Traditional sonar vs CHIRP reading SI @ speed ? 2024
LoweStinger reply :
Hey guys, I dont need an entire explanation on the difference between the 2, Just the travel speed between them with SI . Is it true you cant get a good reading when cruising with Traditional sonar but you can with CHIRP ?
Wayne P. reply :
What is the "HD" ?????
LoweStinger reply :
Sorry !! Forgive my inexperience with terms "New to all this " LOL I should have said "traditional sonar vs CHIRP"
"" I just edited the post ""
Wayne P. reply :
There would be no difference that you would notice.
Single frequency would update faster.
CHIRP sends multiple frequencies each time and adds a little more range.
Sonar broadcasts a sound pulse, waits for a return echo to record it, then broadcasts another sound pulse.
12poundbass reply :
On 2/16/2017 at 9:09 PM, LoweStinger said:Hey guys, I dont need an entire explanation on the difference between the 2, Just the travel speed between them with SI . Is it true you cant get a good reading when cruising with Traditional sonar but you can with CHIRP ?
Just out of curiosity have you decided on a unit yet?
LoweStinger reply :
On 2/17/2017 at 12:36 AM, 12poundbass said:Just out of curiosity have you decided on a unit yet?
Yes, after hours of talking to Bass Pro guys and help from everyone on here ( and flip flopping around between units lol ) .. I am going to get the Garmin Striker 7sv It has CHIRP down and side imaging "clearVU" + GPS " without mapping " just way points can be marked and thats fine for my use.
I believe this is the best bang for buck on a CHIRP SI DI GPS unit you can buy. Love that it has BOTH DI & SI !! I havent seen another unit that has this for the money..
eddallen reply :
On 2/16/2017 at 9:09 PM, LoweStinger said:Hey guys, I dont need an entire explanation on the difference between the 2, Just the travel speed between them with SI . Is it true you cant get a good reading when cruising with Traditional sonar but you can with CHIRP ?
Your questions can't be answered that simply.
There is a great different between traditional sonar and CHIRP sonar, plenty of which you can see on the screen. Speed? No matter HOW it is introduced into water, sound travels at about 4908 ft per second through about 68* water. You will NOT see any difference here as you may see in the GPS screen dependent on module.
Your ability to read the bottom at speed is more dependent on the power of the transducer and its mounting position and angle.
12poundbass reply :
On 2/17/2017 at 1:01 AM, LoweStinger said:Yes, after hours of talking to Bass Pro guys and help from everyone on here ( and flip flopping around between units lol ) .. I am going to get the Garmin Striker 7sv It has CHIRP down and side imaging "clearVU" + GPS " without mapping " just way points can be marked and thats fine for my use.
I believe this is the best bang for buck on a CHIRP SI DI GPS unit you can buy. Love that it has BOTH DI & SI !! I havent seen another unit that has this for the money..
From what I've read it's a great unit! Very user friendly. I personally am going to go with the Helix 7si g2. I thought a lot about the striker 7sv but I want auto chart live. Had I not had a set back I probably would've went with the Garmin but now that the Helix G2's are out I'm getting a couple when I get the chance.
LoweStinger reply :
On 2/17/2017 at 1:31 AM, 12poundbass said:From what I've read it's a great unit! Very user friendly. I personally am going to go with the Helix 7si g2. I thought a lot about the striker 7sv but I want auto chart live. Had I not had a set back I probably would've went with the Garmin but now that the Helix G2's are out I'm getting a couple when I get the chance.
Yeah like I said for the money $499 you cant go wrong and you have BOTH CHIRP DI & SI that I dont see in other models. That Helix 7 you are taliking about looks very nice but is around $799 !! You can get what you are talking about with the Garmin EchoMap CHIRP 73sv also for less money I believe. Looks to be same as Striker but with Maps. I was looking at this also but dont need the maps. Garmin gives both DI & SI I think is a big advantage !
