Guy Has Been Pulling Up My Catfish Noodles. 2024
hbird reply :
Didnt know where else to put this topic and yes im aware this is a bass forum but i didnt have anywhere else to put it,
Recently we have been running a trot line with livers and hotdogs in my friends lake, small lake id say 8 acres or so, maybe smaller, we ran the line from one side to the other, worked on making it all day long, and one side we tied it on we noticed it fell off into the water, we didnt think it came untied. I tied a really really good not, To a tree at the edge of the water/bank. So we picked it up from the other side and re tied it. Today we had a Noodle out in a shallow part of the lake, this man was fishing and all of a sudden he picks it up while were sitting on the back porch, and throws it on the bank. I yell "Hey what the hell are you doing?" he says "come get it" i went out there to get it, i told him what makes him think he can pick up my noodle i set out like that? He proclaims "Its on my property i can do whatever i want" I said Sir when you bought your house you didnt buy the water, he says my property line goes into the water, I told him i didnt think that was true, i asked if he was the guy who was messing with our trotlines and he told me he has, i told him were just a bunch of kids trying to have fun, he told me "this isnt a lake for running trotlines and jugging son" i told him we could argue alll day but its not right for him to move my jugs and cut my trotlines
As far as im concerned, is he right here? In fishermans law i guess you could say hes wrong and you dont mess with another mans stuff, I put my noodle back out and rebaited it, Am i right here for saying something to him? I thought on lakes 5 feet on the shore was private property, What should i do next time he messes with our stuff? What should i do?
Give me some help
Tony Monticelli reply :
smear dog poop all over the line
GoTakeANap reply :
i live on a shared pond with 10 people who live on it. our property line goes from our yard to the middle of the pond and stops. then it butts up to the person that lives across the pond from me. you could always pull property lines and see but it wont do you any good with someone like that. if it was me i wouldnt touch anything in a pond if it wasent mine, but you know everyone isnt that way. at 1st i figured someones trolling motor might of got caught up in your troutline but after you asked him and he told you he did that blow that out of the question. just sounds like you got a butt on your hands.
NoBassPro reply :
On 8/12/2012 at 11:12 AM, GoTakeANap said:i live on a shared pond with 10 people who live on it. our property line goes from our yard to the middle of the pond and stops. then it butts up to the person that lives across the pond from me. you could always pull property lines and see but it wont do you any good with someone like that. if it was me i wouldnt touch anything in a pond if it wasent mine, but you know everyone isnt that way. at 1st i figured someones trolling motor might of got caught up in your troutline but after you asked him and he told you he did that blow that out of the question. just sounds like you got a butt on your hands.
Legally on inland lakes the property line always extends to the middle of the lake or pond so far as I know, whether or not it is drawn up that way.
MCS reply :
Check out the deed or plats for the subdivision. There probably is some kind of language concerning shared use and maintenance of the pond. People are fools when it comes to "property" if they only realize it is just means to tax. The local government and HOA govern what an owner can and can't do. And there are all kinds of restrictions, agreements and easements that can be in effect. The reason the property lines go to lake centers is probably to address maintenance, not state as in the case of storm water ponds or HOA in case of a pond located within a common space. If you know a surveyor or perhaps civil engineer, or a lawyer versed in real estate law would be able to help.
OkobojiEagle reply :
On 8/12/2012 at 10:57 AM, hbird said:What should i do?
Don't leave unattended tackle in the pond.
oe
NoBassPro reply :
On 8/12/2012 at 11:29 AM, MCS said:The reason the property lines go to lake centers is probably to address maintenance, not state as in the case of storm water ponds or HOA in case of a pond located within a common space. If you know a surveyor or perhaps civil engineer, or a lawyer versed in real estate law would be able to help.
On most lakes the reason property lines go to the center of lakes is based on the old common law principles of riparian rights. Basically it gives the landowner the right to develop the waterfront and keep people from swimming in his backyard. While there can be easements and the like, it is doubtful they would give anyone the right to hang a trot line in another person's property.
Long Mike reply :
If this pond is on private property, or abuts to private property you are probably trespassing. As suggested above, it would be well worth your while to check out the local ordinances for that particular pond.
Stasher1 reply :
On 8/12/2012 at 11:12 AM, GoTakeANap said:i live on a shared pond with 10 people who live on it. our property line goes from our yard to the middle of the pond and stops. then it butts up to the person that lives across the pond from me. you could always pull property lines and see but it wont do you any good with someone like that. if it was me i wouldnt touch anything in a pond if it wasent mine, but you know everyone isnt that way. at 1st i figured someones trolling motor might of got caught up in your troutline but after you asked him and he told you he did that blow that out of the question. just sounds like you got a butt on your hands.
