Old Town @ Dicks Sporting Goods 2024
ArcticCat500 reply :
I stopped by the local DSG and found an Old Town/Field & Stream Kay-Noe, this thing was 15ft long and wide as hell, anybody seen, owned or even fished in one? Looking for opinions on it.
TY
Fishing Rhino reply :
I have this version.
http://www.oldtowncanoe.com/canoes/generalFamily/camper_15.html
I really like it, but it does have its limitations. Canoes are best on calm days or in gentle breezes. The wind raises Cain with them.
I fish in one. Some like kayaks better, but I prefer the canoe. You can carry more gear and goods. Don't advise standing in it.
Nine rods, three tackle boxes, a fish finder, a five gallon bucket to use as a wind anchor, and another holding a ten pound mushroom anchor.
The paddle stows to my right, and the landing net to my left.
I can do everything without leaving my seat, while I am on the water.
As rigged, it's a one man boat. I can remove the rod holders, making it usable for two in a matter of a few minutes. Can't take as many rods then.
Great on small bodies of water or fishing sheltered coves and shores of larger ponds and lakes.
J Francho reply :
I've seen it, looks OK, but heavy. As for canoe vs. yak, Its a personal preference. I can carry as much as above, and I can stand. Canoes are far less stable than a wide beam SOT fishing yak. They handle the wind much better. I carry two sizes of drift socks and an anchor. A kayak takes less energy to paddle. Some people are comfortable in canoe, as it feels bigger. With a canoe, you can fish with a partner if desired. Pluses and minuses to each.
OH-bass614 reply :
Is it really that stable it looks to me that you would fall out the minute you set a hook
ArcticCat500 reply :
thats a great job on that canoe, did you build the rod racks? I use to fish a Great Canadian for years and never a bit of trouble, I'd stand and practically walk about it, not the stability of a JB for sure but alone I never had a problem, and when fished with a friend no trouble then either. I like the thought of this thing, seems easy to handle and looks pretty sturdy, I just wish I could find someone out there with 1, take a look at the you tube vide, just imagine it 15ft and wider with a flat back for a motor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XNKCqX24aM
J Francho reply :
QuoteIs it really that stable it looks to me that you would fall out the minute you set a hook
Really, its that stable. It has a 34" beam, and what amounts to a long sponson running up either side of the hull.
Another, right before a hook set:
And a shot of it on my car:
Marty reply :
QuoteI really like it, but it does have its limitations. Canoes are best on calm days or in gentle breezes. The wind raises Cain with them.
I've used a canoe for two years now. Yes, the wind can blow me around at trolling speed, but that's one of the tradeoffs. Anchoring is a PITA, but I fish shallow, soft-bottomed water and the anchor holds very well. Also, slime mats or thick lily pads can serve as anchors.
QuoteI fish in one. Some like kayaks better, but I prefer the canoe. You can carry more gear and goods. Don't advise standing in it.
I agree, even though John can carry a lot of stuff in his kayak. I also like the fact that I have such easy access to everything I bring. Mine is pretty wide and I can stand in it, but I don't very often. The width makes it very stable, but the tradeoff to that is paddling inefficiency.
I don't want to get into the canoe-vs.-kayak thing, to each their own, but for me my two choices were either an ultralight Kevlar canoe or nothing.
Fishing Rhino reply :
Quotethats a great job on that canoe, did you build the rod racks? I use to fish a Great Canadian for years and never a bit of trouble, I'd stand and practically walk about it, not the stability of a JB for sure but alone I never had a problem, and when fished with a friend no trouble then either. I like the thought of this thing, seems easy to handle and looks pretty sturdy, I just wish I could find someone out there with 1, take a look at the you tube vide, just imagine it 15ft and wider with a flat back for a motor.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XNKCqX24aM
Yes, I built them. This is the second incarnation. The first prototype was fine, but had some minor flaws. The spacing on the forward rack was not correct. Ditto for the larger rack for the butts. The cutouts were a little too close together.