LoweStinger reply :
On 2/17/2017 at 1:31 AM, 12poundbass said:From what I've read it's a great unit! Very user friendly. I personally am going to go with the Helix 7si g2. I thought a lot about the striker 7sv but I want auto chart live. Had I not had a set back I probably would've went with the Garmin but now that the Helix G2's are out I'm getting a couple when I get the chance.
Just checked the Bass Pro flyer and the Garmin Echomap 73sv goes on sale tomorrow @ $499 comes with 17000 lake maps ! You may want to look into that !!
dignan2121 reply :
The $499 73sv is the non chirp version I believe.
LoweStinger reply :
On 2/17/2017 at 6:29 AM, dignan2121 said:The $499 73sv is the non chirp version I believe.
Yes thats right. Thats why Im getting the Striker as I dont need the mapping. But still a very good deal if CHIRP isnt a deal breaker.
RoLo reply :
In my opinion, Garmin has always produced the best GPS hardware (probably due to their military contracts)
I used Garmin devices since the public release of GPS, but found Garmin software (bathymetry)
to be the worst! However, for any Garmin unit that interprets Navionics cartography, that's a non-issue.
Though CHIRP is a relatively new layman's toy, it was incepted during World War 2.
CHIRP is a form of 2D sonar that instead of emitting a fixed bandwidth, uses a range of multiple bandwidths.
CHIRP supposedly allows higher sensitivity settings without a proportional increase in noise.
'Ideally', CHIRP will offer greater noise suppression, sharper imagery thus enhanced object separation.
Roger
Wayne P. reply :
On 2/17/2017 at 7:05 AM, RoLo said:In my opinion, Garmin has always produced the best GPS hardware (probably due to their military contracts)
I used Garmin devices since the public release of GPS, but found Garmin software (bathymetry)
to be the worst! However, for any Garmin unit that interprets Navionics cartography, that's a non-issue.
Though CHIRP is a relatively new layman's toy, it was incepted during World War 2.
CHIRP is a form of 2D sonar that instead of emitting a fixed bandwidth, uses a range of multiple bandwidths.
CHIRP supposedly allows higher sensitivity settings without a proportional increase in noise.
'Ideally', CHIRP will offer greater noise suppression, sharper imagery thus enhanced object separation.
Roger
Unfortunately for recent history Garmin owners, Navionics is not compatible. Even before the non-compatible units came out in the past few years, if you did a software update, you lost the function.
I think all of that started about 2013 or 2014.
Garmin is not on the Navionics compatibility list for any models now.
http://www.navionics.com/sites/default/files/documents/americas_compatibilityguide.pdf
Basically its Garmin mapping or none. A lot of Garmin current owners consider their mapping as the best. The LakeVu Ultra HD MaxDef waters are highly praised.
RoLo reply :
On 2/17/2017 at 8:35 AM, Wayne P. said:
Unfortunately for recent history Garmin owners, Navionics is not compatible. Even before the non-compatible units came out in the past few years, if you did a software update, you lost the function.
I think all of that started about 2013 or 2014.
Garmin is not on the Navionics compatibility list for any models now.
http://www.navionics.com/sites/default/files/documents/americas_compatibilityguide.pdf
Basically its Garmin mapping or none. A lot of Garmin current owners consider their mapping as the best. The LakeVu Ultra HD MaxDef waters are highly praised.
Yes, I read that...incredible!
Darren. reply :
On 2/17/2017 at 8:35 AM, Wayne P. said:
Unfortunately for recent history Garmin owners, Navionics is not compatible. Even before the non-compatible units came out in the past few years, if you did a software update, you lost the function.
I think all of that started about 2013 or 2014.
Garmin is not on the Navionics compatibility list for any models now.
http://www.navionics.com/sites/default/files/documents/americas_compatibilityguide.pdf
Basically its Garmin mapping or none. A lot of Garmin current owners consider their mapping as the best. The LakeVu Ultra HD MaxDef waters are highly praised.
Guess that puts Garmin out of contention when I'm back
on the market for a good fish-finding unit.
Scott F reply :
I would think that not having to purchase any third party maps chips would be a benefit. Why would you need Navionics when the built in maps and ability to make your own high def maps are already in the unit? What am I missing?