This^^^
If it's a private lake/pond with no public access, each plot bordering the lake will typically extend to the center of the lake. If the lake/pond is city/county/state owned, the plots bordering the lake will generally only run to the high-water mark.
We ran into this issue a few years ago on Lake Lanier. The lake actually belongs to the Army COE, and when the water level dropped, they put up several temporary fences to keep the rednecks from driving their trucks out onto the exposed lake bed. The folks with property on the lake were ticked, but their property only extended to the high-water mark, not the point the water receded to when the lake dropped 15+ feet.
In either case, don't leave your crap out in the middle of the lake. Personally, I can't stand noodles and jugs. If you want to fish, then sit in a boat and fish.
MCS reply :
On 8/12/2012 at 11:48 AM, NoBassPro said:On most lakes the reason property lines go to the center of lakes is based on the old common law principles of riparian rights. Basically it gives the landowner the right to develop the waterfront and keep people from swimming in his backyard. While there can be easements and the like, it is doubtful they would give anyone the right to hang a trot line in another person's property.
Never said it would be legal to hang trot lines. As they would be tied to land. However there are many places that have property to MHW or to Shoreline vague as it might be. I was suggesting to check the regs to see if the lake was shared as in giving him equal acess to fish the lake. Or they both could be wrong and have no right to fish the lake use a boat etc. But checking a deed or plat he will get answer to legal property right issues.
When we cut property lines it all has to do with lot size, zoning, maintenance and legalities of things like common/green space and storm water management ponds. Last thing on any surveyor or engineers mind is lake access, last thing on a developers mind is access, it is profit.
If there is a blue line stream involved it is most certainly involves the Corp. if there is a dam or control structure then it at least involves the state/county.
Bluebasser86 reply :
I'd be irked about someone running a line from one side of the pond to the other if I lived there too, effectively roping off part of the pond. Also are your lines properly marked? Here we have to have our names, address, and phone number on any type of set line. I understand you're trying to have fun but I'd make absolutely sure what you're doing isn't breaking any laws.
NoBassPro reply :
On 8/12/2012 at 12:37 PM, MCS said:Never said it would be legal to hang trot lines. As they would be tied to land. However there are many places that have property to MHW or to Shoreline vague as it might be. I was suggesting to check the regs to see if the lake was shared as in giving him equal acess to fish the lake. Or they both could be wrong and have no right to fish the lake use a boat etc. But checking a deed or plat he will get answer to legal property right issues.
When we cut property lines it all has to do with lot size, zoning, maintenance and legalities of things like common/green space and storm water management ponds. Last thing on any surveyor or engineers mind is lake access, last thing on a developers mind is access, it is profit.
If there is a blue line stream involved it is most certainly involves the Corp. if there is a dam or control structure then it at least involves the state/county.
Yea, you are a little confused on how riparian property works is all. Noone owns the surface of the water, people do own the land under the lake. It might be a private individual or it might be the government or some other entity, but it is all owned whether or not it states to the waters edge or similar things. Officially, even with an easement the property owner the easement runs through owns the bottomlands on the other side of the easement, at least in this state.
Even if he does have an easement allowing access, there are standards that apply, such as not interfering with the owners quiet enjoyment of his property.
Surveyor reply :
Riparian rights vary from state to state. If the river is designated as a navigable river the riparian rights are defined by the feds.
Typically there is no typical as to where the actual property line is located. Most large lakes here in Ga and most of the SE were built by the TVA and the lakes, and the land under the water are owned by some governmental authority or by the power company. They vary as to the location of the property line, some are determined by an elevation, some by the average lake level others by other means.
I the OPs case though in any state if he has tied his trot line on a tree or anything that is on dry land he is almost definitely trespassing unless he owns that property.
