Side imaging overrated 2024
Ratherbfishing reply :
I'll probably receive the wrath of some of the more devout advocates on this forum and be labeled an apostate (or, worse still, a troll), BUT I had high(er) hopes for the side-imaging feature on my Helix 7 and, frankly, I'm not all that impressed. I have heard I should upgrade to a better transducer but even without it (I opted not to), I had expected to see SOME images to the side of my boat (albeit, perhaps, "fuzzier"). I've driven past KNOW features (I could SEE them it the water) and will carefully study the screen religiously to watch for ANY sign of them. But even when they were CLEARLY within the range setting and in reasonably deep water, unless it's the size of a large tree, MOST of the time...nothing. And the down imaging, too, has been a disappointment. I've gone directly OVER stumps and sunken steel barrels (things that should stand out like a sore thumb), etc. without so much as a whiff on the screen. RARELY does it ever look even remotely like the demo mode. The only feature I tend to use with regularity is the "traditional" sonar which IS clearer and useful. How CRITICAL is the transducer placement?
riverbasser reply :
I have a helix 5 with the regular transducer and I can see plenty. I have found numerous brushpiles and on the river I can see the deeper laydowns and can make out individual branches even with the small 5in screen. it does not work great in less than about 8ft of water but I am very happy. what kind of settings are you running?
Choporoz reply :
I really need some quality time with SI, but I'm really afraid that my mind will never grasp it. I'm generally good with spatial recognition and relative movement, but, man....I still have trouble bending my brain around the display. I've done the folded paper visualization and spent time with images side by side with DS or photos or 3D renderings...and still, I struggle with SI display
iabass8 reply :
This sounds like user error and it would be hard to convince anybody otherwise. I've used both SI and DI features on Lowrance and Humminbird; Scanned images show up perfectly and are very crisp. You need to get somebody to show you how to use it properly and do some homework via youtube.
Ratherbfishing reply :
On 10/20/2016 at 1:48 AM, iabass8 said:This sounds like user error and it would be hard to convince anybody otherwise. I've used both SI and DI features on Lowrance and Humminbird; Scanned images show up perfectly and are very crisp. You need to get somebody to show you how to use it properly and do some homework via youtube.
I KNEW someone would say this. I'm not an idiot, however.
iabass8 reply :
On 10/20/2016 at 1:49 AM, Ratherbfishing said:I KNEW someone would say this. I'm not an idiot, however.
I'm not calling you an idiot. Being that you are unable to see anything clearly and are unable to distinguish anything on the screen, your unit is not set up correctly and/or you are not using it correctly. It takes practice to figure them out and there is a learning curve.
Ratherbfishing reply :
On 10/20/2016 at 1:52 AM, iabass8 said:I'm not calling you an idiot. Being that you are unable to see anything clearly and are unable to distinguish anything on the screen, your unit is not set up correctly and/or you are not using it correctly. It takes practice to figure them out and there is a learning curve.
Sorry, my reaction may have been a little too strong.
Not seeing things clearly and not at all are two different things. Usually there is nothing. At what depth do you have to be in before things are "seen"?
iabass8 reply :
On 10/20/2016 at 2:01 AM, Ratherbfishing said:Sorry, my reaction may have been a little too strong.
Not seeing things clearly and not at all are two different things. Usually there is nothing. At what depth do you have to be in before things are "seen"?
I've used side imaging in water as shallow as 3' /w success. I've had it on before in 2 FOW and have no issues but generally if I'm not on pad I hop off the big motor that shallow. The deepest I've used it is around 25' or so. I think Wayne has some pretty good screenshots of super shallow side imaging.
Ratherbfishing reply :
Wayne's screen shots are MILES away from what I generally see. I wish I had a large pool in which I could place different objects of different shapes and at different depths to practice. But then again, I have "driven" directly over known objects (ensuring the transducer was right on top of-for the down imaging) and, generally, very little to report. I've changed the settings (including range) with little to report except, for instance, a different color. The regular 2D sonar seems to be fine but the other modes, not so much. And if all I wanted was an improved 2d sonar, I could have spent considerably less.
gimruis reply :
That royally sucks. Nothing worse than spending lots of money for something with a lot of hype only to be disappointed by the result. I don't have side imaging and I've often considered upgrading but your thread has questioned that potential now.
portiabrat reply :
Something is definitely wrong, and I'm nearly certain it has nothing to do with your ability to interpret the screen. You should be able to clearly see big stumps and boulders with side imaging.