Wayne P. reply :
On 2/17/2017 at 10:17 AM, Darren. said:
Guess that puts Garmin out of contention when I'm back
on the market for a good fish-finding unit.
Check Garmin's coverage and you may like what it has.
Darren. reply :
On 2/17/2017 at 11:02 AM, Wayne P. said:Check Garmin's coverage and you may like what it has.
When I'm back in the market, I will. Thanks, @Wayne P.
Though I can in no way afford one, I've been eyeing
Lowrance models under $600 with down scan and some
with SI. Would love to plot the lakes I fish as there are
zero helpful charts from Newport News for Lee Hall and
Harwood's Mill. All I got is some old barely legible map
for $3 from the Ranger station. Not very helpful...but a
chart plotting setup would certainly be! 
Wayne P. reply :
Garmin has made a major effort in the freshwater market in the past 5 years.
Competition is a good thing.
RoLo reply :
As I've mentioned in the past, I used Garmin hardware in conjunction with Navionics bathymetry
for many, many years. I'm still able to do this using 'MapSource' software, which I still have,
but is no longer available. I'm not aware of the accuracy of Garmin charts today,
but if their anything like they used to be, the accuracy is laughable (horrific)
As far as I'm concerned, the detail and accuracy of the bathymetry is everything to me.
With regard to hardware, there are always walkarounds. I realize it can only exist in gingerbread land,
but if it were possible to purchase charts with guaranteed accuracy, price would be no object
Roger
LoweStinger reply :
Well I picked up my new unit from BPS and I flopped from the Striker back to the Garmin echomap 73sv lol.... for $499 plus a $50 triple crown Bonus cash card and triple points + free installation !
The reason I went with the echoMap was in the long run I was better off with the mapping more than I thought after another 30 min chat with the sales guy lol.. Glad Im done with this venture ! Now got to wait for the snow to melt so I can get back out there fishing .
eddallen reply :
On 2/17/2017 at 7:05 AM, RoLo said:In my opinion, Garmin has always produced the best GPS hardware (probably due to their military contracts)
I used Garmin devices since the public release of GPS, but found Garmin software (bathymetry)
to be the worst! However, for any Garmin unit that interprets Navionics cartography, that's a non-issue.
Though CHIRP is a relatively new layman's toy, it was incepted during World War 2.
CHIRP is a form of 2D sonar that instead of emitting a fixed bandwidth, uses a range of multiple bandwidths.
CHIRP supposedly allows higher sensitivity settings without a proportional increase in noise.
'Ideally', CHIRP will offer greater noise suppression, sharper imagery thus enhanced object separation.
Roger
Some of this is miss-stated. CHIRP is two dimensional sonar but, CHIRP is quite different than 'traditional' sonar. CHIRP doesn't use a 'range of multiple bandwidths', but every frequency on a particular frequency band usually referred to as Low, Medium and High bands. So with traditional sonar the transducer fires a single frequency ping out, where with CHIRP, the transducer sends out a BURST of frequencies from the complete bandwidth. It is all of these frequencies at one time that produces the outstanding target separation. With CHIRP you have the capability to select any custom single frequency within the band to use also.
Wayne P. reply :
On 2/18/2017 at 4:35 AM, eddallen said:Some of this is miss-stated. CHIRP is two dimensional sonar but, CHIRP is quite different than 'traditional' sonar. CHIRP doesn't use a 'range of multiple bandwidths', but every frequency on a particular frequency band usually referred to as Low, Medium and High bands. So with traditional sonar the transducer fires a single frequency ping out, where with CHIRP, the transducer sends out a BURST of frequencies from the complete bandwidth. It is all of these frequencies at one time that produces the outstanding target separation. With CHIRP you have the capability to select any custom single frequency within the band to use also.
Don't know about other brands but with Humminbird, you can also select how much of the CHIRP frequency band to use and what part of the band to use. Example: the top 10, the middle 10, or bottom 10 frequencies of a 30 kHz wide band.
RoLo reply :
On 2/18/2017 at 4:35 AM, eddallen said:CHIRP is two dimensional sonar but, CHIRP is quite different than 'traditional' sonar.