In almost all states if the OP puts his boat in the water while on his dry land property, or has permission to do so, he is free to paddle, swim, wade anywhere on the lake, pond. If he steps foot on dry land on anyone else's property he is trespassing, no ifs, ands or buts anywhere
hbird reply :
The trot line goes to the bottom of the lake, we put a brick in the middle so it would sink, us and this old man are pretty much the only people that use the lake. If he was a kind old man i think he would let it fly, now if he cuts our trot line that we put on my friends property, were gonna have a serious problem
smalljaw67 reply :
On 8/12/2012 at 9:30 PM, hbird said:The trot line goes to the bottom of the lake, we put a brick in the middle so it would sink, us and this old man are pretty much the only people that use the lake. If he was a kind old man i think he would let it fly, now if he cuts our trot line that we put on my friends property, were gonna have a serious problem
Check you local laws like everyone is telling you, you can end up getting you friends parents sued. The 3' from each bank refers to a navigatable river or stream and it was meant to allow boats free passage through areas of private property in which a stream or river goes through. As for lakes and pond, well in he owns the rights then it matters not where you plave a jug or trot line, you are breaking the law, so check the laws. Judging from the way the guy acted and what he told you he probably knows how much he owns so be careful, it may just cost your friend his home if you push the issue and you're wrong.
Dwight Hottle reply :
hbird did you ever think that this kind old man might be in the right & you are wrong? Try treating him with respect & ask his permission to set out a trot line. He might surprise you if don't confront him. If his property rights extend to the center of the pond you are in the wrong not him.
hbird reply :
On 8/12/2012 at 9:44 PM, Dwight Hottle said:hbird did you ever think that this kind old man might be in the right & you are wrong? Try treating him with respect & ask his permission to set out a trot line. He might surprise you if don't confront him. If his property rights extend to the center of the pond you are in the wrong not him.
He came out guns blazing, and so i did too.
Mad Fisherman reply :
Do as mentioned above by Dwight Hottle, but first of all, ask him where he think's his property line ends. If that does not work, try tying the lines under water where only you know where they are. If he keeps coming back, I would go somewhere else.
Hyrule Bass reply :
sounds like his friend has a house on the lake there. which means they have legal access to the lake. i dont think thats the problem at all as some surmise. the problem is running a trotline across the whole lake, that is wrong in my opinion. keep them on your friends property and you should be fine. dont run them out across the whole lake, or even to the middle. they probably dont need to be that long anyways. run several shorter ones instead of one huge one. in that case, across the whole lake, i dont blame him for cutting them. i would also try keeping your noodle in the water in front of your friends property, then their is probably nothing he can do about it. no need to argue with him though, in this case sounds like the old man was right and you were wrong. otherwise if youre doing stuff like that you need to be there to watch them and know all applicable laws for that type of fishing...
SirSnookalot reply :
QuotePersonally, I can't stand noodles and jugs. If you want to fish, then sit in a boat and fish.
X2
That ain't fishing ! If you wouldn't fish for bass that way why would you do it for a catfish and don't tell me it's sport. Since you don't have a man card yet, I submit your boy card be revoked.
fishingkidPA reply :
On 8/12/2012 at 9:53 PM, hbird said:He came out guns blazing, and so i did too.
you have to treat people with respect, especially if its not your property! Thats how you get access to private property hunting/fishing. Im pretty sure no one would let you set up all that **** anyway even if you did were grant access. Why in the world would you set up a trot line/jugs/etc on a pond if your not sure who owns it? I would be just as angry as that old man and i would cut your line every time you did it.
Hyrule Bass reply :
On 8/14/2012 at 12:09 AM, fishingkidPA said:you have to treat people with respect, especially if its not your property! Thats how you get access to private property hunting/fishing. Im pretty sure no one would let you set up all that **** anyway even if you did were grant access. Why in the world would you set up a trot line/jugs/etc on a pond if your not sure who owns it? I would be just as angry as that old man and i would cut your line every time you did it.
in defense of hbird here, im not even sure you read the thread here. its an 8 acre lake with houses on it, not a small tiny pond. on one mans land, atleast thats the way i see it from how he worded it. his friend has a house on said lake and thats his permission to access it with his friend. he wasnt just trespassing. the old man was mad the noodle was in front of his lake front property, thought it was in the water. and that someone set a trotline across the entire lake. if you want to grill him for the noodle and trotline thats fine, but i dont think he was actually trespassing...
fishingkidPA reply :
i guess i read it wrong because i did not see he said his friend owns a house on the lake. i thought he was just going to a small housing plan built around a lake/pond setting up lines.. But if you are going to set up a trotline and tie it to someones property, don't be surprised that he was ticked hbird, sorry for reading it wrong/jumping to conclusions. i would just forget about that pond or just cast out your rod with a hot dog on it.