I used a piece of 1/2 inch plywood that was hanging around. The new version is made of cabinet grade birch plywood. 1/2" is nine ply. Seven core layers and two veneer layers. Much nicer for this type of job.
The other rack could hold eight rods, and the paddle in the center of them. The old forward rack had a straight top, the new version is crowned. It's a cheat to provide a longer surface than straight. It allows for a bit more space between the tips that way.
Esthetically it is more pleasing, to me anyway.
Took more pains. Used a drill press and a jig to hold the rack so all the dowels lined up nicely. The prototype was done with a hand drill. Looked like it needed an orthodontist. But it worked.
The best part is the white cushion for the butts. It is weatherstripping. But it is neat, clean, tough and durable. Got it at Home Depot. It's Frost King EPDM Rubber Weatherseal. 5/8" wide by 5/16" thick. Its ribbed. Will not harden, crack or freeze and retains its shape in sub-zero temps. It's a lot like a gasket on a fridge.
Self stick. Peel the tape off the back as you go. I've given it a pretty good tug, and it does not separate from the wood. In fact, when applying it, if it touched a surface it wanted to stay.
Several coats of marine polyurethane on the pieces. That way, it cannot absorb moisture which could get to the weatherseal, and perhaps ruin the bond.
To protect the rod tips, I used a piece of 3/8" clear plastic tubing. I made a cut lengthwise so it could be slipped over the pegs. Then I marked where each peg was, drilled at the marks, then slipped the tubing over the pegs. A couple of pan head phillips stainless steel screws at each end secured it nicely. Between that screw and the peg on each end, I put another screw, leaving 1/4" between the head and the plastic tubing.
Hook a canopy bungee cord on that screw, stretch it across the rods and hook it over the screw on the other end. When transporting the canoe, it prevents them from bouncing out or chattering and getting scuffed. Just prior to launch, I remove the bungee.
At the butt end, I have a dowel between and below each rod that is angled downward at the tip. When fishing, I hook a bungee at each end and across the rods. If I tip, it will keep them with the canoe.
When traveling, I hook the bungee over every other rod. Makes them very snug in the rack.
What might not show in that photo is the cord that goes to the tackle box under the front seat. I use it to pull the tackle box to me, then use the paddle to slide it back. It's the perfect height to stow under the seat, and slide beneath the center thwart.
One other thing. What is the front seat as I use it, is really the rear seat. It balances better because the front seat is closer to the center of the canoe. The canoe is pretty near symetrical so it handles just as well.
The canoe in that video is 6 to 8 inches wider than the Old Town I have.
I capsized mine once last summer. Stupid me, I was poking at something with the paddle and I stretched out over the side of the canoe. Splash. When I fell out, it righted itself, but I had to gather a couple of the tackle boxes, the paddle, and the landing net.
Fortunately I was only in about four feet of water. I bailed it out, walked it to shore, got everything organized, boarded it, and continued fishing. That will not happen again.
Land Surveyor13 reply :
Well I will say I am impressed with the setup of the canoe and the kayak. However I am not giving up my boat!
J Francho reply :
Tom, your canoe is beautifully rigged, and thanks for the detailed explanation of your mods.
Fishing Rhino reply :
QuoteQuoteI really like it, but it does have its limitations. Canoes are best on calm days or in gentle breezes. The wind raises Cain with them.I've used a canoe for two years now. Yes, the wind can blow me around at trolling speed, but that's one of the tradeoffs. Anchoring is a PITA, but I fish shallow, soft-bottomed water and the anchor holds very well. Also, slime mats or thick lily pads can serve as anchors.
QuoteI fish in one. Some like kayaks better, but I prefer the canoe. You can carry more gear and goods. Don't advise standing in it.I agree, even though John can carry a lot of stuff in his kayak. I also like the fact that I have such easy access to everything I bring. Mine is pretty wide and I can stand in it, but I don't very often. The width makes it very stable, but the tradeoff to that is paddling inefficiency.