CHIRP is not two dimensional sonar, Chirp is 'multi-frequency' sonar.
“HDI” (hybrid dual imaging) was the forerunner to Chirp, which was 2-dimensional sonar,
but HDI is 'not' Chirp. Chirp sonar deploys a multi-dimensional range, whereas Non-Chirp sonar
uses a fixed bandwidth.
Why Multi-Frequency?
Objects with a different hardness have different reflective values, therefore by deploying a range
of frequencies you're able to optimize the return signal. That alone is what Chirp sonar is all about,
there is no magic. In brief, CHIRP units produce more detail and separation than NON-CHIRP units.
Low, Medium & High are bandwidth modes 'within' Chirp capability. The actual multi-frequency range
of Low, Medium & High varies immensely from brand to brand, but the values below are a rough guide:
“Low” Chirp: ~60 to 35 kHz
“Medium Chirp: ~120 to 60 kHz
“High Chirp” ~230 to 120 kHz
Roger
12poundbass reply :
On 2/18/2017 at 9:14 AM, RoLo said:
CHIRP is 'not' two dimensional sonar, Chirp is 'multi-frequency' sonar.
“HDI” (hybrid dual imaging) was the forerunner to Chirp, and HDI was two-dimensional sonar, but HDI is 'not' Chirp.
While Non-Chirp sonar uses a fixed bandwidth, Chirp sonar utilizes a multi-dimensional range
WHY?
Different objects demonstrate different optimal reflective values, therefore by using a range of frequencies
you're able to optimize the return signal. That alone is what Chirp sonar is all about, there's no magic.
As a result of multiple frequencies, CHIRP units produce more detailed images than non-CHIRP units.
Low, Medium & High are settings WITHIN Chirp capability. The multi-frequency range of Low, Medium & High
varies from brand to brand, but the values stated below represent the mean frequency ranges:
“Low” Chirp: ~60 to 35 kHz
“Medium Chirp: ~120 to 60 kHz
“High Chirp” ~230 to 140 kHz
Roger
A light bulb just went off in my head thanks!
Wayne P. reply :
This is Humminbird's 2D CHIRP Sonar frequencies with their transducers and the adjustment highlighted for the high end of High:
The 455 kHz Imaging frequency CHIRP range is 420 kHz to 520 kHz
The 1200 kHz Imaging frequency CHIRP range is 1150 kHz to 1275 kHz
I don't have the 800 kHz Imaging range numbers yet.
eddallen reply :
Roger can you post a pic of a three-dimensional CHIRP screen shot? And one question for WayneP; When you effectively shorten or split the band by using, say, the middle 10, aren't you missing something you would normally see? Or does the firmware just apply filters to the lower and upper 10? I have not yet seen this. Would like to.
On 2/18/2017 at 9:51 AM, Wayne P. said:This is Humminbird's 2D CHIRP Sonar frequencies with their transducers and the adjustment highlighted for the high end of High:
The 455 kHz Imaging frequency CHIRP range is 420 kHz to 520 kHz
The 1200 kHz Imaging frequency CHIRP range is 1150 kHz to 1275 kHz
I don't have the 800 kHz Imaging range numbers yet.
That's pretty kewl but I wonder IF something is missing from say 140 kHz? I'm just curious.
Wayne P. reply :
No you don't miss anything by not using the whole frequency sweep except maybe some target separation. I don't use CHIRP, don't see any difference between single frequency and CHIRP in the depths I fish. Just CHIRP for testing.
Humminbirds don't have any frequencies in the 140 kHz range with their transducers. The ONIX has several other frequencies for AIRMAR transducers.
eddallen reply :
Thanks Wayne
LoweStinger reply :
Wayne is the man !! Thank you for all your help in understanding the world of sonar, you are a wealth of knowledge that made my purchase much easier ! I was able to figure out exactly what I will need and not need and why.
related Marine Electronics topic
previous topic
next topic
most viewed Marine Electronics topic
© 2024 - fishing.qciss.net. All Rights Reserved.