North Ga Hillbilly reply :
I dont blaim the guy at all, legalities aside as I dont know what is exactly legal or not legal in this situation, Its a pretty rude move to throw out a meat fishing setup in a private pond, especially when you are not a property owner. That rope could easily ruin a trolling motor and snag alot of lures. I would stick to fishing proper in this pond and be sure to apologize to the old fella when you see him again. Acting like a snotty kid is not going to get you anywhere other than loosing access to this pond. I saw your other thread and see you are "catching" some nice catfish, youd have alot more fun taking some energy drinks, or whatever gets you goin, and fishing through a few nights. That 20# cat would have been alot more fun on a MH bass rod than it was pulling up a drop line.
NGaHB
NoBassPro reply :
On 8/14/2012 at 8:54 AM, North Ga Hillbilly said:I dont blaim the guy at all, legalities aside as I dont know what is exactly legal or not legal in this situation, Its a pretty rude move to throw out a meat fishing setup in a private pond, especially when you are not a property owner. That rope could easily ruin a trolling motor and snag alot of lures. I would stick to fishing proper in this pond and be sure to apologize to the old fella when you see him again. Acting like a snotty kid is not going to get you anywhere other than loosing access to this pond. I saw your other thread and see you are "catching" some nice catfish, youd have alot more fun taking some energy drinks, or whatever gets you goin, and fishing through a few nights. That 20# cat would have been alot more fun on a MH bass rod than it was pulling up a drop line.
NGaHB
This pretty much exactly, the legalities are somewhat debatable. If you feel like paying a lawyer a few hundred dollars an hour I'm sure he will explain things to you and maybe even tell you you have a case, but I wouldn't be putting my money on it. The other thing to think about is the right to access something and the right to do whatever you want while there are not the same.
And just because it annoys me, for legal purposes if you own water front property your property line does almost always extend to the center of the body of water. The sole exception in this state is the Great Lakes, where the state owns everything below the high water mark. This does not mean you can rope off your section of the body of water or anything crazy like that, it does mean you can build docks and do similar things. They do not expect anyone to survey out lakes in little pie shapes, about the only way to lose these rights beyond government ownership is to not be considered the waterfront property owner. This is a legal concept that has been around longer than the USA and is fairly well universal from state to state.
MCS reply :
On 8/14/2012 at 10:49 AM, NoBassPro said:This pretty much exactly, the legalities are somewhat debatable. If you feel like paying a lawyer a few hundred dollars an hour I'm sure he will explain things to you and maybe even tell you you have a case, but I wouldn't be putting my money on it. The other thing to think about is the right to access something and the right to do whatever you want while there are not the same.
And just because it annoys me, for legal purposes if you own water front property your property line does almost always extend to the center of the body of water. The sole exception in this state is the Great Lakes, where the state owns everything below the high water mark. This does not mean you can rope off your section of the body of water or anything crazy like that, it does mean you can build docks and do similar things. They do not expect anyone to survey out lakes in little pie shapes, about the only way to lose these rights beyond government ownership is to not be considered the waterfront property owner. This is a legal concept that has been around longer than the USA and is fairly well universal from state to state.
And because it annoys me, the above statement is false. Only some cases do a property line extend into the water and still that doesn't dictate ownership of the body of water itself. Many a property line go to MHW (mean high water) or shoreline and it is a false assumption they extend beyond into the body of water. In those cases riparian rights are invoked. Riparian rights and property ownership are two different things, this is where you get lost on most of my posts regarding the subject. Stasher had the best post with demostrating the ownership/access of the body of water, USACE, and the rights the owners had to the water. This is my point, look to the owner of the water for the guidelines on use and access. As it will be owned and maintained by the state, federal or a HOA institution. Many states and jurisdictions allow the construction of docks with a general permit, they also reserve the right to remove or modify such structures if deemed necessary. Now what you have stated holds some truths, but also holds some misinformation and common assumptions. Property law is very complicated and dealing with waterways etc. should best be left to a professional land surveyor. That is why you should seek the legal documents describing the ownership/access as I and Long Mike stated.
Bassn Blvd reply :
Not all lakefront properties are the same. MANY developments here in florida have lakefront property. The lakes were dug to make the house pads. Anyway, if the lake is surrounded by homes, then the homeowner does not own out to the middle of the lake. In fact, every home on the lake has an easement which allows any person living on the lake to be able to walk the entire shoreline w/out trespassing. This means I can walk out my back door, walk to the edge of the water and walk along the bank behind as many houses as I want and it's not trespassing. Sure, the homeowners can fence their yard, but the fence can't go to the water's edge. Usually it's several feet from the waters edge up towards your house that is "common" property.
I'm not saying this is true to every development, but it might be wise to check with your HOA, if there is one.
related Other Fish Species topic
previous topic
next topic
© 2024 - fishing.qciss.net. All Rights Reserved.