Hopefully, your settings are just messed up, because then it's an easy fix. Typically, the default side-imaging sensitivity is set way too high. Try setting yours lower. Also, be aware have to manually adjust sensitivity for different depths.
pawpaw reply :
On 10/20/2016 at 2:18 AM, Ratherbfishing said:Wayne's screen shots are MILES away from what I generally see. I wish I had a large pool in which I could place different objects of different shapes and at different depths to practice. But then again, I have "driven" directly over known objects (ensuring the transducer was right on top of-for the down imaging) and, generally, very little to report. I've changed the settings (including range) with little to report except, for instance, a different color. The regular 2D sonar seems to be fine but the other modes, not so much. And if all I wanted was an improved 2d sonar, I could have spent considerably less.
Can you do a split screen with 2d and D.I.? If not switch back and forth between them before the known objects leave the screen. See if the known objects are showing up on the 2D and not the DI. If you can see them in 2D I would say you do have some sort of problem with something in your DI. Can you post the settings on your DI?
Crappiebasser reply :
I suggest getting someone who has had Humminbird SI for a while go fishing with you. I had similar issues to start but a buddy helped me with settings and lowered the transducer a bit to clear it up.
Ratherbfishing reply :
On 10/20/2016 at 4:06 AM, pawpaw said:Can you post the settings on your DI?
This is where I AM an idiot. Perhaps I can-after some time.
On 10/20/2016 at 4:06 AM, pawpaw said:Can you do a split screen with 2d and D.I.?
I hadn't thought to try this but that should be illuminating (maybe).
J Francho reply :
On 10/20/2016 at 4:06 AM, pawpaw said:Can you do a split screen with 2d and D.I.? If not switch back and forth between them before the known objects leave the screen. See if the known objects are showing up on the 2D and not the DI. If you can see them in 2D I would say you do have some sort of problem with something in your DI. Can you post the settings on your DI?
You can do a quad screen with whatever screens you want to define in it. I like run half screen DI, quarter DI or Chirp, quarter GPS, zoomed in.
pawpaw reply :
On 10/20/2016 at 4:09 AM, Ratherbfishing said:This is where I AM an idiot. Perhaps I can-after some time.
Not at all. There is definitely a learning curve.
I think I would reset factory defaults and see if something in the settings didn't get jacked up or something. I know it's a pain to reset all your views and what not but it could be worth it.
Another common problem is during install the transducer was set level with the boat sitting level on the trailer. The problem there is your boat will not be exactly level when your idling at 3-4 mph. The bow will be higher. To measure this I took a 2' level with me in the boat. I laid the level on the floor and while idling my buddy stacked coins under the low side of the level until it was level then noted how many coins it took. When I got home I put the coins back under the level and jacked up the trailer until I had the same pitch again. Then go back and check the transducer for level. If it's not level, correct it.
Hopefully one or both of these will help. Good luck
A-Jay reply :
I'd really encourage you not to give up on SI ~ It's not The End All as far as imaging goes - but it's been a game changer for me.
BUT there was a learning curve for me too. I've had the Si on the Lund for a few months now (via a Helix 10) - It's definitely helped me find cover which has directly resulted in fish I may have never found with out it.
My guess is your unit is not tuned correctly - like a bad picture on an old TV - you'll get it right.
And when you do - you'll see what it's capable of.
A-Jay
Team9nine reply :
I agree that something isn't right, but it's hard to diagnose exactly what over the Internet sometimes. I'd second the recommendation to reset the defaults to factory settings, then next time you are out on the water, take a couple pics while running around and post on the site so we can have an idea of just what you are (or are not) seeing. I think that would be very helpful in this situation.
-T9
Ski213 reply :
Yeah don't give up on it yet. It took me a bit to get where it was of much use to me. It helps to just go out and spend time not fishing, focusing only on adjusting settings and stuff.
One thing that really helped me 1) gain some faith in SI and 2) gain a better understanding of what I was seeing was using the recording feature. Not sure if you have that option or not with your unit.
I spent 2 hrs just trolling around a 100 acre reservoir where I know (or thought I knew) most of the underwater features. My buddy fished but I really didn't at all. I downloaded a trial version of a sonar viewing program and watched the recording like a movie.