I don't want to get into the canoe-vs.-kayak thing, to each their own, but for me my two choices were either an ultralight Kevlar canoe or nothing.
The pond I fish most has a rocky shore. The east side of the pond is mostly farm fields. The west side is heavily wooded with a few homes. However, there are stone walls running through the areas around the pond which tells me that the woodlands were once all open fields.
I suspect the rocks around the pond are the result of farmers clearing those fields. On average, once you get 20 to 30 feet from the shore, the bottom is soft mud. There are also a few "jetties" that run out from the shore, which are obviously man made. But not recently.
The shore is thick with vegetation.
One of my tricks, if the wind tries to blow me along the shore is to back the canoe into this vegetation (thick lily pads, and water hyacinth work as well), then fan cast the area thoroughly. Move 30 - 40 feet and repeat the process. It works very well.
J Francho reply :
I do the same type of thing in the yak, except I use the skeg to hang in the pads and anchor the boat. I also will use the paddle as a mud anchor, like flats fishers do. In open water, I have an 8# mushroom, a small grappling anchor, or a drift sock to slow the drift.
Fishing Rhino reply :
QuoteI do the same type of thing in the yak, except I use the skeg to hang in the pads and anchor the boat. I also will use the paddle as a mud anchor, like flats fishers do. In open water, I have an 8# mushroom, a small grappling anchor, or a drift sock to slow the drift.
Too cheap to buy a drift sock. Yeah, I know all that spent on equipment and too cheap..........................
I use a five gallon bucket with a three line harness to its mouth. Really slows the drift and keeps the boat from swinging back and forth.
Costs nothing, plus it provides storage for bottles of water and miscellaneous stuff. Drilled four one inch holes in the bottom. I figured a round parachute spills air through a hole in the top for some reason, possibly to keep it more stable. It should work on a bucket as well. It is stable. Because of the holes? Who knows?
J Francho reply :
LOL, I hear ya. If it works....QuoteToo cheap to buy a drift sock.
ArcticCat500 reply :
I have to admit those are some sweet fishing machines outside the normal JB's n all.
Here's a picture of the boat/canoe/kayak whatever you'all wana call it, they label it as a Kay-Noe. Lotta room and looks pretty good
Fishing Rhino reply :
QuoteI have to admit those are some sweet fishing machines outside the normal JB's n all.Here's a picture of the boat/canoe/kayak whatever you'all wana call it, they label it as a Kay-Noe. Lotta room and looks pretty good
It should work just fine. Square stern, ready for trolling or small outboard motor. I notice it has a bit of a keel, which is also good. It will greatly reduce sideways drift in a breeze, and also help it track better when under power.
I'm guessing, but it looks like you could stand in it to fish. I'd suggest doing it in shallow water until you get your sealegs under you, just in case.
Looks versatile. I'd say it will work just fine as long as you stay within its limitations. It'll give you many, many hours of pleasure.
ArcticCat500 reply :
QuoteQuoteI have to admit those are some sweet fishing machines outside the normal JB's n all.Here's a picture of the boat/canoe/kayak whatever you'all wana call it, they label it as a Kay-Noe. Lotta room and looks pretty good
It should work just fine. Square stern, ready for trolling or small outboard motor. I notice it has a bit of a keel, which is also good. It will greatly reduce sideways drift in a breeze, and also help it track better when under power.
I'm guessing, but it looks like you could stand in it to fish. I'd suggest doing it in shallow water until you get your sealegs under you, just in case.
Looks versatile. I'd say it will work just fine as long as you stay within its limitations. It'll give you many, many hours of pleasure.
If I do go for it it'll be in the spring....Im just trying to aviod the whole trailer thing and find something a little longer...I've fished in canoes for years, but you're right, I'd need to get my seallegs back..lol
J Francho reply :
Looks like you found the boat . I dig it, looks pretty good. Here is your PFD: http://www.kayakfishingstuff.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Extrasport-Osprey&Category_Code=PFD
Tokyo Tony reply :
Arctic Cat - I have that EXACT canoe ;D
I'll start with the good - it's extremely stable, and you have plenty of space to fish two people very comfortably. My brother and I fish out of it all the time, and both of us can stand and fish comfortably. However, we have been fishing canoes since we were little kids, so we do have good canoe balance. I can see if you fish with someone with poor balance or with a very tall person, that you couldn't both stand. However, it is very stable for a canoe.
