great smallmouth bait on light line. I don't use them much because I never caught a big SM on one and at this stage of my life, I'm looking for bigger fish and honestly, I'd rather not fish with treble hooks when I can avoid it. But when I'm fishing with a rookie, I'll tie one on his rod. He's going to catch something... The rock bass will eat them too.
A bait that gets overlooked a lot for SM are spinner-baits. I throw spinnerbaits probably more than any other lure for fast water smallies. For a coupe reasons. One, they have flash and vibration so the fish can find it. Two, they're easy to use and I can manipulate the depth without too much trouble in moving water and three, I can feel the bottom without hanging up. Big blades for slow water and smaller blades for fast water. Most of the time, it will have a chartreuse skirt. The rest of the time it will be white or a combination of both. I use big ones because I'm looking for bigger fish but I fished smaller ones for years and did well with them. Don't be afraid of painted blades on your spinnerbaits for SM.
I also use a cheap, home spun lure which I have been fishing over 30 years which is a safety pin spinner on a jig-head and a white or chartreuse grub. It's just a poor man's variation of the old Beetle Spin. I buy all of these pieces in bulk at bass-pro and keep a lot on hand. There's been many times when I caught fish on those when I would have otherwise been skunked. Again, I can feel the bottom without hanging up with this lure. I'm usually fishing just off the bottom, year round. I've also caught red-eyes (rock bass), crappie, bluegill, LM, Walleye and even channel cats on the Potomac with this lure.
Here's a picture of them. They're easy to put together, cover lots of water quickly and they catch a lot of fish and they're cheap so you don't break the bank if you loose a few. What's not to like?
And lastly, try a texas rigged or slider head rigged 4" Berkly Power worm. I've done best with "punkinseed".
All these tips are high percentage lures and should increase your catch and they all can be fished with 6lb mono on a spinning rod. Once you start catching more fish and getting a better feel for the fish, start up-sizing for bigger fish.
BigSkyBasser reply :
If it's a smaller river then I generally think of downsizing all of my applications accordingly. Usually fish and they're bait will grow to accomodate the size of their niche. You may find this easier by investing in a nice 6'6" spinning outfit and some light 4-6 pound test flouro. This would be much more ideal for the Ned Rig as previously mentioned as well as any other finesse techniques which would likely be more productive where you are. How troublesome do you think fishing a dropshot would be in these waters? It's my go to for smallies anywhere I fish, including stained/muddy rivers of any size.
Beckie Gaskill reply :
I agree with others that a Ned rig would be a good option. Also a small tube or a smaller arkie style hair jig. And definitely lose the swivel. It looks totally unnatural and I would think it would scare away any potential dinners. Smaller line diameter can help, too. I am not familiar with the water you're fishing, but if its stained water, something like a copper copolymer (KastKing has some very reasonably) disappears in the water - at least it seems to - or clear if the water is clearer. But, fir lures, don't be afraid to go a bit brighter - sometimes that helps.
Target ambush points - places where smalls can hide and wait for a meal to float by on the current.
Good luck!
Sam reply :
As stated above, scale down and lighten up.
And try the Bitsy Jig in black and blue.
Good luck.
fishnkamp reply :
Guys he is running a St Croix Premier 6 foot ml spinning rod and a good reel. He can easily change to 6 pound test and he will be set. That rod is fine in fact very good. I used to chase smallies on the Susqy with several Premier rods. My suggestion to add to what he already has been given is to fish the small baits that have been listed but also add a swim bait like the Reaction Innovation Little Dipper on a belly weighted swimbait hook. They can be fantastic. When I did fish the Potomac and Susqy rivers for smallies the most successful lure for me was a homemade twintail grub ( like a beetle spin body). We throw them on 1/8 ounce ball jigs. Check out the Uncle Bucks lineup for something similar.
patred reply :
On 2/6/2017 at 1:07 AM, fishnkamp said:but also add a swim bait like the Reaction Innovation Little Dipper on a belly weighted swimbait hook.