It helped me a ton. The program allowed me change palettes and contrast and on a 15" laptop screen. I used a view where I was looking at sonar DI, and SI. Because I was reviewing it in my kitchen I wasn't doing anything but focusing on the returns. I always felt like I was focusing on the boat but I missed a lot.
After spending some time like that I started having much better luck using imaging while fishing. Once I convinced myself it actually worked I started playing more with range and stuff a lot of what I had read started clicking. Might not help you at all but it definitely made a huge difference for me.
flyfisher reply :
I bought my helix 5 SI this past spring and after playing with it and using it all summer i am just now getting the hang of it and learning what i am seeing. I also did upgrade to the HD transducer and it is a world of difference. Take some time to learn it and make sure it is set up properly. I also fish from a kayak and frequent shallow water and have seen images on my screen of bluegill beds that look like honeycombs 40 feet away.
It has definitely enabled me to catch some fish that otherwise I wouldn't have.
Ohio Archer reply :
Watch this video on how to setup your transducer.
Also, with SI you do not need to run directly over an object. just to the side. Find a known object, mark it with a buoy, move past it with your SI and DI split screen on. Make adjustments to your Sensitivity and Contrast. You may need to change the Palette colors as well. SI and DI are very sensitive to water depth compared to 2D, meaning as water depth changes your setting will need to also. There is no "automatic" setting.
Your chart speed must also match the boat speed. SI and DI are usually good up to about 5-6 mph only.
Do a search for Doug Vahrenberg and watch his videos or posts on other websites. His info will be extremely helpful to you.
The attached chart settings are applicable to Helix as will. I have a & SI and love it for the detail it shows.
Wayne P. reply :
On 10/20/2016 at 6:43 PM, Ohio Archer said:Watch this video on how to setup your transducer.
Also, with SI you do not need to run directly over an object. just to the side. Find a known object, mark it with a buoy, move past it with your SI and DI split screen on. Make adjustments to your Sensitivity and Contrast. You may need to change the Palette colors as well. SI and DI are very sensitive to water depth compared to 2D, meaning as water depth changes your setting will need to also. There is no "automatic" setting.
Your chart speed must also match the boat speed. SI and DI are usually good up to about 5-6 mph only.
Do a search for Doug Vahrenberg and watch his videos or posts on other websites. His info will be extremely helpful to you.
The attached chart settings are applicable to Helix as will. I have a & SI and love it for the detail it shows.
SI and DI works great from Zero to about 12 mph if you can maintain good water contact. That is what the Chart Speed setting allows. The setting range is 1-10.
Goose52 reply :
I was on the lake today, saw this SI image, thought of this thread, and got a screen shot. This is a Helix 10 with the HDSI transducer. Depth is only 12 feet but you can see a bunch of stuff on each side, including spawning beds. When I had my HB 798 with the standard compact transducer I would not have seen this much detail, this sharp, but I would have seen enough to know if I wanted to work over that area.
So, for me, and with the equipment that I've had, I'd say the last 5 years that I've been using SI has indeed let me see more stuff...and catch more fish...
pawpaw reply :
On 10/24/2016 at 3:58 AM, Goose52 said:I was on the lake today, saw this SI image, thought of this thread, and got a screen shot. This is a Helix 10 with the HDSI transducer. Depth is only 12 feet but you can see a bunch of stuff on each side, including spawning beds. When I had my HB 798 with the standard compact transducer I would not have seen this much detail but I would have seen enough to know if I wanted to work over that area.
So, for me, and with the equipment that I've had, I'd say the last 5 years that I've been using SI has indeed let me see more stuff...and catch more fish...
Nice shot. The HDSI is a step up for sure.
Did you change your scroll speed or boat speed half way through this shot?
Goose52 reply :
On 10/24/2016 at 4:04 AM, pawpaw said:Nice shot. The HDSI is a step up for sure.
Did you change your scroll speed or boat speed half way through this shot?
Boat speed - at the bottom of the SI image I was drifting and not moving fast enough to get a good return so I cranked on some speed and got some sharp detail that you see at the top of of the image.
pawpaw reply :
Got it. You can definitely see it. Your settings are spot on in that shot. VERY NICE!!