It holds pretty well in the wind because it's pretty heavy for a canoe, and it tracks well with a trolling motor. Weight load isn't an issue - I think you could load it with coolers of water and it would be fine.
For the most part, I love it. A couple problems, however. First, the back bottom is very thin plastic, and due to very slight dragging, I actually got a couple tiny holes. I have been using duct tape to keep them shut, but I do have waterproof epoxy and some other stuff to fix it permanently.
Lastly, the material is obviously pretty cheap (hence the price of the canoe). It bends too easily, which poses a bit of a problem when strapping it on your car. When you cinch your straps down tight, the canoe kind of bends, so you have to find a happy medium.
If you have any specific questions, ask away. For the price, you really can't beat this canoe though. I highly recommend it.
Tokyo Tony reply :
By the way, these canoes used to be "Quest" company. Now they've changed, but it's the exact same canoe.
This spring I plan on getting the one-seater so I can take it to remote places by myself. Can't wait 8-)
J Francho reply :
Its the other way around, Tony. Quest is/was Dick's Private Label. Old Town made them for Dick's.
J Francho reply :
Tony, check this out: http://www.oceankayak.com/kayaks/angler_editions/big_yak_angler.html.
Tokyo Tony reply :
Ehh, not a big fan of kayaks. My personal reasons for preferring a one-seater canoe:
You can store more crap, and not worry about anything falling out of it.
Canoes seem all-around more stable, although the one in your link does look pretty stable.
You stay drier in canoes, both with the wave factor and while paddling.
It's much easier to mount a trolling motor on a canoe.
It will be easier to strap a one-seater canoe to my car than a kayak. I don't want to get a kayak rack, although I know it is possible to strap one down without a rack.
Fishing Rhino reply :
QuoteYou stay drier in canoes, both with the wave factor and while paddling.quote]
That's for sure, but it has more to do with the paddling. I tried one of our kayak paddles with the canoe, ONE TIME! Thought it would move the canoe faster, which it did.
The bugaboo was that water would run from the paddle to my hand, then onto my lap with every stroke from both sides. I altered my paddling and gave the paddle a shake every time I lifted it from the water. That more than offset the advantage gained.
My one mistake was I got wooden paddles for the canoe. Since I frequently fish right along the shore, there are times I pole as much as paddle.
I beat one paddle into ruination last year. I can grind it and build it back with fiberglass, but had I started with plastic, it would have been dinged and scuffed, but still usable. Wood is great until you remove the protective finish, be it varnish, paint or polyurethane.
J Francho reply :
That's what drip rings were made for: http://www.kayakfishingstuff.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Can-DripRing&Category_Code=pdlQuoteThe bugaboo was that water would run from the paddle to my hand, then onto my lap with every stroke from both sides.
Fishing Rhino reply :
QuoteThat's what drip rings were made for: http://www.kayakfishingstuff.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Can-DripRing&Category_Code=pdlQuoteThe bugaboo was that water would run from the paddle to my hand, then onto my lap with every stroke from both sides.
They have drip rings. Maybe it was my paddling technique but hands or drip rings, when the paddle passed over me, the water ran from the drip rings as well, and ended up in my lap.
I tried extending my arms forward, but that was awkward for me. I wish I could have made it work. It did propel the canoe faster.
J Francho reply :
Not sure why the paddle passed over you. That doesn't happen when I paddle. ???
At any rate, a little water doesn't bother me. I end up getting wet no matter where I fish. Its part of the deal with watersports.
J Francho reply :
Wait, I think I get it now. Its probably because either the paddle shaft itself is too short, or you're trying use a kayak paddle like a canoe paddle. Most kayak paddles are 220cm. Since I have a wide beam to deal with, my paddle is 240cm. When one blade is in the water, the should not be over you're head.