For most of last year, I used TRD Finesse worms (Ned Rig) and the Reaction Innovations Little Dippers. Maybe 75% of the fish I caught were on those two. I mainly fish the Upper Potomac and a smaller "river" near my house.
Pat
fishnkamp reply :
Those swimbaits just plain catch fish and they really do not have to work them any special way. Throw them out, let them swim along and then occasionally let them die. The way they flutter down around a log, rock or whatever cover might be there is amazing. Just be prepared to get bit!
fishwizzard reply :
Added a pack of the Little Dippers to some an ebay order this evening. I use the Keitech Impacts a lot in small rivers but they get destroyed so quickly. Hopefuly the RI lures are a little more durable.
fishnkamp reply :
They may get destroyed but are they getting eaten? I have heard goods things about the Keitech but have only used the RI Skinny Dippers. I have a 6 foot BPS Extreme ML baitcaster that gas either a little dipper or a skinny dipper tied on at all times. It gets put on my deck almost before any other rod. They work in super gin clear rivers, lakes all the way to dark tannic tidal water. I also like that you can fish them unweighted, belly weighted or on a swimjig head. That means from shallow to mid depths to over 40 feet deep. When you get the chance to fish them let me know how you like them compared to the Keitechs. that will be interesting.
fishwizzard reply :
The Impacts are getting eaten but even a little 9" smallie can wreck one. They ususly maybe last two fish at most. They are fragile enough in rivers, but in small ponds a lillypad "V" will rip the tail off of one before I even notice it's snagged. They are cheaper then the Fat Impacts but still a bit pricy.
In general, 3-4" swimbaits were some of the first lures I ever really had a lot of success with, but last season my attention wanded away from them. This comming year I want to find ones that work well and really learn them.
patred reply :
On 2/6/2017 at 6:25 AM, fishnkamp said:Those swimbaits just plain catch fish and they really do not have to work them any special way. Throw them out, let them swim along and then occasionally let them die. The way they flutter down around a log, rock or whatever cover might be there is amazing. Just be prepared to get bit!
Sometimes don't feel like a true fisherman using them. Cast out, reel in steadily so they swim just below the surface. Catch fish.
Bass Pro Shops makes a "Sassy Sally" which looks almost exactly like the Little Dippers, but they don't have quite the same action.
Pat
fishnkamp reply :
Most things BPS copies fail to equal the original. If you look in my tackle I own very few BPS house brand products. Now I buy tackle there, just not the stuff they have copied.
Angry John reply :
Spinners and a swivel i say yes. I get the smallest size ball bearing swivel and snap that they sell at BPS or Cabellas. I have never had an issue with catching fish with them on and no line twist issues after using them. They are tiny and do a great job. I like in line spinning baits with french "mepps" or Colorado type blades. They start up and stay going a lot better than teh willow blades that the normal rooster tails use. I like a #1 most as they are a good indicator bait and you can catch everything on them from gills to rock bass to trout. I will upsize if i catch them on the small #1 to a 2.
My top 3 river baits.
1. A kvd square bill in bluegill in size 1.0
2. A dean rojas cane tumper worm in 4"
3. Small brush hawg in green pumpkin.
Any small worm will work, Brush hawgs are great anywhere all the time and the SK square bill does not get hung up as much, works and is not very expensive. Some 2.0 ewg or round bend hooks a few weights 1/8yths and a coulple squarebills and you should be off and running. If your in love with the idea of a snap but dont need a swivel like on the crankbaits owner makes a great welded snap that i use a lot and are great. The smallest size will work well in a river situation. I always tie direct for plastic presentations.
PatrickKnight reply :
I fish the Great Miami a ton and there isn't much difference between the two rivers. Tie on a green pumpkin 3-4 inch curly tail and fish the spots where fast water meets slower water and you will catch fish.
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