Wayne P. reply :
On 10/24/2016 at 3:58 AM, Goose52 said:I was on the lake today, saw this SI image, thought of this thread, and got a screen shot. This is a Helix 10 with the HDSI transducer. Depth is only 12 feet but you can see a bunch of stuff on each side, including spawning beds. When I had my HB 798 with the standard compact transducer I would not have seen this much detail, this sharp, but I would have seen enough to know if I wanted to work over that area.
So, for me, and with the equipment that I've had, I'd say the last 5 years that I've been using SI has indeed let me see more stuff...and catch more fish...
Other than speed what was the difference between the top half and bottom half?
You have RFI on the bottom half.
pawpaw reply :
On 10/24/2016 at 5:28 AM, Wayne P. said:Other than speed what was the difference between the top half and bottom half?
You have RFI on the bottom half.
Moved from the trolling motor to big motor to pick up speed?
Goose52 reply :
You guys have me re-thinking about what exactly I was doing when I hit the "mark" button !
I was drifting and saw some return - I cranked on the speed from the TM and got a better return, then probably killed (or reduced power on) the TM when I decided to get a screen grab and started reaching for the "mark" button. So, the upper part is probably with the TM off or reduced power but still "coasting" and registering speed.
If that IS RFI (and if Wayne says it is then I guess it is!) and not just a diminished return due to too slow a speed...then I need to play with this some on the water. My sonar and TM are on the same battery. Perhaps I need to sometime power the sonar off my 7AH battery while in the boat to see if there's a difference. This is puzzling to me as I've had very sharp SI images when I'm on the TM (albeit at lower power levels). Wayne, do think there is a TM power level threshold above which I've got the RFI? I really "goosed" the TM when I came out of the drift and perhaps I was above that RFI threshold ?
BTW - there is no " big motor" - only the the TM !
Wayne P. reply :
On 10/24/2016 at 6:00 AM, Goose52 said:You guys have me re-thinking about what exactly I was doing when I hit the "mark" button !
I was drifting and saw some return - I cranked on the speed from the TM and got a better return, then probably killed (or reduced power on) the TM when I decided to get a screen grab and started reaching for the "mark" button. So, the upper part is probably with the TM off or reduced power but still "coasting" and registering speed.
If that IS RFI (and if Wayne says it is then I guess it is!) and not just a diminished return due to too slow a speed...then I need to play with this some on the water. My sonar and TM are on the same battery. Perhaps I need to sometime power the sonar off my 7AH battery while in the boat to see if there's a difference. This is puzzling to me as I've had very sharp SI images when I'm on the TM (albeit at lower power levels). Wayne, do think there is a TM power level threshold above which I've got the RFI? I really "goosed" the TM when I came out of the drift and perhaps I was above that RFI threshold ?
BTW - there is no " big motor" - only the the TM !
Whatever you were doing last has no RFI as evidenced by the sharper upper part of the image. SI records from the top to the bottom of the display--current data is at the top of the screen.
Typically when you run a variable speed trolling motor, you can eliminate RFI at the highest speed setting since the pulsing circuit is bypassed. But at any range of speed settings, the RFI frequency can be a little different and may or may not affect the sonar frequency.
Connecting the unit power to the trolling motor power is one thing to avoid.
BUT, having separate power is not a cure-all either. Just something you have to deal with if you experience that issue. There is no "one size fits all" to cure RFI. Each installation is unique.
Goose52 reply :
On 10/24/2016 at 6:31 AM, Wayne P. said:Whatever you were doing last has no RFI as evidenced by the sharper upper part of the image. SI records from the top to the bottom of the display--current data is at the top of the screen.
Typically when you run a variable speed trolling motor, you can eliminate RFI at the highest speed setting since the pulsing circuit is bypassed. But at any range of speed settings, the RFI frequency can be a little different and may or may not affect the sonar frequency.
Connecting the unit power to the trolling motor power is one thing to avoid.
BUT, having separate power is not a cure-all either. Just something you have to deal with if you experience that issue. There is no "one size fits all" to cure RFI. Each installation is unique.
Thanks Wayne. "Catching" is starting to slow down a bit here so it looks like I can spend some time on the water playing with different TM power levels. I generally use fairly low power levels when scanning the sonar and only use the higher power levels when motoring from place to place so I don't think the RFI in the above screen shot is going to be a big issue.
I knew that powering both the TM and sonar from the same battery is generally not recommended, but I do it for simplicity since the boat in question is a canoe and there are packaging considerations !
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