Fishing Rhino reply :
QuoteWait, I think I get it now. Its probably because either the paddle shaft itself is too short, or you're trying use a kayak paddle like a canoe paddle. Most kayak paddles are 220cm. Since I have a wide beam to deal with, my paddle is 240cm. When one blade is in the water, the should not be over you're head.
OK, I did not make it clear. When one end of the paddle dips into the water, the other is higher than my head. Any water carried by the paddle then runs down the handle to the ring, then off the ring, into my lap. As I said, it may have been my technique in using the paddle. It wasn't a waterfall coming off the drip ring, but after a few dozen strokes, it was probably a couple of cups.
This video shows water coming off the paddle onto the deck of a kayak. In my canoe. there is no deck, and that water ends up on my legs and lap.
http://search.live.com/video/results.aspx?q=paddling+a+kayak&first=21&docid=221996056647&FORM=TVVR14
Marty reply :
QuoteWood is great until you remove the protective finish, be it varnish, paint or polyurethane.
Can't a protective finish be reapplied?
J Francho reply :
gotcha...yeah, the paddle he's using wouldn't make a mess. My paddle is a lot longer. He's in a SIK, and wearing a skirt on hull that is totally different than mine. I can't do that stuff w/ my kayak at all. My hull doesn't lean like that.QuoteQuoteWait, I think I get it now. Its probably because either the paddle shaft itself is too short, or you're trying use a kayak paddle like a canoe paddle. Most kayak paddles are 220cm. Since I have a wide beam to deal with, my paddle is 240cm. When one blade is in the water, the should not be over you're head.OK, I did not make it clear. When one end of the paddle dips into the water, the other is higher than my head. Any water carried by the paddle then runs down the handle to the ring, then off the ring, into my lap. As I said, it may have been my technique in using the paddle. It wasn't a waterfall coming off the drip ring, but after a few dozen strokes, it was probably a couple of cups.
This video shows water coming off the paddle onto the deck of a kayak. In my canoe. there is no deck, and that water ends up on my legs and lap.
http://search.live.com/video/results.aspx?q=paddling+a+kayak&first=21&docid=221996056647&FORM=TVVR14
Anyway, look at this goofball's rig, I'd just build something like LBH's jon.
http://www.kayak-charters.com/html/signature_kayak.html
Fishing Rhino reply :
Anyway, look at this goofball's rig, I'd just build something like LBH's jon.
http://www.kayak-charters.com/html/signature_kayak.html
I have to admit, that's quite a rig. I don't know that I'd care to fish out of it however. I like 360 degrees of nothing but open space around me.
The only snag on my rig is when I'm using the fish finder. The transducer is suction cupped to the side of the hull.
I also got a kick out of the stabilizers. The "pontoons" are 7 X 14 Carlon buoys. When I was lobstering, we used them on "high flyers".
http://store.vernondeon.com/index.php?opt=detail&ID=141&PID=2654
I do like the guys creativity however.
Thanks for that link.
Fishing Rhino reply :
QuoteQuoteWood is great until you remove the protective finish, be it varnish, paint or polyurethane.Can't a protective finish be reapplied?
Yes, it could. The problems are, I'm out almost everyday. As soon as you chew up a few spots, the wood fibers begin absorbing water. They'd have to dry, then be sanded and filled, and sanded again, then refinished.
It's just not practical for the way I use the paddle. Plastic is not subject to absorbing water, even when it's dinged up.
I'm partial to wood, because I've done a lot of woodworking, as a job and a hobby, plus home projects. It has its strengths and weaknesses.
Using it to poke around in rocky water is not one of its strengths.
By the way, do you know that pound for pound wood is stronger than just about any other material, including steel, aluminum and fiberglass. The problem is it has a lot more bulk, pound for pound.
Prior to the development of carbon fiber and kevlar, many racing hulls were made up of thin layers of wood veneers. They were very light, had a lot of inherent stiffness, and very fast.
In fact, many if not all PT Boats were made of wood. Two layers of wood planking literally formed a "plywood" hull.
The design competition and seaworthiness trials for the PT boat was nicknamed "The Plywood Derby" and took place prior to the United States entering the war, in early 1941. The Navy Department held these competition trials around New York Harbor. This was a shakedown to see which company would be contracted to build the Navy PT boats. At the completion of the trials, the Navy was impressed with all three designs, with the Elco 77-footer coming out on top, followed by the Higgins 76-footer and Huckins 72-foot boat. Although Elco came in first, the Navy saw the merits of the other two boats and decided to offer all three companies contracts. Elco received the lion's share of the contract (385 boats by the end of the war), Higgins was second (199 boats by the end of the war) and Huckins with the smallest contract (18 boats by the end of the war, none of which would see combat, being assigned to home defense squadrons in the Panama Canal Zone, Miami, Florida and in Hawaii at Pearl Harbor). Huckins was a tiny yacht-building company in Jacksonville, Florida and was unable to build the number of boats needed by the Navy. Although they built a few 78-foot (24 m) boats of the PT-95 class, the 80-foot (24.4 m) Elco and the 78-foot (24 m) Higgins boats became the standard American motor torpedo boats of World War II. By war's end, more of the 80-foot Elco boats were built than any other type of motor torpedo boat (326 of their 80-foot boats were built). Elco also produced 49 of their 77-foot boats and ten 70-foot boats.
[edit] Elco
The Elco Naval Division boats were the largest in size of the three types of PT boats built for the US Navy used during World War II. The 80-foot (24.4 m) wooden-hulled craft were classified as boats in comparison with much larger steel-hulled destroyers, but were comparable in size to many wooden sailing ships in history. They had a 20 ft 8 in (6.3 m) beam. Though often said to be made of plywood, they were actually made of two diagonal layered 1-inch thick mahogany planks, with a glue-impregnated layer of canvas in between. Holding all this together were thousands of bronze screws and copper rivets. As an example of the strength of this type of construction, the hull of the PT-109 was strong enough that airtight compartments kept the forward hull afloat for hours even after being cut in half by a destroyer. Additionally, damage to the wooden hulls of these boats could be easily repaired at the front lines by base force personnel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT_boats
ArcticCat500 reply :
guys thanks for all the help...I wont be pulling the trigger on a new ride til the wearhter warms, but Fishing Rhino I may seek your expertise on that rod rack....
J Francho reply :
QuoteAnyway, look at this goofball's rig, I'd just build something like LBH's jon.http://www.kayak-charters.com/html/signature_kayak.html
I have to admit, that's quite a rig. I don't know that I'd care to fish out of it however. I like 360 degrees of nothing but open space around me.
The only snag on my rig is when I'm using the fish finder. The transducer is suction cupped to the side of the hull.
I also got a kick out of the stabilizers. The "pontoons" are 7 X 14 Carlon buoys. When I was lobstering, we used them on "high flyers".
http://store.vernondeon.com/index.php?opt=detail&ID=141&PID=2654
I do like the guys creativity however.
Thanks for that link.
I think that rig is ridiculous, LOL. He's one of those insane, creative, geniuses.
I have occasionally snagged my own rods in the holders behind me. I've gotten used to them being there now. I use a thru-hull transducer for my unit. Its very convenient. You can see it installed in the scupper hole here:
Fishing Rhino reply :
Quoteguys thanks for all the help...I wont be pulling the trigger on a new ride til the wearhter warms, but Fishing Rhino I may seek your expertise on that rod rack....
Anytime. I'm not that far from you, and I'm semi retired. In Westport, right on the RI border in southeastern Mass.
If you want to get a closeup look at it, or a bit of help, I'll be more than glad to assist in anyway I can.
I've got a good sized garage/shop, 34 X 34, and all the light tools needed to handle small and medium sized projects.
When you're ready, you can email through my profile on the forum.
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